Unofficial Official 2012-13 College Basketball Thread

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Vote on 30 second shot clock expected next week. They also will move up the first practice date and redefine foul calls to reduce level of physical play.

NCAA mulls shorter shot clock, starting basketball practice earlier in fall - Toledo Blade

NCAA OKs rule to move up start of practice - ESPN

[cartman]

The bad news keeps on coming for Mizzou and Frank Haith. His request to have his misconduct charges thrown out was denied.

NCAA panel: MU’s Frank Haith still faces misconduct charges - KansasCity.com

Now for the inevitable MBBF postings ignoring the content, and just making some inane comment about Kansas, Texas, the LHN, DeLoss Dodds, etc.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Vote on 30 second shot clock expected next week. They also will move up the first practice date and redefine foul calls to reduce level of physical play.

NCAA mulls shorter shot clock, starting basketball practice earlier in fall - Toledo Blade

NCAA OKs rule to move up start of practice - ESPN

I think I'm blind. I missed the part about redefining fouls and was wanting more details. That's a change that would actually do some good, assuming the fouls are actually called and we don't just have the "one month of tighter games followed by incessant bitching and a return to the norm".

SI

[molson]

This article is maybe a little too over-excited, still, I would love to see O'bannon's suit continue to gain momentum and make everyone crap their pants some at least. It certainly has the potential to be a game-changer, though we're probably years of litigation away still.

The Lawsuit That Could Bring Down the NCAA - Bloomberg

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

This article is maybe a little too over-excited, still, I would love to see O'bannon's suit continue to gain momentum and make everyone crap their pants some at least. It certainly has the potential to be a game-changer, though we're probably years of litigation away still.

The Lawsuit That Could Bring Down the NCAA - Bloomberg

I still can't foresee how this plays out. If the players somehow win, it's a huge game changer but not how people think it is. "Hey, great, poor college football player who can't buy a burger (except with the money hes getting under the table) gets paid a $5K per semester stipend" isn't the real result.

It will gut non-revenue sports as all the remaining money gets poured into a football and basketball arms race, even moreson than already. And that's before the even larger legal storm that is Title IX. Great, you want Johnny Manziel to get paid. By law so will Brittney Griner. No big, deal, right? She's massively talented and deserves to be paid. How about the 50 person girls crew team, 10 person girls water polo team, and that is brought in to help offset the 85+ scholarships that football is paid? Now we're talking

Kansas has, for instance, 5 sports with men and women: basketball, golf, cross country, track and field, and baseball/softball. They only have one other men's sport in football and it's offset by women's rowing, soccer, swiming and diving, tennis, and volleyball. So, yeah, if you want to pay each football player a $10K stipend, then each of those teams get it, too. And you wouldn't be able to just give it to them you'd have to give it across the board to all athletes. And, at that point: are they even part of the college any more or should we just separate the Athletics Corporations from the universities?

SI

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I still can't foresee how this plays out. If the players somehow win, it's a huge game changer but not how people think it is. "Hey, great, poor college football player who can't buy a burger (except with the money hes getting under the table) gets paid a $5K per semester stipend" isn't the real result.

It will gut non-revenue sports as all the remaining money gets poured into a football and basketball arms race, even moreson than already. And that's before the even larger legal storm that is Title IX. Great, you want Johnny Manziel to get paid. By law so will Brittney Griner. No big, deal, right? She's massively talented and deserves to be paid. How about the 50 person girls crew team, 10 person girls water polo team, and that is brought in to help offset the 85+ scholarships that football is paid? Now we're talking

Kansas has, for instance, 5 sports with men and women: basketball, golf, cross country, track and field, and baseball/softball. They only have one other men's sport in football and it's offset by women's rowing, soccer, swiming and diving, tennis, and volleyball. So, yeah, if you want to pay each football player a $10K stipend, then each of those teams get it, too. And you wouldn't be able to just give it to them you'd have to give it across the board to all athletes. And, at that point: are they even part of the college any more or should we just separate the Athletics Corporations from the universities?

SI

The paying players debate will continue on indefinitely, but I'm interesting in the angle regarding players being able to pursue their own licensing deals. That could be the way around Title IX and the concerns about public universities spending (more) money on superstar athletes.

