2014 NFL Regular Season, Week 2

[Qwikshot]

Seriously, as I've said, these are men who make serious money, they don't need to protect their children from the streets (they do apparently need to protect them from themselves).

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

I'd have shown him the door for a year. I think it's disgusting he gets a pass, and he is getting a pass. A regular guy doing this would have had his butt in jail and his kids taken away.

Sadly, no - as TroyF (and the Rice situation) pointed out, first-time offenders are rarely sent to jail for anything less than putting someone in the hospital.

And we still don't know whether he'll be punished by the state of Texas, or the NFL. I wouldn't have a problem with a team suspending a player once they're charged or booked, but I also don't really have a problem with the NFL deciding to wait until the trial happens (or, more likely, is pled out) and seeing what other information comes to light at that time/how the state (who has the authority to subpoena people and evidence) ends up punishing him.

Besides, it seems a bit of a crapshoot which people the media decides to be outraged about. The Greg Hardy 911 tape is out there, Terrell Suggs poured bleach on his wife and daughter, going back James Harrison got arrested for domestic violence multiple times, Greg Lloyd put a gun in his 9 year old's mouth and threatened to kill him, Dave Meggett was going around raping girls when he wasn't beating them up, etc. Those are just some of the ones I can think of off the top of my head, and I know it isn't fair to compare the NFL's discipline, but I don't recall the media making those a story either.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Seriously, as I've said, these are men who make serious money, they don't need to protect their children from the streets (they do apparently need to protect them from themselves).

Well, depends on how many kids they have. Every story involving AP involves another kid with a different woman in a different state - he might have more than Antonio Cromartie at this point! Maybe he's going for Shawn Kemp's record.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by molson

I would bet anything Ray Rice was "disciplined" like that as a child. That's what child abuse breeds, women beaters.

I'm not a perfect parent, but even I don't think it's a good idea to punish a one-year old harshly. Just because these guys grew up in that environment doesn't mean they shouldn't strive to be better than that. They also likely grew up watching their Moms and Sisters getting beat up as well.

My Grandpa beat my Dad, my Dad beat me. I made a conscious effort to not bring my kids up that way and it seems to have worked. That doesn't mean that there hasn't been a physical component to punishment but I always used it as a last resort and a way to grab their attention.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

And we still don't know whether he'll be punished by the state of Texas, or the NFL. I wouldn't have a problem with a team suspending a player once they're charged or booked, but I also don't really have a problem with the NFL deciding to wait until the trial happens (or, more likely, is pled out) and seeing what other information comes to light at that time/how the state (who has the authority to subpoena people and evidence) ends up punishing him.

Besides, it seems a bit of a crapshoot which people the media decides to be outraged about. The Greg Hardy 911 tape is out there, Terrell Suggs poured bleach on his wife and daughter, going back James Harrison got arrested for domestic violence multiple times, Greg Lloyd put a gun in his 9 year old's mouth and threatened to kill him, Dave Meggett was going around raping girls when he wasn't beating them up, etc. Those are just some of the ones I can think of off the top of my head, and I know it isn't fair to compare the NFL's discipline, but I don't recall the media making those a story either.

I'm still struggling with that question of what the league and team should do when charges are pending. If a conviction means a suspension, he won't end up with a conviction. Just like Rice. There will be mandatory parenting classes, a probation period, and then charges will be dismissed at the end of that. Maybe 1-2 years from now. There's no point to a punishment when you lose that immediacy. They'd be punishing a different guy. (And how can you punish a guy at all a year after the court system has dismissed his charges at the end of a diversion program)? Him playing this week sends the message that the Vikings and the NFL don't think this is a big deal, same with all the other examples you mentioned.

I think the NFL and the teams need bigger balls on all this. No player is that important. There's no protected liberty interest in playing football. Suspend with pay if you need to. The union with throw a fit, but this is the time to take on this fight, they have the public and media on their side.

[Sun Tzu]

Wait...people are now saying that it's okay to beat your kid?

What the fuck.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

but I don't recall the media making those a story either.

Anything for a buck, even faux outrage.

Did you see the SportsNation poll results about Peterson?
400k votes, 62% support his reinstatement.

Yeah yeah, I know, random poll,sports fan bias, people worried about their fantasy teams, all that.

