The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Once you plant your flag, it's unbelievably hard to unplant it. This is not a new thing, it's a well documented (though poorly understood) psychological phenomenon, and it happens to all of us.

We've had a front row seat to a President who excels at this. To the tune of 230K+ dead, in one particular instance of "planting the flag."

[miked]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

You may wish to consider my post two and a half hours prior to this one, in which I said this:



There are a number of things society doesn't consider violent which also involve threats of force not actual force itself. This leaves in a position where I don't understand what violence actually means in modern society, since we certainly aren't following the definition of the word. Nonetheless, I was clearly wrong; this situation must be considered an act of violence in light of molson's excellent points. The underlying point about how much violence is likely to occur post-election still stands.

More fundamentally even, people can simply have differences of perspective and opinion, including those that seem ridiculous to you, me, or the neighborhoood muse. None of these necessarily mean that someone is trying to play semantic games or aren't expressing themselves in good faith or are implying others are idiots. It just means they see a situation differently, and only that.

Newsflash, the threat of violence is indeed violence. I think you need to consider the possible outcomes. Wave guns and try to run somebody off the road, there are many possible pathways to death and/or serious injury. I'm shocked you are brave enough to admit on a public message board that attempting to run somebody off the road with weapons flashing is not a violent act. Maybe this is why people feel emboldened to do these things, because they have bothsiderists telling them it's not that big a deal.

This.behavior.is.not.ok. Attempting to run people off the road for campaigning is a sickness.

On a side note, there were idiots on I-75 yesterday with Trump flags draped all over their cars speeding up and slowing down while weaving in and out of traffic. I'm not really sure what they were trying to accomplish, but it could have ended badly for them or innocent people on the highway.

[whomario]

Twitter

Just signed an order to establish the 1776 Commission. We will stop the radical indoctrination of our students, and restore PATRIOTIC EDUCATION to our schools!

There will be so much scorched Earth, Biden won't be able to do anything but fix the most blatant BS for a year.

And if anybody can't see the hypocricy of calling sth installed by educational institutions "Indoctrination" and the turning around and then doing this i don't know what to say to that person.

[GrantDawg]

Finally, truth from a Trumper!

Welp.

Looks like Candace Owens flubbed her talking point.

Owens: "You are either on the side of mob rule or you are on the side of law and order. And I am on the side of mob rule. Tomorrow, I'll be casting my ballot for Donald J. Trump."

Tucker: "Amen. Nicely put." pic.twitter.com/9n1TnBtRTZ

— Justin Baragona (@justinbaragona) November 3, 2020

[wustin]

fox viewers don't know what the word mob means so it's okay

[JediKooter]

trumplethinskin promised he would never visit Michigan if he loses today, I hope he extends that promise to California as well.

[spleen1015]

I hope he makes that promise to America.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

trumplethinskin promised he would never visit Michigan if he loses today, I hope he extends that promise to California as well.

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I hope he makes that promise to America.

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1307491919384260609

SI

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I hope he makes that promise to America.

Now that would be one policy decision of his that I would fully support.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1307491919384260609

SI

Uncle Joe swooping in with the zinger!

[Ksyrup]

HAHAHA!

No bigger boat. pic.twitter.com/SiKSzffjqu

— Brad. (@bradmiska) November 3, 2020

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

HAHAHA!

No bigger boat. pic.twitter.com/SiKSzffjqu

— Brad. (@bradmiska) November 3, 2020

Oh man that is fantastic!

[kingfc22]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN27J0G0

Interesting if accurate.

" Deutsche Bank AG is looking for ways to end its relationship with President Donald Trump after the U.S. elections, as it tires of the negative publicity stemming from the ties, according to three senior bank officials with direct knowledge of the matter."

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by miked

I'm shocked you are brave enough to admit on a public message board that attempting to run somebody off the road with weapons flashing is not a violent act. Maybe this is why people feel emboldened to do these things, because they have bothsiderists telling them it's not that big a deal.

This.behavior.is.not.ok. Attempting to run people off the road for campaigning is a sickness.

I don't think there's anything appreciably brave about expressing opinions on a message board. I'd say in fact that one pays a bigger price for withholding what they think due to fear of the reaction of others.

But more on point, I was explicit multiple times that I wasn't bothsidering, it was a big deal, the behavior isn't close to ok, etc. We seem to be in this strange situation where if something considered objectionable or ridiculous is said, it doesn't matter at all what else they said, we can just assume the worst (while quoting contrary statements they made even). Certainly my flaws as a poster might have some to do with this, but not much IMO given that I've seen this treatment handed out to others as well.

This has all pushed me past a tipping point; I don't think there is any point in me posting contrary opinions around here for the most part anymore. An increasing number of posters I respect have flatly stated they aren't interested in engaging opinions from people who don't share their core assumptions. I come here to have those assumptions challenged and to learn from people who think differently than I do; it's probably best that I find another place to do that, since it's not what a large proportion of the posters here appear to value.

[Butter]

If I was getting called out on ridiculous stuff I said constantly, I'd want to leave too

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I don't think there's anything appreciably brave about expressing opinions on a message board. I'd say in fact that one pays a bigger price for withholding what they think due to fear of the reaction of others.

