FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

which guy are you talking about? the guy tearing down the boards?

My posts were referring to the video of the guy in the gas mask smashing windows with a hammer.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

which guy are you talking about? the guy tearing down the boards?

The dude with the hammer and gas mask that is suspiciously breaking AutoZone windows in a very methodical way?

SI

[sterlingice]

This one's cute, too, where some cop is obviously shooting at reporters:



The quote from the reporter at the end is hilarious, in a dark way: "Do they not know? Obviously they see the camera."

I mean, can't a line be drawn to a lot of this crap from the insane funding that went into local counter-terrorism after 9/11 and the general militarization of the police?

SI

[Autumn]

Isn't there some sort of legal repercussions to targeting press during a time like this? Maybe we're missing some context where they were repeatedly told to move, but I was under the assumption news crews were treated differently than protestors.

[thesloppy]

[thesloppy]

and



You can see the supposed texts further in the thread FWIW:

Dylan on Twitter: "HOLY SHIT. The cop who started the vandalizing was outted by people who know him. His name is Jacob Pederson of the St. Paul PD.… https://t.co/MYgrXJcBuo"

[NobodyHere]

The police are denying it was him FWIW

[thesloppy]

Yeah, I mean I don't think I would rely on a 'close friend' identifying me by two-inches of face showing either, so I'm not going to be too shocked if that accusation falls apart.

The suggestion that there were folks in matching outfits & equipment, with walky talkies, doing a lot of damage is super concerning, practically regardless of their affiliation, but it's hard to know what's accurate in this kind of chaos.

[miked]

Just amazed at watching Atlanta right now. The Target near me (about 4 miles from downtown) was boarded up earlier. I hear up 400 businesses are boarding up. Glad I'm heading to the Blue Ridge area tomorrow.

[sterlingice]

Houston had this happen on Friday:

Dont let them tell you it was peaceful in Downtown Houston #BlackLivesMatter #GeorgeFloyd pic.twitter.com/JWuCRfdlNT
— ª (@vikthewild) May 30, 2020

Houston mounted police officer just plowed into a woman. My wife knows a number of folks in the activist circles here and they know to be leery of the mounted patrol here as, well, they act like this.


Police investigating after video shows mounted patrol officer trample protester in downtown Houston - Houston Chronicle

Investigation opened. I'm sure it will be thorough and fair when this was tweeted from the VP of the Police Union:

Exactly. The whistle is to warms people. If you don’t pay attention, then that’s on your!
— Douglas Griffith (@Griff3945) May 30, 2020

and then doubles down with this:

Ummm. Car doesn’t have a mind of its own, a horse does... try riding one!
— Douglas Griffith (@Griff3945) May 30, 2020

Gee. I wonder why there's not a lot of trust in local law enforcement if this person is in a position of leadership.

SI

[sterlingice]

Also, I don't believe Houston has a curfew tonight, George Floyd was from here and it was announced his body will be returning here, and tonight's protest is heading towards HPD's downtown station tonight. Not a good mix.

SI

[NobodyHere]

I'm employed by a window maker,

I'm hopeful there will be an uptick in business after this past week.

[Atocep]

[CrimsonFox]

out of curiosity does anyone here know of anyone that has been to any protests themselves?
Have you been yourself?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

out of curiosity does anyone here know of anyone that has been to any protests themselves?
Have you been yourself?

No. Because I live in a city where the police have made what seems like a reasonable and good faith effort to address and prevent these issues, I'm smart enough to not only be able to differentiate between different police departments (and officers), but also to understand that anything beyond a peaceful demonstration here will only exacerbate tensions instead of preventing them, and mostly I don't want to be caught up in any crowd that is more interested in filming themselves to impress their friends on social media than having any clear purpose.

But sure, let's shout down the officer trying to engage you and explain their(/his) side

Group moved to @CMPD headquarters. A captain is answering questions from the group pic.twitter.com/fRwjsnx62K

— Bria Bell (@BriaBellTV) May 30, 2020

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

out of curiosity does anyone here know of anyone that has been to any protests themselves?
Have you been yourself?

My just HS graduated daughter was going to one on Monday.

Wife and I told her we preferred if she didn't. Not because we didn't support her passion to be a social activist on BLM but because we were (1) worried about possible violence and (2) social distancing. We asked her to consider another protest in 4-6 months ... by then we would know if we are in relatively good shape with coronavirus or not.

