The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

We don't elect or judge Presidents based on how they act when things are going well. The whole point is how do you respond in a crisis.

Bush didn't cause 9/11 or the Great Recession. But we judge him based on how he responded to them.

Carter didn't cause the Iranian hostage crisis, but we judge him based on how he responded to it.

Etc.

I don't think this is true at all. We elect Presidents, in terms of modern American history, primarily based on how the economy is doing at the time. Doesn't have nearly as much to do with how they react to those changes, but merely who is in charge at the time. This it the main reason why Clinton was as popular as he was, why Obama got crushed in his first midterms but was easily re-elected as the economy improved, why Bush the Elder lost to Clinton, etc. Crisis management matters as well but there often isn't an actual crisis and what people typically want is the problem fixed, whether that's realistic or not; again see Obama and the 'fierce urgency of now'.

I don't think this is right and presidents do have relatively little to do with the economy IMO, but I think the data is pretty clear that in good economic times you stay in power, in bad economic times you are vulnerable, and it matters very little what you actually did to cause/ruin that scenario.

[Lathum]

[Edward64]

McConnell's comments for Cheney (positive) and Greene (negative) is interesting. Hoping this makes the impeachment trial interesting but still don't think there's enough votes.

[Edward64]

Not sure "wasn't honest or trustworthy" was really that major of a factor but I do think his "handling of the coronavirus pandemic" was the clincher (it was for my wife).

Trump pollster's campaign autopsy paints damning picture of defeat - POLITICO

The post-mortem, a copy of which was obtained by POLITICO, says the former president suffered from voter perception that he wasn’t honest or trustworthy and that he was crushed by disapproval of his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. And while Trump spread baseless accusations of ballot-stuffing in heavily Black cities, the report notes that he was done in by hemorrhaging support from white voters.

[Ghost Econ]

So, not totally Trump related, but I was perusing Ollie North's website through some deep twitter rabbit hole.

However, who do see prominently on the homepage? Our very own Cam Edwards. Man, I can't imagine how weird these threads would have been if he still hung around.

[Kodos]

You must be a rebranded poster?

[JPhillips]

Cam's still too right-wing and too gun nut for me, but he's been going through some tough times with his wife's cancer.

I always found him to be a thoughtful guy, but I was disappointed that he went to NRA radio and for a while sounded like any other right-wing radio guy.

[albionmoonlight]

I just looked him up. He's got an epic long beard going on.

Didn't realize his wife had cancer. That sucks.

Fuck that horrible disease.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I always found him to be a thoughtful guy, but I was disappointed that he went to NRA radio and for a while sounded like any other right-wing radio guy.

It seems to happen on both the right and the left. A thoughtful original voice rises up high enough in the media ecosystem and ends up becoming Generic Commentator Number 235. You see it with local sports guys who make it national, too.

I guess when the producers are in your ear constantly telling you what gets eyeballs and clicks, you end up doing that instead of what got you there in the first place.

[Edward64]

Interesting article on the post-Biden confirmation days where a bunch of crazies and Trump believers got together with Trump to figure out what to do.

Too many fun passages to quote (really, you should read the entire article) but my favorite one is

Off the rails: Inside the craziest meeting of the Trump presidency - Axios

But Powell, fixing on Trump, continued to elaborate on a fantastical election narrative involving Venezuela, Iran, China and others. She named a county in Georgia where she claimed she could prove that Dominion had illegally flipped the vote.

Herschmann interrupted to point out that Trump had actually won the Georgia county in question: "So your theory is that Dominion intentionally flipped the votes so we could win that county?"

[BYU 14]

Wow

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Edward64

There are obviously winners & losers in any capitalistic society, no doubt. But we'll agree to disagree on how well the economy was doing in Jan 2020, prior to Covid hitting.

Trump's Numbers January 2020 Update - FactCheck.org

The only one of the numbers about Trump's three years that actually had anything to do with he did is the amount of golfing on Trump properties, because that was literally what he was doing when not tweeting or eating junk food. Once something that required actual leadership came up, he crashed and burned as most suspected would happen in 2015 when he trundled down the escalator.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Interesting article on the post-Biden confirmation days where a bunch of crazies and Trump believers got together with Trump to figure out what to do.

Too many fun passages to quote (really, you should read the entire article) but my favorite one is

Off the rails: Inside the craziest meeting of the Trump presidency - Axios

Great read. What a train-wreck.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

There are obviously winners & losers in any capitalistic society, no doubt. But we'll agree to disagree on how well the economy was doing in Jan 2020, prior to Covid hitting.

