College Football Bowl Games/Playoffs discussion

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by cschex

SEC West: 2-5 this bowl season.

Speaking as an LSU fan my whole life, I will never buy into this whole "S-E-C" BS. I root any of our rivals because I hate them. What the hell is conference loyalty? I was very happy about that game last night

This is what perplexes me the most.
Until my hatred of the SEC fanbois took control I could never have imagined pulling for UNC, GT or NCSU. They were our rivals and enemies. I wanted to see them crushed at any opportunity.

Then the conference banter started and while I still cant pull for those my hatred for all things SEC exceeds my hatred of natural rivals. So I find myself pulling for GT to beat MSU just because.

[Edward64]

Haters will hate.

Let's not take away the SEC accomplishments for the past 8 years or so. I do like the 4 team playoffs, takes a lot of the fudge factor out.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

For the second year in a row, the SEC East Champs have the best bowl win in the conference! I like it!

[cschex]

I am not taking away from conference accomplishments (as my team was part of that run) but I just think the conference loyalty thing is crazy. I was chanting "Go to Hell Ole Miss" when I was 4, these hatreds run deep.

[lungs]

Not a big fan of OSU but I'll go with them over Bama every day and twice on Sunday.

[Edward64]

Why is conference loyalty a bad thing? I kinda think its natural?

You definitely root for your SEC team first and then for any SEC team against non-SEC. I guess if you had a SEC team your particularly hated, you can be excused from rooting for them.

[flounder]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Then the conference banter started and while I still cant pull for those my hatred for all things SEC exceeds my hatred of natural rivals. So I find myself pulling for GT to beat MSU just because.

Yeah. I'll pull for almost anyone against the SEC, but I was laughing my ass off at Florida State yesterday.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Haters will hate.

Let's not take away the SEC accomplishments for the past 8 years or so. I do like the 4 team playoffs, takes a lot of the fudge factor out.

I am not taking away what they have accomplished. Bama has been great for the pasy 6 years. Florida was great when UM was coaching there and Auburn had a great season the they had sCam Newton.

But, and again just my perspective, I live in the heart of SC Gamecock country. I hear regulalry "We have won 7 of the last 8 MNC"...no SC you have never won a NC and have 1 conference championship in your history in 1969, in the ACC. That is what pisses so many off about the SEC stuff. No one denies that Bama has been good under Saban. But please dont make out like Vandy, Kentucky, Ole Miss every year between Eli and this one, etc. are any more than the cannon fodder of the bottom end of other conferences.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Why is conference loyalty a bad thing? I kinda think its natural?

You definitely root for your SEC team first and then for any SEC team against non-SEC. I guess if you had a SEC team your particularly hated, you can be excused from rooting for them.

As long as you understand that this exists only in the SEC, then by all means carry on.

I bet you wont find many Michigan or Mich St fans that were pulling for Oh ST last night.

But there were a sportscenter special about Bama fans pulling for Auburn in the MNC game last year.

[Dutch]

I am a bit surprised at the ratio of "hatred of x" vs "support of y" in this thread.

[cschex]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Why is conference loyalty a bad thing? I kinda think its natural?

You definitely root for your SEC team first and then for any SEC team against non-SEC. I guess if you had a SEC team your particularly hated, you can be excused from rooting for them.

I believe you're an Arkansas fan, correct? Arkansas joined 20 years ago, and I dont have animosity towards them (my Dad's family is all in Arkansas and when I was growing up they were my 2nd team). But hating Ole Miss, Bama, Auburn, Florida etc, that goes back decades. Put it this way, would you ever root for Texas in anything - even if you were still in the SWC?

[flounder]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

As long as you understand that this exists only in the SEC, then by all means carry on.

I bet you wont find many Michigan or Mich St fans that were pulling for Oh ST last night.

But there were a sportscenter special about Bama fans pulling for Auburn in the MNC game last year.

It's strange because it's such a recent phenomenon. I grew up in Alabama as an Alabama fan and people would have sooner cut off their hands than root for the other team in anything. People who did root for both teams were derided as bandwagon jumpers.

[Dutch]

When MSST beat LSU and Texas A&M and Auburn, you better believe I wanted those teams to win out and get high in the rankings. Not because I like them, but because it would've helped MSST in the polls.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I am a bit surprised at the ratio of "hatred of x" vs "support of y" in this thread.

Bah - my rooting interests have been more against who I don't want to see win vs who I do for years now. (I suppose years of rooting for losers will do that.)

