WW XCIII - Mine Wars - Battle of Blair Mountain - SYMPATHIZERS WIN!!!

[Chief Rum]

Haven't said much yet of late, but just wanted to note I am more than a little annoyed at those responsible for voting out someone with at least a little vouching AND a stated role over a completely uncleared individual yesterday.

That was some rather poor decision making by a couple notable individuals, and possibly wolfish for the rest. I think we should look in that direction if we ever have to do another Oust.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

I find the questioning of Lathum interesting because I have noticed him just sitting back all game after he was cleared. I would think he would be more aggressive as a villager knowing he could get away with it.

I actually do not have a wolfy read on most those who are uncleared. From the way things went down, I do not feel PB or Clap are wolves and I think the wolves are sitting back hoping we keep on the same line of thinking. My next vote will likely be for Lathum because the way we're approaching things is not working.

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

The way we're approaching things, meaning looking at the uncleared players? That is rather self serving of you.

Originally Posted by Danny

Of course we need to be looking at the uncleared players, I've been going on that thought all week. We need to continue looking at uncleared players. By different, I think we also need to consider looking at those who are not on that list.

That's not a backtrack, c'mon man.

You: vote Lathum, we need to do things differently

BK: You mean look at cleared player? How convienient for you since you weren't cleared.

You: Shit, umm, I mean we need to look at everyone....


Danny slowly backs out of the room...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I am guessing that the EF killing was random.

I dunno, I said yesterday, the wolves are going to kill the most trusted people.

TheNorm
EF


see a pattern?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Haven't said much yet of late, but just wanted to note I am more than a little annoyed at those responsible for voting out someone with at least a little vouching AND a stated role over a completely uncleared individual yesterday.

That was some rather poor decision making by a couple notable individuals, and possibly wolfish for the rest. I think we should look in that direction if we ever have to do another Oust.

LOL

I agree, and the late movement was odd as well

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I am guessing that the EF killing was random.

I dont like random! makes me confused

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That's not a backtrack, c'mon man.

You: vote Lathum, we need to do things differently

BK: You mean look at cleared player? How convienient for you since you weren't cleared.

You: Shit, umm, I mean we need to look at everyone....


Danny slowly backs out of the room...

now we have some lathuming

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Haven't said much yet of late, but just wanted to note I am more than a little annoyed at those responsible for voting out someone with at least a little vouching AND a stated role over a completely uncleared individual yesterday.

That was some rather poor decision making by a couple notable individuals, and possibly wolfish for the rest. I think we should look in that direction if we ever have to do another Oust.

yeah.. I almost didnt switch myself, Im so confused, and it seems the little that is happening, is random... the only reason I did switch, was that I know im not a wolf, so no matter what I feel, there is a better chance he is a wolf than me

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

what don't you like about me? i'm saying i clearly can't blow things up anymore but it worries me that if i was bribed and converted maybe the wolves could still use the dynamite or something, so i'm proposing passing it back to BK or somebody else that the village decides is "trusted" if Abe won't just let me "drop it."

And I say you keep it. If something else blows up we know who to blame.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Haven't said much yet of late, but just wanted to note I am more than a little annoyed at those responsible for voting out someone with at least a little vouching AND a stated role over a completely uncleared individual yesterday.

That was some rather poor decision making by a couple notable individuals, and possibly wolfish for the rest. I think we should look in that direction if we ever have to do another Oust.

As explained at the time I missed/forgot his previous reveal. When he revealed I felt his role was similar enough to mine so as to be suspicious on its face.

[Lathum]

work hunting

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Poli

These events suck.

What he said.

Good luck village!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

And I say you keep it. If something else blows up we know who to blame.

fair enough - although i'd rather not take that chance

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Haven't said much yet of late, but just wanted to note I am more than a little annoyed at those responsible for voting out someone with at least a little vouching AND a stated role over a completely uncleared individual yesterday.

That was some rather poor decision making by a couple notable individuals, and possibly wolfish for the rest. I think we should look in that direction if we ever have to do another Oust.

USFL had no vouching and only really clarified his role a minute before deadline. He was not a bad lynch choice.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That's not a backtrack, c'mon man.