Edit: Everybody talks about how if you pay one player you have to pay everyone - if that's a correct interpretation of Title IX, I'd love to see a federal lawsuit alleging that schools are violating Title IX by providing under-the-table money and benefits to big-shot recruits right now. Just because it's against NCAA rules doesn't mean the practice is immune from federal law.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

The paying players debate will continue on indefinitely, but I'm interesting in the angle regarding players being able to pursue their own licensing deals. That could be the way around Title IX and the concerns about public universities spending (more) money on superstar athletes.

Edit: Everybody talks about how if you pay one player you have to pay everyone - if that's a correct interpretation of Title IX, I'd love to see a federal lawsuit alleging that schools are violating Title IX by providing under-the-table money and benefits to big-shot recruits right now. Just because it's against NCAA rules doesn't mean the practice is immune from federal law.

I don't know what the "correct interpretation of Title IX" is as that will be left up to the court. If you were to listen to strong Title IX advocates, they would even point out that there is nothing that says you have to spend equally. However, the equal opportunity clause has been used in court to extract money. For instance, LSU lost a case where they provided funding for a men's team to go to a tournament but denied a women's team. I extrapolate that out to be "if you pay men's players, you have to pay women's players".

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

The bad news keeps on coming for Mizzou and Frank Haith. His request to have his misconduct charges thrown out was denied.

NCAA panel: MU’s Frank Haith still faces misconduct charges - KansasCity.com

Now for the inevitable MBBF postings ignoring the content, and just making some inane comment about Kansas, Texas, the LHN, DeLoss Dodds, etc.

I'm not sure what I'm missing here. The judge felt that it wasn't her place to throw out the charges before the hearing. It's nothing more than a legal ruling that he'll have to go through the NCAA process. It's not really a surprise.

What will likely happen is that the NCAA will make their punishment (or lack thereof) and then Miami and the associated coaches will refile their lawsuit to challenge the ruling. As the judge noted in her ruling, they would then have a situation where she would have something to rule on.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Looks like Oregon may be the prime competition to the UW landing Mike Moser. He's apparently visiting Oregon this Friday and then heading up to Seattle on Sunday.

And Oregon it is

[panerd]

Originally Posted by cartman

The bad news keeps on coming for Mizzou and Frank Haith. His request to have his misconduct charges thrown out was denied.

NCAA panel: MU’s Frank Haith still faces misconduct charges - KansasCity.com

Now for the inevitable MBBF postings ignoring the content, and just making some inane comment about Kansas, Texas, the LHN, DeLoss Dodds, etc.

Haith doesn't tie into Texas at all? I could have sworn he learned most of his tricks from Rick Barnes. Unlike MBBF I don't care for the guy, he seems dirty to me.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good discussion of changes likely to happen for next year.......

NCAA set to vote on key rule changes; shot clock likely to remain - CBSSports.com

[Kodos]

Big Ten/ACC Challenge matchups have been set.

Good chance to learn how to play against the zone for IU.

http://espnmediazone...nge-on-dec-3-4/

Dec.3

IU @ Syracuse

UM @ Duke

Iowa vs ND

Minny vs FSU

PSU @ Pitt

ILL @ GT


Dec.4

MSU vs UNC

OSU vs Maryland

Neb vs Miami

Wisky @ UVA

PU vs BC

NW @ NC State

[Logan]

It never ends.

Coach Eddie Jordan Didn't Graduate From Rutgers, Despite School's Claim

Either he lied, and we didn't bother to check our own records, or the school bullshitted just to make a former player's return to the school sound better.

I say he's gone by Monday.

[Young Drachma]

What a fucking clown show.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

It never ends.

Coach Eddie Jordan Didn't Graduate From Rutgers, Despite School's Claim

Either he lied, and we didn't bother to check our own records, or the school bullshitted just to make a former player's return to the school sound better.

I say he's gone by Monday.

Gone by Monday? Why? Because he didn't actually graduate?

Why would that matter for a basketball coach? He did attend Rutgers, and played for Rutgers. It is his alma mater. He is perfectly qualified as a coach given his career history.

If Rutgers terminates him over this, Jordan is not the issue, Rutgers is.

[digamma]

George O'Leary, Tom Williams, and a whole host of others say hello.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Gone by Monday? Why? Because he didn't actually graduate?

Why would that matter for a basketball coach? He did attend Rutgers, and played for Rutgers. It is his alma mater. He is perfectly qualified as a coach given his career history.

If Rutgers terminates him over this, Jordan is not the issue, Rutgers is.

