Console Discussion/E3/Tokyo Game Show Thread

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Latest chart of worldwide console sales. Will be interesting to see what happens this holiday season to these trends.

[CU Tiger]

So PS 3 outsold 360 over the entire life cycle?

Suspicious data is suspicious.

[CraigSca]

And to quote Mizzou B-Ball fan himself, "That's just shipments! It's sales that are important!"*

* - which I believe is most important as well, but that's neither here nor there

[heybrad]

Having just recently got both consoles (see my contest winner post earlier in the thread), the PS4 is already on the verge of becoming a doorstop. I'm kinda blown away at how underwhelming it is.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

So PS 3 outsold 360 over the entire life cycle?

Suspicious data is suspicious.

It's worldwide, so maybe? Didn't Microsoft ship about 4 consoles to Japan?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

So PS 3 outsold 360 over the entire life cycle?

Suspicious data is suspicious.

I'm surprised you dispute that. The 360 did well on this side of the pond, but it was crushed overseas. It would have been worse had they not had all the additional sales from RROD console owners who's warranty expired.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It would have been worse had they not had all the additional sales from RROD console owners who's warranty expired.

Wasn't there a yellow light on the PS3 that Sony had problems with?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Wasn't there a yellow light on the PS3 that Sony had problems with?

Yes, but it wasn't as big of a problem as the RROD. The RROD actual failure rate was somewhere between shocking and jaw-dropping. In this widely circulated report, the Xbox 360 failure rate was reported as being 5 times the number of failures as the PS3.

Xbox 360 Failure Rate is 54.2 Percent, Game Informer Finds – Consumerist

[CU Tiger]

hard empirical data there.


I heard Sony's problems were between crippling and bankrupting.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

hard empirical data there.

I heard Sony's problems were between crippling and bankrupting.

There's plenty of reports that place the failure rate around the 50% range much like the link I posted. I'm not sure what information you're using to refute the claim, but it's clear it was ridiculous and much higher than the PS3.

[Groundhog]

For 3 brand new 360 consoles, my failure rate, over a period of 6-9 months per console, was 100%.

I've gone through one PS4 so far due to the faulty power button that continually reset the console.

[RainMaker]

The most reliable survey comes from the company that actually provided the warranty for the devices.

https://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/...ility_0809.pdf

XBox 360 - 23.7%
PS3 - 10%
Wii - 2.7%

XBox 360 did get played the most out of all the consoles so that factors in to failure rate a bit. This was from the first few years of the console cycle and I think both Microsoft and Sony fixed early issues. Still embarrassing for any console to be over 5%.

[RainMaker]

Also from what Microsoft gained on sales from failure they also probably lost some by having a longer warranty.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The most reliable survey comes from the company that actually provided the warranty for the devices.

https://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/...ility_0809.pdf

XBox 360 - 23.7%
PS3 - 10%
Wii - 2.7%

XBox 360 did get played the most out of all the consoles so that factors in to failure rate a bit. This was from the first few years of the console cycle and I think both Microsoft and Sony fixed early issues. Still embarrassing for any console to be over 5%.

Depends on what you mean by fix. Didn't Microsoft fix the red ring by making the light a different color?

hxxp://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/microsoft-fixes-xbox-rrod-by-removing-the-red-light-697196

I know that some later models were more reliable, but I don't they ever actually got what one would call good until they came out with the shiny console. I remember buying a spare on the second hand market and going by the manufacture date to determine what was inside and how reliable it was going to be.

I actually had good luck that way. I ended up buying something like 5 360's to one PS3, but like others have said I played much more of my 360. I did play the 360 in two locations compared to my PS3 which I only used extremely occasionally and only for exclusives.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Depends on what you mean by fix. Didn't Microsoft fix the red ring by making the light a different color?

hxxp://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/microsoft-fixes-xbox-rrod-by-removing-the-red-light-697196

I know that some later models were more reliable, but I don't they ever actually got what one would call good until they came out with the shiny console. I remember buying a spare on the second hand market and going by the manufacture date to determine what was inside and how reliable it was going to be.

I actually had good luck that way. I ended up buying something like 5 360's to one PS3, but like others have said I played much more of my 360. I did play the 360 in two locations compared to my PS3 which I only used extremely occasionally and only for exclusives.

The Jasper motherboard fixed the RROD. Think it dropped their failure rate down to like 4%. And those failures were mostly the optical drive.

They did change how the error messages were shown but the issue that caused RROD was more or less eliminated after the hardware change.

[CU Tiger]

I've purchased 3 XBOX 360s.
All still work.
7-8 years later.