I actually rooted for Notre Dame over LSU. And I absolutely can't stand ND. But for the sake of feeding the SEC an ounce of humility - go Irish.

Same went for TCU, Wisky, GT (though part of me has always kinda liked GT), Ohio State.* If fans of SEC schools are going to root for themselves as a collective, then you should anticipate other fans rooting against you collectively.


* Ohio State is on my list of teams I really don't care for as well. As are Michigan and Nebraska. Even though I nominally root for Penn State (though perhaps more so now bc of Franklin), I'm not going to pull for any of those schools unless they are facing some greater evil.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Bah - my rooting interests have been more against who I don't want to see win vs who I do for years now. (I suppose years of rooting for losers will do that.)

This is me. My teams rarely win in football. I'm an IU fan, for god's sake. Futility defined. So I get my joy from watching teams I hate lose. Yesterday was awesome - first, FSU gets totally clobbered, and then Alabama loses after going up two scores early in the game.

Watching the SEC get humbled in the bowls has been fantastic.

[Dutch]

Watching the SEC get humbled in the bowls has been fantastic.

Fair and congratulations to TCU and GT and other non-SEC teams that played great this week, but to be clear, what you are saying requires the same mentality that would have people say "Watching the SEC dominate has been fantastic." We're not so different.

[Kodos]

If you guys weren't so collectively full of yourselves, I wouldn't care about the SEC.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by cschex

I believe you're an Arkansas fan, correct? Arkansas joined 20 years ago, and I dont have animosity towards them (my Dad's family is all in Arkansas and when I was growing up they were my 2nd team). But hating Ole Miss, Bama, Auburn, Florida etc, that goes back decades. Put it this way, would you ever root for Texas in anything - even if you were still in the SWC?

Yeah, I do remember the SWC days. I wouldn't root for TX if they were in the SEC (that would be my one to be excused from rooting for).

In the SEC, our biggest rivalry is LSU (but think MO is more natural). It would be great if we scheduled a TX non-conference every year.

Maybe its a southern thing? I do think what Dutch said is a factor. Rooting for SEC teams to win help overall rankings for SEC teams which leads to better bowls and/or beginning of year rankings.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Kodos

If you guys weren't so collectively full of yourselves, I wouldn't care about the SEC.

Why am I full of myself??? All I have done is cheered for Mississippi State this year?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Fair and congratulations to TCU and GT and other non-SEC teams that played great this week, but to be clear, what you are saying requires the same mentality that would have people say "Watching the SEC dominate has been fantastic." We're not so different.

Ah let it go Dutch. The haters have been waiting since 2006, admittedly we didn't do that well this year.

Rooting for OSU to smack Oregon and looking forward to next year for the Hogs.

[Kodos]

Dutch - not you personally. The SEC collectively, whether on this board, or on ESPN, or in the sports press. We are constantly force-fed SEC dominance. So, of course, we're going to enjoy it when the SEC West (the toughest division in the history of college football!) falls on its face in the bowl season.

Heck, I don't really even have anything against Mississippi State (aside from being in the SEC....)

[QuikSand]

Basically, this is what you have to live with if you really really want things to be settled in a playoff. And it's bound to turn into something worse in time. Eventually the push will win out and we will see an 8-team or 12-team thing become the championship, and the possibility for oddities will simply increase further.

Maybe this isn't the clearest cut case (with a one-loss soft #4 team OSU beating a one-loss soft #1 team Alabama by a non-razor-thin margin)... but eventually, it's going to happen. You're going to see a superpower undefeated #1 team get nipped in freak fashion by someone who squeaked in to the tournament as the #8 seed and won in some weird way (weather, fluke plays, who knows)... and then you'll have to look back on the "body of work" argument and just toss it out in the name of late-season excitement.

People who always say "settle it on the field" as if that's the infallible argument-ender seem to be suggesting that the first 15 weeks of the season were all played on a spreadsheet and only the playoff games really matter. Not true.

The more weight you put into the season-ending tournament, you more you cheapen the regular season. Every sport is moving this way, and it is good in some ways, but bad in others. You couldn't make most people (even sports fans) watch a regular season college basketball games with anything less than fire ants. Why invest in a super-lengthy pre-season?

[Kodos]

Besides, as FOFC's father of the anti-dynasty, it should be no surprise that I get a lot of enjoyment out of rooting against certain teams (and conferences).

