It Has Begun - NFL Week 1

[albionmoonlight]

Lions had an INT. Vikings O-lineman was chasing the play, about 10 yards behind. Suh came in and dove at his knee, knocking him out the game.

It was illegal b/c you can't block low on INT returns. It was totally unnecessary b/c the guy he "blocked" had no chance of catching the play. And it was totally intentional b/c he dove for the knees--no tripping or anything.

Dude is the one blemish on an otherwise entertaining and kind-of-hard-to-root-against-them Lions team.

IMHO, he should get at least a one-game suspension.

[BillJasper]

I wonder whose next in line to give Matt Flynn a ton of money for very little return?

[Logan]

His suspensions should just build on themselves at this point. Begin with the baseline of what he got the last time, and add another game (or more if justified).

[Vince, Pt. II]

Suh's kind of a sad story. By all accounts I've read, he's a really, really pleasant guy off the field. He just has no control on it.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

What'd the douchebag Suh do?

Block in the back on an INT return, cost the Lions a TD as the guy was no where near the party.

Also got Jared Allen to complain about someone else taking a cheap shot which is hilarious.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Logan

His suspensions should just build on themselves at this point. Begin with the baseline of what he got the last time, and add another game (or more if justified).

I agree. Hopefully Roger will take a hard-line with him finally and bring the ban-hammer down for multiple games.

[Sun Tzu]

I think everyone here knows that I would never in a thousand years speak for another board member.

Braaaaaaaaggadocioussss!

[Logan]

LOL.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I wonder whose next in line to give Matt Flynn a ton of money for very little return?

If Pryor turns out to be awesome, i think it´s hard to put any blame on Flynn or even the Seahawks/Raiders.
Imo we still don´t know if Flynn wouldn´t be pretty good himself...

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Suh's kind of a sad story. By all accounts I've read, he's a really, really pleasant guy off the field. He just has no control on it.

Amygdala hijack.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

FWIW...this is what most 49ers fans have been saying since the league initially responded with "oh, sorry, you got an extra down!" It's nice to get some actual validation from the league. Completely bogus penalty on Staley, and Mathews should be suspended for 1 game for throwing punches.

NFL now says Packers, not 49ers, benefitted from officials’ mistake | ProFootballTalk

I'm kind of surprised Matthews didn't get tossed. I thought punches were automatic ejection. Although that might just be for non-stars.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm kind of surprised Matthews didn't get tossed. I thought punches were automatic ejection. Although that might just be for non-stars.

He should have been tossed. It's funny how this entire thing would have been turned around if he had broken Kaep's collerbone on the cheap shot. People would be talking about a long suspension if that were the case.

Kaep not getting hurt shouldn't change the punishment factor. There should be a major league punishment. There won't be, I realize this, but there should.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The NFL also gave an interpretation of the Bucs late hit play that showed the refs got it right.

It will be an interesting week on the NFL discipline front.

Mathews should get a MASSIVE fine and be put on probation.
Suh should get a full blown suspension.

I'd be very happy if Suh was suspended and had to miss the game against my beloved Cardinals

[Arles]

Originally Posted by TroyF

He should have been tossed. It's funny how this entire thing would have been turned around if he had broken Kaep's collerbone on the cheap shot. People would be talking about a long suspension if that were the case.

Kaep not getting hurt shouldn't change the punishment factor. There should be a major league punishment. There won't be, I realize this, but there should.

I've never seen anyone tossed for high hit near the sideline. It should have gotten flagged for a late hit, no doubt. But, people don't get tossed for that.

All that said, I am perfectly fine with the idea that harsher results should equal harsher penalties. If Clay had seriously injured Kaep, then he should have been heavily fined and (IMO) suspended for a game.

It's the risk you take when you make a dangerous play. If the other player gets hurt, you should get steeper penalties. If no one is hurt and play goes on, then maybe just the personal foul is good enough.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Arles

I've never seen anyone tossed for high hit near the sideline. It should have gotten flagged for a late hit, no doubt. But, people don't get tossed for that.

All that said, I am perfectly fine with the idea that harsher results should equal harsher penalties. If Clay had seriously injured Kaep, then he should have been heavily fined and (IMO) suspended for a game.

It's the risk you take when you make a dangerous play. If the other player gets hurt, you should get steeper penalties. If no one is hurt and play goes on, then maybe just the personal foul is good enough.

