2010-11 Hot Stove League Thread - Grienke is a Baller

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I dont think its a terrible move. I just dont know that they are close enough that this is a move that puts them over the top. If he isnt going to put them over the top he is just blocking the way for a younger/cheaper player.


Are they going to be able to still fill their other needs? Weak pen, starting pitching depth, shortstop. They just seem to be getting older each year and not really better.

I don't see this as putting them over the top either, but it is nice to see that ownership (Illitch) is keen on spending money to improve the team. Whether it actually improves them or not is another argument.

[JS19]

New York Yankees to Derek Jeter: Test market if offer not OK - ESPN New York

Good for the Yanks for taking a stand on this Jeter nonsense. For whatever reason, this is really getting under my skin... this whole "I'm the golden child, give me whatever the hell i want" crap. I know Jeter never said anything like that, but perception is reality, and his agent hasn't done a great job, in my opinion, and the media is starting to paint him this way. The Yanks owe him nothing. They had a great run for 15 or whatever years... there comes a time you have to move on. It's not as though the Yankees are gonna fall apart without Jeter, they'll pick up right where they left off.

[Ksyrup]

I think he's probably trying to reconcile his place in Yankees history with ARod's, and the fact that ARod will be making $25M a year long after he's worth paying that kind of money, while he's being told to think about his market value. I think it's hard for him to reconcile the two, given who he is and who ARod is. Fact is, ARod's deal was a mistake, and Jeter's gonna get screwed (by Yankees standards, anyway).

Jeter got SS, ARod got the money.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by JS19

New York Yankees to Derek Jeter: Test market if offer not OK - ESPN New York

Good for the Yanks for taking a stand on this Jeter nonsense. For whatever reason, this is really getting under my skin... this whole "I'm the golden child, give me whatever the hell i want" crap. I know Jeter never said anything like that, but perception is reality, and his agent hasn't done a great job, in my opinion, and the media is starting to paint him this way. The Yanks owe him nothing. They had a great run for 15 or whatever years... there comes a time you have to move on. It's not as though the Yankees are gonna fall apart without Jeter, they'll pick up right where they left off.

+1

[DaddyTorgo]

Count me as glad that VMart won't be coming back to Boston for that money. He was going to end up at 1B anyways, or DHing, and he doesn't hit for enough power to do either, particularly when you have the spectre of an AGon or something else out there who should be DH or 1B.

Defensively he was subpar at catcher, and I'm of the school that I'd rather give up a little offense at catcher to have a better game-caller.

I don't want to see Crawford on the Sox either...I don't think he's an answer to any of their problems and he's likely to be WAY overpaid. See him as the Tori Hunter heir-apparent in Anaheim though, so that's okay. Werth...I dunno.

Not really nuts about any of the FA options to be honest.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Count me as glad that VMart won't be coming back to Boston for that money. He was going to end up at 1B anyways, or DHing, and he doesn't hit for enough power to do either, particularly when you have the spectre of an AGon or something else out there who should be DH or 1B.

Defensively he was subpar at catcher, and I'm of the school that I'd rather give up a little offense at catcher to have a better game-caller.

I don't want to see Crawford on the Sox either...I don't think he's an answer to any of their problems and he's likely to be WAY overpaid. See him as the Tori Hunter heir-apparent in Anaheim though, so that's okay. Werth...I dunno.

Not really nuts about any of the FA options to be honest.

Jeter looks to be available.

[Ksyrup]

I'm sure the Mets would be happy to hand back Jason Bay!

[JS19]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm sure the Mets would be happy to hand back Jason Bay!

yes please

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

$11M per year...so much for being able to spend any cash in attempts to obtain Crawford.

Although I wanted them to go after Crawford as much as anyone, I think everyone knew they weren't going to. I'm totally ok with this signing. At two years even if he Rowands it it's not going to hurt that much. All the Giants need is for him to perform at his career averages, and the deal is worth it.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by JS19

New York Yankees to Derek Jeter: Test market if offer not OK - ESPN New York

Good for the Yanks for taking a stand on this Jeter nonsense. For whatever reason, this is really getting under my skin... this whole "I'm the golden child, give me whatever the hell i want" crap. I know Jeter never said anything like that, but perception is reality, and his agent hasn't done a great job, in my opinion, and the media is starting to paint him this way. The Yanks owe him nothing. They had a great run for 15 or whatever years... there comes a time you have to move on. It's not as though the Yankees are gonna fall apart without Jeter, they'll pick up right where they left off.

