2020 NFL Offseason Thread?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I’m partial to Justin Jefferson personally. I think he’s going to be great value for a team late in the first. He looked like one of the better college WR I’ve in a while every time I watched him last year.

Heck of a player as well. Fairly deep WR draft this season.

[tarcone]

Goodell is a terrible puppet

[tarcone]

If the NFL doesnt go with tis format instead of the stupid Deion interviews they lose

[Lathum]

Did Goodell just say Las Vegas is awarded the 2020 draft?

[henry296]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Did Goodell just say Las Vegas is awarded the 2020 draft?

Yes. They were supposed to have it this year.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by henry296

Yes. They were supposed to have it this year.

in 2020?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Did Goodell just say Las Vegas is awarded the 2020 draft?

I guess he really is better at reading off teleprompters than cue cards... PS he definitely thinks Ch has a silent h. Case Young & K'Lavon Kay-sahn. Not sure if that's some wealthy upbringing thing I'm missing or just a weird thing. (As someone with the last name Chaisson I've heard it a few different ways but I have literally never heard an American pronounce it that way.)

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by henry296

Yes. They were supposed to have it this year.

This year is 2020

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by henry296

Yes. They were supposed to have it this year.

And they didn't, so presumably he was awarding them the 2021 draft

[stevew]

The Saints need to draft a ref right here

[Lathum]

I am seeing its 2022. No ay they can take if from Cleveland next year, too many things in motion already for them to do that.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am seeing its 2022. No ay they can take if from Cleveland next year, too many things in motion already for them to do that.

They should be immune to disappointment by now.

[BishopMVP]

No surprise the Patriots trade down. Good value too if it's 37/71 for 23, should be some good WR or Kmet available at 37, and while I like Murray/Queen LB does seem like a place we can plug in other teams castaways & don't need to use premium capital.

No idea why Trey Wingo thinks the Patriots will definitely be drafting a QB this draft & thinks that trade down is to add draft capital so the Patriots can move around and get one in the 3rd/4th round... No one seems to believe they like Jarrett Stidham and he will actually start (even though he already beat out Brian Hoyer once), but having 2 developmental QB's at once seems like a poor idea - doubly so this offseason - and Belichick hates carrying 3 QB's. Beyond that the idea that you trade out of the first & pick up an early 2nd & 3rd so you can do more trading in the 3rd or 4th if you like a guy is a baffling theory

[bhlloy]

Am I the only one who thinks it’s cringeworthy to see Goodell “interacting” with what obviously are prerecorded screens of fans behind him? It looks awful and obviously fake. It’s literally just clips of fans generically cheering all at the same time.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Am I the only one who thinks it’s cringeworthy to see Goodell “interacting” with what obviously are prerecorded screens of fans behind him? It looks awful and obviously fake. It’s literally just clips of fans generically cheering all at the same time.

This is hilarious though!

Lol the chargers couldn't even fill those 12 spots of fans pic.twitter.com/TLEhIpTCz3

— Javier (@nocloutjavi) April 24, 2020

[tarcone]

Packers love Iowa guys

[bhlloy]

That’s about the best possible scenario for Love. Let him sit for 2 or even 3 years and try to become the next Mahomes.

[bhlloy]

DOLA - calling it now. Gruden and Rodgers in 2021 in Vegas.

[stevew]

This makes no sense for the Packers. Rodgers should be hella pissed right now.

[stevew]

Wow. The inspirational tale of suicide.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

That’s about the best possible scenario for Love. Let him sit for 2 or even 3 years and try to become the next Mahomes.

And about the worst scenario for an aging Rodgers who needs help on the offense.

[tarcone]

Come on middle class pick up the rich, you bastards

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And about the worst scenario for an aging Rodgers who needs help on the offense.

At least Aaron Rodgers seems like a guy who won't be bitter or let his frustrations about this be known at all.

[tarcone]

Im not sure I understand why Rodgers would be pissed. He was in the exact same situation as Love and Rodgers is a borderline HOFer.