She claimed that it was a peaceful march with 6 ft distancing and I told her I've seen plenty of pictures of protests, beaches, funerals, pool parties and one-way-or-another social distancing doesn't keep.

So she went away dissatisfied and came back an hour later saying she wanted to volunteer to hand out water bottles (she would buy them). We said fine just as long as she wore gloves and masks, had a friend with her, and didn't follow the marchers to wherever.

We were all set to go to WM Sunday morning to buy the water bottles but heard early evening that the march had been cancelled due concerns about possibly escalating violent protests.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Edward64

My just HS graduated daughter was going to one on Monday.

Wife and I told her we preferred if she didn't. Not because we didn't support her passion to be a social activist on BLM but because we were (1) worried about possible violence and (2) social distancing. We asked her to consider another protest in 4-6 months ... by then we would know if we are in relatively good shape with coronavirus or not.

She claimed that it was a peaceful march with 6 ft distancing and I told her I've seen plenty of pictures of protests, beaches, funerals, pool parties and one-way-or-another social distancing doesn't keep.

So she went away dissatisfied and came back an hour later saying she wanted to volunteer to hand out water bottles (she would buy them). We said fine just as long as she wore gloves and masks, had a friend with her, and didn't follow the marchers to wherever.

We were all set to go to WM Sunday morning to buy the water bottles but heard early evening that the march had been cancelled due concerns about possibly escalating violent protests.

Edward, first, I think it's great that your daughter wants to express her support of her beliefs. It's a great thing that all of us are able to do that.

I would have the same concerns that you do and would advise her not to go. With all of the apparent co-opting of the protests for whatever motive, I wouldn't feel safe with one of my children there. Fortunately, you won't have to deal with that. I hope she's able to find another avenue to express her support.

[Jukeman]

I know people that protested in LA, Minneapolis and of course my home city and the consensus is that it’s was peaceful before the instigators and cops started coming.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CA2XCxMhgkX/?igshid=1e41s4udkauf8

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CA2ZBYm...d=5ntz6uh6m6x7

I don’t know if this is antifa, government or some group of people who organized on the Internet or dark web but they all seem to be wearing all black and are located in different cities. I literally seen videos of these people in my city break windows with hammers then leave. Of course the dumb young kids just followed without knowing any better.


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[Ben E Lou]

Absolutely worth 2 minutes and 20 seconds of your time.

Generations of pain. pic.twitter.com/rs16sHhs6m

— Antonio French (@AntonioFrench) May 31, 2020

[JPhillips]

At some point the mindset of a war on crime creates only warriors & criminals. At some point the us versus them mindset creates us versus them...
We are at that point now.
Police must not be warriors.
I am not at war with my neighbors.

— Patrick Skinner (@SkinnerPm) May 31, 2020

Skinner used to work intel in the Middle East and is now a cop. His feed has a lot to say on cop/civilian relations.

[JPhillips]

Speaking of war with my neighbors...

Share widely: National guard and MPD sweeping our residential street. Shooting paint canisters at us on our own front porch. Yelling “light em up” #JusticeForGeorgeFloyd #JusticeForGeorge #BlackLivesMatter pic.twitter.com/bW48imyt55

— Tanya Kerssen (@tkerssen) May 31, 2020

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Absolutely worth 2 minutes and 20 seconds of your time.

Generations of pain. pic.twitter.com/rs16sHhs6m

— Antonio French (@AntonioFrench) May 31, 2020

This brought my to ears, so much pain and anguish.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

out of curiosity does anyone here know of anyone that has been to any protests themselves?
Have you been yourself?

Thought about going but crossing a state line to protest seems like a bad idea.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Absolutely worth 2 minutes and 20 seconds of your time.

Generations of pain. pic.twitter.com/rs16sHhs6m

— Antonio French (@AntonioFrench) May 31, 2020

That was so sad to watch. I’m sorry that shit like this still goes on. These people have every right to be mad. They’re systematically treated like they are lesser humans. Sometimes it feels like humanity is just a big failed experiment. I don’t know if we are redeemable. So much hate, so much disregard for other humans, creatures, and even for our planet. I know there are good people out there, but the selfish and mean ones are so much easier to find. I just feel sad about the world men have created. Surely we could do better than this.

[Jukeman]

Lol you can’t make this stuff up...

All lives matter but pulls out a weapon lol


https://www.instagram.com/p/CA1sxQTn...=1he0djpwk9y7w


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[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Jukeman

Lol you can’t make this stuff up...

