Console Discussion/E3/Tokyo Game Show Thread

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

All the power is in the tablet thing. I'm sure I will buy one, but I fear that it's going to be relatively weak processor wise.

That's a given. It's Nintendo. I don't think we expected anything more.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Dear Nintendo,

Most of us already have a PS4. This better not be a PS4 lite. New games for the Switch please.

Report: An Unnamed Third Party is Porting Their PS4 Games to Nintendo Switch

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That's a given. It's Nintendo. I don't think we expected anything more.

I guess i expected that they might have some sort of graphix co-processor in the docking station. Something like a surface book or one of those dell XPS gaming laptops that has the separate graphics dock.

[Atocep]

I think Nintendo is failing to realize that innovative technology simply isn't enough unless you really capture lightening in a bottle like they did with the Wii. In trying to recapture that they're going to miss far more often than they hit.

With PC gaming becoming far more affordable over the past 10 years people want more power from their hardware. Nintendo's first party games are great and are always going to move consoles off of shelves, but it seems less people are willing to drop $300 on a Zelda/Mario machine. The console is cheaper, but you'renot getting the same value that you'd get out of a system with a stronger lineup of games.

My son has moved to online shooters along with the show, madden, and NBA 2k while the only games I've played on our ps4 is last of us and bloodborn. I don't see the switch ever being in our house.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Dear Nintendo,

Most of us already have a PS4. This better not be a PS4 lite. New games for the Switch please.

Report: An Unnamed Third Party is Porting Their PS4 Games to Nintendo Switch

Most of us? I'd argue that most don't have a PS4 and so ported games would be a definite plus. It'd dramatically expand the library.

Originally Posted by Atocep

I think Nintendo is failing to realize that innovative technology simply isn't enough unless you really capture lightening in a bottle like they did with the Wii. In trying to recapture that they're going to miss far more often than they hit.

With PC gaming becoming far more affordable over the past 10 years people want more power from their hardware. Nintendo's first party games are great and are always going to move consoles off of shelves, but it seems less people are willing to drop $300 on a Zelda/Mario machine. The console is cheaper, but you'renot getting the same value that you'd get out of a system with a stronger lineup of games.

I kind of see what you are saying, but I don't think many people are PC gaming as much - especially with most PC sales these days being laptops.

And innovation is the only thing Nintendo really has. It knows it can't really match Microsoft and Sony in terms of hardware power, especially since Nintendo's business philosophy is to not take a loss on hardware (Microsoft doesn't care at all about that, for one). So it has to do something different.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I kind of see what you are saying, but I don't think many people are PC gaming as much - especially with most PC sales these days being laptops.

The 2, if not 3, most played games in the world right now are PC games.

PC gaming has never been more popular than it is right now.

EDIT: I don't think Nintendo has to match Sony and Microsoft. They do need to be competitive though. You're not going to move consoles at a high rate without getting some of the big names (Rockstar, Bethesda, Activision, EA) on board with your product.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The 2, if not 3, most played games in the world right now are PC games.

PC gaming has never been more popular than it is right now.

Disagree.

One of those games is StarCraft II, which is a heavily heavily Korean thing. Blizzard can make money on a niche market that way but that doesn't mean PC gaming as a whole is a healthy ecosystem outside of the indie realm.

One of those games is Football Manager, but Europe as a whole largely eschewed console games for PC games in the 90s and has never really looked back. All of Europe amounts to about the same in terms of console hardware sold as the United States alone does.

I'm not trying to dismiss PC games, because some of my very favorite franchises ever exist because of the PC.

But I just don't think it's accurate to suggest that the PC is the cause of Nintendo having trouble convincing the public to buy underpowered hardware.

Now, the fact that the Xbox 360, Xbox One, and PS4 all essentially use off-the-shelf PC hardware to do their thing, and that they've outshone Nintendo's offerings graphically? Sure, that's a fair comparison.

But nobody goes shopping for a machine to play from their couch and then says "Meh, this looks like SHIT, I'm just gonna get a PC." Steam is trying to change that with the Steam Box and Steam Controller, but it's a stretch to suggest that that dynamic exists in any significant way among the mainstream.

