Game of Thrones on HBO

[law90026]

Overall I thought the episode wasn't great. For a shortened season, I'm not sure spending that much time on setting the scene for next week makes sense, especially coming after last week's episode.

Things I liked would be how manipulative Cersei is, the buildup to a showdown of some sort in Winterfell and Dany's heel turn.

Thought the Oldtown scene was largely a waste of space since it's key purpose seems to be to let us know that Jon is a Targaryen, which could probably have been streamlined more. The Tyrion and Jaime meeting didn't have much emotional impact for me, compared to Sansa and Arya. The Dirty 7 seemed very contrived overall and, if Gendry dies, even his storyline seems like a waste of space and his return would just feel like fan service.

[Radii]

My guesses: Jon and Gendry survive (they wouldn't bring Gendry back to kill him immediately), I'd bet money on both of those. I think the Hound survives. Jorah is 50/50, it would make sense for him to die here serving her queen after being cured. Everyone else dies. I'll be sad to lose Tormund.

[thesloppy]

Yeah, Tormund's only remaining connection to the plot/show seems to be his fan favorite status, which just about guarantees his death & gasping motivational speech.

[General Mike]

What's the deal with Beric on the show? I guess if Thoros dies first, he could die

[RainMaker]

This feels like a season that needed 10 episodes and not 7. I love it but everything feels so rushed. Especially when the show moved at a snails pace the last few seasons.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by law90026

Thought the Oldtown scene was largely a waste of space since it's key purpose seems to be to let us know that Jon is a Targaryen, which could probably have been streamlined more. T

I think it was more to show he wasn't a bastard, but the one true king, Jon of House Targaryen the first of his name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by General Mike

What's the deal with Beric on the show? I guess if Thoros dies first, he could die

What is the story behind Beric & crew?

[RainMaker]

I think Jon is a lock to survive. Feel like The Hound has to survive as it'd be an unsatsifying way to finish off his character. Gendry feels like he's around to make weapons to kill the whitewalkers (didn't he learn from someone who knew how to craft Valaryian steel?). The rest seem like they could die, especially since the Brotherhood really hasn't been important to the show in some time.

Jorah is the most fascinating. I can see him making a final sacrifice for his Queen although I think they'd save that for when he's protecting her and she can react.

Is there a chance he'd allow himself to be sacrificed so that when he's resurrected as a wight he can be taken by them? Capturing a wight seems hard.

[Neon_Chaos]

If Jon snow didn't have plot armor at this point, I'd put money on him biting the dust.

Anyone who's ever said "I wish you good fortune on the wars to come" has kicked the bucket.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Edward64

What is the story behind Beric & crew?

Eddard sent Beric and a crew of guys to arrest the Mountain in season one. Since then they've been trying to protect the small folk from different armies that might take advantage of them. Now they have shifted their focus to the White Walkers due to their allegiance to the Lord of Light.

[RainMaker]

Is there a chance that one of the dragons will swoop in and save the day for them? I know it's a longshot but Jon has the connection and perhaps they can sense the danger (like they have when Dany is in trouble).

[molson]

I was thinking that. This show (and battles in movies and TV shows generally) often culminate in a "surprise" new participant to the battle, turning the tide. But, you'd think that the dragons v. white walkers (fire v. ice) would be saved for the final battle or final season, and not used just for this intermediate step of transporting 1 white walker.

But if a dragon does show up I think that might be a sign that the show won't end with a war v. the white walkers and that issue will wrap up earlier.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Is there a chance that one of the dragons will swoop in and save the day for them? I know it's a longshot but Jon has the connection and perhaps they can sense the danger (like they have when Dany is in trouble).

I'm betting it goes even further. (This might be wish fulfillment.)

Dragons come in to save the day. One dies in the ensuing fight...and we get ourselves a Muthafuckin' Ice Dragon (tm).

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I'm betting it goes even further. (This might be wish fulfillment.)

Dragons come in to save the day. One dies in the ensuing fight...and we get ourselves a Muthafuckin' Ice Dragon (tm).

I am so very much in this line.

[Groundhog]

I'm kinda wondering about the whole warg thing and the dragons too. Could be interesting.

