Super Bowl 50 Thread

[Easy Mac]

This was pretty much my thought. After shaking Papa's hand and mentioning bud, I told my wife that I'm shocked he didn't say he would think about retirement this offseason while he was sitting in a recliner drinking a bud and eating Papa John's while his wife sliced some deli meat so they could binge watch Kingdom on DirectTV in their Nationwide insured home.

The only thing that would have made it better is if they asked what he's going to do after the Super Bowl, and instead of saying he was going to Disney, he said he was going to the Guyer Clinic.

[JAG]

I don't get the worst super bowl ever thing. I'll take this one over one that's a total blowout and over by halftime.

[Logan]

Yeesh.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Logan

Yeesh.

I grew up 30 minutes from Auburn, and now I live in Panther country. To a person, the many Auburn people on my social media feeds are defending Newton's lack of effort on the fumble and his behavior at the presser. Virtually all of the Panther fans have the good sense and partiality to criticize him for one or both.

[larrymcg421]

I actually don't see the big problem on that play. I think his thought process was that the Denver player was about to bat it, so be in position to go after it whatever direction it goes. While he steps back, he doesn't leave the play, he's still looking to see where it goes and has his head down trying to find it.

Now I'm not arguing he shouldn't have dove for the ball, but I think it was more of a poor judgment call on his part than being scared to go for it.

[Neuqua]

Honestly that's how I read it too when watching the play/replays. I think he misjudged and was hoping the ball was going to pop out and he was preparing himself to fall on it.

[CraigSca]

I'm not sure what I think. Seeing it live I thought, "man, he didn't even TRY!"

[Logan]

Yeah the guy is reckless with his body on scrambles and dives/jumps at the goal line frequently. I think you can make the argument that he very consciously puts himself in potentially painful situations but there, he just had a quick instinctual moment of flight.

[cartman]

It looks like at the end of the GIF that he was in a better position to recover by not diving. If he dives, he is likely past the ball, and it looks like he at least had a chance when the ball did bounce away.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I grew up 30 minutes from Auburn, and now I live in Panther country. To a person, the many Auburn people on my social media feeds are defending Newton's lack of effort on the fumble and his behavior at the presser. Virtually all of the Panther fans have the good sense and partiality to criticize him for one or both.

So you're saying pro fans are more rational than college fans?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

So you're saying pro fans are more rational than college fans?

Nope. Just War Chikkens. I'll crucify a Dawg in the NFL if he deserves it. Auburn is basically the Penn State of the South when it comes to being insular and blindly loyal.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

Seriously, my social media feed looks like Auburn lost the Super Bowl last night.


Oh, and my "favorite" headline from the last few days:
AUBURNTIGERS.COM Cam Newton adds NFL MVP to his Auburn Heisman Trophy :: Auburn University Official Athletic Site Auburn University Official Athletic Site :: Football

Didn't realize it was an "Auburn Heisman Trophy."

[cuervo72]

Heh.

[stevew]

He overran the fumble and realized his knees were going to get destroyed. That's my take on the play. He's in a horrible position to dive for the recovery because he overran it and should have dived sooner

[Ben E Lou]

In fairness, I've never had the lovely privilege of living in division-rival territory and seeing bandwagon fans popping up everywhere as they went to the Super Bowl. So between all the Auburn hype on social media and the Panther bandwagon crap thrown in my face everywhere I went (including getting--supposedly jokingly--chastised at my daughter's PRESCHOOL for not dressing her up in Panther gear on Friday,) let's just say that last night's result was a bit welcome.

[Kodos]

That presser was not impressive for Cam. Haters got a lot of ammo there. It's all Superman and happiness until you get your ass kicked.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by stevew

He overran the fumble and realized his knees were going to get destroyed. That's my take on the play. He's in a horrible position to dive for the recovery because he overran it and should have dived sooner

Yeah he missed his opportunity to dive. If he dives at the beginning of that GIF, he might get the recovery. I only take issue with the "jumping back" criticism as if it means he was scared. If he was scared, he wouldn't still be in the midst of all the players with his head down searching for the ball.

