Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Vegas Vic]

Texas A&M vs. the SEC

[Swaggs]

Word is leaking, through twitter, that the SEC voted 11-0 (one school was not present) in favor of inviting A&M.

Sounds like the next, and trickiest, step is for A&M's BOG or BOR to give their president permission to accept. Probably will be some major political hurdles during this step.

It also seems to be consensus that the SEC wants A&M's help to find the 14th member, so that it doesn't look like the SEC solicited anyone (presumably to help in a potential legal defense?), as they don't want to look like they destroyed a conference. This is presumably Missouri or Oklahoma.

[JonInMiddleGA]

LOL, looks like Twitter needs to recheck its sources.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...s-options-open
The Southeastern Conference is not extending an invitation to Texas A&M to become its 13th member, but isn't ruling out adding the Aggies in the future.

University of Florida president Dr. Bernie Machen said the conference's presidents and chancellors met on Sunday and "reaffirmed our satisfaction with the present 12 institutional alignment."

"We recognize, however, that future conditions may make it advantageous to expand the number of institutions in the league," Machen said. "We discussed criteria and process associated with expansion. No action was taken with respect to any institution including Texas A&M."

[bronconick]

Hahahahahaha.

Easily the funniest thing that could have happened. Have fun in Big XII-2 meetings, Aggies.

[Atocep]

It's sounding like the inability to decide on a 14th member could be the reason.

TAMU still walks away from this looking like a child throwing a temper tantrum to draw attention away from their big brother.

EDIT: I also think the SEC is in a situation where they have to say this. Until TAMU officially decides to apply for the SEC they don't have much else they can say.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Atocep

EDIT: I also think the SEC is in a situation where they have to say this. Until TAMU officially decides to apply for the SEC they don't have much else they can say.

That's what I was thinking, too. I mean, that AP source that is supposedly a higher up in the SEC said almost the opposite of everything the Florida President said, as long as it was anonymous. The SEC does seem to be operating as cautiously as possible in terms of not leaving themselves open for a lawsuit.

Still, it wouldn't shock me if nothing came of all of it either.

[DeToxRox]

I wonder if the SEC wants A&M to officially withdrawal from the Big 12 before extending an invite to avoid potential legal issues?

[DeToxRox]

RT @Matt_HayesSN: Source on "meeting" today: Conf call/w SEC attorneys and Machen. Released legal statement to protect the league.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

LOL, looks like Twitter needs to recheck its sources.

SEC doesn't extend invitation to Texas A&M, but leaves options open - ESPN
The Southeastern Conference is not extending an invitation to Texas A&M to become its 13th member, but isn't ruling out adding the Aggies in the future.

University of Florida president Dr. Bernie Machen said the conference's presidents and chancellors met on Sunday and "reaffirmed our satisfaction with the present 12 institutional alignment."

"We recognize, however, that future conditions may make it advantageous to expand the number of institutions in the league," Machen said. "We discussed criteria and process associated with expansion. No action was taken with respect to any institution including Texas A&M."

This is a pretty misleading article. There was no action today because they can't do anything until Texas A&M has applied to join the conference. If they said anything today without an official application (should be coming soon from A&M), the SEC would face tampering charges.

This statement from Machen is little more than the Big 12 'unity' statement that came out yesterday. There's nothing to say until something happens.

It also sounds like all ACC schools are out as a 14th option. The ACC move deadline for the one year wait is tomorrow. With the A&M situation not being resolved until tomorrow at the earliest, any ACC team that decides to move after tomorrow wouldn't be able to move until August 15, 2013. That won't work for the SEC if they accept A&M now. The SEC will look to the Big 12 for that 14th member if A&M commits this summer.

[Swaggs]

From what I can tell, SEC wants A&M or the Pac 12 to be the catalyst. For whatever reason, Slive doesn't want to be the one to fire the first shot.