[CU Tiger]

Tarcone, just catching up.
I'm an OL junkie...and think I'm pretty decent at eval.
Words is very twitchy and athletic. I thiik the only reaosn he dropped is he lacks ideal height and or width to play OT in the NFL and has never played OG where he likely projects best.

I actually think he could play OT in the league...but he better projects at OG

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Tarcone, just catching up.
I'm an OL junkie...and think I'm pretty decent at eval.
Words is very twitchy and athletic. I thiik the only reaosn he dropped is he lacks ideal height and or width to play OT in the NFL and has never played OG where he likely projects best.

I actually think he could play OT in the league...but he better projects at OG

As the league evolves, pro bowl guards as just as important as tackles.

Wirfs set 2 records at the combine and as you saw eclipsed a record set at Iowa by a pro bowler.

Wirfs is legit. Wherever he plays. Which was both left and right tackle at Iowa.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by tarcone

As the league evolves, pro bowl guards as just as important as tackles.

I agree here. In today's game nearly every pass play is designed to get the ball out in 2.5 or less and it's pressure up the middle that blows up RPOs. Given the choice between 2 good tackles or 2 good guards and a center I'd take the better interior, which probably wouldn't have been the case 5 years ago.

[stevew]

Chiefs just getting richer.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I don't know why I'm watching, it will be 11:30 pm before the Patriots pick, and they'll probably trade out of the first round

You were a wise person, past me.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im not sure I understand why Rodgers would be pissed. He was in the exact same situation as Love and Rodgers is a borderline HOFer.

Because (most) people are selfish, and aging QB's prefer their team spend draft capital on players who will help them win another ring instead of potentially setting the organization up for success after their career.

[stevew]

Aaron Rodgers to the Pats in 2021 to finish out BB's career

[Lathum]

NFL Draft: Mike Vrabel’s Titans war room goes viral, thanks to a mullet, Frozone and kid in bathroom - al.com

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Because (most) people are selfish, and aging QB's prefer their team spend draft capital on players who will help them win another ring instead of potentially setting the organization up for success after their career.

I don't think it's just selfishness. When you have a HOF QB still playing at a high level you need to focus your efforts on helping that guy win a championship. Drafting for the future wastes the incredibly rare resource already on your roster.

[jbergey22]

I was happy with the Vikings draft....

I love the Jefferson pick(I dont know how the Eagles could pass on that production). I would have liked the Vikings to draft Josh Jones from Houston with their 2nd first round pick however they traded down and grabbed a talented cornerback(another huge need) while Jones is still there(perhaps trade up and get him tonight)

A bonus was that the Bears didnt have a 1st round pick and the Packers screwed theirs up. First of all, I dont know why the Packers drafted a project QB when a position they need was as stacked as its ever been. Second of all, I dont know why they thought they needed to trade ahead of the Ravens(Jackson), Dolphins(Tua), Seahawks(Wilson), and Titans(Tannehill) in order to draft this player and give up more picks.

I dont know for sure if the Jags had interest in Tua. But I was thinking why didnt the Giants trade their #4 for the Jags #9 & 19. The Jags could have gotten Tua while the Giants could have gotten a stud tackle and added another 1st rounder. It just made too much sense to me to have not happened.

Apparently, the Giants were split on taking Andrew Thomas or Tristan Wirfs. If that was truly the case why not trade down if they are both there and gain value in the draft? This is why the Giants are not the Patriots. Ill never understand how these professional GM's are so poor at maximizing their teams edge in the draft.

[Arles]

