The Trump Presidency 2.0

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Just saying that if information was coming out regularly that I was a pedophile, the economy was tanking, our increasingly unpopular ally was finishing up their final solution and now bombing our other ally, there was a coverup over a medical issue I was having, and approval ratings were in the absolute shitter, this would be a really convenient distraction. Especially if the goal was to push toward a fascist state with military intervention and violence in cities.

Not to mention if the country I'm subservient to was seeing a massive decline in youth support and the guy with the most youth reach was starting to turn against them, it makes quite a threat to others. One of his friends did come out and say he thought he would be a target if he shifted his views on that country.

Still, the most logical theory is that it's just our gun crazed violent culture rearing it's head yet again mixed with complete and utter police incompetence. But it sure did line up perfectly for some interests.

I think your thinking has left you deep in the weeds. If there was a conspiracy like you're suggesting they would have a patsy set up and ready to go. They are under tremendous pressure right now to produce a face, and that they don't have a person already in custody is telling that they probably weren't in on any sort of set up.


re firings:
It's very difficult to not discuss this, or have opinions in public anymore. It's like freedom of speech has ended for half of us, and it's all part of the game plan for the other half, no matter what is said. There's not much I could add other than what I told my kids. Nobody should be a victim of gun violence if there's any way we can help it. One side seems set on being opposed, while one side is looking for any possible solution. You decide.

[PilotMan]

Meanwhile, GOP lawmakers in my district have called Dems the party of 'insanity, demonic possession and radical extremism'.


So that's normal, and opens a two way discussion doesn't it?


I don't even know where you go in a discussion from that.



edit


digging a bit deeper into this the actual quote from the elected rep in my district is:

"America is under attack by the left. Leftism is a terroristic, death worshipping (sic) cult. Every semblance of it must be eradicated from this nation if we are ever to be at peace."


he goes on to say later:

"The left is waging literal war on Americans. Don't appease the left. Destroy this death worshipping (sic) , terroristic cult. America will never be the same."


So I guess, that's taking the entire conversation down to a much more manageable, conversational level with no violent rhetoric at all.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I think your thinking has left you deep in the weeds. If there was a conspiracy like you're suggesting they would have a patsy set up and ready to go. They are under tremendous pressure right now to produce a face, and that they don't have a person already in custody is telling that they probably weren't in on any sort of set up.

There was a guy who immediately shouted "and I'd do it again" over and over right after the shooting. He was the first suspect taken in and eventually charged with obstruction of justice. Not a patsy but an incredible distraction for the shooter to get away.

Again though, I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think cops are just really dumb. There is video of people going up to the crime scene and taking blood soaked merchandise. The fact cops didn't secure that area tells you how poorly trained they are. And the head of the FBI seems to be treating the investigation like Redditors did after the Boston Marathon bombing.

But after the leak about trans messages on bullets (lol) being thrown out there for right-wing outlets, I wouldn't put much trust in anything coming from the FBI at this point. It's run by some podcasters who have spent the past few months running cover for a pedophile ring, The shooter conveniently left his rifle in the woods just like Luigi conveniently dropped a bag of bullets in a park. Political fuckery and incompetence creates this blurred reality.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Arles

What are the odds this guy was a hired gun? So even if we find him, he's going to be some ex-military with no real ties to anything.

you think maybe Corbin Dallas?

[CrimsonFox]

I had to look up who Nick Fuentes was (just like I had to look up who charlie kirk was). SO you think this is a super maga shooter?

My first thought was a conservative republican...but moreso a self proclaimed independent...either that or a magat that got pissed at a cause Kirk talked about on the antimaga side.

[Drake]

I'm going to preface what I'm about to say by admitting that I didn't really know who Charlie Kirk was. I knew the name and that he was a political activist. I knew that Turning Point USA existed. I didn't know that it was Kirk's thing.

I tell you that in order to say that when I heard he'd been shot, it didn't move my emotional needle any more than one of the daily school shooting stories (how awful is that, right?) But it literally fell into that category of sad stories of things that happen to people I don't know.

I am flummoxed by the internet reaction, by the visceral responses. I didn't cry as much as some of these people when my mom died (fuck cancer). It just feels so over-the-top.