All lives matter but pulls out a weapon lol


https://www.instagram.com/p/CA1sxQTn...=1he0djpwk9y7w


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They forgot to practice social distancing when beating that guy up.

ETA:

But in all seriousness, did that guy just decide to walk into a crowd firing a bow?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

out of curiosity does anyone here know of anyone that has been to any protests themselves?
Have you been yourself?

My wife has been to ones in the last couple of years but we're avoiding the ones now because of COVID. I think it's something people should experience - I don't mean part of a riot at 3am but I also don't mean a small protest of only white people. I can guarantee you'll see firsthand what is being talked about with how people are treated differently, even in the same crowd with the same demeanor and same message.

SI

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Absolutely worth 2 minutes and 20 seconds of your time.

It brought tears to me eyes. I have the deepest empathy for the obvious failures of our humanity.

[spleen1015]

Saw some stuff this morning about the Camden, NJ police and how they've spent the last 5 years changing the way they police.

Instead of standing there in their riot gear yesterday, they joined the protest. The Chief even marched at the front of the protest helping to carry the banner.

[booradley]

I think that the American social experiment is over. We just cannot get along on a macro level. Taken as a whole, mankind is just too clan-oriented, and I've lost hope that education can change this. Too many people are just hard-wired to reject those that are different. Blame Mother Nature, I guess ...

It's all very sad.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Jukeman

Lol you can’t make this stuff up...

All lives matter but pulls out a weapon lol

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA1sxQTn...=1he0djpwk9y7w

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Watching too much Daryl on TWD with his bow (crossbow). Its only on TV that someone uses a bow in the zombie apocalypse.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Absolutely worth 2 minutes and 20 seconds of your time.

Generations of pain. pic.twitter.com/rs16sHhs6m

— Antonio French (@AntonioFrench) May 31, 2020

I'm not crying, you're crying...

[ISiddiqui]

I didn't join these particular protests (having a 1 week old tends to prevent that), but I have been to a few in the past. Those didn't dissolve into violence later, and from what I can tell these protests didn't get violent until after the march and program was over and the vast majority went home.

Though Floyd's murder has brought a lot more anger it seems to me.

Also those peaceful protests I was a part of were barely covered - and even then FB comments were hostile. It isn't as of riots never got anything done - look at Stonewall.


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[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Also those peaceful protests I was a part of were barely covered - and even then FB comments were hostile. It isn't as of riots never got anything done - look at Stonewall.

Is Chauvin charged if there are no riots?

SI

[NobodyHere]

Wasn't he charged before most of the riots started?

[CrimsonFox]

Video shows milk poured over face of child pepper-sprayed in Seattle protest | Q13 FOX News

They are macing kids in the face in Seattle

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Is Chauvin charged if there are no riots?

SI

I think so. The video IMO was pretty damning.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Video shows milk poured over face of child pepper-sprayed in Seattle protest | Q13 FOX News

They are macing kids in the face in Seattle

Who the hell brings a kid to a riot?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Speaking of war with my neighbors...

Share widely: National guard and MPD sweeping our residential street. Shooting paint canisters at us on our own front porch. Yelling “light em up” #JusticeForGeorgeFloyd #JusticeForGeorge #BlackLivesMatter pic.twitter.com/bW48imyt55

— Tanya Kerssen (@tkerssen) May 31, 2020

This is illegal not that it matters.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Video shows milk poured over face of child pepper-sprayed in Seattle protest | Q13 FOX News

They are macing kids in the face in Seattle

They are doing horrible things all over. Slate's headline: "Police Erupt in Violence Nationwide"
George Floyd protests: Police erupt in violence nationwide during the third night of protests.

Of course, everyone knows about arrested CNN reporter Omar Jimenez, his on-air arrest, his obvious showing of press credentials, and the double standard shown between him and fellow CNN reporter Josh Campbell in the same area.

In NYC, car running over protesters.

In NYC, taking the mask off of a kid with his arms up in the air and then spraying him

In NYC, a cop just grabs a woman, calls her a bitch, and throws her to the ground.

In NYC, a State Senator is pepper sprayed during a protest.

In NYC, likely higher ranking cop (judging by clothes) starts mixing it up with the protesters and then takes off mask and starts coughing on them (video from Huffington Post's Christopher Mathias, one of the reporters arrested last night for... covering the protest)

In NYC, many more things from a cop flashing a white power sign to one of the many legion of stories talking about how badge numbers were obscured and taped over to avoid identification.

But, hey, de Blasio said they showed great restraint last night.