[MizzouRah]

Both of my x360's still work.

Whenever I hear the words shocking and jaw-dropping, I know there is a troll around.

Next up, the Sony ps4 cured cancer.

[HomerSimpson98]

lol

[RainMaker]

Both companies suck. They sell flawed hardware and are as anti-consumer as you can get.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Both of my x360's still work.

Whenever I hear the words shocking and jaw-dropping, I know there is a troll around.

Next up, the Sony ps4 cured cancer.

1. According to the graph you drew (surprised you used crayons), cancer increased, not decreased. St. Louis school systems at it's finest.

2. 'Shocking' and 'jaw-dropping' are precisely the words that should be used. Even if we take the conservative number, it's a ridiculous failure rate. Kudos to MS that they covered it up as well as they did. If those numbers had got out any sooner, they would have done far worse than barely losing the last generation.

[jeff061]

99.5%.

The percentage of people who are only aware of RROD because of PS4 troll face hole.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

1. According to the graph you drew (surprised you used crayons), cancer increased, not decreased. St. Louis school systems at it's finest.

2. 'Shocking' and 'jaw-dropping' are precisely the words that should be used. Even if we take the conservative number, it's a ridiculous failure rate. Kudos to MS that they covered it up as well as they did. If those numbers had got out any sooner, they would have done far worse than barely losing the last generation.

1. It increased until the ps4 zapped it! I also heard the ps4 can mow your lawn.. please test that for me. Oh, and what's wrong with crayons? Also, I went to school in St. Charles, not St. Louis.

2. I had one RROD and used the towel method and it's never come back. That was our first x360 and it's our nextflex machine for our youngest daughter. We have another one we use for gaming and have never had an issue. To me, jaw-dropping would be finding out the Rams were staying in St. Louis or the Blues winning a stanley cup or Mizzou basketball being relevant again, to each his own I guess.

[Mota]

Reading this thread every day makes me like Xbox One more and more, and dislike PS4. I hope that's your goal, MBBF.

[Groundhog]

Yeah, MBBF has done a lot to erase the bad blood I have with Microsoft after all my xbox 360 RRoDs. I feel like I need to buy one just to spite him.

I don't know why anyone would feel the need to be a voluntary corporate shrill for a mega-corporation like Sony, but hey, I don't understand Apple/Android fanboyism either.

Both consoles are pieces of very similar tech used to play games - usually the very same games. If you prefer one over the other, good for you. This isn't like Nintendo vs. Sony/Microsoft where there is a clear difference in concept and target audience. You can have a good conversation there. This is more like AMD vs Intel, ie. wake me when it's over.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Mota

Reading this thread every day makes me like Xbox One more and more, and dislike PS4. I hope that's your goal, MBBF.

It's no different than sports. People like to root for the underdog. I can certainly understand that sentiment.

[jeff061]

So you are rooting for a marketing departments and sales execs? Do you send congratulations messages when your favorite employees cash a commission check?

[CraigSca]

Yeah, i don't get that at all. I was born and raised in the Baltimore area. I root for Baltimore sports teams and Maryland. I don't get the connection between a Missouri-based person and a Japanese-based company. Hurray!

I mean, who goes on a message board hyping up Exxon and crapping all over Shell Oil?

[Kodos]

I read that Japan has lower birth rates because everyone is playing their PS4.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I read that Japan has lower birth rates because everyone is playing their PS4.

You'd only have to see the sales figures in Japan to know that's a false statement. PS4 isn't selling nearly as well over there. It's main base is NA and Europe now.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It's no different than sports. People like to root for the underdog. I can certainly understand that sentiment.

I honestly, truly think you are the only person in this thread rooting for anything. The rest of the folks just read here for news or announcements or things they missed. I never once thought about favoring either brand until this thread and your exorbitant fan boyism has made me hate all things Sony. And thats a huge statement from a guy who used to own a company that was Sony's #1 independent AV dealer in the country 3 separate times. Sony has LITERALLY made me millions of dollars in my career and I cringe when I read their name anywhere simply because of your attitude in this thread.

I am sure that a me problem, but its not a me exclusive problem.

This reminds me of the rednecks who get bud lite or skoal tatoos. I get that you like the product but taking it to the point where it defines your self worth and hapiness is a bit excessive.

[lighthousekeeper]

TIL CU Tiger's a millionaire

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I get that you like the product but taking it to the point where it defines your self worth and hapiness is a bit excessive.

That could not be further from the truth, but you have a right to your perception.

[heybrad]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That could not be further from the truth, but you have a right to your perception.