[Atocep]

Stacraft 2 isn't one of the 3 most played PC games. League of Legends, Overwatch, and WoW. Overwatch has console ports as well, but the PC player base alone has been getting close to League in popularity. WoW had fallen off so I'm not sure if the latest expansion has pushed it back into top 2-3 range.

My point is I think people are starting to question the value in a Nintendo console. They love the first party games, but if they have to pass on the heavily graphical games in order to play them then is it worth it? Where PC comes in is its more video game money going away from Nintendo and PC gaming at the moment is the best value per the life cycle of a build. Nintendo has the cheapest entry level cost, but is the value they over the life of the console for most?

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Disagree.

One of those games is StarCraft II, which is a heavily heavily Korean thing. Blizzard can make money on a niche market that way but that doesn't mean PC gaming as a whole is a healthy ecosystem outside of the indie realm.

One of those games is Football Manager, but Europe as a whole largely eschewed console games for PC games in the 90s and has never really looked back. All of Europe amounts to about the same in terms of console hardware sold as the United States alone does.

I'm not trying to dismiss PC games, because some of my very favorite franchises ever exist because of the PC.

But I just don't think it's accurate to suggest that the PC is the cause of Nintendo having trouble convincing the public to buy underpowered hardware.

Now, the fact that the Xbox 360, Xbox One, and PS4 all essentially use off-the-shelf PC hardware to do their thing, and that they've outshone Nintendo's offerings graphically? Sure, that's a fair comparison.

But nobody goes shopping for a machine to play from their couch and then says "Meh, this looks like SHIT, I'm just gonna get a PC." Steam is trying to change that with the Steam Box and Steam Controller, but it's a stretch to suggest that that dynamic exists in any significant way among the mainstream.

Uh, StarCraft 2 isn't even close to being one of the most played games in Korea, and Football Manager isn't even close to the top 3 either.

StarCraft 2 doesn't even rank in the top 5 of Blizzard games being played right now and is behind Brood War in PC bangs.

[ISiddiqui]

Is this games played online.. because based on game sales... I don't see PC games selling a lot these days:

List of best-selling PC games - Wikipedia

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Is this games played online.. because based on game sales... I don't see PC games selling a lot these days:

List of best-selling PC games - Wikipedia

League of Legends is free to play and is bigger than anything in console.

Dota 2 also has 13 million active monthly players as free to play.

[ISiddiqui]

I would imagine being free to play would get you a lot more players .

I don't think that really has any application in console sales discussions. Especially since it appears that games are real time strategy games which aren't the games you'd get on consoles.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Radii]

I'm not sure exactly what's being measured here as I'm in and out of the thread, but I assume there is some relevancy here:

Report: League of Legends made $1.6 billion in revenue last year | The Daily Dot

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I would imagine being free to play would get you a lot more players .

I don't think that really has any application in console sales discussions. Especially since it appears that games are real time strategy games which aren't the games you'd get on consoles.

Spot on. The big numbers are in free-to-play. Also, as you note, most of those games don't translate well to consoles. Sony is bringing out a MOBA on PS4 to try to compete. I'd be shocked if it isn't a complete flop. It's a totally different audience.

I wouldn't sweat the PC geeks who pop in occasionally. They do that every time a new console is announced.

[jeff061]

Whole free-to-play thing bothers me. I'd rather pay $10 a month or $60-$100 total than have to constantlly manage my spend and still probably pay siginificantly more than either of those.

Purposley avoid F2P 100% for those reasons.

[garion333]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Whole free-to-play thing bothers me. I'd rather pay $10 a month or $60-$100 total than have to constantlly manage my spend and still probably pay siginificantly more than either of those.

Purposley avoid F2P 100% for those reasons.

Games like League of Legends, though, are 100% free. You can play and be completely successful for free. What they sell are things like cosmetic items. Yes, they also sell characters, but you can unlock them by playing and not shell out a single dollar.

The idea that F2P should be avoided at all costs is to me a bad decision. Not all F2P were created the same, some are actually pro-consumer. It takes a little more digging to figure out what to avoid, but that's the sort of digging I assume one would already make when deciding what to play.

[NobodyHere]

Microsoft announces a VR headset for $299 | PC Gamer

Interesting, I wonder how good this headset will be. I could use a VR option for PC that doesn't cost $800.