But ... 3 states are 50-50, 3 states said no ... and 44 states approved.
Strongest approval is, as most of us would probably have bet, in the South.
But it's nearly 2:1 in California (not exactly a bastion of traditionalism), 60-40 in Washington, 63-37 in Arizona. (I'm trying to look far enough away from the NFC Central to avoid that bias).

Even with all the limitations of self-selecting polls, that's pretty strong results. Based on what's out there so far it seems pretty clear that this is an area where the media is creating headlines to fit a narrative that rings hollow with their viewers.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Anything for a buck, even faux outrage.

Did you see the SportsNation poll results about Peterson?
400k votes, 62% support his reinstatement.

Yeah yeah, I know, random poll,sports fan bias, people worried about their fantasy teams, all that.

But ... 3 states are 50-50, 3 states said no ... and 44 states approved.
Strongest approval is, as most of us would probably have bet, in the South.
But it's nearly 2:1 in California (not exactly a bastion of traditionalism), 60-40 in Washington, 63-37 in Arizona. (I'm trying to look far enough away from the NFC Central to avoid that bias).

Even with all the limitations of self-selecting polls, that's pretty strong results. Based on what's out there so far it seems pretty clear that this is an area where the media is creating headlines to fit a narrative that rings hollow with their viewers.

You can be against the act but still feel he deserves to play and let due process take its place.

TBH I don't know how I feel. I think it is a slippery slope to start fucking with peoples livlihood based on accusations, but I think what he did is vile and am disgusted there is a whole subset of our culture that feels this is normal.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm still struggling with that question of what the league and team should do when charges are pending. If a conviction means a suspension, he won't end up with a conviction. Just like Rice. There will be mandatory parenting classes, a probation period, and then charges will be dismissed at the end of that. Maybe 1-2 years from now. There's no point to a punishment when you lose that immediacy. They'd be punishing a different guy. (And how can you punish a guy at all a year after the court system has dismissed his charges at the end of a diversion program)? Him playing this week sends the message that the Vikings and the NFL don't think this is a big deal, same with all the other examples you mentioned.

I think the NFL and the teams need bigger balls on all this. No player is that important. There's no protected liberty interest in playing football. Suspend with pay if you need to. The union with throw a fit, but this is the time to take on this fight, they have the public and media on their side.

Agreed - they can't play this "we'll wait for the legal system to play itself out" card that much longer before people catch on to what a joke it is. The stuff gets plead down/dismissed/whatever by local prosecutors (because that's what they do or because they're fans) and then the league just goes "oh well there was no conviction so no big deal." Or it takes so long to play out in the courts that the guy's career is over/his role is reduced by the time the NFL gets around to punishing them.

Sponsors and fans need to continue to ratchet up the PR-pressure in order for the NFL to proactively address these situations.

Agree with you that there's no protected liberty interest in these guys playing football - so what if AP gets suspended and loses a year of his career. Maybe that'll show these other spoiled-ass grown men that they need to conduct themselves in a different manner. Will we miss seeing him on the field? Sure. But you know what - the league will go on just fine - somebody else will just have an opportunity to shine.

[molson]

I couldn't find the ESPN polls but the first few unscientific other polls I found on Google were hilariously worded. "Should Adrian Peterson be banned for spanking his child?" Others had three choices and two similarly answers that needed to be added together to get a real number. Edit: And I do think a lot of people are drawn to the idea of "lets let thing play out". Just like the NFL and the teams are. Because it's easier to just not take a stand either way.

[Lathum]

We have heard a lot of quotes like

“ it is a cultural thing”
“I was raised that way, my Dad did that to me”
“every black parent in the south would go to prison”

Basically a lot of commentary that it is normal in that culture and those not a part of that culture wouldn’t understand.
Perhaps there is a correlation to there being a much higher percentage of black men in prison and committing crimes because of this culture of discipline? Could it be that it is engrained in them from the time they can remember that if someone does something you don’t like that violence is the appropriate response?
Now obviously there are many black men disciplined this way that turn out fine, and many white men who don’t, so obviously it is somewhat of a generalization, but it seems to me that violently beating your child from the time they are a year old can certainly teach them violence is an OK response, and Barkley and others have basically said a large number of black parents engage in this behavior.
Not saying there aren’t a lot of other outside factors, and it is obviously a complex issue, but it certainly seems to me it contributes to a cycle of violent behavior.