I think Troy was saying he should have been tossed for the punches on Staley.

[Logan]

To me, Matthews going full on Superman there showed his clear intent to do something dirty, whereas a push, strong shove, or even a full-on shoulder could all possibly be interpreted/explained away as his momentum carrying him forward, being unable to come to a complete stop, etc.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm kind of surprised Matthews didn't get tossed. I thought punches were automatic ejection. Although that might just be for non-stars.

There were no clear punches thrown. Matthews grabbed Staley's facemask with his right hand and then did a 2-handed shove to his chest that was returned by a shove from Staley. If Clay had cleanly swung at any of the 49er players, he would have been tossed on the spot.

Here's the video:



Listen, it was a little dirty and I would be OK if Clay had to write a check out to the league for it. But I can't see a suspension from this given no damage happened to Colin and Clay went at his shoulders on the hit. Maybe the league will see different though.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Arles

There were no punches thrown. Matthews just did a 2-handed shove against Staley and both grabbed each others' facemask. If Clay had cleanly swung at any of the 49er players, he would have been tossed on the spot.

Very close.

[Arles]

That's a judgment call by the refs but I can't remember the last time a player got ejected for grabbing someone else's facemask while the other player was holding their jersey with both hands. Plus, the ref was right there and saw the whole thing.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Suh's kind of a sad story. By all accounts I've read, he's a really, really pleasant guy off the field. He just has no control on it.

no control behind the wheel of a car either

He was ticketed for speeding, improperly signaling and not carrying proof of insurance during a March stop in his hometown of Portland, Ore. Police said he was driving a BMW 91 mph in a 55 mph zone.

In December 2011, Suh lost control of a car and crashed into a drinking fountain and tree in Portland. A woman has filed a civil lawsuit seeking $1 million from Suh in the crash.

He also was involved in a traffic accident last month in Dearborn. Police in the Detroit suburb said the accident was minor and fault could not be determined. When Suh played at Nebraska he pleaded guilty to negligent driving and paid a $60 fine after crashing into three parked cars.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Arles

I've never seen anyone tossed for high hit near the sideline. It should have gotten flagged for a late hit, no doubt. But, people don't get tossed for that.

All that said, I am perfectly fine with the idea that harsher results should equal harsher penalties. If Clay had seriously injured Kaep, then he should have been heavily fined and (IMO) suspended for a game.

It's the risk you take when you make a dangerous play. If the other player gets hurt, you should get steeper penalties. If no one is hurt and play goes on, then maybe just the personal foul is good enough.

I'm not fine with harsher results equal harsher penalties. The plays like the one in yesterdays game need to be removed from this sport. I don't want to see, Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Wilson or RG3 injured for a year because some jack ass decides he wants to make a point. Beyond that, I don't want ANY player to get concussions on other players.

I think the Viking linemen today said it best: "There needs to be consequences for players who do not respect the careers of others" It's simple, it's blunt and it's accurate. The consequences should be STEEP. Multiple games missed, fines (in percentage of the players salary context) and organizational penalties to teams who refuse to get their players under control.

Mathews decided yesterday he didn't care if his actions ruined the career of another player, I don't care if Kaep walks away or suffered a major injury, Mathews should be treated extremely harshly for that decision.

Just to get this out of the way, if a Broncos player takes a cheap shot at someone or lowers the crown of their helmet, they should go bye bye. I don't care if it's Von Miller in a playoff game or the third string LB in preseason. Treat the guys and teams who do this harshly and it will stop.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Arles

That's a judgment call by the refs but I can't remember the last time a player got ejected for grabbing someone else's facemask while the other player was holding their jersey with both hands. Plus, the ref was right there and saw the whole thing.

Well, I wouldn't say that second shot was an attempt to grab Staley's facemask, but to give a shot to the facemask (Harbaugh called it an "open slap") that was hindered by Staley having such a firm hold of him. But to each their own.

[Kodos]

Matthews should have a nice suspension given to him. Suh even moreso. And I say that as someone who generally likes Matthews.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Lions had an INT. Vikings O-lineman was chasing the play, about 10 yards behind. Suh came in and dove at his knee, knocking him out the game.

It was illegal b/c you can't block low on INT returns. It was totally unnecessary b/c the guy he "blocked" had no chance of catching the play. And it was totally intentional b/c he dove for the knees--no tripping or anything.