[thesloppy]

Considering how fast the travel has gotten lately I find it especially amusing how many scenes seem to end or begin with people getting in little boats. I understand that they are getting onto much bigger boats later, but it still makes me laugh that they keep stepping in and out of tiny row-boats before traveling great distances at previously un-imagined speeds.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Considering how fast the travel has gotten lately I find it especially amusing how many scenes seem to end or begin with people getting in little boats. I understand that they are getting onto much bigger boats later, but it still makes me laugh that they keep stepping in and out of tiny row-boats before traveling great distances at previously un-imagined speeds.

Gendry was in King's Landing, Dragonstone, and The Wall. In a single episode.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Gendry was in King's Landing, Dragonstone, and The Wall. In a single episode.

Heh! Two weeks ago Euron's navy was all-powerful, all-knowing on the seas.... but they haven't been looking for Gendry rowing a tiny boat at light speed!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Gendry was in King's Landing, Dragonstone, and The Wall. In a single episode.

That's nothing. Davos started in Dragonstone, travelled to King's Landing, travelled back to Dragonstone, and then on to the Wall.

[Chief Rum]

I may be letting the book lead my thinking here, and the method for doing this has not yet been made known, but I think the last episode is going to end on a killer scene.

I thought about what it could be. It won't be something simple like the army of the dead gathering at the foot of the Wall, and it seems unlikely to be a battle scene, since the sides are temporarily on hold while Jon & crew go off wight hunting. And even though Sansa-Arya-Littlefinger is likely to blow up in the next couple episodes, it's not big enough.

So, my gut says, somehow, the Wall comes down in Episode 7. That is the last scene the show will leave us before signing off.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So, my gut says, somehow, the Wall comes down in Episode 7. That is the last scene the show will leave us before signing off.

I do like this idea.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So, my gut says, somehow, the Wall comes down in Episode 7. That is the last scene the show will leave us before signing off.

Know what would take down the Wall in epic style?

Aforementioned Muthafuckin' Ice Dragon blasting it with...zombie ice dragon fire?...zombie ice dragon fire.

[Coffee Warlord]

As a side note. I'm still very disappointed they didn't troll everyone and put Zombie Hodor in with the undead army.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

As a side note. I'm still very disappointed they didn't troll everyone and put Zombie Hodor in with the undead army.

Ah man, that would have been really sad.

I wonder when Uncle Benjen shows up again (he has to at least one more time right)?

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm kind of hoping they just leave him by the wayside. We've had enough random people popping in to save the day, and since it's a safe bet Dany and the Dragons are coming to save the day already...I'm hoping that's enough.

[ISiddiqui]

Hodor has to be a wight at this point in time. It wouldn't make sense if he wasn't.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm sure he *is*. I was really hoping they'd show it, just to feast on internet tears.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I'm betting it goes even further. (This might be wish fulfillment.)

Dragons come in to save the day. One dies in the ensuing fight...and we get ourselves a Muthafuckin' Ice Dragon (tm).

Spoiler

this was pretty much confirmed in script leaks

Also agree that

Spoiler

undead Jorah was also pretty much confirmed, and is logical storytelling regardless

[Neon_Chaos]

Episode 6 has been leaked. I may or may not have watched it either.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wait, what? You would have shown none of the Tarly scene or the Bronn-Jaime stuff, just to create mystery around what happened? Is that what you're advocating there? If so, I heartily disagree. The showrunners would have been ridiculed and roasted if they ended a premium episode with a major character sinking into a watery abyss and then magically transport him to safety with no explanation. And what gain can be had from having the Tarlys killed off screen, not only the meaning of the act itself, but what the scene meant for Daenerys' development as a ruler-queen and the impact it could have on Sam.

I feel like I must be missing something because your suggestion seems absolutely daft to me, and you're not usually someone I see say something I absolutely cannot connect to or comprehend.

Originally Posted by molson

Ya I wasn't sure what that sentence meant either - I wondered if maybe BishopMVP missed the part where there were burned alive and stuff.