[BillJasper]

There has to be a way to hold people accountable while things work through the legal system. Perhaps you take a large portion of said players paycheck every week for so many weeks. Put it in an interest earning account, if any verdict other than "not guilty" (no pleading out to lesser charges) is handed down, that salary is donated to charity.

Teams wouldn't get the same luxury. Have NFL Security grade every prospect based on his criminal history, if you take someone that has been flagged and they get in trouble while on your roster, you lose multiple high draft picks.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Perhaps there is a correlation to there being a much higher percentage of black men in prison and committing crimes because of this culture of discipline? Could it be that it is engrained in them from the time they can remember that if someone does something you don’t like that violence is the appropriate response?

This is probably putting a bit too sharp of a point on it, but it seems worth noting that we're talking about nearly an entire race/culture who were getting whipped into discipline a handful of generations ago. I don't think we can discount or dismiss that critical difference in history/culture, even if it now seems so far removed.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Lathum

We have heard a lot of quotes like

“ it is a cultural thing”
“I was raised that way, my Dad did that to me”
“every black parent in the south would go to prison”

Speaking as an abused child, the violence gets to a point where it didn't matter. The beatings I did deserve when I did really bad things had no impact on me because I was numb to the pain at that point. "No" didn't mean anything to me either.

[molson]

Any other job with public visibility, you're not going to be going to work like nothing happened while violent criminal charges are pending against you. I don't know what we have so much heartache over it when it's football players.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by molson

Any other job with public visibility, you're not going to be going to work like nothing happened while violent criminal charges are pending against you. I don't know what we have so much heartache over it when it's football players.

New England Patriots vs. Minnesota Vikings - Box Score - September 14, 2014 - ESPN

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Any other job with public visibility, you're not going to be going to work like nothing happened while violent criminal charges are pending against you. I don't know what we have so much heartache over it when it's football players.

Umm ... does "public visibility" = mainstream media attention there?

I mean, you can deal with the public while it's only a narrow segment of the public is what I'm getting at.

Not quite the same exact scenario, but what I'm getting at is something like a guy I worked with in Atlanta in the ad agency business. Agency president, he had criminal charges pending (drunkenly ran over a wedding party in his boat, maimed the bride, seriously injured another) but continued right along in his job, including working closely with a couple of very large global conglomerates AND attended industry awards shows & the like while those were being adjudicated. He was, for all intents, the "public face" of our company ... but the "public" was a very narrow subset.

I can't imagine the decision to leave him in place would have been any different if he had Petersen's charges instead of the ones he was facing.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

From the article you linked:

"Robert Larzelere, a professor at Oklahoma State University's Department of Human Development and Family Science, said he recommends parents take classes to learn different methods to discipline their kids. Reasoning with kids is great, he said, and "time out" can be a useful tool. But he doesn't want all parents -- or regulations - to rule out a calm, "non-abusive spank" for kids ages 2 to 6.

Spanking young children as a backup to "time out" or reasoning can reduce aggression and noncompliance, he said"


So there you have it, a professional opinion that spanking a child, at four years old, is acceptable in some cases. AP may have taken it too far in this case, but the concept is solidly rooted.

Now, the article has a lot of points about how spanking can be negative too, but if you want to build a case for rearing your own child, you can calmly spank your child as appropriate.

Equating a "non-abusive spank" to what Peterson did is a akin to someone drinking 4 bottles of wine and driving home with a justification of "my doc said a little wine every few days is good for my heart". They are leagues apart. I have an 18 month old and a 9 year old (both boys). I've slapped their hands lightly if they pushed someone/tried to bite in the 16 months to 4 year old time frame. But that's the extent. Never spanked nor hit in any fashion. My 9 year old is extremely well behaved and looks almost terrified of me when he does something wrong. But, not because of an impending beating, but because of a combination of the disapproval he will get from me and the loss of privileges he enjoys (Xbox, TV, legos, ...). Parenting is different for each kid and I think I will need to be a little more strict on my 18-month old (who resembles a mini terrorist right now), but there will never be a situation where striking him or beating him with some tool is justified.

I am completely fine with people defending a light spanking or smack on the hands when in the 2-4 range to help them understand what behavior is correct - but that's where it ends in my view. Equating a "light spanking" with what Peterson did is apples and oranges to me.

