NFL Week 8 - Game of the year editon

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

oh crap. ESPN is reporting that Childress might get a new contract in the bye week.

Just wait for when Favre does retire. He's screwed unless the Vikens pull another QB out of their rear.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

Looks like Cable beats on more people than just assistant coaches.

What a douchebag

Not sure what to make of this. Cable claims he only hit his wife once, over 20 years ago, when she committed adultery. Not trying to excuse the guy, just to say I can sorta understand it even if I don't approve. This second incident with the girlfriend, he grabbed her by the arm and claimed the police investigated. That should be easy enough to check out.

All that said, it's pretty clear he has an anger issue and does lash out violently, even if it may not be as often as it is being portrayed (and who knows, maybe it is that often).

Also, if it's true ESPN only contacted him on Friday and wouldn't divulge any details of the story they were doing, Cable's attorney is right, that is pretty shitty journalism.

[Arles]

So, basically an incident he fessed up to before (back in 1989) and an incident where he was cleared by the police (involving a girl who is on record as stating "I am going to ruin your [expletive deleted] life and I am going to ruin your [expletive deleted] career if it is the last thing I ever do") are their two pieces of groundbreaking evidence. That's a major story why?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Arles

So, basically an incident he fessed up to before (back in 1989) and an incident where he was cleared by the police (involving a girl who is on record as stating "I am going to ruin your [expletive deleted] life and I am going to ruin your [expletive deleted] career if it is the last thing I ever do") are their two pieces of groundbreaking evidence. That's a major story why?

lol...the 1989 thing was already public knowledge? Haha...way to go, ESPN. Really groundbreaking there.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Radii

Warner has 3 INT's, Delhomme none. Carolina played a great first half, got to the QB, ran the ball well, and broke a couple big plays. Very very nice to see.

This was the result I expected against the Giants, not against a team with a sucky QB, two of its recieving corps out and the best run defense in the NFL. Warner has one or two of these games every season where he just implodes. I hope its the last one for this season, cause no way they should have lost this game at home, at least that badly. Very disappointed in my Cards this week.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Noop

Ted Ginn still sucks.

That is all.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I just think 'plane of the end zone' is a stupid rule in the first place - and you can disagree with me all you want on that - and it's fucking retarded that you can combine it with a guy who can't go anywhere, and nearly anywhere else on the field that play gets whistled dead, but because he might be able to stretch his arm out a few feet, it's allowed to continue so that maybe he can wave the football over the end zone for a second and a half.

What would the alternative be? Actually touching the ball down in the end zone a la rugby? Getting one foot in? Getting a toe in? An elbow? A face? Seems like the ball is the most objective thing here.

Move the ball back ten yards and say it's 4th and inches instead of 4th and goal - can he wave the ball over the plane of the first down line and get the call if he gets stuffed, or is that just a subjective spot-of-the-ball thing for the official? Honest question. Are the rules consistent that way?

The rule is the same--the ball is spotted at the point of forward progress.

[Ben E Lou]

I need to read these threads more often for the UIC.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

LOL, Let me guess you took Fred Taylor in the 1st round of your fantasy draft? How is that working out for you?

My lack of sarcasm tags claims another victim, I see.

[miami_fan]

I am as likely to give Tom Cable the benefit of the doubt as I am Brandon Marshall. If I remember correctly he was also cleared of the charges against him. YMMV

[Abe Sargent]

No comments on tonight's game yet?

[Tigercat]

Someone threw a bottle on the field during a Saints TD, and the home team gets a 15 yard penalty. Not saying it wasn't a Saints fan, probably was, but that just encourages a fan from the other team to throw objects on the field so the home team is penalized. Stupid penalty, almost as stupid as the idiot who threw the bottle.

[Tigercat]

Dola, ok the ruling ended up being excessive celebration and not the bottle as they were saying on ESPN. Good thing, the NFL doesn't need anymore circus to it.

[mckerney]

Go Falcons. Both the Saints and Vikings have pretty easy schedules after this week, would be great if they Vikes could get the slight edge in the race for home field advantage that would come with the Saints losing today.

[Tigercat]

I have seen multiple offensive PIs this year called on a WR who initiated and finished contact before the ball was out of the QBs hands. What is up with that?

Drew Brees been a little sloppy with the ball the last couple of weeks.

[Abe Sargent]

Insert dagger and twist

[Tigercat]

Jason Elam looks well past his shelf date.

[Abe Sargent]

Fun game so far

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Jason Elam looks well past his shelf date.

Kicking at sea level rather than a mile up is a bitch.

[Abe Sargent]

whoa Atlanta

[Tigercat]

White did everything but take Greer's money on that play. That was an obvious prolonged pushoff, not sure the justification for not calling it. At least White just won me my fantasy game.

[jbergey22]

Saints showing some weakness these past couple of weeks. Defense looks like it did last year.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Saints showing some weakness these past couple of weeks. Defense looks like it did last year.

I don't remember the defense last year leading the NFL in takeaways. The Saints D has allowed 17 points tonight and scored 7. (With another INT in the redzone after the offense gave Atlanta the ball there.)