Yeah, turned on HBOGo at like 9:08 & it was Jon Snow watching Dany fly the dragon in then having the staredown. It seemed odd at the time (and I wasn't even drinking this Sunday - just super tired!), got caught up the next day. I still say the Jaime/Bronn thing was too easy, but the Tarly scene was good.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Remember the Sansa letter referenced later? I think that Ned would have dismissed it as coerced. And Robert would never believe it. I'm also fairly sure that Ned's father and brother would still go to Aerys to ask for Lyanna's freedom and get roasted alive.

Also if you speak out, you lose Dorne as an ally in the war.

Dorne's allegiance is a good point, but I still think he could've reached out to Ned... we don't know exactly what the prophecy was, but it seems like they were leaving a whole lot to chance. Maybe he never thought he'd get killed on The Trident, or anybody would get by Ser Arthur Dayne, but like Lyanna pointed out Robert would've killed him in a second if he'd known the lineage. Idk, (would still love to see a whole prequel season on Robert's Rebellion!), but I think people knew Rhaegar & Aerys had enough separation Ned would've listened. Presumably Lyanna also knew Rhaegar died long before Ned arrived at the tower, so perhaps she could've sent a raven or figure it'd be worth mentioning that Ned's group & The Sword of the Morning might actually want the same thing.

Originally Posted by Logan

I don't even follow the plan. The army travels in, well, an army and maybe a few break off randomly. You're just going to wander until you find one of these smaller packs?

I'm not sure the show (or books) has exactly explained who comes back as wights, but doesn't anyone who dies near the Wall, or at least North of it, automatically turn into a wight, even if they're brought back through it*? I don't even think you'd have to execute a prisoner or criminal if you're that squeamish, just wait for anybody to die of natural causes & chain them up before they turn & come back. This whole plan is dumb as shit and ridiculously contrived to set up a sweet battle & some heroic stands/deaths. It's the penultimate episode of the penultimate season - why not just have the Zombie/White Walker army attack Eastwatch & have this group lead the defense of it instead of manufacturing a dumb reason to have them go North of the Wall & put themselves at a massive disadvantage? While I'm ranting, for an army that doesn't need to eat or sleep and moves much faster than classic Romero zombies in battle this White Walker army is sure as heck taking it's sweet ass time getting from Hardhome to the Wall considering the amount of places Jon Snow's been since then!

Re: my guesses for who dies? Idk, think Jon has to survive, though Thoros traveling with them & his multiple instances of hiding his death & resurrection from Dany makes me think he could die & be resurrected again in front of her if she comes flying in to save the day. Having Gendry & the Hound back pass through the North when Arya is back & not have a reunion seems wildly out of character for these writers post-books. I also feel like Tormund has to get a little reciprocation of his love for Brienne before he kicks it.

* - unless you want to argue those Night's Watchmen who came back as wight's in Castle Black were specifically touched by the White Walkers, and they've just been burning everyone's bodies since out of unnecessary caution.

[ISiddiqui]

LOL - apparently HBO leaked their own next episode. Accidentally put it up in Spain before taking it down - of course the damage was already done.

[Groundhog]

I also ate the forbidden fruit, but will post no spoilers here before it airs on TV...

[thesloppy]

I AM going to spoil things: travel times get even more ridiculous.

[Mota]

Yes, I agree. Do you remember when it took half a season to get from Winterfell to King's Landing? (Season 1)

[stevew]

GRRM basically has to show up as grand maester Samwell in a epilogue, right?

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by stevew

GRRM basically has to show up as grand maester Samwell in a epilogue, right?

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I AM going to spoil things: travel times get even more ridiculous.

You were not kidding. Gendry may be a shit rower, but he's a helluva marathon runner.

[bronconick]

All those years of asking "Who will be the 3rd dragon?" Meaningless. Thank Christ

[bhlloy]

Still good TV but this really is reaching cliche city at this point

[Radii]

So I saw the episode early b/c of the HD leak, have been holding thoughts back til now. But they remain unchanged given additional time to think.

This is without question the worst "action oriented" GoT episode, and maybe the worst storytelling/decisionmaking of the entire series. The end results and where we will start the next episode... all fine. But the way we got there is just completely filled with confusion and is altogether infuriating.