But... you have compared this now to sports which I take as you've attached yourself to the winner and you've stated above you think everyone else is rooting for the underdog. To take it back to sports, are you suggesting the Royals don't contribute to your happiness? It would appear that Sony fits that for you as well.

I'm not trying to troll here. I'm just genuinely curious because this is probably the most fascinating thread as it relates to human behavior that I've ever seen on the web.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by heybrad

But... you have compared this now to sports which I take as you've attached yourself to the winner and you've stated above you think everyone else is rooting for the underdog. To take it back to sports, are you suggesting the Royals don't contribute to your happiness? It would appear that Sony fits that for you as well.

I'm not trying to troll here. I'm just genuinely curious because this is probably the most fascinating thread as it relates to human behavior that I've ever seen on the web.

I'd agree with your last comment. This thread was created so we could discuss console banter outside of the video game thread so people wouldn't have to read about that kind of stuff if they didn't want to do so. The amusing part is that those same people seemed to have done just the opposite. It's amazing that the same people who were glad to no longer have the conversation over there are now regularly posting over here. Those reactions alone could fill a college paper on human behavior.

The Royals definitely contribute to my happiness. Sony does by the fact that I enjoy all their gaming products, but I don't derive any happiness from their success (nor feel sad that they weren't doing well last generation despite enjoying the PS3). As I've stated multiple times, I love the business aspect of the console war and find it fascinating. That's why I like to discuss it.

[jeff061]

It's amazing that the same people who were glad to no longer have the conversation over there are now regularly posting over here. Those reactions alone could fill a college paper on human behavior.

I don't think we need a college paper explaining the desire to and effects of "Feeding the troll".

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

TIL CU Tiger's a millionaire

Distinct difference between earning a million dollars over multiple years and being a millionaire.

Income does not equal net worth.

[Kodos]

If you don't spend it might!

[Julio Riddols]

My take on the console wars is a different one. I don't see it as a war. I see it as competition, which is ultimately good for gaming. I think all 3 major companies put out strong products, but I feel like the pricing of them has kind of gotten out of hand. I used to be able to afford a console pretty close to launch, now I have to wait 3 or 4 years into a cycle to pick one up. It is beneficial to me in many ways.. I get a better, streamlined, more reliable product thanks to modifications made to address issues that pop up early in a console's life span, and I get immediate access to cheap games that I know are good because there are enough reviews and game play videos out there to inform my purchases.

I may not get to enjoy the newness with everyone else, but I am not much of a MP guy when it comes to console games anyway, so I don't miss it. I've recently begun migrating to PC for a lot of my gaming, but I will still be picking up a next gen console when the time comes that I can afford it (299 is pretty close to my price point) And when I do that, it will be a PS 4. Not because of anything anyone says, but because the exclusive games I want to play most are on that system. If there is one thing I wish the gaming industry didn't do as much, it would be exclusivity deals.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

If there is one thing I wish the gaming industry didn't do as much, it would be exclusivity deals.

I agree with this. I own a PS4 simply because of the Sony exclusives of last gen. So far this gen Sony has been riding the coat tails of what they did with the PS3 exclusive wise. They need to kick it up a notch as my consoles have largely become a paper weight. I wish they would just come together and make a single console device where we could play Halo, Uncharted, Mario, and Crusader Kings. Doubt that will happen anytime soon.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

My take on the console wars is a different one. I don't see it as a war. I see it as competition, which is ultimately good for gaming. I think all 3 major companies put out strong products, but I feel like the pricing of them has kind of gotten out of hand. I used to be able to afford a console pretty close to launch, now I have to wait 3 or 4 years into a cycle to pick one up. It is beneficial to me in many ways.. I get a better, streamlined, more reliable product thanks to modifications made to address issues that pop up early in a console's life span, and I get immediate access to cheap games that I know are good because there are enough reviews and game play videos out there to inform my purchases.

I may not get to enjoy the newness with everyone else, but I am not much of a MP guy when it comes to console games anyway, so I don't miss it. I've recently begun migrating to PC for a lot of my gaming, but I will still be picking up a next gen console when the time comes that I can afford it (299 is pretty close to my price point) And when I do that, it will be a PS 4. Not because of anything anyone says, but because the exclusive games I want to play most are on that system. If there is one thing I wish the gaming industry didn't do as much, it would be exclusivity deals.

It's kind of a give and take. You're correct that the prices aren't coming down as quick as they used to do so. With that said, it appears the generations are also lengthening and, as a result, you're getting a lot more bang for your buck whether you come in at the start or you wait for a few years. It seems like they're looking to keep these consoles at a ten year cycle much like the last round of consoles. So I don't think the price is nearly as bad as when they were switching out consoles every 4-5 years.

