NFL Championship Round

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Danny

Manning played s better game last week than Brady did today

More TDs, more turnovers. Not totally convinced that he did. About the same I reckon

[gstelmack]

Congrats to the Ravens, you outplayed the Pats today. I was worried early when the Pats kept moving the ball but not putting points up, and that bit them.

My only real gripe is that CBS decided to show that stupid Unicorn commercial instead of giving us a freeze-frame of the moment the ball popped loose from Ridley to see if the butt or left knee was down. I'll be looking for that shot from someone tomorrow doing CBS' job for them.

[cuervo72]

Can't let them go down the field too easy, defense.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

So, where does this performance put Brady in the rankings now. Does it drop him out of the top five?

Not as good as Eli Manning /Lathum

[Dutch]

Damn, didn't realize that the Pats haven't won since they were caught cheating...that has to knock Brady way down.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Dutch

A dose of reality might toughen him up a bit. Missed opportunity.

As opposed to someone who pops out of the woodwork once their team gets ahead...

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

More TDs, more turnovers. Not totally convinced that he did. About the same I reckon

3tds and one fumble in regulation with losing two drives. 1st int still wasn't his fault

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

If people are going to take Peyton down a notch because he lost they have to do the same for Brady. Since Bellichick was caught cheating they haven't won a SB. They've lost twice in the SB with the superior team. They've now lost twice at home to the Ravens with the superior team. They also lost at home in the playoffs to Mark Sanchez with the superior team.

I wonder how many other teams would be deemed the premiere team in the league for nearly a decade without a title.

[kcchief19]

What do people mean by knocking Brady and Manning down? Are you talking about their all-time ranking or ranking among current quarterbacks? Short of stabbing somebody outside the Super Bowl, there is nothing these guys can do to lower their all-time rankings -- their legends.

As for their contemporary rankings, Brady was one of the last four standing. Peyton took fluke team from a year ago into the AFC's No. 1 seed and saw his coach cost him a playoff game. How does that ding them?

Are either of these guys as good as they were five years ago? No, that would be impossible. But until they stop going 13-3 or 12-4, it's hard to bet against them. Are there better QBs in the league right now? If I had take a QB to led my team in 2013 for one season, I'd take these two guys first.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

If people are going to take Peyton down a notch because he lost they have to do the same for Brady. Since Bellichick was caught cheating they haven't won a SB. They've lost twice in the SB with the superior team. They've now lost twice at home to the Ravens with the superior team. They also lost at home in the playoffs to Mark Sanchez with the superior team.

ive said it in the past, you can always count on NE to lose in the playoffs. they and Mannings teams offense always has a bad game and they lose. its like a January tradition

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Danny

3tds and one fumble in regulation with losing two drives. 1st int still wasn't his fault

By that extension was the batted pass to the hands of a defender really Brady's fault? I mean we could play that game all day long. Stats are stats.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

As opposed to someone who pops out of the woodwork once their team gets ahead...

You need a hug.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Matthean

I wonder how many other teams would be deemed the premiere team in the league for nearly a decade without a title.

The Yankees.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

What do people mean by knocking Brady and Manning down? Are you talking about their all-time ranking or ranking among current quarterbacks? Short of stabbing somebody outside the Super Bowl, there is nothing these guys can do to lower their all-time rankings -- their legends.

As for their contemporary rankings, Brady was one of the last four standing. Peyton took fluke team from a year ago into the AFC's No. 1 seed and saw his coach cost him a playoff game. How does that ding them?

Are either of these guys as good as they were five years ago? No, that would be impossible. But until they stop going 13-3 or 12-4, it's hard to bet against them. Are there better QBs in the league right now? If I had take a QB to led my team in 2013 for one season, I'd take these two guys first.

You obviously didn't read some people's posts after Denver lost last week

[rowech]

Are we ever going to realize home field doesn't mean squat when it comes to the NFL playoffs?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

By that extension was the batted pass to the hands of a defender really Brady's fault? I mean we could play that game all day long. Stats are stats.

Ok manning 88 qb rating, Brady 64. Stats are stats

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

By that extension was the batted pass to the hands of a defender really Brady's fault? I mean we could play that game all day long. Stats are stats.