[ISiddiqui]

Looks like there will be a livestream with a lot more details on January 12:

Nintendo teases more Switch details for a January livestream

I figured they'd likely wait until after the holidays to fill more in. They likely didn't want to completely cannibalize sales of WiiU or 3DS games this year.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I figured they'd likely wait until after the holidays to fill more in. They likely didn't want to completely cannibalize sales of WiiU or 3DS games this year.

Are there many sales to cannibalize at this point?

[ISiddiqui]

I dunno.. Super Mario Maker?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

PS4 continues to impress from a sales perspective. PS4 just surpassed 50M units sold. At this same point in its lifecycle, the PS2 had sold 51M units. Will be interesting to see how much of a holiday boost both consoles receive this year.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Specs on the Switch are out. Pretty similar processing power to the Wii U when docked. When portable, it's a bit lower than a PS3.

Nintendo Switch CPU and GPU clock speeds revealed • Eurogamer.net

[ISiddiqui]

From your link, though:

Even a 307.2MHz GPU based on Maxwell technology should be capable of out-performing Wii U - and certainly the Zelda: Breath of the Wild demo seen recently on the Jimmy Fallon show revealed a level of performance significantly smoother than that seen in last year's E3 code running on Wii U hardware. We should also remember that Nvidia has produced a bespoke software layer that should allow developers to get much, much more from the processor compared to what we've seen Tegra achieve in the Android-powered Shield console.

FWIW, the demo on the Fallon show showed him running Breath of the Wild while undocked.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

From your link, though:

FWIW, the demo on the Fallon show showed him running Breath of the Wild while undocked.

I hope it does perform better than expected. I'm buying one either way barring a ridiculous price point. It shouldn't be more than $300 if it's just the system being sold (i.e. no packaged games).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Xbox Boss Says MS will still take risks after Scalebound cancellation

[NobodyHere]

Nintendo is having a presentation on the Nintendo Switch tonight at 11 pm EST. I'll probably be asleep but I can't wait to catch the news tomorrow!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Nintendo is having a presentation on the Nintendo Switch tonight at 11 pm EST. I'll probably be asleep but I can't wait to catch the news tomorrow!

The total lack of posts in this thread is pretty telling.

I think I'll probably still pick it up, but man, they're making it hard.

-$300 price point
-Charging for online service with one free game that you only get for that month (MS and Sony both are giving away 4-6 games/month)
-Zelda is only really must-have at launch
-Over half of the games are downgraded versions of games already on PS4/Xbone

On the positive side:

-Expandable memory cards that aren't proprietary.
-No region locking

Everything We Know About Nintendo Switch

[Kodos]

Can't wait for my son to start whining about not having this one.

[Atocep]

I stand by my criticisms above. The region unlock will be huge for people that were already going to buy one or at least heavily considering one, but Nintendo is falling so far behind on power and online features that a lot of gamers see their stuff as kids toys.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The total lack of posts in this thread is pretty telling.

I think I'll probably still pick it up, but man, they're making it hard.

-$300 price point
-Charging for online service with one free game that you only get for that month (MS and Sony both are giving away 4-6 games/month)
-Zelda is only really must-have at launch
-Over half of the games are downgraded versions of games already on PS4/Xbone

On the positive side:

-Expandable memory cards that aren't proprietary.
-No region locking

Everything We Know About Nintendo Switch

The lack of posts has probably been because the reveal was 11pm last night. Most of the posts on my social media are going crazy excited for it. I'm definitely looking to preorder (and I've never preordered a console before).

[Julio Riddols]

The main benefit of this is its portability. They really really really need to get some games out for it though. They need to give fans what they want. Metroid would be a good start. Dragon Quest would be a big deal for US customers. Mario Odyssey and Zelda look absolutely amazing, but everything else is pretty bland.

But to have to pay 300 for the system and then also shell out for a monthly service and only getting one game a month for that month only.. These are colorblind choices made by a company out of touch. The fact that they didn't show how anything works via demonstration is a very scary thing too.

Nintendo has a lot of work to do, the hype level prior to this unveiling will likely be the height of interest people had in the system. The unveiling eliminated some of those potential buyers by failing to deliver on the feeling that the Switch was something new and different for Nintendo. It is new to be sure, but it really isn't very different.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

The fact that they didn't show how anything works via demonstration is a very scary thing too.

