If Trump Loses In November, What Do You Think Happens Next

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

People who describe themselves as "moderates" are often not.

This is true, and it is outside of MAGA.

There are folks for whom being a "moderate" or "independent" is an important part of their political identity.

You might have someone who hasn't voted for a GOPer since Bush I, but they will still call themselves "independent" when anyone asks. Or the same thing for someone who's gone straight-ticket GOP since Reagan.

People who poll sometimes try to tease out true independents (who are a very small sliver of the population) from leaners and folks who are consistent "independent" straight-tickets voters.

[NobodyHere]

I think mixing moderates and independents is just muddying the waters here. An independent just means you don't belong to either of the major parties. A moderate is someone who tends to shy away from extremist beliefs.

[BYU 14]

I am registered independent and very moderate, actually most closely aligning as Libertarian.

I voted probably 60/40 GOP before Trump, in 2016 it was close to 80/20 Dem and this past election 100 Dem, only because there was absolutely nobody on the GOP ticket here in AZ that fit the definition of what I consider a classic republican with a more moderate lean. Most are all wacky Trumpsters and until I see his influence leave the GOP, I don't see myself voting anything but Dem and 3rd party in the near future, at least where I live.

There are still republican's I would totally support, Kinzinger immediately comes to mind, hell even Romney, but they are few and far between.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

If all self-identifying moderates voted Republican Democrats would lose every election. How do you know they are even Republican voters? I mean, I don't know that. Where do you get this presumption from?

I'm obviously talking about moderates that vote republican. Or independents. Or whatever term you like.

anyone who votes with the current republican party is complicit with everything that goes along with.

There is no more "well, I don't love how easy it is to get guns, but I will never vote dem because every fetus is a life"

You vote republican now you own all the other shit.

sometimes it really is that simple.

[Brian Swartz]

I'm obviously talking about moderates that vote republican. Or independents. Or whatever term you like.

Ok, but how is that relevant to the current discussion, which is about polling data relating to the *entire* set of self-described moderates? I mean, nowhere did I mention moderates who vote Republican. It's also true, as I mentioned, that the concern applies to a lesser degree to self-described *liberals*.

Unless I'm missing something, this seems a response to nothing I said, ever .

[Lathum]

Sorry Brian but I'm done. You get these conversations to a point where it is impossible to even remember what the initial discussion was.

You wanna exist in some dream world where both sides need to find a way to validate the others opinions regardless of how insane one sides is, knock yourself out. I'll be over here in Narnia.

[Brian Swartz]

Ok. I find that totally mind-boggling since I'm just making the same point I made in my initial post that you responded to, which ... while repetitive, seemed necessary to try to get back on track from the rabbit trails. I don't think I'm the one sidetracking or confusing the discussion.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

That just leaves us in a position where we accept what polls say when it suits us, and don't when it doesn't. I mean, if we're not willing to take self-identification at face value, is there any point in debating anything?

Why does self-identifying matter when we can look at actual votes to see what is popular and what is not?

Also what does the term moderate even mean? Socially moderate? Fiscally moderate? Someone in the middle of Republican and Democratic parties? That would be far-right to most of the advanced world.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Someone in the middle of Republican and Democratic parties? That would be far-right to most of the advanced world.

That would be relevant if we were discussing global politics. In terms of American politics, where someone sits relative to American liberals and conservatives is the relevant measure.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why does self-identifying matter when we can look at actual votes to see what is popular and what is not?

Because the question isn't what candidates, parties, or policies are popular. the question is, to what degree are people afraid to voice their political opinions publicly in the nation's current political climate.

[PilotMan]

Shocking as it may seem, I'm a moderate, despite the brush that gets painted around here.

I just can't stand the bullshit that and the double dealing that comes from the right. There's no emphasis on the collective good, or any sort of sacrifice to make the group stronger. It's only about how can I get mine. The constant lying about what they actually said, the screaming and fearmongering about the end of times because the other side wants health care for women or other things. The Birthers.....blatant racism...yet gets a pass, and on top of that, denials that it was ever a big deal, and double down on holding someone responsible for supporting it. Remember the time Obama was going to declare martial law and take over Texas with a Wal-Mart? Yeah...so nobody ever comes out and goes, yeah...that was dumb...we were wrong. They never...ever...are held responsible for this stupid shit. Instead they simply spread 10, 20, 100 more lies and stories to muddy the field and the discussions. Until this exact mindset is challenged, changed, real discussion can not take place. All I want is honestly, integrity and responsibility.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Sorry Brian but I'm done. You get these conversations to a point where it is impossible to even remember what the initial discussion was.

You wanna exist in some dream world where both sides need to find a way to validate the others opinions regardless of how insane one sides is, knock yourself out. I'll be over here in Narnia.

I wanna exist in a dream world where opposing sides can talk civilly to each other.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Because the question isn't what candidates, parties, or policies are popular. the question is, to what degree are people afraid to voice their political opinions publicly in the nation's current political climate.

I don't think it's any different than it has ever been. The old adage about religion and politics at the dinner table still applies. It's an emotional topic and people who have something to lose will avoid putting themselves out there if they don't have to.