It's a shared responsibility, but the QB does share in the blame, sure.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Danny

Ok manning 88 qb rating, Brady 64. Stats are stats

If that's not passing rating but the modified QB rating that puts Mannigns fumble against him then I'd by it. If it's just passer rating without that fumble, i don;t buy it.

[Danny]

I just thnk it's ridiculous the difference in reactions. Manning had hi team in a great position to win until the Morris blew that play. Brady never had his team in s position to win. Manning played better last week than Brady did this week, pretty easy to see that in my view

[EagleFan]

Brady just can't win the big one anymore... ex-elite?

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

If that's not passing rating but the modified QB rating that puts Mannigns fumble against him then I'd by it. If it's just passer rating without that fumble, i don;t buy it.

Well, how about 5 times inside the 25 with 1 TD.

[JonInMiddleGA]

At least we know where Ray Lewis was during this incident.

Report: Fan stabbed following Falcons loss | www.ajc.com

[molson]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

ive said it in the past, you can always count on NE to lose in the playoffs. they and Mannings teams offense always has a bad game and they lose. its like a January tradition

Which teams are guaranteed to win in the playoffs?

I'll take the pats last 12 years over any other team's. It's been great fun to watch them. Though it's also fun to see the ravens get there.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Brady just can't win the big one anymore... ex-elite?

thats the trade off when you bang supermodel pussy. if he was banging some ugly fat chick hed still be hungry to win

[MizzouRah]

Thank you Ravens!!!

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Damn, didn't realize that the Pats haven't won since they were caught cheating...that has to knock Brady way down.

2 Super Bowl appearances, playoffs every year except when Brady was hurt (and that was a fluke tiebreaker setup, they went 11-5), a Welker drop and a helmet catch / near sack / uncalled holding away from winning those 2 Super Bowls, ...

any disappointment I feel is because they spoiled me rotten during the early 2000s. I'll take it.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Thank you Ravens!!!

+1

[Scoobz0202]

I know there was some talk as to if Tony G was going to retire or not. While there has been nothing official his post-game comments certainly make it seem like he isn't coming back.

Maybe that will change when he thinks on it.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Damn, didn't realize that the Pats haven't won since they were caught cheating...that has to knock Brady way down.

Are you really this stupid or is this the new act of yours?

[stevew]

Hopefully Welker is done with his double secret agent work and when he moves on the Pats might finally win something.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

If people are going to take Peyton down a notch because he lost they have to do the same for Brady. Since Bellichick was caught cheating they haven't won a SB. They've lost twice in the SB with the superior team. They've now lost twice at home to the Ravens with the superior team. They also lost at home in the playoffs to Mark Sanchez with the superior team.

That's a lot of losing for a team that you claim is superior.

[stevew]

I'm pretty sure that Screech is pulling for Cousin Jim over Cousin John

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Danny

Need to see replay to gauge if ball was coming out not sure on first glance

Originally Posted by gstelmack

My only real gripe is that CBS decided to show that stupid Unicorn commercial instead of giving us a freeze-frame of the moment the ball popped loose from Ridley to see if the butt or left knee was down. I'll be looking for that shot from someone tomorrow doing CBS' job for them.

+everything... Yeah, it's retrospective to say that decided the game, but it was pretty obviously the pivotal play of the game to that point... and CBS goes to a 3 minute commercial and cuts back just in time for the refs announcement instead of showing ANY replays. (For the record, I don't feel it was clear enough to overturn the call on the field, but I disagree with the refs "Confirming" the call on the field... although that's based on a couple later replays and nothing in slow-mo at the time.)

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

If people are going to take Peyton down a notch because he lost they have to do the same for Brady. Since Bellichick was caught cheating they haven't won a SB. They've lost twice in the SB with the superior team. They've now lost twice at home to the Ravens with the superior team. They also lost at home in the playoffs to Mark Sanchez with the superior team.

For 4 years the Patriots were regarded as less talented and lucky, yet still won 3 SB's, and now they're a clearly superior team that loses every time. Maybe once you get down to the top 5-6 teams in the playoffs luck plays a bigger factor than anyone and their narratives want to admit.

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

ive said it in the past, you can always count on NE to lose in the playoffs.