It is fascinating, to me, to watch the territory war that is (potentially) going on. SEC into Texas (if they pass on A&M now, is Texas forever closed off to the SEC?). SEC into the Midwest (how does Jim Delany react to a team like Missouri, right in the Big Ten's footprint, joining the SEC?). Does the Pac 12 somehow sneak into Texas before the Big Ten or SEC? How does the Big 12 counter, if they lose teams (double down in Texas? dip their toe into Florida w/ a USF or UCF or both? Become more Southwestern/Western and try for potential-type schools like New Mexico, a Nevada school? Go basketball heavy with something like a Louisville/Memphis combo? Even try to reach into California with someone like Fresno State or San Jose State?)

Probably nothing anywhere near so exciting, but it is really interesting to watch unfold.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Here's an article that makes further mention of why the SEC did their grandstanding statement today.........

How ESPN Is Complicating Texas A&M to SEC Deal : Outkick The Coverage

[tarcone]

This is stupid.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

And now we officially have a bidding war on our hands.

Gottleibs latest:
UGA blocks GT,UF blocks FSU,USC blocks Clemson-Mizzou wants B10 if they leave B12

The SEC really only has one option for a 14th team. The options left after the above blocks are VA Tech, NC State, and Mizzou. Both VA Tech and NC State have to submit today or they won't move until 2013. Now the Big 10 is realizing that a prime option may be headed to the SEC and they don't want that to happen.

This is going to be a frenzy when it starts. One team after another from the Big 12 with three big conferences all picking at the bones. OU, OSU, and Mizzou all in pretty good positions at this point.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

And now we officially have a bidding war on our hands.



The SEC really only has one option for a 14th team. The options left after the above blocks are VA Tech, NC State, and Mizzou. Both VA Tech and NC State have to submit today or they won't move until 2013. Now the Big 10 is realizing that a prime option may be headed to the SEC and they don't want that to happen.

This is going to be a frenzy when it starts. One team after another from the Big 12 with three big conferences all picking at the bones.

This is a big part of why I don't agree with Jim's assessment. Once the first domino falls conferences are going to try and grab the best chips available so that they're not left picking at leftovers. Unless Texas and Notre Dame decide to get involved they'll stop at 14, but I think we're on the verge of some major movement over the next few months.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

This is a big part of why I don't agree with Jim's assessment. Once the first domino falls conferences are going to try and grab the best chips available so that they're not left picking at leftovers. Unless Texas and Notre Dame decide to get involved they'll stop at 14, but I think we're on the verge of some major movement over the next few months.

If both MU and A&M leave, it's going to be EXTREMELY difficult for Texas, errrr, the Big 12 to avoid having their ESPN TV contract voided. They'd have to add two teams before the end of August and it's hard to find two teams outside of North Texas and Stephen F. Austin that would be willing to jump on the Good Ship Bevo at this point. Things will fall in short order if those teams leave.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The SEC really only has one option for a 14th team. The options left after the above blocks are VA Tech, NC State, and Mizzou. Both VA Tech and NC State have to submit today or they won't move until 2013. Now the Big 10 is realizing that a prime option may be headed to the SEC and they don't want that to happen.

The "only" options? Why not WVU? Why not Louisville?

This is going to be a frenzy when it starts. One team after another from the Big 12 with three big conferences all picking at the bones. OU, OSU, and Mizzou all in pretty good positions at this point.

This is true. I feel bad for Kansas - I'd love to think their basketball program is worth enough to make them a target for the Pac-12 - but it seems football dollars rule all which leaves them hoping to join one of the eastern basketball-centric conferences.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

The "only" options? Why not WVU? Why not Louisville?

Louisville has already said they would 'politely decline' if asked, but the SEC already has a 'gentleman's agreement' that says they wouldn't invite a school from a member state, so Louisville likely won't get an invite anyway.