Is it just because I'm so out-of-the-loop that I didn't have either positive or negative reaction? I feel weirdly out of step with what the culture seems to want me to feel.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

SO you think this is a super maga shooter?

I didn't see anyone say that. I (and others) said it seems possible.

[JPhillips]

Yes, one of a few different possibilities. He had enemies, but most of these shootings don't have a coherent ideology. There's often no rational center to the irrational act.

We'll find out at some point.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Why would the killer just leave the rifle in the woods when he'd already gotten that far without being caught? Doesn't that make him easier to catch?

He knows he is going to get caught. He ditched the weapon so he wouldn't get caught leaving the scene. I doubt he has any delusion that he is not going to be identified. It is just a matter of when and will he be captured or killed on his own terms.

[Danny]

I hate gun violence so I do feel some sense of sadness from the assassination and Im 100% against any violence in reaction to words.

I am far more sad at the state of the country with the reaction this is getting when the same people couldnt care less when kids are shot up in schools every week

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Danny

I hate gun violence so I do feel some sense of sadness from the assassination and Im 100% against any violence in reaction to words.

I am far more sad at the state of the country with the reaction this is getting when the same people couldnt care less when kids are shot up in schools every week

Literally the same day.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Again though, I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think cops are just really dumb. There is video of people going up to the crime scene and taking blood soaked merchandise. The fact cops didn't secure that area tells you how poorly trained they are.

My wife watches a lot of murder shows, and I’ve learned that:

1. A lot of murders happen in rural or small towns where “this sort of thing doesn’t happen in places like this”
2. In a lot of these places the cops are absolute chucklefucks who have no idea how to conduct murder investigations.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

My wife watches a lot of murder shows, and I’ve learned that:

1. A lot of murders happen in rural or small towns where “this sort of thing doesn’t happen in places like this”
2. In a lot of these places the cops are absolute chucklefucks who have no idea how to conduct murder investigations.

So you're saying she watched Murder , She Wrote reruns

[Ghost Econ]

Republicans are introducing a resolution to have Kirk loe on state in the capital rotunda.

These people are ghoulish in their opportunism. They really, really want to use this to push us over the Nazi hill.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Drake

Is it just because I'm so out-of-the-loop that I didn't have either positive or negative reaction? I feel weirdly out of step with what the culture seems to want me to feel.

I think you answer your own question when you said this.

But it literally fell into that category of sad stories of things that happen to people I don't know.

I think being out of the loop explains what you would be stunned by the responses though. Kirk's target(no pun intended) audience were teenagers and young adults. Add in the politics and organized religion of today and what/who he and they felt was the opposition and yes you get the responses that you have been seeing.

[RainMaker]

I read about TPUSA years ago and it showed their target audience was more boomers and Gen X according to traffic data. They have a real tiny presence on most campuses. The concept is you send a 30 year old to debate a 19 year old with blue hair so you can show your older audience how indoctrinated all the woke kids are.

And doing some more research today on the beef between Kirk and Fuentes, it seems to be an astroturf movement vs a more organic movement. Kirk is funded by a few billionaires heavily tied in with the Republican establishment. He can't criticize Trump and has to more or less toe the party line. The Fuentes people don't care about optics much and are not really in the business of making Mike Johnson seem cool. They hate what they hate.

It's kind of similar to the divide you see on the left in a way. There was a recent Wired story showing a lot of influencers being paid by the Dems to provide positive coverage and steer clear of issues like Gaza. Basically astroturfed activism. People on the left don't care about maintaining the image of Kamala Harris and Chuck Schumer.

Now how the Fuentes-Kirk feud turns violent, I don't know. Fuentes fans seem to be mostly losers and outcasts in society which does breed extremism. Especially when you have a leader filling you with violent rhetoric at every turn.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

NYTimes has a senior law enforcement source saying the reports about trans and anti-fascist ideology aren't accurate.

They're now reporting it's just a standard arrow stamp from the manufacturer which is on most ammunition. The ATF is either incredibly fucking stupid or lied to spread a narrative.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I read about TPUSA years ago and it showed their target audience was more boomers and Gen X according to traffic data. They have a real tiny presence on most campuses. The concept is you send a 30 year old to debate a 19 year old with blue hair so you can show your older audience how indoctrinated all the woke kids are.