You: vote Lathum, we need to do things differently

BK: You mean look at cleared player? How convienient for you since you weren't cleared.

You: Shit, umm, I mean we need to look at everyone....


Danny slowly backs out of the room...

If that's what you want to think that's fine. I just think we shouldn't give every scanned person a pass just because they were scanned. Having no clue of the mechanics of bribing has made this very difficult.

[Danny]

And for that matter we don't even know if there is a cunning wolf

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

If that's what you want to think that's fine. I just think we shouldn't give every scanned person a pass just because they were scanned. Having no clue of the mechanics of bribing has made this very difficult.

I agree, but assuming EF was targeted do you really not see what the wolves are trying to do here?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I agree, but assuming EF was targeted do you really not see what the wolves are trying to do here?

Yeah, but was also don't even know if that was random or not (I'm guessing not, but we don't know for sure). I guess I am bothered because I don't really feel any of the uncleared players are likely to be wolves. I probably will come to my senses by the time we have another vote.

[Lathum]

Abe

was EF targeted or was his death random?

[Glengoyne]

Work Hunting

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

As explained at the time I missed/forgot his previous reveal. When he revealed I felt his role was similar enough to mine so as to be suspicious on its face.

You had enough time to switch back and you did not. Instead you tried to blame him for not explaining his role further sooner, IIRC.

It actually makes me wonder if it's possible to convert even "cleared" players with roles such as yourself via the bribe mechanism. I mean, it was that bad of a decision, and that poorly timed, that if it were anyone but you, I don't think there would have been any doubt about where a vote would go today.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Danny

My opinion is that DT is likely a villager. The wolves have so many advantages here that I can't see one of our players who actually has a useful ability starting as a wolf. As for being a convert, that I don't know.

I'm still fairly comfortable with my assertion that either DT or NTN are sympathizers.

All we really know about DT's "role" is that he claims to have used some dynamite to blow something up. Then on the next day he is given some TNT, but doesn't use it that night...when another scan would really have provided some benefit.

On some day in the future...I'm moving my vote from NTN to DT, and keeping it there.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

On some day in the future...I'm moving my vote to Glengoyne, and keeping it there.

Two can play that game.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Two can play that game.

you jsut quoted yoursefl d00d.... someone has flipped

[Danny]

LOL

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You had enough time to switch back and you did not. Instead you tried to blame him for not explaining his role further sooner, IIRC.

It actually makes me wonder if it's possible to convert even "cleared" players with roles such as yourself via the bribe mechanism. I mean, it was that bad of a decision, and that poorly timed, that if it were anyone but you, I don't think there would have been any doubt about where a vote would go today.

That's right. When he claimed a role somewhat duplicate to mine, I did not intrinsically trust him. Instead I tried to find a way to trust him, which failed. But when someone claims a role similar to yours the first reaction isn't "Oh he must be good". It's "Oh he must be your counterpart on the other team".

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Haven't said much yet of late, but just wanted to note I am more than a little annoyed at those responsible for voting out someone with at least a little vouching AND a stated role over a completely uncleared individual yesterday.

That was some rather poor decision making by a couple notable individuals, and possibly wolfish for the rest. I think we should look in that direction if we ever have to do another Oust.

I'll admit to some frustration in our voting, heck even a couple of other actions that have been taken/not taken.

In my limited experience, I've seen what can be determined from a voting record. In my one game as a wolf, I know my voting record led the posse straight to me. It seems to me that those votes are the only things that we have to go on, yet yesterday's lynch seemed to be nearly random.

TNT and DT being the only uncleared voters for PB in a two way race, seems to be to be something. It may not be much, but it's something.



---------
As for other voting options, and pursuing cleared players....
Could there have been conversions?...yes.

Do we know that for a fact? no.

With the night kills and the off nights, I'd think we'd be overrun by wolves by now. I don't think a mechanic where the sympathizers save up funds to bribe people fits the theme, as there is big money backing the wolves. I'm leaning to no conversions, or that we're all immune.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Two can play that game.

Something in my voting record making you say that? I've got a rationale. You've got retaliation.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Abe

was EF targeted or was his death random?