There isn't a college in America that would hire a coach without a bachelor's even a JUCO won't hire a coach without a bachelor's degree. Doesn't matter what it's in, even. But it just doesn't happen these days. He has to have one. ESPECIALLY in a D1 program. Just can't not. Doesn't matter if it shouldn't matter.

He simply can't stay if he hasn't earned a degree from somewhere. Unlike O'Leary, it's doubtful that Jordan ever "lied" on his resume about having a Rutgers degree. He is an alum, because he went there and that definition is usually up to the school to decide anyway. But the lack of a degree part seems...odd that he wouldn't figure it'd come up, but then, he probably figured if they wanted him they knew it and didn't care.

So yeah it's all on Rutgers that blew this. What a joke of an athletic department.

[Logan]

The transcript that Deadspin has is dated May 6, 2013 and has a line at the bottom saying it "shall not be released to a third party without the written authorization of the student" so I'd love to know how they got it.

[digamma]

Sidney Lowe also had to finish his degree through like a correspondent's course or something before he could be hired by NC State.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by digamma

Sidney Lowe also had to finish his degree through like a correspondent's course or something before he could be hired by NC State.

As did Mike Davis with Indiana, as Twitter tells me.

And CR, there are also states where you cannot be a full-time coach at a school if you don't have a degree. I have no idea if NJ is one of them.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Unlike O'Leary, it's doubtful that Jordan ever "lied" on his resume about having a Rutgers degree.

Actually, I think this is pretty comparable to O'Leary, who didn't actively lie either. He just allowed this incorrect bio to be passed from school to school and the "lie" built upon itself. Same thing would happen here.

[molson]

Originally Posted by digamma

Actually, I think this is pretty comparable to O'Leary, who didn't actively lie either. He just allowed this incorrect bio to be passed from school to school and the "lie" built upon itself. Same thing would happen here.

Except Rutgers maybe has more of incentive to just look the other way here and hope it doesn't blow up. Though, that didn't work particularly well last time.

[Logan]

0% chance it doesn't blow up; ESPN has been lingering around the school waiting to pounce.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by digamma

Actually, I think this is pretty comparable to O'Leary, who didn't actively lie either. He just allowed this incorrect bio to be passed from school to school and the "lie" built upon itself. Same thing would happen here.

He's an alum, not a graduate. I don't think Jordan even said he was a graduate.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Logan

The transcript that Deadspin has is dated May 6, 2013 and has a line at the bottom saying it "shall not be released to a third party without the written authorization of the student" so I'd love to know how they got it.

Oh you know some asshat in there was ready to out him when they discovered who they hired, probably not happy with the way they spend on coaches, etc. Leaked it for maximum damage.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Oh you know some asshat in there was ready to out him when they discovered who they hired, probably not happy with the way they spend on coaches, etc. Leaked it for maximum damage.

I hope Jordan sues the shit out of them then. And I forgot that the writer of the story is a Rutgers grad (allegedly, I guess I should say).

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

He's an alum, not a graduate. I don't think Jordan even said he was a graduate.

Looking at this from the Deadspin piece:

The third line of his new bio on the Rutgers website says it all:

RU’s all-time leader in both assists (585) and steals (220), "Fast Eddie" scored 1,632 career points and earned honorable mention All-American honors as a senior in 1977 before earning a degree in health and physical education.

Whether he said it or not, the O'Leary argument is that he owns it.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by digamma

Looking at this from the Deadspin piece:



Whether he said it or not, the O'Leary argument is that he owns it.

Ok, I stand corrected. O'Leary totally in play. I didn't read closely enough. He didn't write that bio, but yeah, has to own that.

[Logan]

Weird since the Deadspin article mentions he earned 103 credits, but the transcript adds up to more than 200. Which would make him a PhD at some schools.

DC, this sounds like every situation I ever dealt with in the administration of this school. The RU Screw lives.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Logan

Weird since the Deadspin article mentions he earned 103 credits, but the transcript adds up to more than 200. Which would make him a PhD at some schools.

DC, this sounds like every situation I ever dealt with in the administration of this school. The RU Screw lives.

Oh wow. So basically he didn't have the credits applied to anything to actually ever get issued a degree? Because that'd be their way out of it.

But man, if this is what it is...fuck these guys. I do wonder who they'll get after this to replace him, probably overpay someone who won't be as into it. But man if this isn't a huge clusterfuck.

[cuervo72]

Hey, Doug Collins shares my birthday!