[JPhillips]

Just some highlights of the day:

Tucker Carlson, at a far-right conference in Hungary, spoke glowingly of the repressive Hungarian regime and how it's a model for the USA.

Newt Gingrich fully embraced the great replacement theory on Fox with no pushback.

JD Vance said the "childless left" is out to destroy the country.

Ron Desantis said COVID in FL is being spread by immigrants let in by Dems.

How do you find areas of compromise when so many GOPers are lying white nationalists.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Sorry Brian but I'm done. You get these conversations to a point where it is impossible to even remember what the initial discussion was.

You wanna exist in some dream world where both sides need to find a way to validate the others opinions regardless of how insane one sides is, knock yourself out. I'll be over here in Narnia.

I live there with Aslan and Fenris Ulf!

[thesloppy]

https://www.axios.com/axios-ipsos-po...c94361d92.html



"Yes, that’s right. Unvaccinated people blame, in descending order, foreigners and the mainstream media for the current wave of COVID."

[GrantDawg]

It fits. Hating non-whites and anybody with more than high school education is on brand.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't think it's any different than it has ever been.

This just isn't what the data shows. It shows increases over time across all political groups, from strong conservative to strong liberal and everywhere in between.

[AlexB]

For me it’s not being afraid to voice my political opinion, it’s more a case of can I be bothered with overcoming one of the two standard responses before any small chance of discussion can take place:
Yeah, but Trump…. or, Yeah, but the libtards…
Don’t both sides this…

Many on both sides seem to me to be mirror images of each other, but in the ingrained total allegiance, complete inability to deviate from, or even question, the one party line, and in the fear/horror of the other side.

As such debate (or even discussion my case as I don’t know enough about the overall platforms of each party behind the headlines or fear inducing clickbait) isn’t worth the vitriol and or closed mindedness that usually comes with it.

[Brian Swartz]

Some positive news; Americans say it's bad if Trump runs in 2024 by a 2:1 margin. 'Only' 73% of Republicans think he should run, which is a lot but it's nowhere near the numbers he was getting while still in office. Some are figuring out that it's over.

[PilotMan]

It's still an overwhelming supermajority of one of the TWO political parties in the US. Set everything else aside, those are pretty fucked statistics for someone who was impeached twice and has more baggage than British Royal.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Tucker Carlson, at a far-right conference in Hungary, spoke glowingly of the repressive Hungarian regime and how it's a model for the USA.

The leading media voice on the right and close advisor to the former President is pumping up a country that has shifted toward soft fascism.

[sterlingice]

But, hey, the left who can't even get agreement on an infrastructure bill (but maybe if there's enough pork for all), can't even break the filibuster for a voting rights bill, gun control bill, environmental reforms, election reforms, or immigration reforms and is about to lose any real access to abortion for at least half the country if not more to the courts while they're beginning to carve up the meager rights only recently granted the LBGT community. Who just kneecapped another one of their progressives to install a more centrist candidate in Ohio. Them, they're rolling this country towards Communism. They're definitely the same left and right, both sides and all.

SI

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Some positive news; Americans say it's bad if Trump runs in 2024 by a 2:1 margin. 'Only' 73% of Republicans think he should run, which is a lot but it's nowhere near the numbers he was getting while still in office. Some are figuring out that it's over.

So Trump runs and wins 73% of the primary vote. That makes him the R candidate. In the general election, all R's vote R. The election is a tossup. I don't see it as positive at all.

[Brian Swartz]

It's better than staying over 90% isn't it? 20% of Republicans realizing that Trump shouldn't run again is better than them not realizing that. We're a long way from '24 still also. Maybe Trump rebounds, but maybe he also continues to erode in which case it's possible he doesn't even win the nomination. Even if he does, small steps are better than no steps at all.

[Kodos]

Not wanting him to run does not equal won't vote for him if he's the nominee.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

https://www.axios.com/axios-ipsos-po...c94361d92.html



"Yes, that’s right. Unvaccinated people blame, in descending order, foreigners and the mainstream media for the current wave of COVID."

Imagine it was more clearly worded. I bet "immigrants" would have gotten a higher score than that. Oh, look, deSantis drawing that card now:

DeSantis blames COVID surge on immigrants as Florida pediatric cases soar, hospitals fill up.

And he pointed the finger at Biden, saying he is the one who is “helping facilitate” the spread of COVID-19 by not securing the country’s Southern border with Mexico. “You have hundreds of thousands of people pouring across every month,” DeSantis said. “Not only are they letting them through, they’re farming them out all across the country, putting them on planes, putting them on buses. Do you think they’re worrying about COVID for that? Of course not.” As might be expected, DeSantis didn’t provide any evidence to support his allegations that “whatever variants there are around the world, they’re coming across that Southern border.”

[PilotMan]

All he needed to add was to call them Dirty Beaners and he'd have gotten the full house.

[Flasch186]

@brian cannot read that chart

Too many colors so he’ll ignore it and find a more simpler chart that doesn’t agree with that one and is in only one color.

It’s laughable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PilotMan]

McCarthy had a reporter drug out of a press conference for, what appears to be, asking a question about his opposition to the Jan 6 committee.

