WW XCII Sparta -- Claimed by Villagers

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I think you had me until there. I think you're making a lot of sense, but combining it with a dogged persuit of PB which is so far unjustified (as to his actually being a wolf).

Only catch is, you've now entered the part of it where you're frankly being SO stubborn about it, that I can't believe a wolf would possibly act in such a manner.

If I were balancing a werewolf game split between two threads and there were two roled wolfs in the game I would put one in each city. That may not be what happened here, but that is what I would do and that is the assumption I am going under.

[dubb93]

Are you arguing the point about putting a roled wolf in each city or are you arguing the point about PB being the only runner in Sparta?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by dubb93

If I were balancing a werewolf game split between two threads and there were two roled wolfs in the game I would put one in each city. That may not be what happened here, but that is what I would do and that is the assumption I am going under.

While I see your point I'm not going to rule it out. Frankly, speculation like that without concern for the alternative, worries me (akin people who speculate on the number of wolves). It always strikes me as manipulative behavior and you definitely don't have enough cred with your game this far for me to listen to potentially manipulative behavior. For all we know, Pass random'd everything.

[dubb93]

Vote Heinz

I think you are being even more hard headed so far this game than even I have. Something just isn't adding up with you.

[jeheinz72]

You call it hard headed, I call it unwilling to jump to potentially illogical conclusions. FTR, I do think you're more of a misguided villager than an actual wolf so I don't plan on retaliating.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

You call it hard headed, I call it unwilling to jump to potentially illogical conclusions. FTR, I do think you're more of a misguided villager than an actual wolf so I don't plan on retaliating.

I see your point about PB even though I disagree, however to think it was completely random placement I think is very hard headed. Reading the rules I find it hard to believe that one town would be home to the good seer and good bodyguard while the other town would have the anti seer and the seer blocker. The seer and seer blocker go together.

[jeheinz72]

While I'll admit you're *likely* right, I'm not going to base too many suppositions on it. That's my main point. I've seen villages just screw themselves royally by taking a false assumption, building upon it, getting distracted then by the time they realize and try to recover the wolves have secured or nearly secured victory.

I'm not saying you're completely insane for thinking in that line, just that I think basing our actions upon suppositions is a pattern of behavior that over time will have failures.

[DaddyTorgo]

my head frigging hurts trying to follow dubb's line of thought

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

my head frigging hurts trying to follow dubb's line of thought

? Have you read the rules thread? Or did you skim it?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by dubb93

? Have you read the rules thread? Or did you skim it?

50/50

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

50/50

I'll clarify any part of what I've written. As heinz has started what I have said is just likely to be how it works. It is not 100%, but if I need to clarify anything for you please ask away.

[The Jackal]

I mean, I sort of understand what you're saying Dubb, but I don't know that you can perfectly guess how Pass balanced the game, I don't know that I'd be ready to predict how many wolves there are, though of course the roles would be split between the cities. But with Hades involved, it could've been more random than you've outlined.

That being said, it just means that we're still looking for bad people among us.. it may be useful if we are able to start clearing people, though.

[Barkeep49]

Ok so we know Poli to be good. I am surprised he didn't protect himself as that is the standard D1 move.

There are, I believe, 3 known evil roles:
Evil Hopilite
Evil Historian
Evil Marathon runner

There is also an implication that one of the Phoenix's is evil.

I also am of the mind that we can assume that our Historian is evil, since we had the good BG. I also think we have, assuming the Phoenixes are split alliegience, one of the bad combo of the phoenix/marathon runner.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

There is also an implication that one of the Phoenix's is evil.

That would make sense as to why a village win isn't called when it happens. A wolf could always be coming back. Although I'm of the mind that anyone that enters Sparta that isn't here right now is a great lynch vote target.

[The Jackal]

I assume the only person that can join us is the other marathon runner, who we still won't know is good or evil, but we can deal with that when/if it happens.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I assume the only person that can join us is the other marathon runner, who we still won't know is good or evil, but we can deal with that when/if it happens.

A returning phoenix would have a 50/50 shot of being evil as well.

[dubb93]

That is assuming Barkeep's post is how it works.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by dubb93

A returning phoenix would have a 50/50 shot of being evil as well.

Right but that wouldn't be a new person, that's all I'm saying, was just responding to that note.

[jeheinz72]

I'm out for the day, I"ll likely make my voting decision first thing in the morning

[saldana]

i would have to disagree with heinze...it is only logical that Pass would balance the game across the two cities...i cant think of a reason, other than sowing confusion, which is counterproductive to running a game that people enjoy, for having all the wolves in one city

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by saldana

i would have to disagree with heinze...it is only logical that Pass would balance the game across the two cities...i cant think of a reason, other than sowing confusion, which is counterproductive to running a game that people enjoy, for having all the wolves in one city

I agree. It does not good on a game balance front to have one side runaway with each city leaving Hades as the true battleground. It might shake out that way but it shouldn't be designed that way.