[DaddyTorgo]

Exactly Arles

[Arles]

Kudos to Minnesota governor Mark Dayton:
Minnesota governor Mark Dayton says Minnesota Vikings should suspend Adrian Peterson - ESPN

Mark Dayton -- who spearheaded the legislative fight for the Vikings' new $1 billion stadium and stood next to team owner Zygi Wilf at the groundbreaking last November -- released a statement on Tuesday saying he believes the Vikings should take Peterson off the field until his child abuse case is resolved in Montgomery County, Texas.

Peterson was indicted on one count of reckless or negligent injury to a child Thursday, stemming from an incident earlier this year where he used a switch to discipline his son, and he will make his first appearance in court on Oct. 8. His case might not go to trial until next year, however, and the Vikings announced on Monday that Peterson will be allowed to play while his case is being decided.

That move, Dayton said Tuesday, was a mistake.

"It is an awful situation," he said in a statement provided to The Associated Press. "Yes, Mr. Peterson is entitled to due process and should be 'innocent until proven guilty.' However, he is a public figure; and his actions, as described, are a public embarrassment to the Vikings organization and the state of Minnesota. Whipping a child to the extent of visible wounds, as has been alleged, should not be tolerated in our state. Therefore, I believe the team should suspend Mr. Peterson, until the accusations of child abuse have been resolved by the criminal justice system.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... does "public visibility" = mainstream media attention there?

I mean, you can deal with the public while it's only a narrow segment of the public is what I'm getting at.

Not quite the same exact scenario, but what I'm getting at is something like a guy I worked with in Atlanta in the ad agency business. Agency president, he had criminal charges pending (drunkenly ran over a wedding party in his boat, maimed the bride, seriously injured another) but continued right along in his job, including working closely with a couple of very large global conglomerates AND attended industry awards shows & the like while those were being adjudicated. He was, for all intents, the "public face" of our company ... but the "public" was a very narrow subset.

I can't imagine the decision to leave him in place would have been any different if he had Petersen's charges instead of the ones he was facing.

I guess there's a few ways to have public visibility as an employee. You can be famous, you can be a public employee, you can deal with the general public, or you can work for a company that interacts with the public or whom has high visibility with the general public. I think most of the above would be either outright fired, or put on some kind of leave if they were facing violent criminal charges. At some level, that's unfair. But in America, in most contexts, you can be fired (or suspended with pay) for almost anything. Violent criminal charges that have gotten through a grand jury or probable cause determination, along with evidence floating out in the media that anyone can see is plenty of justification. More "due process" is needed before the government can lock you up or give you that branding of a conviction, obviously, but employees are not so constrained. That sounds obvious, but when it comes to professional athletes, a lot of people seem to disagree. A lot of people, including the NFL as a whole, do see professional sports team employment as a protected liberty interest that needs to be protected to the same degree as someone's liberty in the criminal justice system.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

That sounds obvious, but when it comes to professional athletes, a lot of people seem to disagree.

And I guess (maybe?) what I was getting at is that perhaps I'm not the only person who has seen cases where there's simply no professional ramifications while something winds its way through the court. Perhaps -- and I'm as much spitballing here as anything, I'm certainly not making a definitive statement -- that's the root of some of this disagreement?

[Logan]

To me, "let it play out" in a situation like Ray McDonald's makes sense. He denies doing anything wrong. It might be 1%, but there's a chance he's telling the truth.

Peterson has admitted to what he's done. He's not denying that he produced what we have seen in those pictures, you have text messages from him admitting to everything, saying that this is how he disciplines. A team or a league can suspend him on that behavior alone and don't need to wait on anything.

One other thing...I know the legal system is overworked and it could take forever to get cases heard, but I'm not sure how much of that is defense lawyer-generated and how much is strain on the system (molson and others I'm sure can educate me). But if you instituted a policy where players facing charges start losing game checks immediately (or at least escrowing large portions as I proposed a few days ago), I bet you won't see too many of those delays take place if a player is desperate to clear their name while also barely earning a living, from their normal perspective.

I'm pretty sure McDonald was supposed to have his initial hearing relatively soon and it's been delayed, and may not have even been rescheduled yet. Again, I'm ignorant on how this works mechanically but if a judge ends up stating this was a delay caused by the defense, I'd be fine with the NFL stepping in at that point and saying you're suspended indefinitely. It's complete bullshit if these guys work the system just to delay paying the piper, all while being able to earn millions in the interim. And that's exactly what will end up happening with Peterson.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Logan

To me, "let it play out" in a situation like Ray McDonald's makes sense. He denies doing anything wrong. It might be 1%, but there's a chance he's telling the truth.