Dude is the one blemish on an otherwise entertaining and kind-of-hard-to-root-against-them Lions team.

IMHO, he should get at least a one-game suspension.

A few clarifications.

1. The guy was knocked out of the game. He got his knee checked out and went back in the game.

2. This is just a new penalty this year, if I recall correctly. So, if Suh did this last year I don't think it would even be a penalty.

3. The guy was chasing after Levy who was returning the interception. What if Levy tripped and fell? What if Levy dropped the ball before the end zone like that knuckle-head on the Broncos? He wasn't completely out of the play.

- I don't like the hit, but I don't think he should be suspended for it. A fine? Sure. But a suspension is way too harsh.

That said, I am sure the NFL will suspend Suh. The Lions have long been one of the primary whipping boys of the NFL.

I still haven't seen any discussion (not here, but elsewhere) of how Cruz's second touchdown counted and Calvin Johnson's didn't. They were the same play.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

That said, I am sure the NFL will suspend Suh. The Lions have long been one of the primary whipping boys of the NFL.

You sure that isn't just because Suh is an asshole?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Kodos

You sure that isn't just because Suh is an asshole?

If just being an asshole was worthy of a suspension, a lot more players in the NFL would be suspended. The Lions being a whipping boy goes way beyond Suh.

[cuervo72]

I thought Fairley also had his share of asshole plays at Auburn? Would make at least two reasons to root against them.

/doesn't care for Matthews any either

[RainMaker]

I don't know if it's a slap or punch or shove or whatever you call it. Just know if that was say Takeo Spikes, he would have been tossed.

And I don't care if they are ejected or suspended, just that the league keeps it consistent among players. If Suh had made that tackle on Kaepernick and had the ensuing altercation with Staley, everyone would be calling for him to be suspended. But if you have long blonde hair and a pale complexion, it's just a tough play and a mistake. Also if that play and altercation happened on Peyton Manning instead of a running QB, would the reaction be different?

[bhlloy]

Hasn't blocking below the waist on a change of possession been illegal for a long time? It was a really dirty play IMO that could easily put someone out for a year or longer. How anyone can think Suh is a victim at this point is beyond me as well.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't know if it's a slap or punch or shove or whatever you call it. Just know if that was say Takeo Spikes, he would have been tossed.

And I don't care if they are ejected or suspended, just that the league keeps it consistent among players. If Suh had made that tackle on Kaepernick and had the ensuing altercation with Staley, everyone would be calling for him to be suspended. But if you have long blonde hair and a pale complexion, it's just a tough play and a mistake. Also if that play and altercation happened on Peyton Manning instead of a running QB, would the reaction be different?

Pretty much yes to all of your questions. If that were Peyton Manning and it was some third string linebacker for the Raiders? How about if it were Peyton Manning and it was some third string linebacker for the Raiders that had talked crap about Manning all week?

It wouldn't even be a debate. The suspension announcement would have already come by now.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I still haven't seen any discussion (not here, but elsewhere) of how Cruz's second touchdown counted and Calvin Johnson's didn't. They were the same play.

The Cruz TD shouldn't have counted either.

[HomerSimpson98]

The race card? Really?

[Danny]

I think the fact Matthews is a face of the league is the reason, not that he is white. If it was some 3rd string white guy they likely would have been suspended.

[Arles]

I think your prior behavior is certainly a big factor with determining intent. Someone like Patrick Willis or Clay Matthews who haven't been suspended should get more leeway than Suh or James Harrison. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

At the end of the day, you are suspending on a combination of intention to injure with the "dangerousness/illegality" of the play. For Matthews, it's hard to argue he was trying to injure as he left his feet right as Kaep was stepping out and grabbed his shoulders. Had he went at his knees 2-3 yards out of bounds, that's a different story. Clay's play was certainly illegal, but it's hard to say he was trying to injure. The "slap" or facemask grab should probably garner a fine, but I doubt even James Harrison would get suspended for that. Certainly not Patrick Willis, Lance Briggs, Clay Matthews or any other LB who hasn't shown a history of suspensions or fines (to Rainmaker's point that this is somehow about race).