[dubb93]

Barkeep, do you have any thoughts about where you may vote today?

[The Jackal]

I'm leaning towards clap or DT, neither of them has really contributed. I know DT had a reason for missing most of day 1, but not participating afterwards isn't helping much. And clap has been strangely quiet. He said he was confused by the rules early on, but it's past early on.

[dubb93]

I voted for Clap fyi. If he's bad I'm worried.

[The Jackal]

for ephor, you mean?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

for ephor, you mean?

Yea

[The Jackal]

Vote DT

Just getting that in there for now. And just a heads up, I'll be gone from 2-10 EST tomorrow due to Flyers related activities. I'll definitely try and be here on my phone when I'm not in the subway around the deadline though.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm leaning towards clap or DT, neither of them has really contributed. I know DT had a reason for missing most of day 1, but not participating afterwards isn't helping much. And clap has been strangely quiet. He said he was confused by the rules early on, but it's past early on.

it's been like 5 hours since deadline

wtf do you want from me!!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Vote DT

Just getting that in there for now. And just a heads up, I'll be gone from 2-10 EST tomorrow due to Flyers related activities. I'll definitely try and be here on my phone when I'm not in the subway around the deadline though.

wtf yo?

[DaddyTorgo]

nobody's really been active since deadline Jackel

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

nobody's really been active since deadline Jackel

I have

[DaddyTorgo]

not much more than me

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

not much more than me

I disagree but agree. I think Jackal would be a higher percentage vote today than you would.

[The Jackal]

Listen, I just wanted to make you talk.. and now you're talking, so my goal was achieved. And I'm aware there hasn't been much discussion aside from the dubb/heinz debate, but that doesn't mean you can't say -something-.

[DaddyTorgo]

still trying to wrap my mind around why people are implicitly trusting dubb and his scenario to be honest. i understand the logic of it, but i think it's dangerous and folly to try to draw macro conclusions like that so early in a game.

[The Jackal]

there's nothing to trust.. any scenario that has been presented doesn't help us solve anything until we have cleared roles, it doesn't matter how many wolves or good roles we have when we can't trust a single person

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

still trying to wrap my mind around why people are implicitly trusting dubb and his scenario to be honest. i understand the logic of it, but i think it's dangerous and folly to try to draw macro conclusions like that so early in a game.

What? That pass would actually balance this game instead of putting the anti seer with the fake seer? That just wouldn't make any sense at all.

[The Jackal]

frankly i'm still curious why dubb declared war on day 1

[dubb93]

DT if you want to trust someone that comes out and says they are the seer go ahead. But don't be suprised when you get lynched the next day for defending an evil character.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol

[DaddyTorgo]

if that happened i'd expect to be lynched and i wouldn't be surprised

[DaddyTorgo]

all that being said, i don't think i'm going to vote dubb or jackel - i think that'd be a case of villager-on-villager crime...maybe danny or clap...

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

frankly i'm still curious why dubb declared war on day 1

As I said I think it would make a hades win much more likely for the village. I think small games play into the hands of wolves and in my experience I have never played in a small game that was won by villagers. The wolves only need to win two games. Here are two games. If we declared war that would have given us a large game(plays into the hands of villagers IMHO). We would have had all the village rolls in one large game and extra days to to analysis. Also the flow of people into hades would have slowed and EVERYONE coming into Hades from that point on would have already played in the large game together.

I think it was a high percentage play for the village. I just don't like villagers chances in games where two wrong votes could very well be game over.

[dubb93]

I mean the same could be asked of Poli. Why did he declare war? He was a villager. I think his had more to do with his not giving a shit than any strategy, but still he was a villager that declared war much as I was.

[The Jackal]

Well that's why my vote was on him yesterday, and he never really talked about it, hence why I asked you before voting you.

[dubb93]

Unvote Heinz
Vote DT

I think you are the evil seer.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by dubb93

If I were balancing a werewolf game split between two threads and there were two roled wolfs in the game I would put one in each city. That may not be what happened here, but that is what I would do and that is the assumption I am going under.

yeah most use random. org... we can make no assumptions as to who is what

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm leaning towards clap or DT, neither of them has really contributed. I know DT had a reason for missing most of day 1, but not participating afterwards isn't helping much. And clap has been strangely quiet. He said he was confused by the rules early on, but it's past early on.

day one isnt early?

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I voted for Clap fyi. If he's bad I'm worried.

dont worry i didnt win.....

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I have

youve been active the whole time... and all your doing is throwing out idea after idea, and then picking one, and assuming its truth... with no backup.

this doesnt seem wolfy to me, just insane.