Perhaps neither, perhaps both, perhaps one perhaps the other. There's not always going to be a front row seat to behind the scenes mechanics.

[Lathum]

I wonder how much money the wolves are blowing on these false arrests, if any?

I am wondering if their goal is to keep us from winning camps to secure their victory.

Gotta go to class, thats just something that popped into my head while driving in and wanted to post real quick for dicussion.

[Abe Sargent]

Almost a year after the Battle of Matewan, Sid Hatfield has become a hero in the minds of many. He was the lawman who stood up to the companies and their tyranny of illegal actions and won the day.

In the adjacent county, McDowell County, a warrant for the arrest of Sid Hatfield was drawn up for being a part of the union activities in the small town of Mohawk. The trial was set for Aug 21, 1921, despite the lack of evidence. Him and his wife (The Mayor Testerman’s widow) and a miner that had been at the Battle of Matewan, Ed Chambers, make their way to Welch, the county seat of McDowell County to face these charges.

No witnesses have ever placed Hatfield in Mohawk and the charges and warrants have not held up under later scrutiny.

Hatfield was promised complete security and protection by the McDowell County police, and was escorted by several officers, including deputy sheriff James Kirkpatrick.

Ed and Sid were summoned to court to hear the request for a change of venue. According to numerous witness statements, Ed and Sid had left their guns in their hotel room as they were not allowed in court.

As they walked up the stairs of the McDowell County Courthouse, their protection dissolved into the crowd, and around 20 Baldwin-Felts gun-thugs surrounded Ed Chambers and Sid Hatfield and began shooting. After a minute, their bodies riddled with bullets, the Baldwin-Felts detectives left the scene, and left behind numerous witnesses.

Despite the event occurring in broad daylight, on the county courthouse steps, in front of dozens of witnesses and police, not one person was brought to trial for the murder of Sid Hatfield. One Baldwin-Felts detective was brought to trial for the murder of Ed Chambers, and got off when he claimed self defense.


The event – On the Steps of the Courthouse has occurred. Sid Hatfield has been killed.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Perhaps neither, perhaps both, perhaps one perhaps the other. There's not always going to be a front row seat to behind the scenes mechanics.

shocker

[Danny]

Looks like there was no point in getting Sid.

[Glengoyne]

Ouch.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Almost a year after the Battle of Matewan, Sid Hatfield has become a hero in the minds of many. He was the lawman who stood up to the companies and their tyranny of illegal actions and won the day.

In the adjacent county, McDowell County, a warrant for the arrest of Sid Hatfield was drawn up for being a part of the union activities in the small town of Mohawk. The trial was set for Aug 21, 1921, despite the lack of evidence. Him and his wife (The Mayor Testerman’s widow) and a miner that had been at the Battle of Matewan, Ed Chambers, make their way to Welch, the county seat of McDowell County to face these charges.

No witnesses have ever placed Hatfield in Mohawk and the charges and warrants have not held up under later scrutiny.

Hatfield was promised complete security and protection by the McDowell County police, and was escorted by several officers, including deputy sheriff James Kirkpatrick.

Ed and Sid were summoned to court to hear the request for a change of venue. According to numerous witness statements, Ed and Sid had left their guns in their hotel room as they were not allowed in court.

As they walked up the stairs of the McDowell County Courthouse, their protection dissolved into the crowd, and around 20 Baldwin-Felts gun-thugs surrounded Ed Chambers and Sid Hatfield and began shooting. After a minute, their bodies riddled with bullets, the Baldwin-Felts detectives left the scene, and left behind numerous witnesses.

Despite the event occurring in broad daylight, on the county courthouse steps, in front of dozens of witnesses and police, not one person was brought to trial for the murder of Sid Hatfield. One Baldwin-Felts detective was brought to trial for the murder of Ed Chambers, and got off when he claimed self defense.


The event – On the Steps of the Courthouse has occurred. Sid Hatfield has been killed.

wait/..... wtf? again?

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Danny

Looks like there was no point in getting Sid.

+1 im beginning to wonder how much of this is wolf caused, and how much isnt.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

+1 im beginning to wonder how much of this is wolf caused, and how much isnt.

