NFL 2016 Head Coaching and Offseason Stuff

[Vince, Pt. II]

I believe that's the point he's trying to make. If it's about Cam showboating, and not about race, why aren't those other players (who also showboat) having the same reaction?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I believe that's the point he's trying to make. If it's about Cam showboating, and not about race, why aren't those other players (who also showboat) having the same reaction?

It's not because he's black. At least, not on a grand scale that is being purported by ESPN. As for Aaron Rodgers, I didn't realize he did the Discount Doublecheck every game...didn't know Favre had a celebration...same for JJ Watt! I DO know that Cam has one....thanks to ESPN. Logically though, it would appear that ... QB TD Celebration level of effort = level of "outrage". Not racism.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Dutch

It's not because he's black. At least, not on a grand scale that is being purported by ESPN. As for Aaron Rodgers, I didn't realize he did the Discount Doublecheck every game...didn't know Favre had a celebration...same for JJ Watt! I DO know that Cam has one....thanks to ESPN. Logically though, it would appear that ... QB TD Celebration level of effort = level of "outrage". Not racism.

What evidence do you need to be provided with that will prove that racism is a factor in the dislike of SOME for Cam Newton?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

What evidence do you need to be provided with that will prove that racism is a factor in the dislike of SOME for Cam Newton?

Sure for some. But people hated Manziel for show-boating as well. I think he is white, right?

[GrantDawg]

Further on Cam....
Some people don't like him because of the laptop incident in college.
Some people still feel he knew his dad was trying to sell him to the highest bidder in college.
Some felt he was a cheater and never should have won the Heisman.
And some don't like him because he is black.
Racism may be a reason for some. But there are other reasons that probably make up the greater percentage. (btw, I don't have a problem with him expect he plays my Falcons).

[ISiddiqui]

I'd argue that most of the it is race related. The people who I usually confront about hating Cam by other examples say something like "I don't know about them showboating, if they do it to, then I don't like it either". Really, you don't know about JJ Watt's showboating? Or are you trying to backtrack from your racist statements?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Sure for some. But people hated Manziel for show-boating as well. I think he is white, right?

Nobody said that there are not reasons for people to hate Cam for his showboating if you are inclined to do so. If you hate showboating (specifically at the QB position), then you are absolutely going to hate Cam, Johnny, AND Aaron Rodgers (among others) because all three are showboating QBs. I am just wondering why we are uncomfortable with the idea that racism might be a factor for those that hate Cam.

I find it similar to the discussion as to whether hate towards Tim Tebow had anything to do with his religious views. Those on one side saying that the views have nothing to do with their hate for him as a QB and vice versa on the other side.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

What evidence do you need to be provided with that will prove that racism is a factor in the dislike of SOME for Cam Newton?

I didn't discount some are in it because he's black. I put that disclaimer in the other post already.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

He seems to genuinely have fun playing the game. The league needs more like him.

The planet needs less assholes like him.

He's a CEI away from being worth a karmic chuckle afaic.

The sad part is that he's far from being the most deserving guy in the league for that fate, just one among the masses of them.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I'd argue that most of the it is race related. The people who I usually confront about hating Cam by other examples say something like "I don't know about them showboating, if they do it to, then I don't like it either". Really, you don't know about JJ Watt's showboating? Or are you trying to backtrack from your racist statements?

Where do you confront these people?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Some people still feel he knew his dad was trying to sell him to the highest bidder in college.

Trying?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Where do you confront these people?

The local pub, Facebook, to name a couple places.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

The local pub, Facebook, to name a couple places.

You must be a real joy at the local pub. "What the fuck are you racist bastards doing? Trying to relax? Fuck no...we're going to argue about how racist you bastards are right now!"

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Dutch

You must be a real joy at the local pub. "What the fuck are you racist bastards doing? Trying to relax? Fuck no...we're going to argue about how racist you bastards are right now!"

I most definitely am . Most of us can't stand those racist anti-Cam dance bastards. If you are trying to relax don't be talking about how you hate Cam due to showboating. Bring some sports intelligence if you are going to talk about sports with me.

I don't know how you do things in your local pubs, but we don't really like it when people spout off racist nonsense in ours. Though I guess you would rather just let them relax, even if they spout some slurs while chatting with you about the game?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I didn't discount some are in it because he's black. I put that disclaimer in the other post already.

You stated that it is not because he is black at least not on a grand scale. All we are really discussing are the percentage breakdown of the factors that going into hating Cam and what percentage race has to rise to make it significant on a grand scale for each individual.