It's funny that the Yankees have taken advantage of the Jeter personality of not going to the press too much. It's the team pushing what Jeter is supposedly saying, not Jeter... it's the Yankees pushing that Jeter wants more money and more years, not Jeter. When his agent said he was baffled, it was about the Steinbrenners (and the resident douche Randy Levine) making everything public before negotiations even started. The idea that negotiations would be messy started with Hank Steinbrenner going on Michael Kaye's (the Yankee plant) show before they had even talked to Jeter. In fact, I've heard that the offer was made public before it was even told to Jeter.

A lot of Yankees fans and the media are being suckered by the Steinbrenners, who are continuing the George S. mantra of always being on the back sports page at any cost.

I also wonder if this is kind of payback by the local media for all of the times that Jeter wouldn't give any juicy quotes.

I'm not saying that Jeter is a golden boy entitled to whatever he wants, just that the Yankees organization is being classless about it. Then again, what do you expect of a team that was going to make Bernie Williams earn a roster spot and didn't bother to even call Andy Pettitte the year he went to the Astros.

And I say this as a Yankees fan.

[Greyroofoo]

I really wanna see Jeter snagged by Boston

[Bad-example]

Although I wanted them to go after Crawford as much as anyone, I think everyone knew they weren't going to. I'm totally ok with this signing. At two years even if he Rowands it it's not going to hurt that much. All the Giants need is for him to perform at his career averages, and the deal is worth it.

Agreed. A fair deal that reportedly was offered by another club and matched by the Giants. Now they just need to address the SS position. I hope Uribe returns but he may end up being too expensive.

[BishopMVP]

Derek Jeter has been offered 3 years and 45 million by the Yankees. I legitimately don't think he'd get more than 2/16 (2/20 or a 3rd year option at most) on the open market. I actually have generally respected Jeter over the years, but if he needs his balls tickled beyond that gift of an offer...

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

I really wanna see Jeter snagged by Boston

Mariano would better fit their needs. I'm sure they could flip Papelbon.

[stevew]

What's the Yankees backup plan for SS? Romine/Montero to a 3rd team plus young arms for Hanley?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Jon

It's funny that the Yankees have taken advantage of the Jeter personality of not going to the press too much. It's the team pushing what Jeter is supposedly saying, not Jeter... it's the Yankees pushing that Jeter wants more money and more years, not Jeter. When his agent said he was baffled, it was about the Steinbrenners (and the resident douche Randy Levine) making everything public before negotiations even started. The idea that negotiations would be messy started with Hank Steinbrenner going on Michael Kaye's (the Yankee plant) show before they had even talked to Jeter. In fact, I've heard that the offer was made public before it was even told to Jeter.

A lot of Yankees fans and the media are being suckered by the Steinbrenners, who are continuing the George S. mantra of always being on the back sports page at any cost.

I also wonder if this is kind of payback by the local media for all of the times that Jeter wouldn't give any juicy quotes.

I'm not saying that Jeter is a golden boy entitled to whatever he wants, just that the Yankees organization is being classless about it. Then again, what do you expect of a team that was going to make Bernie Williams earn a roster spot and didn't bother to even call Andy Pettitte the year he went to the Astros.

And I say this as a Yankees fan.

Not sure I agree with this. I have always respected Jeter for being a classy, stays out of trouble kinda guy. However, he has made over $200 million dollars in his Yankee career, so I would say he was amply paid for his services. His past performance should not give him a lifetime pass to $20 million/year contracts regardless of how pisspoor he plays. Is his career over yet? I don't believe so, but he is most definitely on the downside and it isn't going to get better with age.

Regarding the Steinbrenners, I see them doing this because they want the upper hand in both the negotiations and the press. If they come right out and tell everyone what they are doing and why, there is little left in doubt when Jeter rejects the offer. They have essentially removed the "he said, she said" scenario from this equation. I am no fan of the Steinbrenners, but they do care about their team and are willing to put money into it to be successful. But they aren't stupid (at least financially) and they know a sinking ship when they see it (Jeter), and hopefully they have learned from that terrible ARod contract, amongst others.