[Fidatelo]

I actually agree with MBBF on the pricing. And it should be noted that when you factor in inflation the prices haven't jumped nearly as much as you'd think. I remember paying $200 for my NES as a kid. Lets assume that was 1987-ish. According to this link, that's equivalent to $425 today.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It's kind of a give and take. You're correct that the prices aren't coming down as quick as they used to do so. With that said, it appears the generations are also lengthening and, as a result, you're getting a lot more bang for your buck whether you come in at the start or you wait for a few years. It seems like they're looking to keep these consoles at a ten year cycle much like the last round of consoles. So I don't think the price is nearly as bad as when they were switching out consoles every 4-5 years.

Bang for your buck? You'll be paying $60 a game and $50 a year to play video games on a piece of hardware that's a decade behind the times. Consoles are nice for convenience but you aren't getting any "bang for your buck" out of it's hardware. Especially when there is little chance these consoles hold up for the full cycle.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I see it as competition, which is ultimately good for gaming.

It's an artificial competition though. Sony and MS sell nearly identical products. Their hardware and software essentially do the same things.

The only competition there is comes in the form of "exclusives". A manufactured competition that is anti-consumer and goes against what a console should be. Consoles should be built to support games, not the other way around. You have no backwards compatibility effectively eliminating generations of games. You have a difficult development environment and closed system for distribution limiting who can develop (or mod games).

To put it into perspective, this would be akin to each brand of TV having "exclusives". So Game of Thrones could only play on a Panasonic TV and so forth. TV shows over 5 years old couldn't be watched. Each brand would require a special camera and editing tools to work for them. And the TV manufacturer would have final say on what is and isn't allowed to be seen on their TV.

It's a backwards ass industry that is the antithesis of competition.

And for the record I do own a next gen console. I like playing games with friends who have it and it does double as a device I can use to watch Netflix and HBO.

[Julio Riddols]

All I am saying is if there was only one console on the market, the price would still be 500 plus.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

To put it into perspective, this would be akin to each brand of TV having "exclusives". So Game of Thrones could only play on a Panasonic TV and so forth. TV shows over 5 years old couldn't be watched. Each brand would require a special camera and editing tools to work for them. And the TV manufacturer would have final say on what is and isn't allowed to be seen on their TV.

Which is exactly the model we're moving to. Not the TV, but the service (Netflix vs. Roku vs. whatever).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Bang for your buck? You'll be paying $60 a game and $50 a year to play video games on a piece of hardware that's a decade behind the times. Consoles are nice for convenience but you aren't getting any "bang for your buck" out of it's hardware. Especially when there is little chance these consoles hold up for the full cycle.

I hate to tell you this, but this is happening currently so it's not a fallacy at all. The PS3 and 360 user base is as big as the next gen base right now, now nine and ten years after their release respectively. I'd argue that people that bought those consoles early on got an amazing bang for their buck and the games coming out over the last year or two may not be cutting edge, but they're still excellent gaming experiences and very enjoyable to use.

[jeff061]

Games coming out the last 7 years or so may not be cutting edge

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Games coming out the last 7 years or so may not be cutting edge

Do they have to be? They're never going to catch up with the latest and greatest PC just because that line is constantly shifting, but if you play FIFA for example on the PS3/360 today, I don't think you're getting an inferior, unplayable product. You're still getting a very good game with a lot of feature content. In the case of EA, you're often getting more features than the next gen equivalent honestly.

[jeff061]

No, they don't have to be, but this was a discussion of value and console games cost significantly more than PC games(unless you are buying day 1) despite being years behind the curve.

My point is, there is no "bang for your buck" ideal that you were trying to espouse. You pay more and you get less.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by jeff061

No, they don't have to be, but this was a discussion of value and console games cost significantly more than PC games(unless you are buying day 1) despite being years behind the curve.

My point is, there is no "bang for your buck" ideal that you were trying to espouse. You pay more and you get less.

You pay more if you buy it Day 1. Most people that own a console aren't Day 1 purchasers. Most of them buy for half that price, if not cheaper. I'd argue that the majority of gamers are like me. It's an older demographic to be sure, but one that often doesn't have time to get on a game right when it's released. I usually buy even the AAA games 6-12 months after release. I even look to get GOTY games 6 months after they release, where I get all the content of the best games for $20-30.

Bang for your buck has little to do with a comparison of game prices. I'm paying $400 for a console that lasts me 8-10 years. PC owners are going to be upgrading every 4 years. Also, I love the fact that I don't have all the issues that come with PC releases. I just pop it in and play.