Although, in their defense, the fact you can count on them being there is worth something...

[DougW]

The Lions own the Super Bowl. I am so sick of no one being able to take it from us.

Oh well, maybe next year you NFL clowns will put up a team that can beat us.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Are you really this stupid or is this the new act of yours?

Buccaneer, you gotta keep it in perspective. Anybody that gets so mad at a football game that they call the other players cheaters and murderers deserves to get ribbed a bit. I enjoyed giving DT and his Pats the business because that.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Well, how about 5 times inside the 25 with 1 TD.

One word...

Gronk.

With all this talk about legacies, the biggest thing to factor into the equation might be the fact that Brady's most valuable weapon (and a first team All-Pro) went down injured right before their next subsequent loss in three of the past four seasons. I'm not sure how the Giants would have done without Nicks last year, or the Packers without Jennings in 2010, or the Colts without Wayne in 2006 if they had each lost those respective players the game before. And while you can say that there are other good players, the coverages shift around more which means those next top guys (Cruz, Nelson, Harrison, etc.) have more attention and in turn, less room to work with.

And while I'm aware of the Patriots scoring numbers this year with Gronk in the lineup as opposed to without, the fact is that he's arguably the biggest matchup nightmare in the league and (when healthy) the best overall player at his position.

Someone mentioned it earlier, but when you get to this stage (final 4, even final 8), luck plays a huge factor and the Patriots have been extremely unlucky over the past 5 seasons. I honestly can't remember team's losing offensive playmakers at this level and being successful.

[Kodos]

So is Tom Brady a choker?

(Sorry that I'm late to the discussion -- just finished watching the game this morning.)

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

One word...

Gronk.

With all this talk about legacies, the biggest thing to factor into the equation might be the fact that Brady's most valuable weapon (and a first team All-Pro) went down injured right before their next subsequent loss in three of the past four seasons. I'm not sure how the Giants would have done without Nicks last year, or the Packers without Jennings in 2010, or the Colts without Wayne in 2006 if they had each lost those respective players the game before. And while you can say that there are other good players, the coverages shift around more which means those next top guys (Cruz, Nelson, Harrison, etc.) have more attention and in turn, less room to work with.

And while I'm aware of the Patriots scoring numbers this year with Gronk in the lineup as opposed to without, the fact is that he's arguably the biggest matchup nightmare in the league and (when healthy) the best overall player at his position.

Someone mentioned it earlier, but when you get to this stage (final 4, even final 8), luck plays a huge factor and the Patriots have been extremely unlucky over the past 5 seasons. I honestly can't remember team's losing offensive playmakers at this level and being successful.

Still kind of telling though. It would have been interesting to see what happens with Gronk being healthy and Talib finishing the game.

[Kodos]

Because no other teams have dealt with injuries to key players?

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Because no other teams have dealt with injuries to key players?

Every team deals with injuries. Ladarius Webb is the Ravens best corner and they've been without him most of the year. But there is a big difference between losing your best offensive playmaker (and the best player in the league at his position) the game before and "dealing with injuries."

[Buccaneer]

Just like last year where I think the difference was Hernandez's lack of mobility may have been the difference in the Super Bowl, this year it was Gronk's absence for a team that is built around a 2TE offense. May have been the difference in winning but certainly the difference in being shutout in the 2nd half.

[JediKooter]

Colts owner sent $8,500 to a fan who guessed the correct Ravens-Pats score | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports

[albionmoonlight]

Gronkowski was a huge talent coming out of college. But he didn't play the year before he was drafted because he was injured. His injury risk is why the Pats got him in the second round instead of him going as a top-ten pick. And we saw some of that play out last season with him being injured for the Super Bowl.

So, I don't have a ton of sympathy for the argument that the Pats were sunk because their injury-prone player was injured. They may have wanted to run a 2TE offense, but that was a very risky gameplan around which to base the team's success. Part of successful planning has to account for the strengths and weaknesses of your team--including injury prone players.

Because I like watching great players, I hope that he dedicates himself to keeping his body in shape and re-defines the position over the next 10 years. But I suspect that within 5 years he'll be out of football and starting a successful career as a reality-TV and/or action movie star.