/was going through list of other Wizards coaching failures

[Young Drachma]

Registrar's office says new Rutgers hoops coach Eddie Jordan didn't graduate - ESPN New York

Sounds like RU is doubling down, saying the position doesn't require him to have a bachelor's. I know that a few years back, the University of Wyoming reversed a previous policy of requiring pretty much anyone working at the college in a staff position to have a bachelor's because it was causing them some recruiting problems for lower positions, especially when it was people who had the experience but never got degrees (a fairly common occurrence in Wyoming) or only had associates degrees or were "a few credits short" or whatever.

If Rutgers doubles down, seems like they'll fix the clerical situation, Jordan will finish the classes that he needs to take and carry on. Will be interesting to see if the media is tired of rag-dolling Rutgers or if they'll drag this out like they did Rice and force Rutgers hand again.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Registrar's office says new Rutgers hoops coach Eddie Jordan didn't graduate - ESPN New York

Sounds like RU is doubling down, saying the position doesn't require him to have a bachelor's. I know that a few years back, the University of Wyoming reversed a previous policy of requiring pretty much anyone working at the college in a staff position to have a bachelor's because it was causing them some recruiting problems for lower positions, especially when it was people who had the experience but never got degrees (a fairly common occurrence in Wyoming) or only had associates degrees or were "a few credits short" or whatever.

If Rutgers doubles down, seems like they'll fix the clerical situation, Jordan will finish the classes that he needs to take and carry on. Will be interesting to see if the media is tired of rag-dolling Rutgers or if they'll drag this out like they did Rice and force Rutgers hand again.

I know that Mizzou has never hired Larry Drew for the head coaching job on more than one occasion over the last decade for that same reason. He's an ideal candidate, but without a degree, the program rules don't allow it. It's also awfully hard to convince a kid academics are important when the coach's past doesn't indicate it's important.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Not that it particularly makes a giant f. but fwiw

ATLANTA -- Georgia Tech coach Brian Gregory says junior guard Brandon Reed plans to transfer to another school to complete his eligibility.

Gregory said Friday that Reed will transfer after he graduates at the end of the summer term.

Reed, a strong 3-point shooter, started Georgia Tech's first 15 games and averaged 5.2 points for the season. He lost playing time when freshman Chris Bolden, another strong shooter, moved into Gregory's starting lineup.

Reed started 43 games in two seasons and averaged 6.4 points.

[Young Drachma]

Having a college degree is not a requirement to be a coach in the NCAA. "Those standards are established by the schools that are doing the hiring, not the NCAA," an NCAA spokesperson told NJ.com. In a statement Friday, Rutgers admitted being in error when it claimed Jordan had earned a degree, but said it won't affect his job status since "neither Rutgers nor the NCAA requires a head coach to hold a baccalaureate degree."

"His athletic skills and leadership and his professional accomplishments have been a source of pride for Rutgers for more than three decades," Jordan said. "We are excited to have him as our men's basketball coach, and we look forward to many winning seasons."

Rutgers admits Eddie Jordan never graduated - College Football - College Basketball - Rumors - FanNation

[Jon]

I'm curious how Deadspin got the transcript as its disclosure may violate school policy and/or federal law without Jordan's consent.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Jon

I'm curious how Deadspin got the transcript as its disclosure may violate school policy and/or federal law without Jordan's consent.

An obvious leak, but this is elephant in the room that no one is mentioning re: Deadspin's source who sent this along in an effort to ruin them. That person is going to get found and won't have a job much longer. If it were this easy to do an FOIA request on someone's grades, parents would be able to get their kids grades sent to them as they're not now and all of the handringing about Obama's grades from Columbia would've been able to be obtained a lot easier.

So yeah, whatever happened here wasn't kosher.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

An obvious leak, but this is elephant in the room that no one is mentioning re: Deadspin's source who sent this along in an effort to ruin them. That person is going to get found and won't have a job much longer. If it were this easy to do an FOIA request on someone's grades, parents would be able to get their kids grades sent to them as they're not now and all of the handringing about Obama's grades from Columbia would've been able to be obtained a lot easier.

So yeah, whatever happened here wasn't kosher.

UMass had this happen back during the Final Four run or the preceding year when we made the Elite 8. Basically, the Boston Globe got midterm GPA's of players, and published the bad ones (keep in mind, these were mid-term of a semester advisory grades, and not the final grades - for the record every player was eligible after the season, make of that what you will.) The university effectively chose to whitewash it, and didn't open any investigation or pursue legal action into which member of the university staff leaked them. I think it's 50/50 if Rutgers pursues an investigation or chooses to ignore it so the story goes away faster.