Oh, and I loved Bernie Williams but c'mon....he was not a good player his last season or two of his career, and they did the right thing by not just giving him a roster spot.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Not sure I agree with this. I have always respected Jeter for being a classy, stays out of trouble kinda guy. However, he has made over $200 million dollars in his Yankee career, so I would say he was amply paid for his services. His past performance should not give him a lifetime pass to $20 million/year contracts regardless of how pisspoor he plays. Is his career over yet? I don't believe so, but he is most definitely on the downside and it isn't going to get better with age.

Regarding the Steinbrenners, I see them doing this because they want the upper hand in both the negotiations and the press. If they come right out and tell everyone what they are doing and why, there is little left in doubt when Jeter rejects the offer. They have essentially removed the "he said, she said" scenario from this equation. I am no fan of the Steinbrenners, but they do care about their team and are willing to put money into it to be successful. But they aren't stupid (at least financially) and they know a sinking ship when they see it (Jeter), and hopefully they have learned from that terrible ARod contract, amongst others.

Oh, and I loved Bernie Williams but c'mon....he was not a good player his last season or two of his career, and they did the right thing by not just giving him a roster spot.

I'm not talking about the offer, though, I'm talking about how they're going about it. I absolutely agree with you that they're doing it to get the upper hand, but it's still classless. They made the offer public before they offered it to Jeter. The Yankees have no need to do this because people would have responded anyway to a poor offer once it came out that he turned it down.

As for Bernie, I think most people agreed that he had one year left, at least, and he was willing to come off the bench. He was even willing to take a pay cut. Again, classless for an organization that buys its own hype.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Defensively he was subpar at catcher, and I'm of the school that I'd rather give up a little offense at catcher to have a better game-caller.

Gerald Laird's available.

Don't know what I think of this deal. Just overwhelmingly happy that I never have to see Laird "bat" again.

[Ksyrup]

If the Yankees and Jeter ar that far apart and the Yankees knew this was goign to happen, then what they are doing is smart. They understand how much Jeter is loved and they are openly explaining their position so fans will side with them. They are 100% correct in everything they've said. Obviously something gave them the indication early on that they would be $30-50M apart in negotiations. They don't intend to bridge that gap (or are playing an awfully good game of poker to get to that position).

Jeter made nearly $20M a year for 10 years. So, he wasn't underpaid. He didn't take a "hometown" discount - that deal was as good or better for him as it was for the team. He's now no longer the player he used to be, and he's playing an important position at which he's sucked and will continue to suck, with the added bonus of apparently having too much pride to allow himself to be moved despite his deficiencies. And plus, the Yankees have gathered so many aging players that there is now a line forming 4 or 5-deep at the DH position, which is Jeter's next obvious move. So they CAN'T go more than 3 years, and I suspect Cashman would only go 2 year if this was an OOTP negotiation.

Given all that, and Jeter's apparent insistence that he be paid for being "the modern Babe Ruth," I fully understand the Yankees open negotiations about this, because on every point, they are correct. And as Rob Neyer points out, if Jeter REALLY wants to follow in Babe Ruth's footsteps...well, Ruth got kicked to the curb pretty quickly, and that was after taking two 30% paycuts the years before the Yankees dumped him. So be careful what you wish for.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

If the Yankees and Jeter ar that far apart and the Yankees knew this was goign to happen, then what they are doing is smart. They understand how much Jeter is loved and they are openly explaining their position so fans will side with them. They are 100% correct in everything they've said. Obviously something gave them the indication early on that they would be $30-50M apart in negotiations. They don't intend to bridge that gap (or are playing an awfully good game of poker to get to that position).

Jeter made nearly $20M a year for 10 years. So, he wasn't underpaid. He didn't take a "hometown" discount - that deal was as good or better for him as it was for the team. He's now no longer the player he used to be, and he's playing an important position at which he's sucked and will continue to suck, with the added bonus of apparently having too much pride to allow himself to be moved despite his deficiencies. And plus, the Yankees have gathered so many aging players that there is now a line forming 4 or 5-deep at the DH position, which is Jeter's next obvious move. So they CAN'T go more than 3 years, and I suspect Cashman would only go 2 year if this was an OOTP negotiation.

Given all that, and Jeter's apparent insistence that he be paid for being "the modern Babe Ruth," I fully understand the Yankees open negotiations about this, because on every point, they are correct. And as Rob Neyer points out, if Jeter REALLY wants to follow in Babe Ruth's footsteps...well, Ruth got kicked to the curb pretty quickly, and that was after taking two 30% paycuts the years before the Yankees dumped him. So be careful what you wish for.