WVU certainly has a good program, but they don't have the economic advantages that Mizzou would bring to the table from a TV perspective.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Louisville has already said they would 'politely decline' if asked, but the SEC already has a 'gentleman's agreement' that says they wouldn't invite a school from a member state, so Louisville likely won't get an invite anyway.

WVU certainly has a good program, but they don't have the economic advantages that Mizzou would bring to the table from a TV perspective.

I agree the SEC would be more interested in Mizzou. But is Mizzou more interested in the SEC or the Big 10?

WVU done an excellent job selling itself over the past year and is in much better shape than it was in when the ACC expanded last time. Academics aren't the best, but are improving, and would be middle of the pack-ish in the SEC. Morgantown obviously is a tiny market, but WVU isn't limited to Morgantown. The school was 13th in merchandizing last year, has the #5 most watched game on ESPN, and the number #1 and #5 most watched games on ESPN 2.

I don't think WVU has much of a shot at the SEC unless things fall through with a few other teams. Most likely WVU ends up in the ACC when all is said and done, but it is nice to see the school has positioned and marketed itself better this time around.

Kind of took things away from what was being discussed, but after sweating things out last time the people around the program seem much more confident this time and it's great to see.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I agree the SEC would be more interested in Mizzou. But is Mizzou more interested in the SEC or the Big 10?

Definitely more interested in Big 10. You're right about that. I think after last year, Mizzou won't be as picky if a SEC offer comes through. But it's looking more and more like the Big 10 will toss an offer out if that SEC offer to Mizzou happens.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Louisville has already said they would 'politely decline' if asked, but the SEC already has a 'gentleman's agreement' that says they wouldn't invite a school from a member state, so Louisville likely won't get an invite anyway.

I thought Louisville would politely decline the Big 12. Did they say that about the SEC?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Louisville has already said they would 'politely decline' if asked, but the SEC already has a 'gentleman's agreement' that says they wouldn't invite a school from a member state, so Louisville likely won't get an invite anyway.

I can't imagine a scenario where Louisville would turn down SEC money. Regarding the "gentleman's agreement", there's word that Kentucky isn't nearly as paranoid about encroachment as the other states.

WVU certainly has a good program, but they don't have the economic advantages that Mizzou would bring to the table from a TV perspective.

Perhaps - we'd have to see the TV ratings to really know for sure.

One major advantage WVU would have is that no team in the SEC would have to change divisions if A&M is the other team added.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I can't imagine a scenario where Louisville would turn down SEC money. Regarding the "gentleman's agreement", there's word that Kentucky isn't nearly as paranoid about encroachment as the other states.

Even if we assume that to be correct, Mizzou has a stronger athletic program, especially when using both revenue sports as the measure. I'm sure Louisville would love to sneak into a bigger conference, but football is king and their facilities in that regard just aren't at a BCS level yet.

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Perhaps - we'd have to see the TV ratings to really know for sure.

One major advantage WVU would have is that no team in the SEC would have to change divisions if A&M is the other team added.

Missouri and West Virginia are very similar in that they're a flagship school that pretty much has the state to themselves. As far as TV sets go, I'd be shocked even given the fan loyalty of WVU that they could come even remotely close given the two large media markets that Mizzou has in-state.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

As far as TV sets go, I'd be shocked even given the fan loyalty of WVU that they could come even remotely close given the two large media markets that Mizzou has in-state.

Eh, just be careful not to overestimate the importance of markets #21 and #32.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Even if we assume that to be correct, Mizzou has a stronger athletic program, especially when using both revenue sports as the measure. I'm sure Louisville would love to sneak into a bigger conference, but football is king and their facilities in that regard just aren't at a BCS level yet.

I don't think Louisville would get the nod over Missouri, but this post is wildly off-base.