This is the second time that stupid Jon Snow goes maximum stupid and has to be bailed out by plot armor and questionable intervention after ridiculously bad storytelling. What was actually his plan... at any point... to capture a walker alive? If this is the hero of the story, they're doing a really shit job of making me want to see him succeed. Honestly, the dude needs to die before something worse happens to Dany or any of the other potentially competant leaders at his ridiculous expense.


All of that said, the dragon death was freaking beautiful, that moment was just glorious and landed for me as hard as I imagine it was supposed to. And good call all those that predicted it

[Kodos]

Now I have an Ice Dragon. Ho ho ho.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Radii

So I saw the episode early b/c of the HD leak, have been holding thoughts back til now. But they remain unchanged given additional time to think.

This is without question the worst "action oriented" GoT episode, and maybe the worst storytelling/decisionmaking of the entire series. The end results and where we will start the next episode... all fine. But the way we got there is just completely filled with confusion and is altogether infuriating.

This is the second time that stupid Jon Snow goes maximum stupid and has to be bailed out by plot armor and questionable intervention after ridiculously bad storytelling. What was actually his plan... at any point... to capture a walker alive? If this is the hero of the story, they're doing a really shit job of making me want to see him succeed. Honestly, the dude needs to die before something worse happens to Dany or any of the other potentially competant leaders at his ridiculous expense.


All of that said, the dragon death was freaking beautiful, that moment was just glorious and landed for me as hard as I imagine it was supposed to. And good call all those that predicted it

As much as I love this story and have rose-tinted glasses revolving around how wonderfully the show has brought it to life, Radii and most of those who have been espousing this line of thought for the last few weeks are spot-freaking-on. I am not sure if it is because they have sped the pacing up or if the writers really are that much worse than Martin himself, but the storytelling aspect has taken a ginormous dump recently.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Radii

So I saw the episode early b/c of the HD leak, have been holding thoughts back til now. But they remain unchanged given additional time to think.

This is without question the worst "action oriented" GoT episode, and maybe the worst storytelling/decisionmaking of the entire series. The end results and where we will start the next episode... all fine. But the way we got there is just completely filled with confusion and is altogether infuriating.

This is the second time that stupid Jon Snow goes maximum stupid and has to be bailed out by plot armor and questionable intervention after ridiculously bad storytelling. What was actually his plan... at any point... to capture a walker alive? If this is the hero of the story, they're doing a really shit job of making me want to see him succeed. Honestly, the dude needs to die before something worse happens to Dany or any of the other potentially competant leaders at his ridiculous expense.

Yes. 100% this. And not to mention some strange storytelling decisions such as, oh the Night King just javellined Viserion like nothing. Let's just all stare and look sad at the dragon dying instead of GETTING THE FUCK AWAY! And what, Benjen just shows up back again to give Jon a horse and die? Um... what?

Also holy shit do ravens and dragons end up teleporting these days .

[Vince, Pt. II]

I was actually totally ok with the Benjen cameo. Gets rid of the small loose end without simply never seeing him again. And the flaming Morningstar was pretty great.

[ISiddiqui]

Also all subtlety on this show is lost. They kept saying "dragons aren't invulnerable" and one dies and we all knew it was coming. So this episode they randomly hammer hard that Daenerys doesn't have a successor... so I'm betting she's dead by series end.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Radii

This is without question the worst "action oriented" GoT episode, and maybe the worst storytelling/decisionmaking of the entire series.

Completely agree with this.

Worst. Episode. Ever.

Edit: Jon did display some serious stupidity in this episode, but it showed a lot of foresight on his part to make sure they brought along several Redshirts to make sure no one important had to die.

[MrBug708]

I'm glad I'm not some of you where I can't just enjoy an episode. Thought it was great, don't need to sweat the small details, doesn't take away from the series in the slightest

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I'm glad I'm not some of you where I can't just enjoy an episode. Thought it was great, don't need to sweat the small details, doesn't take away from the series in the slightest

I had the same red shirts thought as above and agree the dragon thing was predictable, but thought the episode was great. One of the few episodes where it's harder to pretend maybe lots more time past between scenes given the crossover between Jon/Dany, but hey, how fast can a raven fly, anyway?