You can go to their YouTube Channel and watch the "Treehouse Live" where they've been spending the day playing the Switch.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

The main benefit of this is its portability. They really really really need to get some games out for it though. They need to give fans what they want. Metroid would be a good start. Dragon Quest would be a big deal for US customers. Mario Odyssey and Zelda look absolutely amazing, but everything else is pretty bland.

The Switch is getting a Dragon Quest Heroes 1 & 2 package plus DQ11. I wouldn't be surprised if Builders doesn't show up as well. I'm personally pleasantly surprised at the launch plus lineup. Zelda, Mario, the Dragon Quests, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, plus whatever Square's working on seems plenty. I'm more interested in the Switch's lineup than I am in the PS4 exclusives at the moment.

[Julio Riddols]

I thought DQ 11 was Japan only.

Its not a bad lineup to be sure.. But as for what will be available at launch I'm pretty thoroughly disappointed.

1-2-Switch - interesting, but should be a pack in game along with Zelda, not a stand alone (if that is what it is).

Just Dance 2017 - Don't care, although I realize there is an audience for it.

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - Sole reason for buying the console at launch IMO. Hard to justify spending 300+ just to play this.

Skylanders: Imaginators - Ugh.

Super Bomberman R - This is decent, but again, not a game I am clamoring for.

Arms (Spring 2017) - From what I saw, another game that should be sold in a similar manner to MS Arcade games. Not anywhere near worth full price.

Has-Been Heroes (March 2017) - Decent, mild interest if it is below $30.

I Am Setsuna (March 2017) - Would prob play this, but can get it on other systems now.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (April 28) - I'd buy this full price.

Puyo Puyo Tetris (Spring 2017) - Another game I wouldn't spend over 20 dollars for.

Snipperclips, Cut It Out Together (March 2017) - Another game that looks like an MS Arcade offering.

That is a TERRIBLE launch lineup.

Not only that, but we don't know how the online thing will work yet, and Nintendo has by far the weakest offering when it comes to benefits for joining their online service. If it isn't revolutionary in other ways, it is just another reason why Nintendo can't compete.

I'm disappointed because I wanted better. I would have loved to see Nintendo seize the opportunity and become juggernauts again, but they had a wide open chance to one up everyone and failed miserably.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You can go to their YouTube Channel and watch the "Treehouse Live" where they've been spending the day playing the Switch.

I'm seeing this now.. It looks reasonably good, but this is stuff that you show at the unveiling IMO. When you have everyone's eyes and you don't make it a point to show how it works in detail, it doesn't breed confidence. Makes me think that it doesn't work as well as they say it does.

Hopefully the game play impressions of people who get some hands on will back up Nintendo's statements, we'll see.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I'm seeing this now.. It looks reasonably good, but this is stuff that you show at the unveiling IMO. When you have everyone's eyes and you don't make it a point to show how it works in detail, it doesn't breed confidence. Makes me think that it doesn't work as well as they say it does.

Hopefully the game play impressions of people who get some hands on will back up Nintendo's statements, we'll see.

Yeah, the early feedback somewhat backs up your fears. They're all excited about Zelda, but somewhat dismissive of most of the other games that were available.

Hands On With The Nintendo Switch

Also, saw that Nintendo's stock dropped nearly 6% today and never came back up. That's a pretty significant hit.

[stevew]

Maybe for Xmas next year. Splatoon should be a must have by then.

[Julio Riddols]

Yeah, Christmas next year would be the prime time to buy. I would expect a price drop for the holidays and hopefully a mario+zelda bundle of some kind. By then we should also have a better idea of what the future holds for the Switch.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Where are the Xbox One's exclusives? | GamesIndustry.biz

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This demo should sell some consoles.

[Julio Riddols]

I've heard good things about the HD rumble as far as how realistic it is capable of being. Apparently its pretty good when fully taken advantage of by the game being played, such as mimicking the spray of milk from the udder when playing the milking game.. Other than that, there are mixed reviews on other aspects. The pro controller sounds like a winner though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Where are the Xbox One's exclusives? | GamesIndustry.biz

I have to scratch my head a bit on this, or rather, on the relevance of this.
I don't mean in this thread -- I'd seen the article prior to seeing your post -- but in general.