Which Football and Basketball Programs Produce the Largest Profits? «

University of Louisville (Football)

$15,537,276 (revenue)

$12,222,307 (expenses)

$3,314,969 (profits)


University of Louisville (Basketball)

$25,890,003

$9,089,769

$16,800,234



University of Missouri (Football)

$25,378,066

$13,759,649

$11,618,417



University of Missouri (Basketball)

$9,540,265

$5,345,179

$4,195,086

As we can see, Louisville's "revenue sports" generated considerably more profit than Missouri's revenue sports (this despite the Big East's horrendous football TV contract that was signed after the ACC raid AND Louisville undergoing major facility upgrades to their football stadium and building a new basketball arena).

On top of that, I think it is a tremendous stretch to call Missouri's programs stronger. Louisville's basketball program is miles ahead of Missouri's, by any measure. Football-wise, it is closer, but Louisville has actually competed in and won a BCS game and won conference championships in the recent past. Missouri has been consistently good over the past several years, while Louisville has been inconsistent, as they have reached higher levels while also suffering through some awful years (the Kragthorpe years). I can see an argument made for either team's recent history to be the more desirable fo the two (unlike their basketball counterparts).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I can see an argument made for either team's recent history to be the more desirable of the two (unlike their basketball counterparts).

Beyond that, there's the simple reality that Louisville can be considered somewhat Southern (especially if they're entry gets UK's blessing). I don't know any SEC loyalists who would be thrilled with them joining but at least it might be somehow justified.

Honestly, I believe existing fan bases (including most notably, contributing alumni) would prefer Louisville to A&M, much less Missouri.

[Swaggs]

If the SEC started floating rumors about adding East Carolina, I wonder if they could leverage NC State into play?

[Wolfpack]

I don't really know how "in-play" NC State is, but there is a large contingent, at least on the internet (and we know how much that means) that is hopeful that an SEC invite is coming. The only reason seems to be the same one as A&M's--to get away from the dominant program in the conference who seems to have all power and control over affairs in the league. (You have no idea the hate that John Swofford gets simply because he was previously AD at Carolina before becoming ACC commissioner.) The really deluded ones seem to think that the SEC would be stupid to not invite us, even if it's only a "process of elimination" rationalization typically along the lines of, "sure UNC's the bigger name, but they're already the big fish and they couldn't handle not being the center of attention anymore, and since North Carolina's got a big population and it doesn't have a school in the league, there's no chance they're inviting Duke or Wake, so that leaves us!"

*sigh* What's mildly disturbing is there is something of a point to all this. Last year, I thought the ACC was reasonably sturdy and could withstand outside threats, but I'm not as sure about that this time around. It's going to be any port in a storm and right now I'm hoping State is in one of the bigger ones after it all blows over.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I can't imagine a scenario where Louisville would turn down SEC money. Regarding the "gentleman's agreement", there's word that Kentucky isn't nearly as paranoid about encroachment as the other states.

If Louisville joins the SEC, that basketball matchup becomes pretty big and must watch with Kentucky

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Louisville has already said they would 'politely decline' if asked, but the SEC already has a 'gentleman's agreement' that says they wouldn't invite a school from a member state, so Louisville likely won't get an invite anyway.

WVU certainly has a good program, but they don't have the economic advantages that Mizzou would bring to the table from a TV perspective.

a few points..no team can block...i takes a majority.
Point 2. The SEC doesnt look at TV markets....the thought is there in only 1 market for the SEC and that is the national college football market.
I can say with 100% certainty that 24 hours ago (ok 28 to be 100%) Clemson had a written executable offer to become the 13TH school....we declined much to my chagrin....

[Ksyrup]

I thought the gentlemens' agreement extended to UK - that gives the UK/UF/UGA/USC voting block the guaranteed 4 votes it needs to keep a team from being accepted. All they need is 9 votes, so the other 3 voting together doesn't necessarily change anything unless 1 other team votes with them. And if that's the case, why is Louisville any more valid a choice than FSU or Clemson? Or will UK just get kicked the curb when push comes to shove?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

a few points..no team can block...i takes a majority.