[Ben E Lou]

My Auburn haterade aside, I think Magary nails it here, especially in this section:

In the lead-up to this game, he talked about his image a LOT, and defended it a lot. He’s not a fool. When he prays before lining up behind center, he knows that you know that he knows you can see him pray.

And there’s nothing wrong with that. When Cam said he wanted to be an entertainer and icon before he was drafted (and Peter King bitched him out for it), it wasn’t that big of a deal to me because, in my mind, you can be a great player AND groom your image at the same time if that’s your thing. Russell Wilson remains a great player despite accidentally and hilariously A-Rod-ing his image every other day. But if that’s a burden you want…then you better be ready for people to dump on you when you fuck it up.

Cam Fucking Blew It

[bhlloy]

I think the focus on Newton and the post game is missing the fact that the Panthers called a really shitty game on offense. They had two weeks to prepare for one of the best pass rushes the game has ever seen and their plan was still "stay in base protection, run our terrible group of receivers 20 yards down the field and hope Cam stays upright long enough to maybe throw it near one of them?"

The Broncos D is obviously incredible (I see Troy lurking) but my god, that game plan was awful. Did they throw a screen or a short pass once?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Ah, maybe. Certainly one of the worst offensive lines at tackle to make it to the Super Bowl. When Norwell went out, it certainly didn't help. Panthers kept stubbornly refusing to help those OTs with the ends. And their lack of quality at WR finally showed as well.

But Cam didn't have a very good game, thanks to that constant unrelenting pressure.

After the Packers game: Rodgers had an off day, the offensive line has issues

After the first Patriots game: They were injured at WR and RB (offensive line is never mentioned) Nobody mentions Denver was missing 3 defensive starters in the game

After the Steelers playoff game: They didn't have Antonio Brown

After the Patriots playoff game: The Patriots offensive line sucks. How horrible is that line?

After the Panthers game: One of the worst offensive lines at tackle to ever make a Super Bowl.


Padon me while I start screaming. You know what one of the worst offensive lines at tackle to make a Super Bowl is? Denver. Michael Schofield. He may not even be in the league next year. He was a turnstile in this game as well.

In the case of the Steelers, Pats and Panthers, you are talking about teams that had pretty much zero problems scoring against any other team they played. 1st, 3rd, 4th in scoring in the NFL. Carolina lit up 2 of the top 5 defenses in the league before they ran into Denver.

Those offenses were going up against a Denver offense that was one of the single worst units in the entire league in the Broncos offense. The Broncos converted 10 of 46 third downs in the playoffs.

This is one of the very best defenses to ever win a Super Bowl and they did it with the worst offense ever to go to a Super Bowl.

[Toddzilla]

Someone forgot to give Cam's dad $200,000

[ISiddiqui]

Cam definitely did blow it, but it's somewhat understandable. I mean, heck, Peyton Manning walked off the field early in his SB loss against the Saints, refusing to shake hands. Losing a SB sucks. But maybe Cam can turn around the bad press he's getting now.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I think the focus on Newton and the post game is missing the fact that the Panthers called a really shitty game on offense. They had two weeks to prepare for one of the best pass rushes the game has ever seen and their plan was still "stay in base protection, run our terrible group of receivers 20 yards down the field and hope Cam stays upright long enough to maybe throw it near one of them?"

The Broncos D is obviously incredible (I see Troy lurking) but my god, that game plan was awful. Did they throw a screen or a short pass once?

Yeah, they caught the Broncos with the screen to Olsen on one play.

Taking off my Denver blinders for a second and analyzing this, what were the Panthers supposed to do?

The only thing I think they could have done differently was to try more option runs. The problem was they weren't working for most of the night. They had a few successes, but most of those runs were getting crushed. So if your dominant running game gets shut down, now what?

Remember the Patriots game? They tried to throw short all game and were suffocated until both Denver safeties left the game with injuries.

The Panthers won this year by running the ball, throwing to Olsen and then going max protect and throwing it deep. That was their gameplan. Colbert, Stewart and Whittaker averaged 1 catch a game this year. They were targeted 4 times in this game. Could they have been targeted more? Maybe. But that would have went against everything they did to get there.

I mean, I don't blame the Panthers for playing the game the way they did. They were a dominant offense playing the game the way they played it all year. They lit up Seattle and Arizona in the playoffs.