We don't know if Jeter is insisting on being paid like a modern day Babe Ruth. That's not what Casey Close said. This idea that he's asking for too much is based on statements made by the Yankees leadership--who we know have a tendency to lie publicly about what's been said privately. (I also think Neyer's comparison of a reserve clause era with a free agency era player is a little off).

That having been said, I think the Yankees are smart to create a narrative that is being taken as fact by everyone. Any response by Jeter paints him in a bad light--either he destroys his reputation of keeping everything close to the vest or he lets them drive the story that he's just another greedy player. I'm amazed how quickly people who complain about the Yankees organization are know defending it.

I also find it quite humorous that the Yankees are now saying it's a baseball decision when it involves a player they propped up as "the golden boy." It's not simply a baseball decision. They marketed him as the "modern day Babe Ruth," and whatever hyperbole you want to place here. They're trying to destroy what they manufactured before he gets the upper hand in the media. Smart move, yes. Classless, yes.

[Ksyrup]

Considering what Derek Jeter is worth on the open market, a 3 year, $45M salary is paying for both his on and off-field contributions to the team. Clearly.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Jon

We don't know if Jeter is insisting on being paid like a modern day Babe Ruth. That's not what Casey Close said.

And that's not what I said. I said he wants to be paid like he's Babe Ruth - meaning, paid extra for being the face of the franchise. What other reason would his agent bring Ruth's name into the equation, if not to suggest his client is worth more than just his on-field contributions? And anyway, like I said, $45M IS paying him as if he's the modern Babe Ruth.

[stevew]

How close are the Nats to signing Jayson Werth and Cliff Lee.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

And that's not what I said. I said he wants to be paid like he's Babe Ruth - meaning, paid extra for being the face of the franchise. What other reason would his agent bring Ruth's name into the equation, if not to suggest his client is worth more than just his on-field contributions? And anyway, like I said, $45M IS paying him as if he's the modern Babe Ruth.

That's what I thought you meant, I didn't mean to imply that you thought he wanted Babe Ruth performance money.

And, frankly, I don't blame Jeter (if that's what he's doing, we don't know--I find it interesting the media is drinking up the Yankee comments regarding Jeter as if it was Jeter himself saying it). The Yankees pushed him to Babe Ruth status, treated him that way, wanted him to speak for the franchise, etc.

To me, there is a distinction between Joey Votto in Cincinnati and Derek Jeter in New York. NY contracts involve more than performance -- there's additional scrutiny by the media, the fans, and ownership. I find it incredulous that the same ownership group that paid Burnett and Arod are now crying frugality,and purportedly have offered Cliff Lee 6 years at 25 million per year.. Then again, it's not inconsistent with the Yankee way--treat potential free agents better than homegrown talent.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Jon

That's what I thought you meant, I didn't mean to imply that you thought he wanted Babe Ruth performance money.

And, frankly, I don't blame Jeter (if that's what he's doing, we don't know--I find it interesting the media is drinking up the Yankee comments regarding Jeter as if it was Jeter himself saying it). The Yankees pushed him to Babe Ruth status, treated him that way, wanted him to speak for the franchise, etc.

To me, there is a distinction between Joey Votto in Cincinnati and Derek Jeter in New York. NY contracts involve more than performance -- there's additional scrutiny by the media, the fans, and ownership. I find it incredulous that the same ownership group that paid Burnett and Arod are now crying frugality,and purportedly have offered Cliff Lee 6 years at 25 million per year.. Then again, it's not inconsistent with the Yankee way--treat potential free agents better than homegrown talent.

But aren't they offering to pay him way, way, way more than his age/production would justify? I'd see your point if they were offering Marco Scuturo money, but it seems like their offer includes all those extras you're talking about - the scrutiny, face of the franchise stuff.

They're not exactly crying frugality. Their offer to Jeter, releative to his performance, would be the equivalent of offering Lee maybe $35 million/year.

They're the Yankees, but there's still gotta be a limit somewhere.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Jon

I find it incredulous that the same ownership group that paid Burnett and Arod are now crying frugality,and purportedly have offered Cliff Lee 6 years at 25 million per year.. Then again, it's not inconsistent with the Yankee way--treat potential free agents better than homegrown talent.