[thesloppy]

I truly have no idea how long they spent on that little island. Hours? Days? Weeks?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Radii

So I saw the episode early b/c of the HD leak, have been holding thoughts back til now. But they remain unchanged given additional time to think.

This is without question the worst "action oriented" GoT episode, and maybe the worst storytelling/decisionmaking of the entire series. The end results and where we will start the next episode... all fine. But the way we got there is just completely filled with confusion and is altogether infuriating.

This is the second time that stupid Jon Snow goes maximum stupid and has to be bailed out by plot armor and questionable intervention after ridiculously bad storytelling. What was actually his plan... at any point... to capture a walker alive? If this is the hero of the story, they're doing a really shit job of making me want to see him succeed. Honestly, the dude needs to die before something worse happens to Dany or any of the other potentially competant leaders at his ridiculous expense.


All of that said, the dragon death was freaking beautiful, that moment was just glorious and landed for me as hard as I imagine it was supposed to. And good call all those that predicted it

Normally, I give the show the benefit of the doubt and we have clashed before because we don't view things the same.

But I completely agree with your post. This episode annoyed me. I enjoyed many individual scenes, but the suspension of disbelief was just impossible.

--Thoros takes major internal injuries from a super bear and survives because Beric cauterized his wound? Even if we note he would indeed die of his wounds, it is ridiculous to think he could even walk after that, much less continue on for another day (at least). Even Leo Dicrapio was in utter disbelief. Thoros must have a tremendous amount of milk of the poppy in that ale bag.

--Redshirts, yes. Not in the least bit surprising. But an even more well-travelled trope reared its head--the invincible good guys. Hundreds, maybe thousands of the dead coming to attack you? No problem, they attack one or two at a time and give the name heroes the chance to fight them off or to be saved by another hero. Meanwhile, heaven forbid Ensign Smith should happen to fall in front of them. Swarm attacks aplenty there. And just in case it starts to look a little too unlikely, they toss a Tormund bone to the baddies. But don't freak out, ginger fans, he will get pulled to safety just in time (after taking several wounds that should have incapacitated him).

--Good to see Jon has learned the swim in deep water while armored thing from Ser Jaime. Maybe they teach a class on this when they're squires? At least Jon wasn't covered head to toe in plate and toting around a golden hand. Of course, Jaime didn't have to deal with near feeezing temperatures. Hypothermia is maybe not a thing in Westeros.

--I love me some Uncle Benjen. He might have been more useful earlier in the fight, though. I mean, the Children of the Forest are gone. The Three Eyed Raven is south of the Wall. So of course half dead Benjen is staying within sight of the army of the Night King, cuz, you know, he really only has one job left. But apparently he was making snow angels when the battle was going on. Didn't notice his nephew traipsing about doing stupid shit. That morningstar though.

--Ravens, dragons, time, etc. I'm shocked Euron and his fleet didn't rise up from the lake bottom to add to the confusion.

--Not a cliche, perhaps, but what an awkward end to the Danearys-Jon conversation. It was actually a really great scene--until it all went stupid, weird at the end. Similar to the end of half of my relationships, though, I'll give. Did Jon get friend-zoned too?

--Ice Dragon! And poor Viserion. Of course I loved that. It was wonderful to see, and I actually got a little emotional to see a dying Viserion falling back into the water. But, here, not for the fault of the creators of the show, but GOT conspiracy theorists and hackers (or some poor programming coordinator at HBO Spain) combined to reveal this tidbit in such a way that it was almost impossible to not know about it before watching the episode. And so the coolest thing to happen in the entire episode is pretty much sapped of almost all of its potential impact.

I did like the Winterfell scenes, particularly Maisie Williams' scene chewing. I might have gotten more actual enjoyment out of it, though, if she wasn't proving to out-creep her prophetic brother for family bragging rights. Her turning the knife around on handing it to Sansa might have been the most interesting thing to happen in the whole episode. Meanwhile, Sansa does stupid shit like go to Littlefinger for counsel, send Brienne away and sneak into her weird killer sister's room to have a look. Thank God for Arya.

I was so frustrated watching this and knowing it should all be so awesome, but felt so cheap with all its flaws.