They ran into a team that was better. Period.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I grew up 30 minutes from Auburn, and now I live in Panther country. To a person, the many Auburn people on my social media feeds are defending Newton's lack of effort on the fumble and his behavior at the presser. Virtually all of the Panther fans have the good sense and partiality to criticize him for one or both.

To this point AU fans have probably still got more $$$ invested in him.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Cam definitely did blow it, but it's somewhat understandable. I mean, heck, Peyton Manning walked off the field early in his SB loss against the Saints, refusing to shake hands. Losing a SB sucks. But maybe Cam can turn around the bad press he's getting now.

I wish he'd handled it differently and I said that. I don't think he's a horrible person. I hope he learns from this. As said above, he isn't the first person to ever make a mistake. On the other side, this is a guy who loved to talk when things were going well. "You don't like me dancing, stop me."

He brought up race right away in the lead up to the Super Bowl. Well, you say those type of things and do those type of things, the spotlight is going to be on you Cam. Your quote can be used back on you "You don't want to deal with criticism, don't soak in every positive thing said about you for years"

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wait, Troy is still trying to justify that his team is good?

Learn from the Royals. Just raise the trophy and laugh. Nothing else matters.

[ISiddiqui]

The irony is thick in that post

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

The irony is thick in that post

Even I learn things.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Wait, Troy is still trying to justify that his team is good?

Learn from the Royals. Just raise the trophy and laugh. Nothing else matters.

I guess the Broncos didn't pee down their leg like the Chiefs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I guess the Broncos didn't pee down their leg like the Chiefs.

I'm not sure 12 straight wins is peeing down your leg, but the Broncos definitely did better.

[jbergey22]

Despite all of this "my team is better and they proved it" talk sports is still very much a numbers game. The NFL has such a small sample size we really never know for sure. For all we really know the Panthers could go out and beat the Broncos 4 straight games if they played 4 more times. Even the seemingly unbeatable Golden State Warriors managed to lose a game to the Pistons by 20 points within the past month. The Broncos were the better team last night, they deserved to win the championship, and they do have an historically impressive defense.

The reason I bring this up has little to do with the game last night. Id speculate if they played 10 times it would end up around 50/50. The year the 16-0 Pats lost to the Giants they were on the wrong side of the numbers game. I think the Pats would have beaten that team 8.5/9 times out of every 10.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm not sure 12 straight wins is peeing down your leg, but the Broncos definitely did better.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Would love to see the Broncos piss down their leg tonight and enter next week with the possibility that they may not even make the playoffs.

Guess you didn't get your wish.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I actually don't see the big problem on that play. I think his thought process was that the Denver player was about to bat it, so be in position to go after it whatever direction it goes. While he steps back, he doesn't leave the play, he's still looking to see where it goes and has his head down trying to find it.

Now I'm not arguing he shouldn't have dove for the ball, but I think it was more of a poor judgment call on his part than being scared to go for it.

I pretty much agree with all of this. The only problem I've had with any replies to that play were snarky comments about how Cam isn't willing to risk getting hurt. Cam is a fucking beast and he knows it, he'll deliver blocks on reverses/broken plays, he delivers hits as a runner instead of going out of bounds, he fights for the extra yard or two like a running back instead of sliding all the damn time. Call out his post game stuff all you want, but separate it from his actual on field play. The man isn't soft or afraid of getting into the mix.

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

In fairness, I've never had the lovely privilege of living in division-rival territory and seeing bandwagon fans popping up everywhere as they went to the Super Bowl. So between all the Auburn hype on social media and the Panther bandwagon crap thrown in my face everywhere I went (including getting--supposedly jokingly--chastised at my daughter's PRESCHOOL for not dressing her up in Panther gear on Friday,) let's just say that last night's result was a bit welcome.

Haha man you have every right to enjoy this in your current situation, but holy shit Facebook I don't need to see every damn thing that my facebook friends like or comment on on days like these

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I think the focus on Newton and the post game is missing the fact that the Panthers called a really shitty game on offense.