I don't think the Love move is a bad one for Green Bay. First, I think people are completely discounting the coronavirus impact on rookies. At 24 or 30, the odds that a WR, ILB or OT comes in with no offseason work, a very limited (best case) training camp and contributes in 2020 is pretty slim. Unless you have a top 10-15 talent or need a spot like RB, this draft is probably more for 2021 than this season. So, it makes sense to draft your QB of the future and more "project" picks. Next, Green Bay has had two of the last 3 seasons lost because we had to watch the law-firm of Hundley, Calahan and Kizer come in and go 3-8 when Rodgers was hurt. If AR gets hurt in 2021-2023, we now have a chance to atleast win a few of those games. Finally, Aaron is 36 years old. Love gets signed for a 4-year deal for $12 mil with a team option for year 5. That means the team has control over him (at a pretty reasonable $3 mil a year) until Rodgers is 41. When you take it all into account, the move does make some sense. Plus, at the end of the day, Aaron isn't going to be throwing to some rookie in 2020 that he's seen plan for an hour prior to the season. He wouldn't throw to 2-3 of the guys that had been on the team for multiple years this year because he didn't trust them. All he did was rave about Jake Kumerow the last two camps and we had a WR group ravaged by injuries in 2019. Kumerow played 14 games (started 4) and ended up with 21 total targets (1.5 a game). Rodgers will pretty much ice out any rookie that comes in (and isn't a polished Jerry Rice off the bat). So, it's better to use a round 2/3 pick on that spot with an eye for the future than waste a first on a guy who just get the evil eye from Aaron for the first half of the season when he runs the wrong route.

The best thing for GB to do is grab 4-5 guys who they think have the potential to be special and use vets to fill the WR and LB holes for 2020. You would really be winning the lottery to get a pick in the late 20s to come right in and contribute with no offseason and minimal camp time. This will really be a redshirt year for most rookies.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I dont know why they thought they needed to trade ahead of the Ravens(Jackson), Dolphins(Tua), Seahawks(Wilson), and Titans(Tannehill) in order to draft this player and give up more picks.

I can only assume they were afraid of another team trading up for him.

[Arles]

Yeah, they gave up pick 136 (30th in 4th round), which is a pretty low price. In 2017, Atlanta moved from 31 to 26 and it cost a 3rd. It would have been extremely easy for Indy (34), Detroit (35) or New England (37) to move ahead of GB at 30 to get Love. For what essentially was a 5th round pick, it makes send to move up if they were worried about that. The team still has 9 picks and I bet they trade up again. I don't think this is the season you want 8-9 rookies coming in (with little pre-season work).

[QuikSand]

So, when you're a non-expert but steeped in analysis by pundits/pseudo-experts, there's a good deal of DKE at work. Hard to counteract it.

I'm rooting for a team, Miami, and am watching their picks really closely. They did what I really wanted at QB (stand pat, take Tua at 1.5) and still had a giant cache of picks to work with. I wanted them to steer clear of RB with their picks at 18, 26, and 39... so far, so good.

Now, we kinda knew they loved T Austin Jackson, I just wanted them to wait until pick 26 for him. They didn't. So, that felt like a loss of value to me, relative to the background apparent consensus (that we all recognize as not perfectly predictive). Then, they deal down again, but still have obvious target S McKinnie available at 30... but go elsewhere (CB).

So, what should a proper Miami fan think? Honestly, I feel it's maybe 80% likely, or more, that they could have gotten these guys later... T Jackson at 26, and CB Iggy at 39. Meaning they could have taken their BPA at pick 18, rather than at 39, like they are now lines up to do. That feels like a leak of value.

So... that is the price they paid to be absolutely certain they got "their guys." Time will have to tell whether they selected the right players. What we can say right after the draft is whether they seemed to maximize value. It think it's clear they did not.

So... meh grade for execution.

I will remain hopeful that they know what they are doing, and they are deliberately picking "project" players (both guys are really raw) with an eye toward this team coming together after a couple more years. I'd be okay with that.

And one more note... if the plan is don't really focus on 2020, but on 2022, I'm down. But in that case DO NOT SPEND SERIOUS CAPITAL AT RUNNING BACK. That's a fine last-piece, not a sensible early-piece while you still can't block or stop anyone.

[Kodos]

I know that I've been pretty happy that I dropped the Dolphins after they drove out Marino. If I were still a fan, I would have mixed feelings on Tua. I have a hard time believing that he plays out a full career with his injury history.

[Arles]

It is funny that nearly every team gets an A or a B in these "expert" grades on day one by sticking close to the consensus. The lack of preparation time will make it tough for a lot of these guys to really contribute so I could see a lot of "bust" reactions after year 1 (which may not be fair).

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Surtt

I can only assume they were afraid of another team trading up for him.