Peterson has admitted to what he's done. He's not denying that he produced what we have seen in those pictures, you have text messages from him admitting to everything, saying that this is how he disciplines. A team or a league can suspend him on that behavior alone and don't need to wait on anything.

One other thing...I know the legal system is overworked and it could take forever to get cases heard, but I'm not sure how much of that is defense lawyer-generated and how much is strain on the system (molson and others I'm sure can educate me). But if you instituted a policy where players facing charges start losing game checks immediately (or at least escrowing large portions as I proposed a few days ago), I bet you won't see too many of those delays take place if a player is desperate to clear their name while also barely earning a living, from their normal perspective.

This actually sorta makes sense...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And I guess (maybe?) what I was getting at is that perhaps I'm not the only person who has seen cases where there's simply no professional ramifications while something winds its way through the court. Perhaps -- and I'm as much spitballing here as anything, I'm certainly not making a definitive statement -- that's the root of some of this disagreement?

You two are disagreeing/quibbling over definitions of "public figure" and "in the public eye" and nothing else.

A CEO of anything less than say a Fortune 100 company is less "in the public eye" (even on a local basis) then a professional athlete. Yeah, it probably has to do with your "regularly attracting mainstream media attention" criteria.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Lathum

We have heard a lot of quotes like

“ it is a cultural thing”
“I was raised that way, my Dad did that to me”
“every black parent in the south would go to prison”

Basically a lot of commentary that it is normal in that culture and those not a part of that culture wouldn’t understand.
Perhaps there is a correlation to there being a much higher percentage of black men in prison and committing crimes because of this culture of discipline? Could it be that it is engrained in them from the time they can remember that if someone does something you don’t like that violence is the appropriate response?
Now obviously there are many black men disciplined this way that turn out fine, and many white men who don’t, so obviously it is somewhat of a generalization, but it seems to me that violently beating your child from the time they are a year old can certainly teach them violence is an OK response, and Barkley and others have basically said a large number of black parents engage in this behavior.
Not saying there aren’t a lot of other outside factors, and it is obviously a complex issue, but it certainly seems to me it contributes to a cycle of violent behavior.

First thing Jeffery Canada does in his Harlem Children Zone is have the parents go through "Baby College" which, at its core is teaching an alternative to physical discipline.

[Kodos]

If I was an owner, the policy for domestic violence against a woman or child would be simple: you are cut. Maybe my team wouldn't win much, but at least I could sleep at night knowing I took a stand against the assholes of the world.

[BillJasper]

Anheuser-Busch disappointed, concerned, dissatisfied with NFL | ProFootballTalk

I think this is where you'll begin to see real movement on these issues.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Anheuser-Busch disappointed, concerned, dissatisfied with NFL | ProFootballTalk

I think this is where you'll begin to see real movement on these issues.

The ESPN article noted that Anheuser-Busch spends $200 million a year with the NFL, and that even more fascinatingly, that 1 in 5 beers sold in this country is a Bud Light. Add that to the list of things, along with the tolerance for child abuse, that I don't get about "the south".

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

The ESPN article noted that Anheuser-Busch spends $200 million a year with the NFL, and that even more fascinatingly, that 1 in 5 beers sold in this country is a Bud Light. Add that to the list of things, along with the tolerance for child abuse, that I don't get about "the south".

LOL

I have a coworker who said he drinks Bud Light. I kinda thought he was kidding and so I made a joke about it...but no...he's serious.

I guess it infects even like...fine upstanding places in the North.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Anheuser-Busch disappointed, concerned, dissatisfied with NFL | ProFootballTalk

I think this is where you'll begin to see real movement on these issues.

Also saw that the Nike stores in the Twin Cities have pulled all their Peterson merchandise. And he lost Wheaties. And some pharma company.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Kodos

If I was an owner, the policy for domestic violence against a woman or child would be simple: you are cut. Maybe my team wouldn't win much, but at least I could sleep at night knowing I took a stand against the assholes of the world.

Cut for what though? Accusation? Guilty in a court of law? When would you make that determination?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Kodos

If I was an owner, the policy for domestic violence against a woman or child would be simple: you are cut. Maybe my team wouldn't win much, but at least I could sleep at night knowing I took a stand against the assholes of the world.