I'm really not sure what they could have done differently. Cam clearly had problems with his nerves at least early, and even on plays where he wasn't pressured, he was forcing it, he overthrew too many open guys, and guys dropped too many passes they would normally catch. If they make half the plays they usually make its a different game. Denver D gets credit for rattling Cam, but there were more than enough open receivers and if they make half the plays they normally make, Carolina has a few more drives that get extended, they get into field goal range a couple more times, and its a different game.

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

My Auburn haterade aside, I think Magary nails it here

Yep, I'm disappointed. The early overthrows felt like a Cam from 1-2 years ago that we all thought was gone by now. Some of the emotional stuff at the end of the game and postgame felt like a Cam that we thought was gone 3 years ago. People who don't watch Carolina b/c they weren't in the national spotlight until the second half of the year haven't seen how much Cam seemed to have matured in this regard, that all the shit about him sulking was a thing from 2012, not 2015. Carolina has lost games, and lost playoff games with Cam, without any of that coming back up.

I've seen Cam mature enough to not be really worried about it. He's not RG3, he is a very smart guy and has pretty good self awareness and he'll learn from this. But I'm still disappointed it happened.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Despite all of this "my team is better and they proved it" talk sports is still very much a numbers game. The NFL has such a small sample size we really never know for sure. For all we really know the Panthers could go out and beat the Broncos 4 straight games if they played 4 more times. Even the seemingly unbeatable Golden State Warriors managed to lose a game to the Pistons by 20 points within the past month. The Broncos were the better team last night, they deserved to win the championship, and they do have an historically impressive defense.

The reason I bring this up has little to do with the game last night. Id speculate if they played 10 times it would end up around 50/50. The year the 16-0 Pats lost to the Giants they were on the wrong side of the numbers game. I think the Pats would have beaten that team 8.5/9 times out of every 10.

Everything you said is correct. I especially agree with the last paragraph. The difference is, heading into the playoffs and heading into this game, that is NOT what people felt. I think most people thought that the Panthers would win 8 of the 10 games. The point spread showed it and the experts picks showed it.

Lets say Trevathan doesn't get back and the Panthers recover the fumble after the INT. Panthers ball, 1st and goal at the 7, down 9 points. When you have a horrific offense, you certain things to happen to win a football game. The two Manning turnovers (1 of which took probable points off the board) would have been killer had Denver not forced the 4 turnovers. The punt return? That's luck. Sorry, it's pure, 100% luck. Play that game tomorrow, it doesn't happen.

My point all year has been how special this defense is. Them capping it off with a win should cement that. Denver is not the most dominant team in the world. They aren't on their way to a dynasty (without massive offensive improvement). But they have been much better than people think all year. Now people can see that. i think if you ask people to predict the game tomorrow, it will be closer to 50/50 than the 85% that it was.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm not sure 12 straight wins is peeing down your leg, but the Broncos definitely did better.

I haven't said a lot about the Chiefs this year. They played well and I feel badly that their D was hurt, because I think they had a real shot against the Patriots.

Their winning streak had a little bit of fortune, but that was a damned good football team.

My favorite quote from you was how the Denver defense built itself up in the first half of the season and really wasn't elite. That was quite the call.

As for me talking, I'll do what I want, but thanks for the advice. You do a very good job of following your own advice PS vs XBOX debates.

[JonInMiddleGA]

fwiw, count me among those that completely forgot Peyton has part-ownership of a pair of Anheuser-Busch distributorships.

Bud didn't have to pay him for those mentions, he was basically paying himself.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I haven't said a lot about the Chiefs this year. They played well and I feel badly that their D was hurt, because I think they had a real shot against the Patriots.

Their winning streak had a little bit of fortune, but that was a damned good football team.

My favorite quote from you was how the Denver defense built itself up in the first half of the season and really wasn't elite. That was quite the call.

As for me talking, I'll do what I want, but thanks for the advice. You do a very good job of following your own advice PS vs XBOX debates.

If there is one thing I know about MBBF is many of his statements have blinders attached, are twisted in some miraculous way to defend his logic, or backed with no research. His homer ways would be much more tolerable if it actually seemed like he paid attention to the other teams or cultures around him. He found a way to actually get me to not want the Royals to win the World Series this year despite the fact that Ive always had a soft spot for the Royals(being long time losers).