For Suh, it's much tougher. The play was well past where the hit was made and it's hard to argue that a fat ass lineman is going to makeup 10-15 yards on much faster guy returning the ball. It looks like a cheapshot with the intent to injure - then you factor in his prior behavior and you have a potential suspension. Still, given the standards the league has set over the past 3-4 seasons on actual game suspensions - I'm not sure that Suh deserves one unless it is largely on his prior conduct.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Logan

The Cruz TD shouldn't have counted either.

I finally found an explanation.

Apparently, at some point during his catch, Victor Cruz transformed from a "receiver" to a "runner." When you're a "runner" all you need to do is break the plane of the end zone to score. Once that happens, the play is over. No need to maintain control of the ball when it hits the ground.

Calvin Johnson failed to transform from a "receiver" to a "runner" and, therefore, as he was still a "receiver" he had to maintain control of the ball when it the ground even after he broke the plan of the end zone.

I would have to watch both plays again to try to see the distinction.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Danny

I think the fact Matthews is a face of the league is the reason, not that he is white. If it was some 3rd string white guy they likely would have been suspended.

When was the last time a player (white, black, pink or green) got suspended for a game after a slap to someone else's facemask or late hit? There have been 4 acts on the field that were penalized for game-suspensions in the past 3 seasons (Outside of the Saints bountygate situation):

2011 - Suh - 2 games for stomping on an opposing player's crotch while he laid on the field

2011 - Harrison - 1 game for Violent helmet-to-helmet hit on Colt McCoy that nearly knocked him unconscious. McCoy was injured.

2012 - Joe Mays - 1 game for hit on Matt Schaub (lost part of his ear)

2013 - Antonio Smith - 1 preseason game for swinging a player's own helmet at him

Do we really think that Clay Matthews grabbing Joe Staley's facemask is on this level? A fine can be expected, but not a suspension - it would be unprecedented.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I still haven't seen any discussion (not here, but elsewhere) of how Cruz's second touchdown counted and Calvin Johnson's didn't. They were the same play.

Bill Barnwell had a quick mention at Grantland in his roundup.

Which went mysteriously uncalled on one of Victor Cruz's touchdowns. My impression is that Cruz's touchdown wasn't called off because he established possession outside of the end zone and then broke the plane with the football before losing possession on his way down, while Johnson was establishing possession inside the end zone and never actually did so, but … just let Calvin Johnson score.

FTR, I'm completely down with Matthews being suspended, and a small part of that is his pregame comments. I completely disagree with the hits on Trindon Holliday or Geno Smith even being called a penalty. I don't care if the player is "giving himself up" - until your feet actually touch out of bounds, you're fair game imo and the onus is on you to protect yourself. If you just ran 20 yards and had the football in your hands for 5+ seconds, keeping your shoulder down for that last step isn't going to kill you or prevent you from stopping. (And I don't see any point in arguing about it - neither side is going to change its mind.)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Arles

When was the last time a player (white, black, pink or green) got suspended for a game after a slap to someone else's facemask or late hit? There have been 4 acts on the field that were penalized for game-suspensions in the past 3 seasons (Outside of the Saints bountygate situation):

2011 - Suh - 2 games for stomping on an opposing player's crotch while he laid on the field

2011 - Harrison - 1 game for Violent helmet-to-helmet hit on Colt McCoy that nearly knocked him unconscious. McCoy was injured.

2012 - Joe Mays - 1 game for hit on Matt Schaub (lost part of his ear)

2013 - Antonio Smith - 1 preseason game for swinging a player's own helmet at him

Do we really think that Clay Matthews grabbing Joe Staley's facemask is on this level? A fine can be expected, but not a suspension - it would be unprecedented.

Thanks for that list. Based on that criteria, no way should Suh get suspended for his low block. A fine? Most definitely.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I finally found an explanation.

Apparently, at some point during his catch, Victor Cruz transformed from a "receiver" to a "runner." When you're a "runner" all you need to do is break the plane of the end zone to score. Once that happens, the play is over. No need to maintain control of the ball when it hits the ground.

Calvin Johnson failed to transform from a "receiver" to a "runner" and, therefore, as he was still a "receiver" he had to maintain control of the ball when it the ground even after he broke the plan of the end zone.

I would have to watch both plays again to try to see the distinction.

It might be the stated reason, but I don't think it was right on the Cruz play. My guess is they thought Cruz's second foot (the left foot) came down before he started getting tackled by the Dallas defender (which should have made it a "going to the ground" scenario, but since he didn't, he never "established possession").