In Columbus, they shoved and maced a congresswoman who was trying to break up an altercation.

In Minneapolis, they shot paint at people on their own porches

In Minneapolis, they shot rubber bullets at, forced to the ground, and arrested a cameraman who clearly identified himself as being from the local CBS affiliate in Minneapolis.

In Minneapolis, they went into the medic tent and started shooting rubber bullets at nurses and the people they were treating.

In Houston, the mounted police ran down a protester with a horse and the VP of the police union defended it

In Dallas, they bloodied up some woman who was just taking groceries home (dallas morning news story)

In Atlanta, the cops smashed in windows on a car, tazed the occupants, and drug them into the street all on live network news.

In Salt Lake City, they used riot shields to shove down some old man walking with a cane.

In Las Vegas, police charged a crowd, yelling "grab anybody" and arrested two journalists.

In Los Angeles, police beat on the crowd with batons repeatedly and throw punches, live on CNN.

In Omaha, police formed a line to pushed down and march over people sitting in the street with signs and then started firing tear gas into the area.

In Chicago, police pepper sprayed actor John Cusack for breaking curfew to film the carnage from his bike.

In Tampa, (not police related) white supremacists got some airtime as part of the protests.

In Louisville, they ran sirens, then rolled up on people distributing drinking water to protesters, and then destroyed some and took the rest.

In Louisville, there was the one from two nights ago(?), where they just started shooting pepper bullets at a news crew ON THE AIR.

In Louisville, the shoved a reporter for Vice who identified as press to the ground and then maced him

4/ This family started the night thinking they’d need to defend their store from those looking to destroy it, and ended up retreating inside to hide from armed cops firing projectiles at will. I want to thank them for giving journalists safe haven from tonight’s storms.
— Michael Anthony Adams (@MichaelAdams317) May 31, 2020

And these are the easiest ones I could find in less than an hour of Googling that have really credible sources (like being broadcast live on local news) or obvious videos. To say nothing of the quoted potentially pepper spraying a 10 year old in Seattle or this video of another white shirt (captain?) attacking a street medic in NYC who was armed with... milk or this one of Denver police firing a ton of rounds into this guy's car after he yells at them to stop shooting at him and his pregnant girlfriend or this one in San Antonio of a cop shooting a guy just smoking and recording the cops.

There are some good stories coming out of this with people trying to come together.

But /a lot/ of police seem ready to inflame rather than de-escalate and there are way too many to go to the "a few bad apples" defense. A common sentiment I keep seeing is "if this is what they do when the cameras are rolling, what do they do when they're off".

I think a lot of white America was a bit shocked by Ferguson a few years ago. We foolishly thought things had been getting better because they haven't been as visible. I think a lot are now similarly questioning beliefs they had about the police as a force "to serve and protect". And it's also very sad that in these videos, there's often no second cop trying to stop the first or any sort of remorse. In fact, much of the time, they seem to be enjoying this cruelty.

SI

[JPhillips]

I admire all those links.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I admire all those links.

I started just listing stories I had known about and then was like "dammit, I need these to be well sourced or else they will just be dismissed as fake or an over-exaggeration". There's a lot of really bad shit going down during this and I know these just scratch the surface.

SI

[Arles]

If any city's police department wants a road map on how to behave - check out the Flint Sheriff below:

Police officers in Flint lay down their gear and start marching with protesters �� pic.twitter.com/DlqaPSdSW8

— Theo Shantonas (@TheoShantonas) May 31, 2020

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Absolutely worth 2 minutes and 20 seconds of your time.

Generations of pain. pic.twitter.com/rs16sHhs6m

— Antonio French (@AntonioFrench) May 31, 2020

Thanks for the video, Ben. I know that pain all too well. Those men could easily be people I grew up with. That kid could easily be my son. And those men were exactly me 2 days ago in my office talking to my wife. Mad. Angry. Frustrated. Worried about the future of my beautiful children. And overall, tired.

Tired of this bullshit. Tired of having to hear about the same action causing the same protests with the same cries for justice and the same promises for change. Tired of being told the reason the person was killed was that they were a criminal and deserved to die. Or resisted arrest. Or said something. I'm tired of the people killing others getting away with it. Or getting a short sentence.

Just tired of being fucking tired.

I don't know what the solution is, but I think there is one. There will always be people who are prejudiced. It's in the way we're wired...to find comfort with people who are like us and to be concerned with people who aren't. Maybe we all need to start interacting with more people who don't look like us so that we can see that they are like us.