[Butter]

Originally Posted by TroyF

After the Packers game: Rodgers had an off day, the offensive line has issues

After the first Patriots game: They were injured at WR and RB (offensive line is never mentioned) Nobody mentions Denver was missing 3 defensive starters in the game

After the Steelers playoff game: They didn't have Antonio Brown

After the Patriots playoff game: The Patriots offensive line sucks. How horrible is that line?

After the Panthers game: One of the worst offensive lines at tackle to ever make a Super Bowl.


Padon me while I start screaming. You know what one of the worst offensive lines at tackle to make a Super Bowl is? Denver. Michael Schofield. He may not even be in the league next year. He was a turnstile in this game as well.

In the case of the Steelers, Pats and Panthers, you are talking about teams that had pretty much zero problems scoring against any other team they played. 1st, 3rd, 4th in scoring in the NFL. Carolina lit up 2 of the top 5 defenses in the league before they ran into Denver.

Those offenses were going up against a Denver offense that was one of the single worst units in the entire league in the Broncos offense. The Broncos converted 10 of 46 third downs in the playoffs.

This is one of the very best defenses to ever win a Super Bowl and they did it with the worst offense ever to go to a Super Bowl.

Why can't your first few sentences be true AND it also be true that Denver's defense was very good?

The fact is, Denver benefited from an AFC that was chock full of teams that had fatal flaws. The New England team that you state was lighting everyone up scored 10 points in Week 17 at Miami fighting for home field. The Steelers team that was lighting everyone up scored 18 points at Cincinnati WITH Antonio Brown, then 16 at Denver without him.

I'm sure as a fan you don't like things to be minimized, but Denver's defense absolutely won that game for them and they deserved to win. But it's also true that Carolina had over 300 yards on offense and really couldn't get out of their own way. It felt somehow like a dominant performance on defense for Denver, but at the same time a choke job by Cam and that offense.

[wustin]

They did a good job shutting down Olsen. He's been Cam's panic button all season long.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Why can't your first few sentences be true AND it also be true that Denver's defense was very good?

The fact is, Denver benefited from an AFC that was chock full of teams that had fatal flaws. The New England team that you state was lighting everyone up scored 10 points in Week 17 at Miami fighting for home field. The Steelers team that was lighting everyone up scored 18 points at Cincinnati WITH Antonio Brown, then 16 at Denver without him.

I'm sure as a fan you don't like things to be minimized, but Denver's defense absolutely won that game for them and they deserved to win. But it's also true that Carolina had over 300 yards on offense and really couldn't get out of their own way. It felt somehow like a dominant performance on defense for Denver, but at the same time a choke job by Cam and that offense.

NE gave the Dolphins that game. Their game plan of running the ball the entire first half didn't work.

Again, if everyone realized how good the Denver defense was and how many flaws everyone else had, why did everyone pick them to lose? Why were they 6.5 point underdogs In the Super Bowl and 3.5 point underdogs against the those "horrible" Patriots on their home field?

Simple. And again, it's always the excuses of "the other team choked" They held three terrific QB's to a 51% completion percentage in the playoffs. That isn't an accident.

As for the total yards. . . it goes back to what I've been saying ALL YEAR. It goes to the amount of plays the other teams get. Carolina ran 75 plays to Denver's 56. Carolina averaged 4.2 yards per play in this game and turned the ball over 4 times. You really want to use total yardage as why the Broncos defense wasn't that good and Carolina choked?

I use total yardage a lot in analysis. One team gains 350 yards and the other gains 220, most of the time we know who is going to win.

That's the amazing thing about this defense and why I've been so defensive of it. All year. From the first game where Baltimore had a chance to win the game to the Super Bowl when it was a 6 point game in the Super Bowl, the Denver defense has shut teams down and closed out games. And all year, after each game I suddenly hear how the other team had some huge flaw which Denver exploited. Isn't it kind of amazing the Broncos seem to be able to find the flaw in every freaking team? They beat the Patriots with a 3 man rush most of the game, they beat the Panthers and blitzed over 50% of the time.

Carolina didn't choke. They were outplayed by a better defense. Line them up again tomorrow and Carolina might win it. But I think it's obvious they wouldn't win it by blowing the Broncos out with Newton running through the helpless Broncos defense. That garbage ended yesterday.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Carolina didn't choke. They were outplayed by a better defense.