3/4 vote to accept. Need 4 blocking votes.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

(especially if they're entry gets UK's blessing)

I don't know much about UK's situation, but I would be shocked if they would be OK with it, at least from the football standpoint (and that's what's driving this whole to begin with). My perception is that Joker Phillips is hanging on by a thread, barely able to tread water to keep Brooks' bowl streak alilve, while Louisville has a great young coach and a lot of momentum. Joker's only saving grace is the low expectations of the fan base, but even that is a bit different thanks to the recent good seasons they've had. I know football doesn't matter that much here, but I'd think they would be crazy to allow UL in.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't know much about UK's situation, but I would be shocked if they would be OK with it, at least from the football standpoint (and that's what's driving this whole to begin with).

{shrug} I've got no insight on what UK is thinking about Louisville beyond what I've read repeatedly for several days. Might be right, might be wrong, but that's what I keep seeing out there.

Didn't the legislature step in a few years ago & mandate that the two teams play each other in basketball? Seems like this might be a situation where there could be political pressure applied to prevent UK from blocking a hypothetical L'ville invite. At least seems plausible, no clue whether that is/isn't the case.

[Ksyrup]

I guess it's possible, I really don't know much about how politics plays into sports here. All I know is this state is 95% UK, and the only real Louisville support comes from a small circle around Jefferson County.

[Ksyrup]

This is going to blow up every conference in America!


K-State Announces Ground-Breaking Launch of K-StateHD.TV
Digital HD network debuts August 30 with K-State VB match

[timmynausea]

According to Chip Brown, A&M to the SEC will be announced within 21 days.

Orangebloods.com - Sources: A&M will be announced in SEC in 21 days

[Ksyrup]

The fact that the TAMU president is going to appear before the committee not to talk about the issues with staying in the Big 12 but to talk about the benefits of joining the SEC, is hilarious. I still thinnk this could end up not happening if #14 isn't agreed upon, but this whole thing seems pretty transparent to me, and I was shocked to see so many people in the media read into the SEC statement yesterday that TAMU was "rejected."

[Toddzilla]

I can say with 100% certainty that no matter how any of this plays out
Virginia Tech will not be in the same league as Louisville.

EVER.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Virginia Tech will not be in the same league as Louisville.

EVER.

Oh, I don't think Louisville is THAT much better than VT.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Oh, I don't think Louisville is THAT much better than VT.

LOL, well played.

[Toddzilla]

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I can say with 100% certainty that no matter how any of this plays out
Virginia Tech will not be in the same league as Louisville.

EVER.

Unless we switch to a tournament style playoff, then VT is in trouble and Frank Beamer will be on every radio talk show complaining about how they deserved a berth in the playoffs

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FWIW........

Greg Swaim:

#Mizzou brass very quiet, but two sources who follow MU tell me they believe Tigers will join #Aggies in #SEC.

[Ksyrup]

It makes sense if all the likely ACC targets have the rumored impediments. One of the main reasons they've been far down the list is simple geography, I think.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FWIW........

I cant remember your stance on Greg. Is he good right now?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I cant remember your stance on Greg. Is he good right now?

There's nothing more exciting for all the other posters than when you turn a fun discussion into an interrogation of MBBF. I'm sure they're thrilled you're doing it again in this thread. You do the detective work and let us know.

[MrBug708]

I take it he's good again

[MJ4H]

It's even more exciting than when you speak for everyone.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

There's nothing more exciting for all the other posters than when you turn a fun discussion into an interrogation of MBBF. I'm sure they're thrilled you're doing it again in this thread. You do the detective work and let us know.

Personally, I'm thrilled.

Props on the 3rd person use. "MBBF is getting upset!"

[MrBug708]

Expansion intrigue is Scott's comfort zone - Pac-12 Blog - ESPN

Which is why I'm betting Scott is perfectly comfortable with these developments (or temporary non-developments). He wanted a Pac-16 in the first place. He's been on record for a long time espousing the likelihood of "super conferences." This is his comfort zone.