My son told me there was a huge prayer circle around the flagpole in front of his high school praying and mourning Kirk's death. I asked one of the administrators I know who works the drop off process in the morning how many students were there and her estimate was around 150 students. I know that seen played throughout local high schools in the area.

Whether the goal to show the old people how woke the young people were, I don't think his influence among the young people can be denied. The appeal for the boomers and Gen X was he was next IMO. Unlike all of the others, Kirk had the charisma for people to see him as the one who is next in line.
I compare it to the current Royal Family in the UK. While others may get to where the crown in 2026 and 2028, Kirk was the one who was seen as the rightful heir to the crown so to speak in a similar manner as King Charles is seen by many as mainly a place holder in between the Queen Elizabeth and inevitable King William reign.

I agree with the characterization of the Kirk/Fuentes factions. Obviously, we can't say that it has turned violent at this point but violence is inevitable when you have groups who are pushing a alpha/beta and who will submit to who narrative clash with one another. At some point, some in the both groups are going to move on from talking about it to being about it.

[Ksyrup]

I'm sure this has no bearing on the clown show at the FBI and its inability to even identify, let alone catch, this person yet.

High-ranking FBI job losses disproportionately hurt women, people of color

This article is from early August...

In the most recent example, FBI leaders last week forced the resignation of a decorated female Pakistani American counterterrorism agent who was appointed in February to run the Salt Lake City field office, one current and two former FBI officials tell MSNBC.

[Ben E Lou]

Trump says they have apprehended the shooter.

[Ghost Econ]

I think a lot of people our age don't realize how fucked the next generations are. I grew up in the south where it was basically a constant Jesus Campcand the kids now are waaaaay worse.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I read about TPUSA years ago and it showed their target audience was more boomers and Gen X according to traffic data. They have a real tiny presence on most campuses. The concept is you send a 30 year old to debate a 19 year old with blue hair so you can show your older audience how indoctrinated all the woke kids are.

Could be the target audience, but it also could be the writer of the piece you read just didn't get it. A few anecdotes:

• My wife is Gen X, educated, runs in non-MAGA but theologically conservative Christian circles, pays moderate attention to politics. Votes in every general election, most primaries. When I told her of the shooting, she didn't even recognize the name and just went right back to what she was doing, but...
• ...about 5 minutes later, we got a text in the family group chat from the 16yo. On the way home from school, she'd gotten a call from a friend telling her of the shooting. She was less than 10 minutes from home, but it was such big news to her that rather than just coming on home, she pulled over into a random neighborhood and sat there for the next 39 minutes reading about it, texting us, texting friends, called us a couple of times, etc. (She called before it was announced that he was dead.)
• Mainly because of the ways I volunteer through my church, I have a disproportionate number of 15-30yos in my social media feeds. Given their age, their engagement heavily skews towards Instagram, which isn't typically a platform where people post about politics, and that holds through for this group; it's extremely rare for me to see them post anything remotely in the political realm. But in the last couple of days, they have been ALL OVER this incident, some on either side.
• A very conservative relative on my wife's side of the family posted "All of us adults usually have that one event in the news that we experienced as children that we remember and maybe took away a little bit of our child like innocence.I remember the shuttle disaster because I was home sick and saw it live. Today is that day for my sweet boy. The news of today’s killing of Charlie Kirk has left a mark on him. I feel bad that any of our children experience the stuff that is happening in the world today. Love you family and keep them close." I have every reason to believe that she is not exaggerating. Her son is.....13 years old.

I'm not saying that older adults don't pay attention to Kirk; I'd suspect that my wife is an outlier for not even recognizing his name. I AM saying that in my little corner of the world, it certainly appears that among people who aren't otherwise engaging with politics, he appears to have had a MUCH more significant reach with the younger crowd. I guess to put it succinctly, I'd argue that he was generally a political figure, but also was an "influencer," the latter of course being a much bigger deal in the under-30ish crowd.

[Ghost Econ]

New conference saying they have the shooter. 4Chan says they're trans, but I guess we'll see.