The two things aren't entirely automatically mutually exclusive afaic.

6 rushing attempts yesterday by Newton, averaging over 7 ypc. That's his fewest of this postseason, less than all but four of their games all season (3 of which were relative blowouts). While scheme may have taken some of that away, I felt throughout the game that he simply wasn't looking to run as much as possible ... and that might very well have been their best chance since nothing else was working particularly well.

How much of that was by their own design, how much of that was his mental outlook {shrug} I can't say. But for as strong a performance as the Denver defense had, I don't think he looked like himself from the get-go & that the stage might have gotten to ol' Superman a bit.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Again, if everyone realized how good the Denver defense was and how many flaws everyone else had, why did everyone pick them to lose? Why were they 6.5 point underdogs In the Super Bowl and 3.5 point underdogs against the those "horrible" Patriots on their home field?

Not true. Appx 60 percent of the money line action was on Denver and appx 40 percent of the spread action was on Denver.

We already discussed this after the Pats game. Because a lot of people on the FOF forum and the ESPN guys pick a certain way doesnt mean everyone thinks that way.

[Carman Bulldog]

As far as great defences go, in my opinion I don't see Denver's as being on the same level as team's such as the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2013 Seahawks. And while I never personally watched the 70's Steelers or the 85 Bears live, I'm guessing most wouldn't put them on that level either. If you want to put them on the next level below those teams, that's fine.

TroyF seems to tout their playoff play, but let's be realistic. The Steelers were an offensive based team without their best offensive player (and runner up for NFL Offensive Player of the Year), without their top two running backs on the depth chart and with a quarterback who had an injured arm negating his ability to thrown down field. New England was another team without any running attack and the difference in that game essentially came down to the New England kicker missing an extra point.

As for the Super Bowl, I think the Panthers offensive woes had as much to do with their inability to execute as it did with Denver's defence. And that's not trying to take away anything from Denver, who as always did a great job getting pressure on the quarterback. But even when he had time, Newton had some very poorly thrown balls and the Panthers receivers also had a number of bad drops (Cotchery had 44 regular season catches without a drop and then had 3 drops in the Super Bowl). Ultimately, Carolina didn't look ready for prime time and the game seemed like one of those situations where an up and coming team needs to learn how to lose before it learns how to win.

As for Manning, he definitely needs to hang them up. He clearly hasn't been the same player since the NFL instituted HGH testing (if you don't believe me, just check the split stats from immediately before and after testing was implemented). Not to derail this either, but it was interesting this week that it came out that Charlie Sly was contacted by Al Jazeera in early December and did not respond. Then on December 22nd, a couple of hired goons by Manning tracked down Sly at his parent's house and the following morning, Sly issued a statement recanting all of his claims. Those guys must have been fairly persuasive.

[Carman Bulldog]

DOLA, before I have to hear again how no one was picking Denver before the playoffs... If you would have asked me before the start of the playoffs if I thought Denver would win, the answer would have been no. Their offence is awful and I wouldn't have thought their defence was great enough to get past that.

With that said, before each game, I picked Denver to win all three of their games. More than a great defence, they just seemed like a team where everything came together for them. It really started with that Steeler comeback (I think the Chiefs would have been a bad matchup for Denver in the event that Cincy would have been able to hang on) which left the Steelers beat up to the point of not being able to put up a challenge. It also included breaks such as the Gostkowski missed extra point and the field goal miss by Gano and strange plays like that punt return last night. The ball also seemed to be bouncing their way (fumbles are historically a 50/50 proposition and they recovered 5 of 7 in the Super Bowl) and it seemed like most of the close officiating calls were also going their way. Their defence really had nothing to do with any of that.

If you were to replay the playoffs starting again from scratch, I definitely would not put them as the favourite and I think that eight other teams would have at minimum an equal shot of winning.

[revrew]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

As far as great defences go, in my opinion I don't see Denver's as being on the same level as team's such as the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2013 Seahawks. And while I never personally watched the 70's Steelers or the 85 Bears live, I'm guessing most wouldn't put them on that level either. If you want to put them on the next level below those teams, that's fine.