That is likely true. However, it kind falls in line with my other thinking. You have Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love is far from a sure thing. They dont need a QB and they certainly dont need to overpay for one.

Take Tee Higgins or Mims and get your franchise QB and future Hall of Famer, that probably has 4-5 years left, a 2nd wide receiver.

Id be pissed if I were Rodgers or a Packers fan. When you are sitting with a top 5 QB that needs help, you get him the help he needs before he is no longer with your team.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Arles

It is funny that nearly every team gets an A or a B in these "expert" grades on day one by sticking close to the consensus.

Yeah.

I am not sure why some sportswriter hasn't started doing draft grades four years out. That could be the thing. The day after the draft, you give your grades for the draft 4 years ago.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Apparently, the Giants were split on taking Andrew Thomas or Tristan Wirfs. If that was truly the case why not trade down if they are both there and gain value in the draft? This is why the Giants are not the Patriots. Ill never understand how these professional GM's are so poor at maximizing their teams edge in the draft.

A team needs to want to trade up for you to be able to trade down.

Giants’ Dave Gettleman: There were ‘no firm offers’ to trade down

“We had conversations, but everyone was touchy-feely, maybe yes, maybe no. There were no firm offers anywhere,” Gettleman told reporters during a conference call. “There is nothing that made me look at John Mara and Joe (Judge) and say let’s trade back and get some more picks. There really wasn’t much there. You can see we haven’t had a trade in the first round yet, how often does that happen? There wasn’t a lot of action.”

The Giants weren’t alone. The Detroit Lions had feverishly tried to trade down from the No. 3 spot, but found absolutely no takers and ultimately settled on Ohio State cornerback Jeff Okudah.

Several other teams fared no better as the draft saw zero trades over the first 10 picks for the first time since 2015. In fact, the first trade didn’t even come until pick No. 13.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't think the Love move is a bad one for Green Bay. First, I think people are completely discounting the coronavirus impact on rookies. At 24 or 30, the odds that a WR, ILB or OT comes in with no offseason work, a very limited (best case) training camp and contributes in 2020 is pretty slim. Unless you have a top 10-15 talent or need a spot like RB, this draft is probably more for 2021 than this season. So, it makes sense to draft your QB of the future and more "project" picks. Next, Green Bay has had two of the last 3 seasons lost because we had to watch the law-firm of Hundley, Calahan and Kizer come in and go 3-8 when Rodgers was hurt. If AR gets hurt in 2021-2023, we now have a chance to atleast win a few of those games. Finally, Aaron is 36 years old. Love gets signed for a 4-year deal for $12 mil with a team option for year 5. That means the team has control over him (at a pretty reasonable $3 mil a year) until Rodgers is 41. When you take it all into account, the move does make some sense. Plus, at the end of the day, Aaron isn't going to be throwing to some rookie in 2020 that he's seen plan for an hour prior to the season. He wouldn't throw to 2-3 of the guys that had been on the team for multiple years this year because he didn't trust them. All he did was rave about Jake Kumerow the last two camps and we had a WR group ravaged by injuries in 2019. Kumerow played 14 games (started 4) and ended up with 21 total targets (1.5 a game). Rodgers will pretty much ice out any rookie that comes in (and isn't a polished Jerry Rice off the bat). So, it's better to use a round 2/3 pick on that spot with an eye for the future than waste a first on a guy who just get the evil eye from Aaron for the first half of the season when he runs the wrong route.

The best thing for GB to do is grab 4-5 guys who they think have the potential to be special and use vets to fill the WR and LB holes for 2020. You would really be winning the lottery to get a pick in the late 20s to come right in and contribute with no offseason and minimal camp time. This will really be a redshirt year for most rookies.

Its a nice spin if it makes you feel better. But.....its just terrible IMO.

This article sums up how I feel
Packers' Nonsensical Decision to Trade Up for Jordan Love Could Be Crippling | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

And its not even comparable to when Rodgers got drafted. Rodgers was in that #1 pick discussion so he had value. Jordan Love shouldnt even have been a 1st round pick. His numbers last year (61 percent completion percentage, 20 TDS, 17 Ints) against average to below average competition. They are hungup on his arm because Pat Mahomes is so trendy right now.