But more on point, I was explicit multiple times that I wasn't bothsidering, it was a big deal, the behavior isn't close to ok, etc. We seem to be in this strange situation where if something considered objectionable or ridiculous is said, it doesn't matter at all what else they said, we can just assume the worst (while quoting contrary statements they made even). Certainly my flaws as a poster might have some to do with this, but not much IMO given that I've seen this treatment handed out to others as well.

This has all pushed me past a tipping point; I don't think there is any point in me posting contrary opinions around here for the most part anymore. An increasing number of posters I respect have flatly stated they aren't interested in engaging opinions from people who don't share their core assumptions. I come here to have those assumptions challenged and to learn from people who think differently than I do; it's probably best that I find another place to do that, since it's not what a large proportion of the posters here appear to value.

I don't want to come off like a dick, because I value a lot of what you post, but you may get a better response if you aren't constantly trying to come across as the smartest guy in the room. (and yes, I know a lot of you already think I am a dick)

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Butter

If I was getting called out on ridiculous stuff I said constantly, I'd want to leave too

That's ridiculous! I'm calling you out!

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lathum

you may get a better response if you aren't constantly trying to come across as the smartest guy in the room. (and yes, I know a lot of you already think I am a dick)

For the most part I don't get this - and relative to the last statement, I don't think you are.

I have admitted multiple times when I've been convinced by someone's argument that I've been wrong. I have often made reference to good points others have made, or explicitly complimented their intelligence, etc. From my perspective, I'm not sure it's possible for me to go much further in that direction without sacrificing honesty and straightforwardness in what I say.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

This has all pushed me past a tipping point; I don't think there is any point in me posting contrary opinions around here for the most part anymore. An increasing number of posters I respect have flatly stated they aren't interested in engaging opinions from people who don't share their core assumptions. I come here to have those assumptions challenged and to learn from people who think differently than I do; it's probably best that I find another place to do that, since it's not what a large proportion of the posters here appear to value.

FWIW, I think there are plenty of moderate left/right willing to engage in a conversation. For the others, just ignore them and they'll ignore you.

[AlexB]

TBH this board reminds me more and more of the old Emo Phillips joke, to the point where I regularly just don’t post rather than spend the next ten posts ‘justifying’ what is usually largely in agreement with those piling on...

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

[AlexB]

Dola, to emphasise the point, this is the third or fourth time I’ve thought about posting this, but the first time I have.

Largely as although I don’t agree always with Brian, I think he gets a unfair reaction to a lot of his posts, and it would be a shame to see him leave

[Warhammer]

It is why I rarely post anymore.

But its just a microcosm of the US. We agree on a good many things, whether right or left, but you go a smidge outside of the norm and you are vilified.

[thesloppy]

The internet is just a lousy & frutrating communication medium. It's super easy to generate some kind of primal anger/offense & practically impossible to get the opposite kind of positive emotional response.

[PilotMan]

Brian certainly makes me think. I disagree and get frustrated as hell with his rigid viewpoints, but he does make me consider my own points of view and challenge myself. Edward can, at times do that, but that they are willing to engage in conversation is a good thing.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Brian certainly makes me think. I disagree and get frustrated as hell with his rigid viewpoints, but he does make me consider my own points of view and challenge myself. Edward can, at times do that, but that they are willing to engage in conversation is a good thing.

+1

I post in these threads less than I used to, but I hope you keep posting too Brian!

[Butter]

I just wanted to apologize for being over the top critical specifically of Brian in the last couple of pages. Was being an edgy jerk and even I though I do disagree, didn't need to go full pit bull

[Front Office Midget]

No masks being worn by poll workers in at least one rural Minnesota township.

Voter suppression?

[kingfc22]

Trump now at -330 odds

[Brian Swartz]

Thanks for all your thoughts. I'm not leaving completely, I just don't plan on arguing nearly as much, reading more, asking questions more. I appreciate what Butter said as well - people being critical of my opinions though doesn't bother me that much. I wouldn't be here if it did - clearly someone of my persuasions doesn't post on this forum for the purpose of validation .

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Brian certainly makes me think. I disagree and get frustrated as hell with his rigid viewpoints, but he does make me consider my own points of view and challenge myself. Edward can, at times do that, but that they are willing to engage in conversation is a good thing.

Thanks for mentioning me.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Thanks for all your thoughts. I'm not leaving completely, I just don't plan on arguing nearly as much, reading more, asking questions more. I appreciate what Butter said as well - people being critical of my opinions though doesn't bother me that much. I wouldn't be here if it did - clearly someone of my persuasions doesn't post on this forum for the purpose of validation .

You see? There are moderates (or at least non-radical leftists) on this board willing to engage in a discussion, accept that honest people can have honest differences of opinion!

[spleen1015]

Saw this somewhere...

Trump loses and in these last 3 months he kicks Pence to the curb, appoints Ivanka VP and resigns to make her POTUS so that as a family they can capitalize on her being the first woman POTUS.