[Logan]

I also don't have much sympathy for the argument that with Talib out, they simply couldn't cover anyone. Or I should say...I understand the argument, but that's your front office's problem. It's not like Talib was a long-term fixture there that they could ever envision leaving the field. He's a guy they were able to acquire after week 8, when he was still serving a PED suspension and when Schiano and co grew tired of him. If you're relying on a trade deadline acquisition to have just an adequate secondary, you're in a bad spot.

[DanGarion]

Injuries happen. How a team overcomes them is part of the game. Look at the Niners, Smith went down and Kaepernick came in and succeeded. Justin Smith went down and it knocked the Niners out of home field advantage throughout the playoffs.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Logan

I also don't have much sympathy for the argument that with Talib out, they simply couldn't cover anyone. Or I should say...I understand the argument, but that's your front office's problem. It's not like Talib was a long-term fixture there that they could ever envision leaving the field. He's a guy they were able to acquire after week 8, when he was still serving a PED suspension and when Schiano and co grew tired of him. If you're relying on a trade deadline acquisition to have just an adequate secondary, you're in a bad spot.

I'm kind of surprised a defensive coach with a yearly large haul of draft picks continues to have such a piss poor secondary. That has cost them SB wins more than anything.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Gronkowski was a huge talent coming out of college. But he didn't play the year before he was drafted because he was injured. His injury risk is why the Pats got him in the second round instead of him going as a top-ten pick. And we saw some of that play out last season with him being injured for the Super Bowl.

So, I don't have a ton of sympathy for the argument that the Pats were sunk because their injury-prone player was injured. They may have wanted to run a 2TE offense, but that was a very risky gameplan around which to base the team's success. Part of successful planning has to account for the strengths and weaknesses of your team--including injury prone players.

Because I like watching great players, I hope that he dedicates himself to keeping his body in shape and re-defines the position over the next 10 years. But I suspect that within 5 years he'll be out of football and starting a successful career as a reality-TV and/or action movie star.

I'm not sold on the injury-prone designation. I haven't delved too much into his college history, but I thought he had a back injury - which could be a serious, recurring problem, but has yet to be one in the NFL. Instead he had a gruesome ankle injury where any normal human would have torn multiple ligaments, and then a pretty freak forearm break. Maybe he really is injury-prone, or maybe he just got unlucky there.

I also think there is a difference between using injuries as an excuse, or as an explanation. Injuries are part of the luck factor in any year, (just like fumble recoveries, or opposing DB's deciding to allow last-minute hail mary's) and I know I'm certainly not claiming the Patriots deserved to win, or definitely would have with those two (three if you count Ridley due to us losing the ball due to his injury) players healthy. But yes, they would have changed the game (just like the Ravens having Lardarius Webb would have, or the 49ers having a healthy Justin Smith, etc), and given that the modern NFL doesn't allow you to stockpile depth injuries to important players can play an outsize role.

By the way, one thing I don't recall seeing mentioned almost anywhere when people are hating on Welker or calling him a choker for that drop - anyone want to place odds on him having a concussion then? He got rocked and took a few seconds to get up either the previous play or two before, and then he drops a really simple pass right in front of him... I doubt that's entirely coincidental.

[stevew]

Hernandez is more injury prone than Gronk IMO.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by stevew

Hernandez is more injury prone than Gronk IMO.

Hernandez also has alligator arms, and loses 1-2 yards almost every time he catches a pass because he runs backwards to avoid getting hit head on. (I might not be his biggest fan.)

[Carman Bulldog]

When Gronk was coming out of college, it wasn't so much the "injury prone" designation that caused him to slide, it was, as BishopMVP pointed out, the back injury, which if I recall, was originally injured while lifting weights. That was followed by surgery causing him to miss a full season. There were also rumors floating around about possible spinal stenosis but I think those were shot down.

Regardless, the Patriots definitely got him where they did because of his injury history. However, I don't think it's fair to say they are reaping what they sow in this instance. I could see that argument if Gronkowski was having continual back issues, but these appear to be two separate freak incidents. It seems a lot like how Matthew Stafford got tagged with the injury prone label (and still carries it to a degree) from some freak isolated injuries in his first few seasons.