This is the 1st offensive skill position player that Packers have drafted in the 1st round since they took Rodgers in 2005. Apparently, they just expect Rodgers to carry the offense by himself as he always has. Perhaps this is the reason they struggle so badly when Rodgers gets hurt. They dont draft any playmakers early.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I have a hard time believing that he plays out a full SEASON with his injury history.

Fixed that for ya

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by sabotai

A team needs to want to trade up for you to be able to trade down.

Giants’ Dave Gettleman: There were ‘no firm offers’ to trade down

Maybe Gettleman needs to watch Kevin Costner on draftday and learn how to sell that pick.

I think the Dolphins played everyone this draft it appears. They had everyone guessing from February on.

[AlexB]

Laremy Tunsil to sign historic extension with Texans: Report

Tunsil negotiating directly with BOB is interesting, particularly as he ends up with $4m higher than the next best OL contract, which is an increase of more than 20%...

Another BOB masterclass

[sabotai]

Watching clips of Pat McAfee's draft show from last night. The guy doing the Mel Kiper impression is fucking hilarious.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Its a nice spin if it makes you feel better. But.....its just terrible IMO.

This article sums up how I feel
Packers' Nonsensical Decision to Trade Up for Jordan Love Could Be Crippling | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

First round picks aren't the only way to improve and GB has a pretty rough track record on skilled first round players. KC didn't even have a first round pick in 18 or 19. NE's last 6-7 first round picks have been trash and the idea that a raw WR like Mims is going to be a bigger impact than a WR they get in round 2 (or even 3) is a big question. I could see this line if a guy like Ayuk or Lamb had fallen - but there just wasn't a clear guy there over a chance at very good future QB (according to GB). Plus, Green Bay has done very well with WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round (Jennings, Jordy, Cobb, Adams and James Jones) - so I think they have some confidence to still get that guy later.

And its not even comparable to when Rodgers got drafted. Rodgers was in that #1 pick discussion so he had value. Jordan Love shouldnt even have been a 1st round pick. His numbers last year (61 percent completion percentage, 20 TDS, 17 Ints) against average to below average competition. They are hungup on his arm because Pat Mahomes is so trendy right now.

Did you watch Utah State last year? Their OL and WRs were crap. I saw a few of their games (including LSU and Wake). He was running for his life. There's a reason he had 32 TDs and 6 INT in 18 and then 20 and 17 in 19. His team was awful last season (and they still went 7-6 at 29 PPG). I also didn't use the Rodgers/Favre angle. I agree that using that logic is a reach here.

Having a capable backup QB that could take over for Rodgers is way more important to me than a slot WR or ILB that will play 20 snaps a game as a rookie. You've seen Green Bay with Hundley and Kizer, it wasn't pretty and Aaron isn't exactly a picture of perfect health at 36.

This is the 1st offensive skill position player that Packers have drafted in the 1st round since they took Rodgers in 2005. Apparently, they just expect Rodgers to carry the offense by himself as he always has. Perhaps this is the reason they struggle so badly when Rodgers gets hurt. They dont draft any playmakers early.

I saw that on twitter, it's BS. Here are the 2nd round picks they've taken to help Rodgers: Jennings, Jordy, Cobb, Lacy, Adams. They've also grabbed James Jones and Jermichael Finley in the 3rd and Aaron Jones in the 5th. That's not even talking about the 10 top 4-round picks they've used on the OL. I agree that they didn't use FA well under Ted, but Gutey has gone out and spent on the offense since he took over. The idea that taking a WR in the first round was the magical exilir for the Packers is a little silly. They need more vets for 2020 - not rookies Aaron won't throw to.