[TroyF]

1) It is time to change the precedent. I'm sorry, but I don't care what a suspension was 2 years ago, last year or 25 years ago. There needs to be a massive change in how this stuff is handled. Dive parallel to the ground at a guy 3 yards out of bounds? Ummm, yeah, you get a game or two off. You also get ejected from the game.

At some point, you stop talking about player safety and you lay down the hammer to any player who isn't concerned about the safety of the other players. I think the time is now. I love what the college game is doing and think the NFL should follow suit.

2) While you may think you are a live target until your toe hits the out of bounds line, that is not the way it is explained in the rule book.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Thanks for that list. Based on that criteria, no way should Suh get suspended for his low block. A fine? Most definitely.

Consider this a quote of the original quote too. While I agree that it probably doesn't warrant a suspension, isn't taking a swing typically an eject able offense?

I still haven't seen the play (heard it on 49ers radio), but when it happened, it sounded like the announcers thought Matthews had possibly earned two personal fouls and an ejection.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by TroyF

1) It is time to change the precedent. I'm sorry, but I don't care what a suspension was 2 years ago, last year or 25 years ago. There needs to be a massive change in how this stuff is handled. Dive parallel to the ground at a guy 3 yards out of bounds? Ummm, yeah, you get a game or two off. You also get ejected from the game.

So, any late hit out of bounds should be atleast a game suspension in your books? Guess we will have to agree to disagree there.

At some point, you stop talking about player safety and you lay down the hammer to any player who isn't concerned about the safety of the other players. I think the time is now. I love what the college game is doing and think the NFL should follow suit.

What about Matthews' play was blatantly dangerous to Kaep? He didn't hit him in the head. He didn't go for his knees. He didn't hit him after he had stopped running and he grabbed him on the shoulders. I'm still missing where the danger was for Kaepernick (outside of any normal football tackle).

2) While you may think you are a live target until your toe hits the out of bounds line, that is not the way it is explained in the rule book.

Again, it was a penalty - and it got flagged. I don't see why it needs a 1-2 game suspension as well.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Consider this a quote of the original quote too. While I agree that it probably doesn't warrant a suspension, isn't taking a swing typically an eject able offense?

I still haven't seen the play (heard it on 49ers radio), but when it happened, it sounded like the announcers thought Matthews had possibly earned two personal fouls and an ejection.

Two refs were right next to Matthews when it happened live. If they would have decided in the heat of the moment to kick him out, I would have understood their perspective. I think it would have been a mistake after the fact once they reviewed the tape - but I atleast would have somewhat understood (in SF, hard hit on the QB, gets in an altercation after). But, they decided it was fine during the play and I doubt they will see anything on the tape to make it more than a token fine. We shall see though...

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I finally found an explanation.

Apparently, at some point during his catch, Victor Cruz transformed from a "receiver" to a "runner." When you're a "runner" all you need to do is break the plane of the end zone to score. Once that happens, the play is over. No need to maintain control of the ball when it hits the ground.

Calvin Johnson failed to transform from a "receiver" to a "runner" and, therefore, as he was still a "receiver" he had to maintain control of the ball when it the ground even after he broke the plan of the end zone.

I would have to watch both plays again to try to see the distinction.

Calvin did just as much after his catch as Cruz, IMO.

[Julio Riddols]

My take on the Matthews hit was that it almost seemed like he tried to pull off a little bit of a flying clothesline when he made the hit. There was clear intent to do harm there. He launched himself, which is illegal in or out of bounds, then he swung the arm in front of Kaepernick pretty hard to initiate contact right around the neck area.

To me, if there is clear intent to injure an opponent as there appears to be here, then a one game suspension sounds fair.

[EagleFan]

Are there any replays of the Johnson play?

[cuervo72]

6:55 my ass.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Are there any replays of the Johnson play?

I looked for a while but couldn't find any, but my memory of the play says he caught the ball and "made a football move" by turning up field and diving for the end zone. Had full possession of the ball the whole way, and the ball only came out as he landed. IMO turning and diving upfield after a catch constitutes a football move.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

6:55 my ass.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Logan]

That's gotta be the first time a starting NFL QB compared himself to "Hitch" in a pre-game interview.