Very True....err...+1

[Abe Sargent]

As the winter progressed, the miners grew quieter and quieter in their camps. There had been no violence since the Federal Troops had been called in, and a growing movement to send them back was gaining steam politically. No one wanted soldiers stationed outside of coal mines during the snowy winter except for the companies. Several owners hatch a scheme to keep the federal troops and pipe in scabs and then have their gun-thugs shoot at them in order to scare them off. (This was confessed in Senate testimony). Thereby, they ensured the continued presence of federal troops as strikebusters.

[Danny]

So far

Hunting 8: Glengoyne, Lathum, DaddyTorgo, Danny, Barkeep, PurdueBrad, Jeheinz and Claphamsa

[Abe Sargent]

Just in case anyone needs it spelled out, with Sid Hatfield gone, the old rules return for all sides and players.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

+1 im beginning to wonder how much of this is wolf caused, and how much isnt.

I agree. We've had 0% indication that the villagers can control anything, so perhaps the wolves don't have such influence either. If all of this is behind the scene stuff I would imagine the lack of control would be equally as frustrating to the wolves as it is to us.

[Barkeep49]

BTW with this latest funny business, I like my earlier statement that DT should keep the dynamite.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

BTW with this latest funny business, I like my earlier statement that DT should keep the dynamite.

i was just gonna say that..... i still dont get why he would want to get rid of it... unless he knew this was gonna happen!

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I agree. We've had 0% indication that the villagers can control anything, so perhaps the wolves don't have such influence either. If all of this is behind the scene stuff I would imagine the lack of control would be equally as frustrating to the wolves as it is to us.

Yeah except everything has gone the way of the wolves so far

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

i was just gonna say that..... i still dont get why he would want to get rid of it... unless he knew this was gonna happen!

Yup. Admittedly I've been calling BS on DT pretty much forever. I know his defense is a logical one, so perhaps my suspicion is incredibly unfair. But with that mindframe it seems like I keep finding more reasons not to like the whole dynamite business. To me it's just as easy for a wolf to pose the questions DT posed, to try and get cover, as for a villager.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I agree. We've had 0% indication that the villagers can control anything, so perhaps the wolves don't have such influence either. If all of this is behind the scene stuff I would imagine the lack of control would be equally as frustrating to the wolves as it is to us.

I'm hoping that the wolves were really on the ropes early, and that my perception that they were kicking our asses is really them just catching up as we villagers are lynching our numbers down to nearer their own.

[DaddyTorgo]

*sigh* well that was a huge waste

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yup. Admittedly I've been calling BS on DT pretty much forever. I know his defense is a logical one, so perhaps my suspicion is incredibly unfair. But with that mindframe it seems like I keep finding more reasons not to like the whole dynamite business. To me it's just as easy for a wolf to pose the questions DT posed, to try and get cover, as for a villager.

why are you so suspicious of me this game????

[Glengoyne]

OK out of the thinking out loud side of my head.

I'll need your feedback on this.

Given that the mechanics are really unknown and while familiar, they are also somewhat different from a normal game. Could a typical villager role, say the Duke, be a wolf role?

BK dukes Pass, and forever earns our trust?

Shout me down, whatever. I know I just said that we need to focus on the uncleards, and I'm not advocating a lynch for BK. I'm just thinking out loud, and wanting feedback.

[Glengoyne]

Out for a bit. Hopefully stirring up some discussion.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Haven't said much yet of late, but just wanted to note I am more than a little annoyed at those responsible for voting out someone with at least a little vouching AND a stated role over a completely uncleared individual yesterday.

That was some rather poor decision making by a couple notable individuals, and possibly wolfish for the rest. I think we should look in that direction if we ever have to do another Oust.

Horseshit CR.

A little vouching for USFL? Where? How? Because he was arrested? That's hogwash and you know it.

And excuse me if I didn't really care for his role reveal. He gave us the name. I'm of the ilk that if you're going to put yourself out there like that and make yourself a target you might as well actually tell us what that name meant. Union Firebrand. I have no idea what that is.

"Look everyone, I'm the Union Chef" (I'm not)

So if I said that would everyone now just cease to vote for me?

Nice MMQB'ing there CR.