You don't see the big difference? With ARod and Burnett, they were (over)paying for anticipated/presumed future performance (and with ARod, the mistaken belief his milestone HRs would be worth something). Same with Cliff Lee. he's got (presumably) several years of All-Star performance left in him. With Jeter, his future performance over 3 years looks to be more in the range of a $6-8M player, and possibly less if his performance nosedives further (which could happen, and they have to factor that in).

So, the extra money they are giving him per year is the intangible stuff - his leadership, his quest for 3,000 hits, etc. The biggest elephant in the room that the Yankees have not specifically mentioned is the fact that he can't play SS anymore, and they are taking a hit on the field by ceding the position to him for 3 more years. And that's definitely why they won't/can't offer him more than 3 years. ARod may need to DH in 3 years. Also, that team is still a playoff team without him - intangibles or not. They didn't need him to hit like the old Jeter this year to win 95+ games. If he puts up another average OPS year, it won't fundamentally change the team's performance one way or the other - which means if they subbed him with a AAA SS, they wouldn't suffer much at all.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by stevew

How close are the Nats to signing Jayson Werth and Cliff Lee.

I wish I knew. I would just be happy if they signed one of the top 5 free agent pitchers, an OFer and figure out 1B.

[Jon]

I'm not really disagreeing with you about the substance of the offer. I'm disagreeing with the way the Yankees are handling it. Casey Close has made 2 comments about the Yankees--both about the negotiation strategy. We haven't heard about the actual offer, except for some public negotiation by the Yankees. Jeter has not expressed anything publicly about the alleged offer (which supposedly was reported to the media even before it was formally made to Jeter), yet the media is excoriating him for being greedy and holding out for an unreasonable offer. It's pretty clear to me that the local media and some of those on ESPN are reporting planted stories from the Yankees as if it's Jeter making the statements.

As for Cliff Lee, he will be 38 years old if the 6 year deal is done. Anyone offering more than 5 would be insane. (It's going to happen, and it will be the Yankees).

[Ksyrup]

But if they got, say, 4 years of All-Star performance, they would consider that deal worth it. I don't think they are expecting even 2009 Jeter numbers at any time during the next 3 years.

[jbergey22]

Jeter should plant a story that Boston is offering him 4yrs/100 million.

Its kind of funny that they are trashing each other in the papers like this. Everyone knows they are going to reach a compromise in that 4 yr/65-70 mil range with the final year being a mutual option.

[molson]

I think the fact that the Red Sox couldn't even credibly pretend that they're interested in Jeter, really at any price level, highlights the absuridity of Jeter's demands.

[Ksyrup]

If the Yankees cave and give a 4th year, then they are stupid for the public stuff they are doing now. The only way the ends justifies the means is if they are deadset on sticking to 3 years, maybe give a little on the money ($50-55M range) and be done with it. Otherwise, they are shooting themselves in the foot. Hankenstein I can understand being an idiot, but Cashman's not that stupid. This is all part of a plan.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Jon

I'm not really disagreeing with you about the substance of the offer. I'm disagreeing with the way the Yankees are handling it. Casey Close has made 2 comments about the Yankees--both about the negotiation strategy. We haven't heard about the actual offer, except for some public negotiation by the Yankees. Jeter has not expressed anything publicly about the alleged offer (which supposedly was reported to the media even before it was formally made to Jeter), yet the media is excoriating him for being greedy and holding out for an unreasonable offer. It's pretty clear to me that the local media and some of those on ESPN are reporting planted stories from the Yankees as if it's Jeter making the statements.

As for Cliff Lee, he will be 38 years old if the 6 year deal is done. Anyone offering more than 5 would be insane. (It's going to happen, and it will be the Yankees).

It appears that you are still envisioning the Jeter of yesteryear. The Yankees have always paid players for what they thought the player was worth at the time (i.e., Carl Pavano, A.J. Burnett, Alex Rodriguez, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Jason Giambi, etc....) and this situation is no different. The Steinbrenners, Levine, and Cashman all see that Jeter is in a rapid decline. He is no longer the player he once was. From your earlier posts, you seem to agree with this assessment. Thus, I am having a difficult time understanding what your real argument is here. You say you don't like how Yankees management is treating Jeter. Well, how should they be treating him? Should he get a red carpet event into Yankee stadium to sign a new 12 year contract for $200 million? Yankees brass is taking this bull by the horns, so to speak, and being aggressive with both Jeter and the media. As kysrup said earlier, they are openly explaining their position in order to avoid any misconceptions later on during negotiations.