Trump's Numbers January 2020 Update - FactCheck.org

No doubt Hoover did a great job till that stock market crash in 1929.

[sterlingice]

Why are Carbon Dioxide Emissions +0.5% a good thing? Or an extra almost 2M without insurance?

SI

[JediKooter]

It also leaves out how much inflation rose during his tenure.

[ISiddiqui]

It does include the CPI (+6) and the rise in federal debt.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Lathum]

‘Q Shaman’ From Capitol Riot Hasn’t Eaten In Over A Week Because Jail Won’t Offer Organic Food, Lawyer Says

[NobodyHere]

I wish I could be so committed to a diet.

[Kodos]

It'd be a shame if he croaked.

[albionmoonlight]

The Poster’s Torment pic.twitter.com/FMNKx8SqdY

— henno (@jrhennessy) February 3, 2021

People are going to go to jail for this pathetic man.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Why are Carbon Dioxide Emissions +0.5% a good thing? Or an extra almost 2M without insurance?

SI

Unless I missed something, I don't think the list was intended to be all positives. Just a non- comprehensive list put together by... somebody.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

‘Q Shaman’ From Capitol Riot Hasn’t Eaten In Over A Week Because Jail Won’t Offer Organic Food, Lawyer Says

I didn't know basing a religion on your Baldurs Gate character was considered legit.

I guess if I ever go to jail I can request a paleo diet based on my Barbarian.

[Edward64]

George Conway in the news again with "the moral collapse of the Republican party".

I don't disagree but IMO the Conway family needs to stay out of the news and focus on therapy/help on their family dysfunction, especially the daughter.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...k-in-politics/

[GrantDawg]

They are reporting half the Republicans congressional caucus stood and applauded MTG when she spoke. She is the face of the Republican party. No longer conservative, only racist conspiracy theorist.

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[RainMaker]

Conway was leaking details about Clinton's penis to Drudge 20 years ago while working alongside a white supremacist. If there is a moral collapse of that party, he is part of it.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

People are going to go to jail for this pathetic man.

I cringe to think of what it is going to be like if/when Trump gets his twiiter back. People just can't help retweeting and reacting to his every tweet (much like they are doing with MTG). They think they are somehow hurting them, but really they just feed the beast.

[albionmoonlight]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...RL3QXALNWXZ2BQ

Basically, every former living President, except for Trump, took part in the National Prayer Breakfast.

This guy's entire life has been spent trying to belong to the most exclusive clubs. And he is voluntarily declining to participate in the most exclusive club of them all--the Ex Presidents--because he is so small and petty.

It is Shakespearian.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

NRA filed for bankruptcy today but says they will reform in Texas to get away from the "toxic political environment" in NY (and no doubt the State Attorney General of NY who is looking into a criminal case to defund them)

So a federal judge saw right through this, and let the NRA know that. So lawsuit from the AG in NY to shut them down completely back on the front burner.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I've been mostly staying out of this thread, but JFC, this is fucking insane.

Outgoing Kentucky Governor Matt Bevin Pardons Convicted Killer Whose Family Hosted Fundraiser For Him And Donated To His Campaign



https://www.kentucky.com/news/politi...#storylink=cpy

Yet justice is still served, and with an even longer sentence, thanks Bevin.

Pardoned Kentucky killer sentenced to 42 years in prison

[Ksyrup]

Yes, that was big news here, and was among a number of very controversial pardons Bevin handed out on his way out.

Bevin attempted to be what DeSantis is now - out-Trumping Trump at his own game. But he was such a despicably nasty person - often unprompted - that he gave himself so many self-inflicted wounds and ended up handing the state to a Democrat governor while the rest of the state went solid red. I'm glad he was such an asshole, because I couldn't imagine what Kentucky would look like with him handling Covid.

[NobodyHere]

I guess we should be glad that double jeopardy has a loophole?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I guess we should be glad that double jeopardy has a loophole?

Double jeopardy has never applied to different jurisdictions. For example, the officers in the Rodney King incident were acquitted in their state trial, but later convicted in a federal trial.

[NobodyHere]

Hence why I called it a loophole. The whole dual sovereignty principle violates the spirit of double jeopardy in my opinion. You're giving prosecutors more than one chance to prosecute a crime.

[RainMaker]

Committee just subponead some folks tied to this. Not sure what will come but at least someone is investigating the funding behind a terrorist attack since the FBI is sitting this out.

Alt-Right Groups and Personalities Involved In the January 2021 Capitol Riot Received Over $500K In Bitcoin From French Donor One Month Prior - Chainalysis

[Atocep]

It's funny that Trump likely thinks he stacked the Supreme Court for himself when it was Mitch pulling the strings.