And the reason I don't see the real relevance is right there in the article, where it notes that due to multiplatform titles being so common now, there really isn't a shortage of playable titles on the XB1 coming any time soon.

I mean, aside from mostly friendly sniping amongst friends, were there really a lot of titles being sold on the basis of "I only want this cause people on the other console can't have it"?

I get that it was a marketing thing back & forth between the two, and that exclusives could sell consoles on the front of release cycles. Maybe I just misread the article or something, but it felt like they were suggesting more than that.

I'm possibly buying a console in the next week. It'll be a second XB1 for us as a family, 'cause what I'm looking to play is there. But the notion of exclusive titles has zero impact on my choice as long as what I'm gonna play is there , it being exclusive has no real bearing.

[Groundhog]

It definitely means a lot less now than it did before. All exclusive titles do is hurt the game devs really, as you cut your user base in half. Since the current gen consoles seem to be slowly drifting towards "gaming PCs", right down to upgrades.

[Mota]

I prebooked the Switch on Day 1, and now am rethinking it. Every demo I've seen is ... not my demographic. I think the hardware is quite interesting, but if that's what they're going to do with it, I may end up waiting until later to make a decision instead of being an early adopter.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

It definitely means a lot less now than it did before. All exclusive titles do is hurt the game devs really, as you cut your user base in half. Since the current gen consoles seem to be slowly drifting towards "gaming PCs", right down to upgrades.

That concern for developers is a bit misplaced. They're not exclusives just because they want them to be. They're getting a seven figure payment usually to be an exclusive on a console. Don't mourn for them too quickly.

In my case, I'd say over half my library is console exclusives, so it's a big deal to me. I really like a lot of the types of games they make only for the PS4.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Mota

I prebooked the Switch on Day 1, and now am rethinking it. Every demo I've seen is ... not my demographic. I think the hardware is quite interesting, but if that's what they're going to do with it, I may end up waiting until later to make a decision instead of being an early adopter.

If I buy it, it will be for use mostly by my kids. While I don't see myself playing it all that much, I think my 10 and 7 year olds will love it.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I have to scratch my head a bit on this, or rather, on the relevance of this.
I don't mean in this thread -- I'd seen the article prior to seeing your post -- but in general.

And the reason I don't see the real relevance is right there in the article, where it notes that due to multiplatform titles being so common now, there really isn't a shortage of playable titles on the XB1 coming any time soon.

I mean, aside from mostly friendly sniping amongst friends, were there really a lot of titles being sold on the basis of "I only want this cause people on the other console can't have it"?

I get that it was a marketing thing back & forth between the two, and that exclusives could sell consoles on the front of release cycles. Maybe I just misread the article or something, but it felt like they were suggesting more than that.

I'm possibly buying a console in the next week. It'll be a second XB1 for us as a family, 'cause what I'm looking to play is there. But the notion of exclusive titles has zero impact on my choice as long as what I'm gonna play is there , it being exclusive has no real bearing.

Agreed. there are critical exclusives and some that are "whatever" For me The Show alone is worth the PS4.

Crackdown 3 will spend a lot of time in my XBox One. I still like the feel of the XBox controller better, so any game that is available for both consoles will always go to the One. A vast majority of my gameplay is on PC now.

[MizzouRah]

My xbone s controller arrived today, really love the feel of it over the ones that came with the xbone. A new one was long overdue!

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

My xbone s controller arrived today, really love the feel of it over the ones that came with the xbone. A new one was long overdue!

I bought one of the updated controllers on Black Friday and they do feel much better than the original Xbox One pad. My first one felt kind of flimsy and the panels on the grips started to loosen after a couple of months. Very happy with how the new one feels and the Dawn Shadow controller looks awesome.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I bought one of the updated controllers on Black Friday and they do feel much better than the original Xbox One pad. My first one felt kind of flimsy and the panels on the grips started to loosen after a couple of months. Very happy with how the new one feels and the Dawn Shadow controller looks awesome.

Agreed. Mine is the white S controller, very well designed and it's also bluetooth and works on the PC.