Your weekly attempts to talk badly about one of the best teams in the NFL are comical.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I don't remember the defense last year leading the NFL in takeaways. The Saints D has allowed 17 points tonight and scored 7. (With another INT in the redzone after the offense gave Atlanta the ball there.)

Your weekly attempts to talk badly about one of the best teams in the NFL are comical.

Give me the 6 points on missed FGs back. and that is still 23 against a very average offense after giving up 36 to an even more average offense last week.

Takeaways doesnt make for a great defense FYI. Good teams dont tend to turn the ball over. Depending on that to get to the Super Bowl wont get you very far.

And I never said the Saints werent one of the best teams in the NFL. They are one of the 5 best. Hard to say at this point. Every great team seems to have glaring weaknesses right now.

[FBPro]

Zebras have given this one to the "beloved" 'aints.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Give me the 6 points on missed FGs back.

Umm, no. Are you serious?

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Takeaways doesnt make for a great defense FYI. Good teams dont tend to turn the ball over. Depending on that to get to the Super Bowl wont get you very far.

Takeaways can certainly make a defense great. Would you suggest Ed Reed isn't a great player because his takeaways don't matter? The Saints have forced turnovers this year on everyone they have played, even good teams.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by FBPro

Zebras have given this one to the "beloved" 'aints.

Eh? Like the textbook White pushoff on the long TD? Like the ball White clearly dropped in the endzone that the ref right there managed to miss somehow? (At least replay got it right.) Saints plenty earned this game by getting the INT when they needed it and driving down the Falcon's throats when it counted.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Umm, no. Are you serious?



Takeaways can certainly make a defense great. Would you suggest Ed Reed isn't a great player because his takeaways don't matter? The Saints have forced turnovers this year on everyone they have played, even good teams.

LOL, So the Saints created them missed FGs? Sure Tigercat.

Has nothing to do with Ed Reed being a great player. Ed Reed does more than just create TOs. Teams like the Colts, Patriots, and Steelers dont turn the ball over much. Turnovers are usually created by playing bad teams. Name a good team that turns the ball over a lot?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Eh? Like the textbook White pushoff on the long TD? Like the ball White clearly dropped in the endzone that the ref right there managed to miss somehow? (At least replay got it right.) Saints plenty earned this game by getting the INT when they needed it and driving down the Falcon's throats when it counted.

The defender interfered first then White pushed off. Probably should have been offsetting. Im guessing he let White get away with it because the defender created the contact in the first place.

[stevew]

The Saints are a lot like the Bengals from a few years ago. Totally unrealistic amount of turnovers generated. Let alone the pick sixes. This team goes down hard if they play anyone good. Or have to leave the sanctuary of their indoor home.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

LOL, So the Saints created them missed FGs? Sure Tigercat.

When did I say that? I just refuse, like any sane person would, to debate on points that didn't happen like they did happen. That is not the basis of a sound argument.

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Has nothing to do with Ed Reed being a great player. Ed Reed does more than just create TOs. Teams like the Colts, Patriots, and Steelers dont turn the ball over much. Turnovers are usually created by playing bad teams. Name a good team that turns the ball over a lot?

Just because great teams are generally good at not turning the ball over doesn't mean a thing. Great teams are good at lots of facets of the game, that is why they are great. Obvious much?

And the Saints D does more than just create turnovers, they are top 10 in yards allowed and points allowed as well.

[jbergey22]

Actually they are 17th in Points Allowed per game and 11th in yards allowed per game prior to tonight.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by stevew

Let alone the pick sixes. This team goes down hard if they play anyone good.

The Saints have played a harder schedule than teams like the Colts and Vikings and have beaten everyone by double digits.

[stevew]

Delayed dola
The Saints should go 14-2 this year. Their schedule is easy. So they might not have to play away til the Super Bowl. Which will be their true test probably.

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Eh? Like the textbook White pushoff on the long TD? Like the ball White clearly dropped in the endzone that the ref right there managed to miss somehow? (At least replay got it right.) Saints plenty earned this game by getting the INT when they needed it and driving down the Falcon's throats when it counted.

White DID drop the ball no question but def pass interference should have been called. The def holding call a bit later against ATL not sure where they were watching when that was called. Whatever.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

The Saints have played a harder schedule than teams like the Colts and Vikings and have beaten everyone by double digits.

Vikings have played the Ravens, Steelers and Packers twice. Not sure how that schedule has been easier than what the Saints have played. At the time it appeared the Giants were tough but they look like barely a wild card team at his point? Who else? The team that lost to the Raiders?

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Vikings have played the Ravens, Steelers and Packers twice. Not sure how that schedule has been easier than what the Saints have played. At the time it appeared the Giants were tough but they look like barely a wild card team at his point? Who else? The team that lost to the Raiders?

See:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nfl09.htm

Vikings are close, but Saints are a shade better in strength of schedule. (And a shade definitely means something when you have no losses to one.) And the Saints strength of schedule goes even higher after tonight's game I believe.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Vikings have played the Ravens, Steelers and Packers twice. Not sure how that schedule has been easier than what the Saints have played. At the time it appeared the Giants were tough but they look like barely a wild card team at his point? Who else? The team that lost to the Raiders?