Sorry for the ramble. A lot going through my mind these days that I've wanted to get out. And thanks for reading if you got this far.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I think a lot are now similarly questioning beliefs they had about the police as a force "to serve and protect". And it's also very sad that in these videos, there's often no second cop trying to stop the first or any sort of remorse. In fact, much of the time, they seem to be enjoying this cruelty.

In keeping with this, what practical changes should be made in terms of police reform? I haven't seen this discussed a lot recently. The thing I keep running into when I think about this is the fact that juries repeatedly rarely convict if they even bother indicting police on serious crimes. There's a cultural shift that I think needs to happen for the police violence issue to improve, but other than just waiting for it to happen/protesting, how do we make that happen? What policy changes do people think would help?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

In keeping with this, what practical changes should be made in terms of police reform? I haven't seen this discussed a lot recently. The thing I keep running into when I think about this is the fact that juries repeatedly rarely convict if they even bother indicting police on serious crimes. There's a cultural shift that I think needs to happen for the police violence issue to improve, but other than just waiting for it to happen/protesting, how do we make that happen? What policy changes do people think would help?

Stop giving them military weapons/vehicles is step 1. We can't arm those that are responsible for policing ourselves like those we send to fight the enemy.

Investigations of police officers committing crimes needs to be handled by an independent body.

We also need to come down harder on cops that stand by and watch other cops commit crimes. 3 cops could have stopped what happened in Minneapolis and chose not to.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This is illegal not that it matters.

Not only was it illegal it went against the order given by the Governor. The order was to clear roads and public areas. In the FAQ it even said you can stay outside on your own property.

These are cops cosplaying and pretending to be soldiers.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

In keeping with this, what practical changes should be made in terms of police reform? I haven't seen this discussed a lot recently. The thing I keep running into when I think about this is the fact that juries repeatedly rarely convict if they even bother indicting police on serious crimes. There's a cultural shift that I think needs to happen for the police violence issue to improve, but other than just waiting for it to happen/protesting, how do we make that happen? What policy changes do people think would help?

I can only try and point out a few things that seem inherently wrong from the outside looking in and i freely admit i might have some wrong from my at best casual familiarity with the subject:

1) Training. It is inexplicably short, to name the most obvious difference between the US and Europe. You'd think in a country with such insane problems you needed more training than in, say, Finnland. Not less.

2) It needs to be made more attractive to be willing to make that effort. Spend a few % less on the most oversized military in the world maybe or don't supersize your armory in any bloody station/sheriff department in the country. Spend it on people. Make the job attractive for people of less inherent willingness to "go to war". It is not the military. It is not war. You do not need more people that want to be soldiers but do it closer to home with less risk. You need more people that maybe want to solve a problem, not win a war.

3) Financing should not in the slightest be dependent of stuff like fines or other 'revenue' from policing. If that is widespread, it is insane. (I truly do not know if maybe this is just the exception and way overblown)

4) Stop the insane localisation where the responsibility for things like training or procedures is lain at the feet of people who may or may not be capable of upholding a necessary standard.

Some of differences to Europe put more eloquently:

Why do American cops kill so many compared to European cops?

And yes, i realise the circumstances are different (and gun prevelance in public does not help btw) but some stuff is just shocking. And again, it should be done differently especially in that charged climate.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Thanks for the video, Ben. I know that pain all too well. Those men could easily be people I grew up with. That kid could easily be my son. And those men were exactly me 2 days ago in my office talking to my wife. Mad. Angry. Frustrated. Worried about the future of my beautiful children. And overall, tired.

Tired of this bullshit. Tired of having to hear about the same action causing the same protests with the same cries for justice and the same promises for change. Tired of being told the reason the person was killed was that they were a criminal and deserved to die. Or resisted arrest. Or said something. I'm tired of the people killing others getting away with it. Or getting a short sentence.

Just tired of being fucking tired.

I don't know what the solution is, but I think there is one. There will always be people who are prejudiced. It's in the way we're wired...to find comfort with people who are like us and to be concerned with people who aren't. Maybe we all need to start interacting with more people who don't look like us so that we can see that they are like us.

Sorry for the ramble. A lot going through my mind these days that I've wanted to get out. And thanks for reading if you got this far.

I am going to need you to stop rolling around in my head, grabbing all of my thoughts and putting it in a written form. My father called me yesterday and asked me how I was doing, My response has not changed all week. I am so fucking exhausted.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I admire all those links.

Sadly, I've added at least a half dozen more

SI