I'd rather win the Superbowl with unscrupulous players than go 0-16 with angels. I watch football to see great football players, not to set my moral compass.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

The ESPN article noted that Anheuser-Busch spends $200 million a year with the NFL, and that even more fascinatingly, that 1 in 5 beers sold in this country is a Bud Light. Add that to the list of things, along with the tolerance for child abuse, that I don't get about "the south".

Why exactly are you blaming "the south" for Bud Light?

(edit: I mean have you seen the obesity numbers for the South? What makes you think they'd drink any light beer?)

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Cut for what though? Accusation? Guilty in a court of law? When would you make that determination?

While it is a nebulous area, these teams are probably able to gather enough information to make an informed decision anytime they choose to. Part of it is background, part of it is how well you think you know the person and part of it is how likely you believe in the events that led you to have to make a decision and what immediate evidence you have.

Seems like in Rice, Peterson and Hardy's case, these guys should all be getting long vacations as soon as possible. Ray McDonald, I don't know?

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Why exactly are you blaming "the south" for Bud Light?

(edit: I mean have you seen the obesity numbers for the South? What makes you think they'd drink any light beer?)

Fair point.

And my perception (obviously I was just going for a silly zinger in the first place) may have been off. Favorite beer by state:

Map: America's favorite beers by state.

I didn't realize so many people were drinking Blue Moon. I live in a pretty snobby beer city where bud light gets just a tiny fraction of the supermarket beer coolers. It's just hard to compare that visual with the reality that bud light makes up 20% of the beer sold in the country.

[Sun Tzu]

I don't think Ray McDonald is going to miss a down. He hasn't been charged, and he claims that the whole thing is complete nonsense. It's a non-story that the NFL blew up when the Ray Rice thing was the hottest thing on TV. Now AP, Rice, Hardy (and others who have been proven guilty) are the hottest thing.

I'd love to see a public poll here asking if it's acceptable to beat your children to the point of leaving marks for the sake of "discipline."

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

I'd love to see a public poll here asking if it's acceptable to beat your children to the point of leaving marks for the sake of "discipline."

You'd get more honest answers with a private poll.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

You'd get more honest answers with a private poll.

If he's looking for honesty, yes.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Kodos

If I was an owner, the policy for domestic violence against a woman or child would be simple: you are cut. Maybe my team wouldn't win much, but at least I could sleep at night knowing I took a stand against the assholes of the world.

I kinda go back to an earlier point here about how much people really believe in recidivism and second chances. Unless you're Jon and ok with giving everyone the death penalty for misdemeanors, at some point you need to decide what the appropriate punishment is for something and then allow them to rejoin society.

We already know that domestic abuse is severely underreported in this country, and now imagine you're the wife or baby mama in one of the abusive relationships - if you go to the cops, you're now cutting the guy financially supporting you/your child off from potentially millions of dollars in future earnings? It's not a simple answer, and one of those things where a well-intentioned rule could backfire.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by molson

I didn't realize so many people were drinking Blue Moon. It's just hard to compare that visual with the reality that bud light makes up 20% of the beer sold in the country.

I'm not so sure Blue Moon is a top selling beer. It may be a favorite, I suppose, but not a top seller.

THE TOP 10 (SELLING) BEERS IN AMERICA 2012
1.Bud Light: 19.2% market share
2.Budweiser: 12%
3.Miller Light: 8.6%
4.Coors Light: 7.8%
5.Natural Light: 4.2%
6.Corona: 4%
7.Busch: 2.8%
8.Busch Light: 2.8%
9.Heineken: 2.4%
10.Miller High Life: 2.3%

I'm always disappointed with people who say they like beer and then name off one of these winners as their favorite.

The reality is (and we both KNOW this...) that when you're not at the bar, you're on the couch swilling your crap beer and gorging yourself on Totino's Pizza Rolls, twice-fried Honey Teriyaki wings, and eating vanilla cake frosting...from the can...with your fingers. So those are the top selling beers in America. They make up about 95% of ALL beer sold.

THE TOP 10 (SELLING) BEERS IN AMERICA 2012 - SaveOnBrew

So basically, that map you referenced surely just shows favorites, not what people will admit they drink. Gotta give them Southerners credit for always being honest when doing public polls!