[cartman]

The Big 12 and the SEC have announced an annual basketball challenge, ala the Big 10-ACC one that has existed for a while.

Big 12, SEC Announce Men’s Basketball Challenge - Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

The Big 12 and the SEC have announced an annual basketball challenge, ala the Big 10-ACC one that has existed for a while.

Big 12, SEC Announce Men’s Basketball Challenge - Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site

The matchups are pretty bad overall. Hilarious that they decided to stick Mizzou against WVU. All those options to get some big draws with the Mizzou matchup and they decide on that. Easy win, but doesn't help Mizzou's RPI at all.

Really should have found a way to match up the best and worst top to bottom to make it more interesting and competitive.

[tarcone]

Kansas-Florida is really the only interesting game.

I love that Iowa gets ND. We need to boost our competition. And this season it looks like the schedule is getting tough. One more tough game to add and we have a very good schedule.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The matchups are pretty bad overall. Hilarious that they decided to stick Mizzou against WVU. All those options to get some big draws with the Mizzou matchup and they decide on that. Easy win, but doesn't help Mizzou's RPI at all.

Really should have found a way to match up the best and worst top to bottom to make it more interesting and competitive.

Oh good, a MBBF sports prediction!

Guess there is no need for WVU fans to even tune in to this one (it will be hard not to, given that we have never matched up with a program or coach as formidable as Missouri and Frank "I've been a head coach for nine years and have three NCAA appearances" Haith). Sorry about ruining MIZZOU!'s RPI in May -- that is unfortunate.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Oh good, a MBBF sports prediction!

Guess there is no need for WVU fans to even tune in to this one (it will be hard not to, given that we have never matched up with a program or coach as formidable as Missouri and Frank "I've been a head coach for nine years and have three NCAA appearances" Haith). Sorry about ruining MIZZOU!'s RPI in May -- that is unfortunate.

I'm more than happy to collect on a friendly wager if interested.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The matchups are pretty bad overall. Hilarious that they decided to stick Mizzou against WVU. All those options to get some big draws with the Mizzou matchup and they decide on that. Easy win, but doesn't help Mizzou's RPI at all.

Really should have found a way to match up the best and worst top to bottom to make it more interesting and competitive.

please stop "helping"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Kansas-Florida is really the only interesting game.

Yeah, after looking at the pairings, the name "Who Gives A Fuck Classic" did sorta spring to mind.

Maybe they're planning to revenue share from the Jerry Dome game.

[Matthean]

It must be all of those tourney wins Missouri has compared to WVU as of late. Oh wait...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Matthean

It must be all of those tourney wins Missouri has compared to WVU as of late. Oh wait...

Mizzou's a better program right now than WVU and Mizzou will beat them next year. I don't think I'm saying anything there that's incorrect. If anyone wants a friendly wager, I'm more than happy to back up what I'm saying.

(Insert $10,000 bet from Mitt comments here.)

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, after looking at the pairings, the name "Who Gives A Fuck Classic" did sorta spring to mind.

Maybe they're planning to revenue share from the Jerry Dome game.

Yeah I don't know how they came up with the pairings at all. At first with KU/FLA I thought it might be based on last years standings but obviously USC(e)/OSU negates that. So what about...

A&M/Texas
KU/Mizzou or at least Mizzou/Old Big 8 school
KU/UK
ARK/Texas or OU
KSU/USC (Frank Martin)
WVU/UK or TN (Don't know about this one I am just going off geography)

Not going to side with MBBF on WVU being an easy game but definitely agree with him they missed the mark with not having Mizzou play one of it's 100-year rivalries. Obviously with A&M playing OU it isn't some directive from the Big 12. Agree with tarcone that KU/FLA is about the only intruiging game (maybe Baylor/UK)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another non-con deal signed for Mizzou. Playing North Carolina St. in Raleigh this fall with a return trip to Columbia in fall 2014.

[Wolfpack]

From what I read, they just kinda threw it together like Monty Python credits. A couple had been previously scheduled and they integrated them into the mix and then I guess it was availability after that. Schedule isn't concentrated like the ACC/Big 10 either.

I think the notion is to get this moving towards the ACC/Big 10 challenge format starting next year (2014-15). This was more to just get the idea started.

It's probably just going to be an excuse to have Kansas and Kentucky play against each other almost every year, though.