There is no way Jeter is worth what Jeter wants, and everyone but apparently Jeter knows this. Yankee management is handling this situation almost flawlessly, because now Jeter either accepts the offer or he becomes a free agent. He will not get anywhere near $15 million/year on the open market, and him entering free agency portrays him as being just another greedy pro athlete. Which, in fact, he probably is. Society has turned these guys into primadonnas, I am sure Jeter is no different. He has just done a better job hiding it.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

If the Yankees cave and give a 4th year, then they are stupid for the public stuff they are doing now. The only way the ends justifies the means is if they are deadset on sticking to 3 years, maybe give a little on the money ($50-55M range) and be done with it. Otherwise, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Hankenstein I can understand being an idiot, but Cashman's not that stupid. This is all part of a plan.

I spit out my coffee at this.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Society has turned these guys into primadonnas, I am sure Jeter is no different. He has just done a better job hiding it.

I think the Yankees have helped him hide it.

Jeter has benefited from the Yankees far more than the Yankees have benefited from Jeter. The Yankees could have won anyway, but where else was Jeter going to make $183 million and win multiple world series?

[Ksyrup]

[Jon]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Jeter should plant a story that Boston is offering him 4yrs/100 million.

Its kind of funny that they are trashing each other in the papers like this. Everyone knows they are going to reach a compromise in that 4 yr/65-70 mil range with the final year being a mutual option.

That's my point---there is no trashing each other in the papers. It's Jeter's agent making two comments about the negotiation strategy of the Yankees and the Yankees making comments every day about negotiations. The Yankees organization is arguing becuase they can, not because they need to. It's the Yankees doing the trashing and making Jeter look like he's doing it.

And, I think you're right on the final outcome.

[Young Drachma]

I do wish someone would overpay for Jeter, but only because I want to see what it'd look like. I realize this isn't going to happen, but it'd be fun to talk about for a bit.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

It appears that you are still envisioning the Jeter of yesteryear. The Yankees have always paid players for what they thought the player was worth at the time (i.e., Carl Pavano, A.J. Burnett, Alex Rodriguez, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Jason Giambi, etc....) and this situation is no different. The Steinbrenners, Levine, and Cashman all see that Jeter is in a rapid decline. He is no longer the player he once was. From your earlier posts, you seem to agree with this assessment. Thus, I am having a difficult time understanding what your real argument is here. You say you don't like how Yankees management is treating Jeter. Well, how should they be treating him? Should he get a red carpet event into Yankee stadium to sign a new 12 year contract for $200 million? Yankees brass is taking this bull by the horns, so to speak, and being aggressive with both Jeter and the media. As kysrup said earlier, they are openly explaining their position in order to avoid any misconceptions later on during negotiations.

There is no way Jeter is worth what Jeter wants, and everyone but apparently Jeter knows this. Yankee management is handling this situation almost flawlessly, because now Jeter either accepts the offer or he becomes a free agent. He will not get anywhere near $15 million/year on the open market, and him entering free agency portrays him as being just another greedy pro athlete. Which, in fact, he probably is. Society has turned these guys into primadonnas, I am sure Jeter is no different. He has just done a better job hiding it.

No, I'm more bothered by the classless way the Yankees are handling the negotiations. We don't know what Jeter thinks he's worth becuase he hasn't publicly stated it. We only know the propoganda that the Yankees organization has pushed on a daily basis in their attempt to remain the top sports story in the New York media. This whole thing has bumped the bigger story----the Mets new manager.

My grip is less the substance of the offer, assuming it's true, versus the process of negotiating. It's bitter because the Yankees made it so--as soon as I heard Steinbrenner said that "it could get messy," I knew that it would be messy because that's how the Yankees would carry themselves publicly. As Hal Steinbrenner has said today--"I'm not my father." I think their offer makes sense, but I think publicly they are coming across as petty.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Jon

No, I'm more bothered by the classless way the Yankees are handling the negotiations. We don't know what Jeter thinks he's worth becuase he hasn't publicly stated it.

Well, he didn't accept the 3/$45 million deal. So I am going out on a limb that he wants more than that. Which brings me back to my previous posts as to how the Yankees are handling this. Perhaps you are reading too much into what the Yanks are saying and not enough into what Jeter is not saying?