[Atocep]

I think there's a lot on the table and there's probably a 50/50 chance he does something to get a pardon on the way out the door.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Saw this somewhere...

Trump loses and in these last 3 months he kicks Pence to the curb, appoints Ivanka VP and resigns to make her POTUS so that as a family they can capitalize on her being the first woman POTUS.

He can't fire the VP.

[albionmoonlight]

I don't think that it is likely, but I could see a world where he has just enough of a frivolous lawsuit claim that he agrees to drop it and step down in exchange for immunity from all state and federal prosecution for him and his kids. I don't think that it could be an enforceable agreement. But if you got Biden agreeing, there'd be a ton of pressure on, say, New York State to publicly agree as well.

[Vegas Vic]

I probably won't get much agreement here, but I think a lot of republican senators are secretly delighted that Biden is going to become President. In many ways, they'll have a better relationship with Biden than they did with Trump.

[spleen1015]

I think it is a safe assumption that many of them will be glad to not have to pander and support that POS anymore.

Someone else said earlier. They still have the Senate and the SCOTUS. They're happy.

[sterlingice]

Mitch got everything he wanted last night

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Yup.

What did Trump give them?

Great turnout in Presidential election years and motivated Dems during the mid-terms.

And, if the GOP lost the Senate, Trump could have prevented things like reforming the Courts, House, etc.

And, of course, he gave them judges and justices.

They no longer need him for any of those things.

They can't throw him to the curb too hard, but I think that they think that they are better off being in opposition right now than continuing to take the blame for things.

[Ben E Lou]

Absolutely. Being the last line of defense against the Dem President is a much better look than having to defend Trump.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

I probably won't get much agreement here, but I think a lot of republican senators are secretly delighted that Biden is going to become President. In many ways, they'll have a better relationship with Biden than they did with Trump.

I think you will get a lot of agreement on that. They know what Trump is and will be glad he is gone.

[Atocep]

Agree. This is McConnell's dream scenario.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

I probably won't get much agreement here, but I think a lot of republican senators are secretly delighted that Biden is going to become President. In many ways, they'll have a better relationship with Biden than they did with Trump.

I don't think you will get much disagreement at all. I think you would get much more push back if you had said the opposite. This is the problem many on the left had with Biden and with Democrats in general. When the Democrats have power, they have to listen and cooperate with Republicans. When Republicans are in power, they are not expected to listen to the other side because that is what the people voted for.

[Atocep]

He's going to find out quickly how little support he has from congress and GOP members with any political ambition. Scott Walker has already said unless the numbers change drastically in the remaining votes a recount is pointless.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Yup.

What did Trump give them?

Great turnout in Presidential election years and motivated Dems during the mid-terms.

And, if the GOP lost the Senate, Trump could have prevented things like reforming the Courts, House, etc.

And, of course, he gave them judges and justices.

They no longer need him for any of those things.

They can't throw him to the curb too hard, but I think that they think that they are better off being in opposition right now than continuing to take the blame for things.

Voting demographics aren't complete yet but one more key thing Trump gave the GOP, momentum of the FL hispanic vote (and possibly in other states also).

[Edward64]

Only 66.9% turnout estimated.

What the heck would take people to come out and vote? I'd like to know the post mortem polling on why people did not vote.

Estimate shows record voter turnout in 2020 presidential election - Vox

The early voter turnout rate for the 2020 election reached a record high, and it looks like total turnout may set a record as well — at least for the past 120 years.

More than 160 million people may have voted in this presidential election, according to a preliminary estimate by University of Florida professor Michael McDonald, who runs the nonpartisan elections data website US Elections Project. That would mean 66.9 percent of the voting-eligible population turned out in this election — the highest rate since 1900, when 73.7 percent of the population turned out to vote. Earlier, McDonald had predicted that 150 million people, or 65 percent of the voting-eligible population, would turn out this election.

Such high turnout is especially impressive given that it happened during a pandemic, which left many wary of going to the polls. But states expanded voting options, and many Americans used mail-in ballots to cast their vote.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Only 66.9% turnout estimated.

What the heck would take people to come out and vote? I'd like to know the post mortem polling on why people did not vote.

Estimate shows record voter turnout in 2020 presidential election - Vox

The very next sentence that you didn't bold said this" the highest rate since 1900, when 73.7 percent of the population turned out to vote".

Not sure what your expectations are, but anything above 60% should be considered solid turnout. Especially during a pandemic.

The last election to go over 60% was 1968.

[Brian Swartz]

Exactly. 67% is an extremely high number by any relevant comparative measure.

Some people don't care enough to bother. Some think there's no meaningful difference between the candidates, they're all corrupt, doesn't matter what clown's in there, etc. Some think that by voting, they're validating a system that is against them. There are all manner of reasons.

Can't say I've ever heard one that convinced me it was a good reason, but there are lots of bad ones. .

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

I probably won't get much agreement here, but I think a lot of republican senators are secretly delighted that Biden is going to become President. In many ways, they'll have a better relationship with Biden than they did with Trump.

What kept them from throwing him out when they had the chance to impeach Trump?
Or am I disinformed and it wasn't up to them?

[Brian Swartz]

Their constituents?