Interesting discussion. I would suggest that for one game, Denver played like any of those teams. I would suggest Denver has talent on par with most of those teams. Denver was the #1 D (without much help from their offense all year) and held the #1 Offense to 10 points in the SB. That's an achievement worthy of being an all-time great.

But I'll agree that the Denver D is below the 2000 Ravens and '85 Bears.

First of all, I DID watch the 85 Bears. And when you look at how dominating they were throughout the playoffs, I sincerely doubt we'll ever see another defense that good.

Seahawks were something else, too. I'd put the Broncos right there with 'em.

[RainMaker]

Did anyone else feel like CBS did a horrible job with their coverage? Felt like they never talked about injuries or anything impacting the game? I feel like if this was NBC Colinsworth would have been talking about the impact of losing Philly Brown to the passing game. Stewart's lack of explosiveness after the injury. How Denver's offense couldn't do anything after that first drive.

Instead they just wanted to tell stories and treated the game as an afterthought.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by revrew

First of all, I DID watch the 85 Bears. And when you look at how dominating they were throughout the playoffs, I sincerely doubt we'll ever see another defense that good.

This +100.

It was the only time in my life that you watched the defensive side of the ball pre-snap because they so much controlled the line of scrimmage, you always want to see how many yards the defense would 'gain' on the play.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Instead they just wanted to tell stories and treated the game as an afterthought.

I'd call that "know thy audience".

The game IS an afterthought (or just a sideshow) to a very large number of viewers. Remember, more people watched the halftime show last year than watched the game.

[TroyF]

The Broncos are one of the greatest defenses of all time. I don't think they'll ever get the credit for it, but that isn't my call. They had to deal with something none of those other defenses had to deal with. . . the Broncos offense.

2015 Broncos offense: 19th in scoring, 16th in yards, 3rd most turnovers, 30th in where the defense started each drive, 25th in average plays per drive on offense

2000 Ravens offense: 14th in scoring, 16th in yards, 9th fewest turnovers, 2nd in where the defense started each drive, 8th in average plays per drive on offense

The 85' Bears had a dominant offense in '85 in addition to that defense. It put teams behind quick in most games. It kept their defense rested and allowed them to simply turn it loose in most of their second halves.

The Bears played full halves with 20 point leads. Their offense rarely put them in a horrible spot and didn't do it a single time in the playoffs.

Please note, I'm NOT bashing the '85 Chicago Bears. It's the best defense I have ever seen and I would take them over the 2015 Broncos. But I would put the Broncos in the discussion. What they had to deal with this year by how horribly this offense played was a disgrace.

Whoever said they wouldn't make the Broncos favorites if the playoffs started again. . .I agree. I didn't make em favorites this time. The offense was TERRIBLE. I posted it in this thread. Tell me ONE thing they did well this year or in this playoffs?

Rushing - Horrible, Passing - Horrible, 3rd downs - Horrible, Short Yardage - Horrible.

Look, the best you can say about that team is they "only" turned the ball over 3 times in 3 games. 3rd down and 9, 5 minutes left in a 6 point game and the Broncos felt it was a much better option to punt the ball to the league MVP. I'm sorry, the Bears never had to deal with that kind of sustained pressure. Denver had to make calls like that virtually every game.

The funniest thing I saw about this Broncos season was a quick gif of a car sliding and almost going over the side of the road. It said something along the lines of "Haters gonna. . . oh crap, oh no, oh my god. . . HATE (as the car ends up back on four wheels and takes off)

I'll let it go at this point because I'm never going to convince anyone who isn't convinced anyway. I'll just say one last time. . . this defense was special. nothing they did this year surprised me. Nothing. They'll be good again next year, but they won't be anything like this. This was a series of events that come once in a teams existence. It won't happen again.

[PadresFan104]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Did anyone else feel like CBS did a horrible job with their coverage? Felt like they never talked about injuries or anything impacting the game? I feel like if this was NBC Colinsworth would have been talking about the impact of losing Philly Brown to the passing game. Stewart's lack of explosiveness after the injury. How Denver's offense couldn't do anything after that first drive.

Instead they just wanted to tell stories and treated the game as an afterthought.

Yep, felt exactly the same way. It was a poor broadcast.