Guessing he asked it a couple times and was ignored until that moment, but I only saw the end of the clip.

Clearly this is a both sides issue.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

This just isn't what the data shows. It shows increases over time across all political groups, from strong conservative to strong liberal and everywhere in between.

Maybe because it is easier to find out what your political beliefs are? In the 60's, you didn't have to worry about your boss Googling you and finding out what you support on your Facebook page.

I might be in the minority, but I've never brought up politics in work or personal situations because there is zero benefit to be gained from it.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Maybe because it is easier to find out what your political beliefs are? In the 60's, you didn't have to worry about your boss Googling you and finding out what you support on your Facebook page.

I might be in the minority, but I've never brought up politics in work or personal situations because there is zero benefit to be gained from it.

This, there are very few people I discuss politics with, which is why it is so nice to vent here about stuff. And I don't know why anyone would bring politics up at work. Never a good idea, especially the larger your company

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

This, there are very few people I discuss politics with, which is why it is so nice to vent here about stuff. And I don't know why anyone would bring politics up at work. Never a good idea, especially the larger your company

I totally understand. I very much avoid this at work, unless I'm with someone who has a similar point of view, and when I'm not, I make it a point early on to point out that I don't necessarily share their pov and hope they just drop it and move on.

[NobodyHere]

Mike Lindell Delays 'Cyber Symposium' After Saying He Was Hacked

Sorry folks, it looks like Trumps reinstatement is going to be delayed for a little bit longer. If only Mike had put his evidence under his MyPillow or something...

[Atocep]

The Hackers must be the best in the world to be able to hack the pillow guy that's going to expose how voting machines that aren't connected to the internet were hacked by China.

[JPhillips]

Perhaps one of his lawyers pointed out that Dominion will soon own the entire company.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Perhaps one of his lawyers pointed out that Dominion will soon own the entire company.

So soon Dominion will control all the evidence, what a f***ing great plan!

[BYU 14]

Man I have been doing it wrong my whole life, so over the next 4 years I need to.

1-Develop a crack habit
2-Find God and stop cold Turkey
3-Invent some ridiculously crappy product (Thinking about My Oven Mitts)
4-Become a millionaire
5-Fall in love with some equally whacked out politician
6-Claim massive fraud when they get trounced in their next election
7-Spend my entire 'My Oven Mitt' fortune on spreading batshit crazy conspiracies.
8-Appear on Jimmy Kimmel so anybody left that has not seen what a nut job I have become, can enjoy my pathetic insanity.
9-And finally, the pinnacle of my journey, become the most lampooned human on FOFC and appear on video chats in my underwear!

Did I miss anything?

[NobodyHere]

You missed being attacked at your cyber security symposium

Mike Lindell 'attacked' last night, police report has been filed

I could believe that someone could attack Mike (and if true I hope they are arrested).
I could also believe Mike was lying.
I could also believe Mike was high on crack and really thought he was attacked by Antifa.

[Ghost Econ]

Clean energy causes birds to explode... but I'm sure both sides are the same.

Rep. Louie Gohmert warned OAN viewers about the "hundreds and thousands" of "Flamers," aka birds who survive windmills but wind up spontaneously combusting after flying over solar farms in the Southwest US. This is how the green new deal will bring the nation down. pic.twitter.com/FYaw8ivElT

— Bee (@mount_bees) August 12, 2021

[Lathum]

Hundreds of thousands of OAN viewers are outraged by this while scarfing down buckets of kfc...

[Lathum]

Hundreds of thousands of OAN viewers are outraged by this while scarfing down buckets of kfc...

[Lathum]

Even more damning than we thought

The Gilead stock that Rand Paul’s wife bought in Feb ‘20 was the ONLY time in 10 years that the couple had purchased shares of a single stock

She bought the shares after the private Covid briefing for Senators

Well, this stinks to high heaven

— Lindy Li (@lindyli) August 13, 2021

may be more to this Rand Paul thing then it first appeared.

[albionmoonlight]

Senators legally being allowed to buy and sell stock based on their insider information is sometimes the example I use to explain how something can be legal but not ethical.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

There's such an easy fix, too. Just make it so that elected members of Congress and their spouses can own passively managed index funds but not individual shares of public companies. You could even do the thing where they are allowed to sell their personal holdings and re-invest in an index fund without having to realize the capital gains.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Hundreds of thousands of OAN viewers are outraged by this while scarfing down buckets of kfc...

This could probably be posted as an accurate reaction to just about any news story.

[Thomkal]

So after the stunning evidence from the My Pillow Guy's Cyber Composium, I'm ready to welcome back Donald Trump back to the Presidency, aren't you?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So after the stunning evidence from the My Pillow Guy's Cyber Composium, I'm ready to welcome back Donald Trump back to the Presidency, aren't you?

Hopefully soon, the helium is slowly leaking from my balloons, or maybe that is just Lindell huffing it out.

[sterlingice]

Wasn't today supposed to be the big day when Trump is ushered back into office? Or did I miss the goalpost move?

SI

[Kodos]

No, he’s back now.

[bronconick]

He's in, he just makes Biden do the paperwork.