[cuervo72]

Eh, my wife didn't really know who he was either.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

New conference saying they have the shooter. 4Chan says they're trans, but I guess we'll see.

I mean, their assignment was very likely "find a trans person to pin this on."

[Ben E Lou]

Dola: And I guess to add to the thought that he reaches otherwise not-as-political younger folks: upon further thought, I just realized that the people in the 40sih and up crowd I've seen posting about it on socials are pretty much all people who have a history of posting about political stuff. So again it feels more like to me that if you're 50 and pay attention to politics, you probably know who Charlie Kirk was, but if you're just any average 20yo, you probably know who Charlie Kirk was.

[Ben E Lou]

Lolz...not a dola.

[Ghost Econ]

You're too used to being on the slow board.

[cuervo72]

Latency is the new timestamp bug.

[miked]

Boy, if only they pulled over to check it out and mourn about it when a school gets shot up.

[CrimsonFox]

Its gonna be a friggin circus

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I read about TPUSA years ago and it showed their target audience was more boomers and Gen X according to traffic data.

Maybe. Kirk's rise was aided by his acolytes, mostly young men, editing his takedowns into TikToks and distributing those widely with "Kirk owns the libtards" titles.

My sons (14 & 17) absolutely knew about him and we have occasional discussions at the dinner table that clearly emanate from these TikToks. To whit: make a ridiculous statement ("Canada's health care system doesn't work at all"), and then be surprised when it's easily refuted ("Canada's health care system is among the top in the world for outcomes and furthermore is available to all people, unlike in the United States") because they're expecting Kirk's arguments to be airtight when in fact it's the selective editing (not that much is needed when you're dunking on 20-year-old college students) that does most of the work.

A microcosm, yet again, of how social media is making everyone a lot dumber.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The ATF is either incredibly fucking stupid or lied to spread a narrative.

Why not both?

[Ksyrup]

Trump making sure he gets to make the announcement of the arrest on Fox. What's next? A Dating Game-style reveal of the killer's identity at 8pm tonight?

[Ghost Econ]

Twitter says Democratic socialist... but they named and doxxed and innocent person before and don't care, so it's not like it matters to them.

[Ksyrup]

Interesting...

Governor Cox has said cryptic messages were engraved on the shell casings recovered with the rifle believed to be used by the shooter.

Authorities had yet to release the exact spelling of the messages, which Cox read phonetically. Their meaning was not immediately clear.

One spent shell case read: “Notices, bulges OWO what’s this?”

Cox said three unfired shell cases read:

“Hey fascist! Catch! Up arrow symbol, righ arrow symbol, and three down arrow symbols”
“Oh Bella Ciao, Bella Ciao, Ciao, Ciao, Ciao”
“If you read this you are gay, LMAO”

[Ghost Econ]

anti-Nazi slogans, which I guess conservatives will say is worse than being a nazi

[Mota]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Maybe. Kirk's rise was aided by his acolytes, mostly young men, editing his takedowns into TikToks and distributing those widely with "Kirk owns the libtards" titles.

My sons (14 & 17) absolutely knew about him and we have occasional discussions at the dinner table that clearly emanate from these TikToks. To whit: make a ridiculous statement ("Canada's health care system doesn't work at all"), and then be surprised when it's easily refuted ("Canada's health care system is among the top in the world for outcomes and furthermore is available to all people, unlike in the United States") because they're expecting Kirk's arguments to be airtight when in fact it's the selective editing (not that much is needed when you're dunking on 20-year-old college students) that does most of the work.

A microcosm, yet again, of how social media is making everyone a lot dumber.



Why not both?

Kirk was an interesting combination to debate against.
Super confident and quick thinker
Also didn't mind lying

You'll never win an argument with him, because he'll just say something to refute you, regardless of whether it's true or not. It'll always be a dunk on you, because he could say it with 100% confidence.

Debates involving Kilmar Abrego Garcia, he just said the guy was MS-13 and therefore a terrorist (which I don't think has been proven), and then says "do you support terrorists?", which of course no one does. And then you get the "ANOTHER LIBTARD PWNED" posts of it, just like you said.