I can only tell you in discussions I have had with the anti Cam faction, showboating, fake personality and the most recent factor, he does not act like Peyton Manning have all come up as reasons to dislike him. Unfortunately, far too often, it ends with most saying something to the effect of "I know others also fit those factors but when Cam does "X", it just rubs me the wrong way." I think it is fair ask what this unknown emotional factor is.

[Kodos]

He's stopped doing this this season, but Cam always seemed to be pouting alone at the far end of the bench with a towel over his head when things went poorly in past seasons. Didn't seem like a "team" guy.

I don't consider myself a hater of Newton. I put myself as more of a Cam disliker. I like that he gives footballs to kids after scores. But I've always preferred the Barry Sanders type of player to the Deion Sanders type.

Regardless of how much I like him, he's turned into a hell of a dual-threat QB. He's much better than I ever thought he would end up being.

[Logan]

I guess what's confusing me about the racism angle being so front and center is where was any of this the last two years? By my recollection there was a black QB starting for the NFC during the last two Super Bowls. Are the racists cool with black QBs as long as they don't dance?

[Honolulu_Blue]

I really like Cam Newton.

Football is a game and it's entertainment. We ask the guys playing it to play with a ton of emotion, give their all, put their bodies and minds on the line, but then get all pissy and upset if they show "too much" emotion after scoring a touchdown, getting a first down, or if something doesn't go their way (the pouting). It's a ridiculous double standard and it's so weird to me that there is this large portion of the fanbase that thinks the game should be treated so seriously and sacrosanct.

I like seeing players have fun and do their crazy ass dances and celebrations and shit. It's a game. It's entertainment. If these guys are going to put it all out there, let them have some fun and be expressive.

Also, when it comes to Cam Newton, I think a lot of it's race based. J.J. Watt does all kinds of shananigans on the field and sidelines and no one really says anything about him.

I do find Russell Wilson insufferable. He's an amazing player. I love watching him play, but he seems like a weird alien person with his Jesus water and his Googled twitter compliments about his girlfriend and all that. He doesn't seem like a real person.

Oh! The Lions signed Al Golden to coach their tight ends. All of the crappy ex-college head coaches are belong to us!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Travis Kelce is known for doing a different dance on every single touchdown. It amuses me. Not sure why Cam Newton is any different than that.

[Logan]

The only people I've seen attempt to take on JJ Watt for being completely insufferable are the Barstool Sports guys.

[Kodos]

Deion Sanders pulling his groin while high-stepping was a good moment for me.

[Thomkal]

I think some people have a problem with Cam because at times he looks like he is celebrating himself-telling the world how great he is, how much of a superman he is instead of how good whomever just caught his TD pass is. With Benjamin hurt, he basically has a bunch of no-name receivers and Greg Olsen to throw to. Makes him stand out all the more.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I do find Russell Wilson insufferable. He's an amazing player. I love watching him play, but he seems like a weird alien person with his Jesus water and his Googled twitter compliments about his girlfriend and all that. He doesn't seem like a real person.

Oh, he's real all right. He really is that religious, and he really does believe some of the crazy stuff he's trying to sell. Believe me, as a Seahawks fan I cringe at some of that stuff.

But his heart is in the right place, and I'll take his kind of weirdness over Adam Jones or Richie Incognito any day.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Travis Kelce is known for doing a different dance on every single touchdown. It amuses me. Not sure why Cam Newton is any different than that.

Maybe I can help with the difference.

Travis Kelce = who?

Give him an equivalent profile & if he's equally annoying I'm sure he'll get his turn in the barrel.

[CU Tiger]

how is this for an opinion.

I strongly disliked Cam because of, well everything that came before the NFL. Stolen laptops, Cecil made them pay, Auburn and the numerous accusation there et al.

I also thought he'd be an NFL flop.

I am actually coming around on him now Largely BECAUSE of the antics.

What does that mean about my racial views?

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Logan

The only people I've seen attempt to take on JJ Watt for being completely insufferable are the Barstool Sports guys.

For one thing, I think I only saw one Texans game all season. So he's not even really on my radar.

[Thomkal]

Looks like the Browns may be ready to cut bait on Johnny Football:

Statement from Cleveland Browns EVP of Football Operations Sashi Brown on Johnny Manziel

[Fidatelo]

I don't know a lot about Cam. I saw some kind of talk show clip where he had bright pants and did a great job explaining all the things that he has to account for when running a play, which was cool and made me like him. He also seems really good at football.

That said, as a Broncos fan I fully expect to hate him by the end of SB50.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

how is this for an opinion.

I strongly disliked Cam because of, well everything that came before the NFL. Stolen laptops, Cecil made them pay, Auburn and the numerous accusation there et al.