[Arles]

Michael Lombardi adds another interesting angle:

From the GM’s Eye: The Packers and Cowboys made unexpected but smart Day 1 picks – The Athletic

As for Green Bay: The Packers might have been a 13-3 team last season with an NFC title game appearance, but they had more needs than most 13-win teams. They could use more skilled players on offense, another tackle on defense, and more than anything, an outside receiver to take the pressure off their number one receiver Davante Adams. Gutekunst knows this. He knows they need to help Rodgers now. But he also knows there are some telltale signs that Rodgers is closer to the end than to his prime. In fact, last week, I was talking to someone who knows the Packers’ thought process thoroughly and asked him: Does Gutekunst understand that Rodgers is trending the wrong way? That now might be the best time to pick his eventual replacement? The answer was that Gutekunst was fully aware. His actions last night proved that statement to be correct.

Look, no one is claiming Rodgers cannot make plays, but over the last five years, Rodgers has not been able to make as many explosive plays down the field, which is the key for any quarterback. Rodgers protects the ball, he does not throw interceptions, but there has been a steady decline over the last five years in making plays down the field. Not since 2014 has Rodgers thrown above 8.0 yards per attempt. In 2014, he was at 8.4 yards per attempt, and over the last five years, he has averaged 7.1 yards per attempt. Over the seven-year span from 2008 until 2014, Rodgers averaged 8.3 yards per attempt. That’s a full yard difference, which might not seem like much, but it is significant. Now, some might say he needs better skill players around him, which is of course valuable, but most great players make those around them better. Russell Wilson of Seattle has never had the best group of skill players around him, yet all he does is make plays. Wilson averages 7.9 YPA for his career, and over the last two years his YPA has been 8 or over.

Rodgers can be upset and angry with the move, but it was one the Packers had to make to ensure there is no lull between winning. They are confident enough that they can improve the rest of their current team through the rest of the draft and offseason to continue to be successful with Rodgers in the immediate future. (There’s a ton of receiver depth in this draft, after all, and in 2014 they got Davante Adams in the second round). But to ensure the continuity of their franchise for the long-term, this was something that needed to happen, either this year or next. He’ll take some flak for it, but Gutekunst protected his franchise, which is his main job.

McGinn had good stuff as well:

McGinn: Packers GM Brian Gutekunst makes a bold move but will it pay off? – The Athletic

Gutekunst reacted aggressively after his draft board started getting wiped out. A source with knowledge of the Packers’ intentions said they were keenly interested in a wide receiver to play the slot, but then TCU’s Jalen Reagor went No. 21 to the Eagles, LSU’s Justin Jefferson went No. 22 to the Vikings and Arizona State’s Brandon Aiyuk went No. 25 to the 49ers.

At that point, some of the players of interest to Green Bay were left tackle Ezra Cleveland of Boise State, right tackle Isaiah Wilson of Georgia, defensive end Marlon Davidson of Auburn and one of a tightly bunched group of cornerbacks. Teams had started coming off wide receiver Tee Higgins of Clemson because of an arthritic condition in his ankle.

According to Gutekunst, the Packers considered trading down but didn’t have attractive options. They didn’t consider jumping ahead for the No. 23 pick that the Patriots would deal to the Chargers.

When Oklahoma linebacker Kenneth Murray, another player admired by the Packers, went to the Chargers, Gutekunst got serious.

If there wasn't a difference between the WR or LB available at 30 and one they could get in the 2nd, maybe the team pivoted to the QB. I would much rather grab a potential QB for the future than a project RT like Cleveland or Wilson.

He also dealt with his opinion on the difference between the Rodgers and Favre situations:

One of the differences in the decisions was the fact that Favre was playing better football at the time than Rodgers is now.

In the five years before the arrival of Rodgers, my final grades for Favre were B-plus in 2004, B in ’03, B-plus in ’02, A-minus in ’01 and B in ’00. In Rodgers’ last five seasons, my grades for him were C-plus in 2019, C-plus in ’18, B in ’17, A-minus in ’16 and B-minus in ’15.

Counting playoffs, in his 12 seasons as the starter Rodgers’ numbers in 2019 ranked 10th in completion percentage (63.0 percent), 10th in average yards per attempt (7.20) and 10th in passer rating (96.4).

If Rodgers had been more impressive last season, especially in his two inept performances against the 49ers, Gutekunst might have been more inclined to keep developing Boyle and draft for immediate help at another position.