[CrimsonFox]

[JPhillips]

Sounds like all of the slogans are video game/meme culture, specifically Helldivers.

Debate culture is just MMA with words. The point isn't understanding, it's dominance/submission.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Sounds like all of the slogans are video game/meme culture, specifically Helldivers.

Debate culture is just MMA with words. The point isn't understanding, it's dominance/submission.

OwO

[miami_fan]

I smell a comeback for the "it's the video games' fault" crew.

[Ksyrup]

RFK has already been out there with video game talk, even before this killing.

[CrimsonFox]

lol Patel is bragging how great he was at catching the shooter...when the guy's father talked him into turning himself in and drove him to the police himself. Which is an odd sell considering the governor was already talking about having a public televised execution

[JPhillips]

"I'll see you in Valhalla."

These people really are weird AF.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

lol Patel is bragging how great he was at catching the shooter...when the guy's father talked him into turning himself in and drove him to the police himself. Which is an odd sell considering the governor was already talking about having a public televised execution

Immediately brought to mind the Keller case in Washington state. One guy set over a hundred fires, one of which killed several people, and his dad ended up turning him in based on the released sketches and profile police publicized. As I recall, it was at great personal sacrifice because he ran an ad agency and despite being a good samaritan who turned his own son in, he was basically blamed for his son's actions and ostracized from the community.

[Ghost Econ]

Don't worry everyone, the chiefs are opening their stadium for grievers.

It's a cult.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

RFK has already been out there with video game talk, even before this killing.

Funny that in Canada, we also have video games, but somehow no mass shootings every day.

[HerRealName]

I get that the memes are niche and could be missed by police/agencies, but misinterpreting the TRN stamped on the ammo as pro-trans support is either disqualifying incompetent or outright propaganda.

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by Mota

Funny that in Canada, we also have video games, but somehow no mass shootings every day.

Because you've succumbed to the wokeness of empathy.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Could be the target audience, but it also could be the writer of the piece you read just didn't get it. A few anecdotes:

• My wife is Gen X, educated, runs in non-MAGA but theologically conservative Christian circles, pays moderate attention to politics. Votes in every general election, most primaries. When I told her of the shooting, she didn't even recognize the name and just went right back to what she was doing, but...
• ...about 5 minutes later, we got a text in the family group chat from the 16yo. On the way home from school, she'd gotten a call from a friend telling her of the shooting. She was less than 10 minutes from home, but it was such big news to her that rather than just coming on home, she pulled over into a random neighborhood and sat there for the next 39 minutes reading about it, texting us, texting friends, called us a couple of times, etc. (She called before it was announced that he was dead.)
• Mainly because of the ways I volunteer through my church, I have a disproportionate number of 15-30yos in my social media feeds. Given their age, their engagement heavily skews towards Instagram, which isn't typically a platform where people post about politics, and that holds through for this group; it's extremely rare for me to see them post anything remotely in the political realm. But in the last couple of days, they have been ALL OVER this incident, some on either side.
• A very conservative relative on my wife's side of the family posted "All of us adults usually have that one event in the news that we experienced as children that we remember and maybe took away a little bit of our child like innocence.I remember the shuttle disaster because I was home sick and saw it live. Today is that day for my sweet boy. The news of today’s killing of Charlie Kirk has left a mark on him. I feel bad that any of our children experience the stuff that is happening in the world today. Love you family and keep them close." I have every reason to believe that she is not exaggerating. Her son is.....13 years old.

I'm not saying that older adults don't pay attention to Kirk; I'd suspect that my wife is an outlier for not even recognizing his name. I AM saying that in my little corner of the world, it certainly appears that among people who aren't otherwise engaging with politics, he appears to have had a MUCH more significant reach with the younger crowd. I guess to put it succinctly, I'd argue that he was generally a political figure, but also was an "influencer," the latter of course being a much bigger deal in the under-30ish crowd.

The article just looked at the demographics for YouTube videos from an advertiser platform which at the time was his biggest outlet. That tells you what the breakdown of the audience is and it mostly skewed older.

Now his content might be more popular on Twitch, TikTok, or wherever younger people are these days. But this was mostly focused YouTube since it was his biggest.