[Logan]

Kind of funny that as a Met fan, I'm the only one who follows what Jon is saying. I haven't seen a single post where he feels that they haven't offered him enough money.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Logan

Kind of funny that as a Met fan, I'm the only one who follows what Jon is saying. I haven't seen a single post where he feels that they haven't offered him enough money.

I follow, I'm just hoping if I ignore it the Jeter talk will die.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Well, he didn't accept the 3/$45 million deal. So I am going out on a limb that he wants more than that. Which brings me back to my previous posts as to how the Yankees are handling this. Perhaps you are reading too much into what the Yanks are saying and not enough into what Jeter is not saying?

We think he didn't accept it, because the Yankees implied that he didn't. We have Randy Levine, Hal and Hank Steinbrenner, and (after yesterday) Brian Cashman making public statements about it daily. Again, Jeter (as he's always done) has not made a public statement about the offer except to say that the negotiating strategy is bizaare and they should remember who theyr'e dealing with. Why? Because he doesn't make public statements of that nature. The Yankees are taking advantage of that fact to overplay their leverage. And the media and some of the fans are buying the story--hook, line, and sinker.

Jeter is probably on his private island somewhere with Minka Kelly.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Jon

And the media and some of the fans are buying the story--hook, line, and sinker.

What story is being bought? That this offer was made and rejected? Agreed that if the Yankees floated that out there and it wasn't true, it would be pretty low, but that seems far-fetched.

And that's the only detail people need in all this to turn against Jeter, I think. All the other stuff is just noise.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Logan

Kind of funny that as a Met fan, I'm the only one who follows what Jon is saying. I haven't seen a single post where he feels that they haven't offered him enough money.

I follow what he is saying and I have not seen anything from him about too much money either. I am just trying to understand why he thinks that Jeter is being screwed by the Yankee "propaganda" as it is.

[Logan]

What if Jeter went into this thinking that the Yankees would play it "straight" out of respect for their 15 year relationship, and he was planning on showing that same respect when it came down to accepting a deal (because everyone knows the offer is more than anyone else will pay). But in seeing how the Yankees have played it, he feels disrespected to the point where he now is willing to fight.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Logan

What if Jeter went into this thinking that the Yankees would play it "straight" out of respect for their 15 year relationship, and he was planning on showing that same respect when it came down to accepting a deal (because everyone knows the offer is more than anyone else will pay). But in seeing how the Yankees have played it, he feels disrespected to the point where he now is willing to fight.

That's exactly what I'm inartfully trying to say......

[molson]

I'm surprised they didn't offer him arbitration. They'd risk a 1-year, 20+ million dollar hit, but then he gets his 3,000th hit in a Yankee uniform, he turns 37, he has another year of decline, and by then all this talk of 3 v. 4 years and a billion dollars just sounds silly. Then they could cut him loose or maybe find a more reasonable middle ground.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Logan

What if Jeter went into this thinking that the Yankees would play it "straight" out of respect for their 15 year relationship, and he was planning on showing that same respect when it came down to accepting a deal (because everyone knows the offer is more than anyone else will pay). But in seeing how the Yankees have played it, he feels disrespected to the point where he now is willing to fight.

Hey, I have been a Jeter fan since he first started playing. But right now all we know about the situation is what the Yankees have been saying. I completely understand where they are coming from and why they are doing this. I also understand that for the most part, they can't be trusted. However, until Jeter comes out and says something to the contrary, we have to believe that things are going as they have been portrayed. No way is he being slighted by being offered a shorter contract for less money. Even if he accepted the current offer of 3/$45 million, Jeter would still be the highest paid SS in MLB. Why hasn't he accepted it? Obviously, because he wants more money and/or more years or the Yankees are making shit up about the offer.

I still don't see how the guy can feel disrespected though. He has made tons of money over the years for his ability, and no way is he worth nearly as much now. I think we all agree on that much.

If Jeter doesn't like what the Yankees are saying in public, he should come out and say his piece. Until he does, we have to take everything at face value.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

What if Jeter went into this thinking that the Yankees would play it "straight" out of respect for their 15 year relationship, and he was planning on showing that same respect when it came down to accepting a deal (because everyone knows the offer is more than anyone else will pay). But in seeing how the Yankees have played it, he feels disrespected to the point where he now is willing to fight.

If Jeter was willing to show "respect" in taking a deal I'd think a deal would have been done before he was even a free agent. They very fact that this got to free agency shows there was a lot of disagreement and messiness here.