WARNING: Pollster re-enactment

Phone Pollster: Hello, I would like to know your favorite beer and your current state.

Northern Pollster Looking at his fridge full of Bud Light: Erm, *ahem*, well, I prefer Blue Moon, it's smooth, crisp, and full bodied. I'm from the wonderful state of Maryland! Woo-hoo!

Southern Pollster Looking at his fridge full of Bud Light: Bud Light! Bud Light RULES! ...and what? Oh yeah, I'm in a drunken state! Hee-haw!!!

Personally, my favorite American beers that I drink somewhat regularly are Third Shift and Sam Adam's Boston Lager. But, I'll admit I have about 6 or 8 cans of Miller Lite in my beer fridge and only 3 bottles of Third Shift and no Sam Adams. I'm not proud of it, but that's the truth. When I'm outside grilling or working in the garage or washing the car and I want a beer...I'm not drinking a Sam Adams, I'm drinking a Miller Lite. If people are bringing beer to a party, it's always safe to bring Miller Lite or Bud Light....never be the dude that shows up with Krombacher Dark Dunkelveisen Kugelbacher. You will be known for the rest of the night as "the douche that brought that douche beer". So it starts to make sense why those piss-water beers dominate the American scene.

I will say that the bar scene and the dinner scene are starting to make the right choices. More and more people are going for a Sam Adams (or perhaps even a Blue Moon) than a Budweiser...and that's a good thing, America!


Also, FWIW...our Northern Brothers and Sisters...

Top Selling Beers in Canada
1. Budweiser
2. Coors Light
3. Molson Canadian (Molson Coors Co.)

And our Southern Brothers and Sisters...

Top Selling Beers in Mexico
1. Corona
2. Tecate
3. Dos Equis

Look at Mexico -- keepin' it real!

(EDIT: Weirdest and probably most irrelevant post I've ever made in the NFL Weekly threads...)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dutch

But, I'll admit I have about 6 or 8 cans of Miller Lite in my beer fridge and only 3 bottles of Third Shift and no Sam Adams. I'm not proud of it, but that's the truth. When I'm outside grilling or working in the garage or washing the car and I want a beer...I'm not drinking a Sam Adams, I'm drinking a Miller Lite. If people are bringing beer to a party, it's always safe to bring Miller Lite or Bud Light....never be the dude that shows up with Krombacher Dark Dunkelveisen Kugelbacher. You will be known for the rest of the night as "the douche that brought that douche beer". So it starts to make sense why those piss-water beers dominate the American scene.

Ah yes, what I refer to as "company beer" ... as in beer for company in a pinch. Also, random social gathering beer.

I wonder how much of Bud Light / Miller Lite sales that accounts for, I suspect it's no small amount.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I'm not so sure Blue Moon is a top selling beer. It may be a favorite, I suppose, but not a top seller.

THE TOP 10 (SELLING) BEERS IN AMERICA 2012
1.Bud Light: 19.2% market share
2.Budweiser: 12%
3.Miller Light: 8.6%
4.Coors Light: 7.8%
5.Natural Light: 4.2%
6.Corona: 4%
7.Busch: 2.8%
8.Busch Light: 2.8%
9.Heineken: 2.4%
10.Miller High Life: 2.3%

I'm always disappointed with people who say they like beer and then name off one of these winners as their favorite.


..)

I like beer. A lot. I pretty much exclusively drink Miller Lite

[cartman]

Blue Moon has a ridiculous streak going with their sales. Just announced a 75th consecutive quarter of growth.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I like beer. A lot. I pretty much exclusively drink Miller Lite

I'm suddenly sad for you. A Giants fan AND you submit yourself to terrible beer regularly?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I'm suddenly sad for you. A Giants fan AND you submit yourself to terrible beer regularly?

2 negatives equal a positive.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I like beer. A lot. I pretty much exclusively drink Miller Lite

It could be worse, you could be an exclusive Natural Light fan.

[lungs]

Gimme a Schlitz!

[Vince, Pt. II]

Here's a great article from Greg Cosell analyzing a few of Colin Kaepernick's plays from Sunday night. He's interviewed on KNBR (local sports radio) on a regular basis and he's apparently writing for Yahoo now. I could listen to him talk about football for hours.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cartman

Blue Moon has a ridiculous streak going with their sales. Just announced a 75th consecutive quarter of growth.

Damn, that's pretty impressive.