The Supreme Court denies Trump's bid to block release of records to Jan. 6 panel : NPR

[Edward64]

Q is 2. I'm glad we've got "suspects". Hopefully MSM will start scrutinizing these 2 guys, come out with more stuff, and more will come out.

But bottom-line. Did these 2 do anything that they can be charged with? I'm guessing no.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/19/t...s-authors.html

Now two teams of forensic linguists say their analysis of the Q texts shows that Mr. Furber, one of the first online commentators to call attention to the earliest messages, actually played the lead role in writing them.

Sleuths hunting for the writer behind Q have increasingly overlooked Mr. Furber and focused their speculation on another QAnon booster: Ron Watkins, who operated a website where the Q messages began appearing in 2018 and is now running for Congress in Arizona. And the scientists say they found evidence to back up those suspicions as well. Mr. Watkins appears to have taken over from Mr. Furber at the beginning of 2018. Both deny writing as Q.

“At first most of the text is by Furber,” said Mr. Cafiero, who works at the French National Center for Scientific Research. “But the signature of Ron Watkins increased during the first few months as Paul Furber decreased and then dropped completely.”

[Brian Swartz]

Serious question: why does it matter who Q was/is? The problem is the number of people buying into it. The way to combat this kind of thing is to do a better job of inoculating society against nonsense, not to pretend that we're ever going to be able, in the internet age for goodness sake, to stamp out opportunistic people who spout conspiracist hogwash. Or ignore the great damage that will and to a degree already is being caused by trying.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Serious question: why does it matter who Q was/is? The problem is the number of people buying into it. The way to combat this kind of thing is to do a better job of inoculating society against nonsense, not to pretend that we're ever going to be able, in the internet age for goodness sake, to stamp out opportunistic people who spout conspiracist hogwash. Or ignore the great damage that will and to a degree already is being caused by trying.

In my field, I try to get to the root cause of any problem. Finding the genesis of anything is part of that analysis. But yeah, I think Q has taken a life on its own and those 2 are not as relevant in current day.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Serious question: why does it matter who Q was/is? The problem is the number of people buying into it. The way to combat this kind of thing is to do a better job of inoculating society against nonsense, not to pretend that we're ever going to be able, in the internet age for goodness sake, to stamp out opportunistic people who spout conspiracist hogwash. Or ignore the great damage that will and to a degree already is being caused by trying.

By showing who it is and how 'small' they are you hopefully take a brick out of the wall. They have portrayed Q as being an 'insider' in the top echelon of gov't and by showing with evidence that that couldn't be farther from the truth perhaps it gets added to the evidence and will eventually have a handful of people from killing others, themselves, destroying their lives or others etc along the way to finding out just how far the rabbit hole goes.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Serious question: why does it matter who Q was/is?

It matters because the followers insist it's something other than it really is. It's spawned a a vast array of extremists, who are the biggest threat to American democracy we currently face. It's grown beyond 'teaching' people to be better thinkers. You should understand that by now. Because education is for suckers. There's not a logical conversation that you can have with someone who has gone down the rabbit hole. They have been brainwashed, and their belief system can only be challenged by removing them from the system itself. So legitimately exposing the underlying creators, and all the bs that they have spewed over the years undercuts their financial stake (which is substantial) and undercuts the real dangerous people like Mike Flynn who have weaponized this belief into a power structure that is exploited by real people with power like trump. Q has gotten to the point now that it will morph into whatever the 'next big thing' is, but taking out the actors, and removing any sort of validation from the 'things' they believe in will limit it's spread.

[Brian Swartz]

It won't do any of that though and we know it. People who follow Q aren't following it because of the evidence - it isn't there. There is a pattern of hand-waving away anything that doesn't fit the narrative. That's what conspiracy theorists do. There's already a huge amount of evidence that they're wrong on so many points, and it just get dismissed. A little bit more in that direction doesn't accomplish anything. That's the point I was trying to make - instead, we need to get better at limiting the number of people susceptible to this kind of thing.

Originally Posted by PilotMan

It's grown beyond 'teaching' people to be better thinkers. You should understand that by now. Because education is for suckers. There's not a logical conversation that you can have with someone who has gone down the rabbit hole.

Right, but this seems to me to flatly contradict your idea that this actually matters. If this is true (and I agree that it is), then adding more fuel to that fire does no good. What we need is education and attitude adjustment *before* people go down the rabbit hole. I.e., prevent the problem from getting worse, cut off the source as much as possible, and then also be willing to engage the entrapped people - not for the sake of arguing them out of what they think, but because of the psychological positive impact that occurs when people are legitimately listened to.