I also thought he'd be an NFL flop.

I am actually coming around on him now Largely BECAUSE of the antics.

What does that mean about my racial views?

This mostly summarizes me as well. I like that he is enthusiastic on the field and has fun out there.

[stevew]

Carson Wentz moving all the way up to #2 on a mock. Would be the highest FCS player drafted since McNair went #3.

[AlexB]

Didn't know anything about Cam before he was drafted, but seems to be an enthusiastic guy, exciting to watch and love the way he presents the TD ball to the kids (that girl's excitement at getting the ball in the the Championship game was priceless!). And the Superman celebration is pretty cool IMHO.

Didn't realise he was hated - jealousy is at the root of it I'm guessing?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Didn't realise he was hated - jealousy is at the root of it I'm guessing?

Cam isn't really doing anything new this year but until they started winning no one really seemed to care, so I suppose so for the most part?


Also just from reading a little (and I do mean a little, I really don't go too far out of my way seeking out any of this) on a couple forums and reddit, a signifcant majority of people seem to like Cam. But it makes for a good storyline and there's 2 weeks between the NFC/AFC Championship and the Super Bowl so its getting a ridiculous amount of attention.

There are definitely people who dislike Cam a whole lot for various reasons, how much of it racial/generational is worthwhile to talk about, and its a legit story on the whole, but holy crap has it gotten to be a huge thing this week.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

This mostly summarizes me as well. I like that he is enthusiastic on the field and has fun out there.

Basically, this is me too. I remember that Cowboys WR back in the day with the gunslinging antics and loved it. Not sure why the NFL didnt like it. Its football, not golf.

[Thomkal]

Report: Kaepernick wants to sever ties with 49ers to join Jets | FOX Sports

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Report: Kaepernick wants to sever ties with 49ers to join Jets | FOX Sports

Chip Kelly is the best thing to happen to Kaep - he'd be an idiot to leave that behind.

[claphamsa]

also would make 16M with the 49ers....much much less with the jets

[Logan]

I'd pay good money to watch the NYJ media and Kaep interact.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Chip Kelly is the best thing to happen to Kaep - he'd be an idiot to leave that behind.

Is he really? He sure didn't do well with his hand-picked choice for QB in Philly. Jury remains out on being a good NFL coach in my mind.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Is he really? He sure didn't do well with his hand-picked choice for QB in Philly. Jury remains out on being a good NFL coach in my mind.

Bradford was closer to what he wanted than Foles, but I'd hardly say he was who he really wanted.

It's funny how a 6-9 season after two 10-6 seasons suddenly puts his bonafides in question as a coach. As a GM? Sure.

[ISiddiqui]

Sad stuff. Kenny Stabler had CTE:

Log In - The New York Times

On a scale of 1 to 4, Stabler had high Stage 3 chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or C.T.E., the degenerative brain disease believed to be caused by repeated blows to the head, according to researchers at Boston University. The relationship between blows to the head and brain degeneration is still poorly understood, and some experts caution that other factors, like unrelated mood problems or dementia, might contribute to symptoms experienced by those later found to have had C.T.E.

[BillJasper]

I think the NFL could be in trouble here. Just a feeling that we're just skimming the surface on concussions.

[NobodyHere]

Manziel allegedly hit ex-girlfriend; won't be charged - NFL.com

I'm sure another team will be rushing to sign him when he's released.

[cuervo72]

Cowboys ain't care.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Manziel allegedly hit ex-girlfriend; won't be charged - NFL.com

I'm sure another team will be rushing to sign him when he's released.

Cleveland Browns will cut Johnny Manziel on March 9 - NFL.com

[cartman]

[Logan]

Manziel's agent fired him.

[Logan]

His father was interviewed and said "if they don't get him help, he won't live to see his 24th birthday". Not sure who the "they" would be there but maybe his father should be part of that.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Logan

His father was interviewed and said "if they don't get him help, he won't live to see his 24th birthday". Not sure who the "they" would be there but maybe his father should be part of that.

I can only assume (hope) that this is above and beyond help his father gives.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I have a relative who has major drug addiction issues, and has for years (nearly decades). They have an incredibly strong support system from the family and all of the reasons in the world to clean their act up (four children, dependent grandparents, etc), but they just can't do it. This person's father is still around, and the father can and does do everything in his power to support, help and admonish said person, all to no avail. Like I said, this has been going on for nearly twenty years.

It could very well be that Manziel's father is in the same place, and simply understands that it doesn't matter what he does.

[Kodos]

I have a sister-in-law who is in the same position. All sorts of support, but none of it matters, because she doesn't really want to stop.