And the Vikings beat the Browns, got unbelievably lucky to beat the Niners, and the team that lost to the Rams. Your point?

[jbergey22]

OK Ill give u that I was actually looking at it at the same time. Vikings are 3-1 against top 10 teams and the Saints are 0-0(1-0) after tonight perhaps if the Falcons dont drop out. Saints must have played a lot of teams between 11-20 is all I can figure out.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

And the Vikings beat the Browns, got unbelievably lucky to beat the Niners, and the team that lost to the Rams. Your point?

??? Ok

Vikings got lucky to beat the Lions or is that what are you saying? Steelers got lucky to beat the Lions. I have no idea what this means.

Vikings and Saints have clearly been better than all the teams they have played this year. I didnt think that was debatable. As lucky as the Vikings were against the niners they were equally unlucky against the Steelers. Its the breaks in football.

[Abe Sargent]

Awesome game

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

??? Ok

Vikings got lucky to beat the Lions or is that what are you saying? Steelers got lucky to beat the Lions. I have no idea what this means.

You were bashing the teams the Saints played by saying they beat Philly, the team that lost to the Raiders. The Vikings beat the Lions, the team that lost to the Rams.

Basically I'm saying your strength of schedule argument is, um, pretty weak.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

You were bashing the teams the Saints played by saying they beat Philly, the team that lost to the Raiders. The Vikings beat the Lions, the team that lost to the Rams.

Basically I'm saying your strength of schedule argument is, um, pretty weak.

Perhaps but I never considered the Rams one of the toughest games on the Vikings schedule. I guess Id consider Giants, Eagles, and Falcons the 3 toughest teams the Saints have played so the fact that the Eagles lost to the Raiders has to have some merit.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Vikings have played the Ravens, Steelers and Packers twice. Not sure how that schedule has been easier than what the Saints have played. At the time it appeared the Giants were tough but they look like barely a wild card team at his point? Who else? The team that lost to the Raiders?

It seems more than just a little bit biased to try to discount the Saints wins over the Giants and Eagles and give your team credit for two wins over Green Bay, who, if you'll look, has a worse record than both the eagles and giants, and 3 of their 4 wins are against St Louis, Detroit, and Cleveland.


3 of Minnesota's wins are against the worst teams in the league(cleveland, detroit, st louis), two against Green Bay who haven't proven they can beat anyone at all yet, and a San Francisco team who is at best a bit of an engima and at worst an under .500 team who probably is a long shot for the playoffs. That leaves a Baltimore win and a loss to Pittsburgh.

New Orleans has only one gimme win against those "bottom 8 teams" that I think should be totally discounted, and wins over three legit playoff contenders in Atlanta, the Giants, and Eagles. All flawed, but all with the same or better records than anyone Minnesota has beaten.


I think they're both great teams. At this point, the NFC is New Orleans,Minnesota, and everyone else IMO. I would *love* to see them both in the NFC Title game and have thoroughly enjoyed watching both of them this year.


The saints schedule does get really easy the rest of the way with a glut of games against those horrible bottom 8 teams, but to this point so far I think its pretty close to a wash.

[Alan T]

Argh.. got my hopes up tonight and then had them crushed, only to get my hopes up again to just have them crushed again on a longshot at that!

What an evil game

[jbergey22]

Fair enough Radi. According to Jeff Sagarin(not sure if you put any stock into his computer rankings or not) Green Bay is ranked ahead of any team the Saints have played other than Atlanta. However I do agree that I shouldnt discount the Saints wins over the Giant or Eagles whom I actually do feel are much better than they have been playing.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Plus I'm pretty sure that the Saints D is rated pretty highly by Football Outsiders' metrics. The team reminds me a lot of the Rams from '99 and '01.

[jbergey22]

They are 5th. Green Bay is 1, Not sure how the hell that is.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Fair enough Radi. According to Jeff Sagarin(not sure if you put any stock into his computer rankings or not) Green Bay is ranked ahead of any team the Saints have played other than Atlanta. However I do agree that I shouldnt discount the Saints wins over the Giant or Eagles whom I actually do feel are much better than they have been playing.

9-13 in Sagarin's overall ratings are very very close to each other, Minnesota has lost to #9, beaten #10 twice, while New Orleans has beaten #11 and #12. Seems like it pretty much jives with my thinking. The Vikings have the best win by far(Ravens), but they're also not undefeated and have had 3 gimmes. The Saints have only had one gimme and a lot of pretty good wins, plus they're still undefeated. Seems like a wash to me that needs to get settled in January

[BishopMVP]

It's absolutely beautiful to watch Drew Brees' accuracy when he throws the ball. 1 yard in front of the receivers on crossing routes, perfectly to the back shoulder on sideline routes. Even when he "missed" by 2-3 inches dropping a 35 yard pass between defenders it required a heroic interception to defend it.