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: conference loyalty, a great line from a Bama friend (re:Auburn)

"Just because the devil is in the Bible I don't root for him"

[Suicane75]

I still don't think he's someone I'd invest my money in, but Winston showed me something yesterday with how he acted, especially compared to the majority of his teammates.

And this narrative that OSU is weak has become more and more laughable as the season has progressed. They lost to a team they never should have lost to yes, but as a complete team they've been as good as anyone in the country for the past 3 months.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Why am I full of myself??? All I have done is cheered for Mississippi State this year?

As an aside, it was tough in my house this year.

My 16 y/o has been raised on GT and UT ... and no school is coming after him harder (for academics) than Mississippi State. In the end, his loyalties this year ended up being entirely with the Ramblin' Wreck but it was definitely an uncomfortable thing for him.

[cartman]

On a kinda related note, tonight at 8pm Central the NFL Network's 'A Football Life' will have its first episode that will focus on college football, a look back at the epic USC-Texas 2006 Rose Bowl game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Maybe its a southern thing?

I definitely would not underestimate that.

Regionality over (nearly) anything. There ARE exceptions for most of us I think, some teams that we simply cannot bring ourselves to root for no matter who the opponent but on the whole we're pretty loyal regionally.

I was reminded just how deep that runs when I caught flak in my own house this week for merely hoping that Ohio State would acquit themselves well last night. But when my wife -- a lifelong Vol raised on 3rd Saturday In October -- was completely sold out for Bama last night (and gave me some very hard looks for not being upset that the game was even close), well, there it is.

[Kodos]

I'm definitely in the "hate OSU" camp, especially with Urban on board, but last night, I actually found myself cheering each time the game broke their way. In the Oregon game, it will be back to business as usual. The whole "Big Ten is crap" thing definitely was a big (B1G) factor in my rooting FOR Ohio State.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

As an aside, it was tough in my house this year.

My 16 y/o has been raised on GT and UT ... and no school is coming after him harder (for academics) than Mississippi State. In the end, his loyalties this year ended up being entirely with the Ramblin' Wreck but it was definitely an uncomfortable thing for him.

Mississippi State is a pretty good university, particularly for engineering and agriculture science. It's far enough away from...pretty much everything...so he could focus on school!

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Basically, this is what you have to live with if you really really want things to be settled in a playoff. And it's bound to turn into something worse in time. Eventually the push will win out and we will see an 8-team or 12-team thing become the championship, and the possibility for oddities will simply increase further.

Maybe this isn't the clearest cut case (with a one-loss soft #4 team OSU beating a one-loss soft #1 team Alabama by a non-razor-thin margin)... but eventually, it's going to happen. You're going to see a superpower undefeated #1 team get nipped in freak fashion by someone who squeaked in to the tournament as the #8 seed and won in some weird way (weather, fluke plays, who knows)... and then you'll have to look back on the "body of work" argument and just toss it out in the name of late-season excitement.

People who always say "settle it on the field" as if that's the infallible argument-ender seem to be suggesting that the first 15 weeks of the season were all played on a spreadsheet and only the playoff games really matter. Not true.

The more weight you put into the season-ending tournament, you more you cheapen the regular season. Every sport is moving this way, and it is good in some ways, but bad in others. You couldn't make most people (even sports fans) watch a regular season college basketball games with anything less than fire ants. Why invest in a super-lengthy pre-season?

The playoffs will always bloat. It really takes away so much of the mysticism of a great regular season though for exactly the reasons you cite.

In Major League Baseball, for instance.

The top two AL teams were the Angels (98 wins) and the Orioles (96 wins)
The top two NL teams were the Nationals (96 wins) and the Dodgers (94 wins)

Not only did these pairs not meet, 3 of the 4 were beat out in the first round of the playoffs and none of them were in the World Series. Talk about losing a great opportunity to hype baseball. Don't get me wrong, it was a great World Series, but I couldn't help but think, "These guys just got hot/lucky at the right time and aren't really the best teams in baseball." Same for when the Arizona Cardinals were playing Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl...or if...gasp!...the Panthers go to the Super Bowl.

So I agree 100%, it leaves a lot to be desired by marginalizing the regular season and going for the small sample size of the playoffs to determine our champions.

In the case of NCAAF, I'm torn on the matter because the way to determine the champion has always been kind of goofy, so I agree with the playoff system and I support it's expansion (because of teams like TCU and Baylor getting no shot when OSU gets one), but at the same time, I expect no upsets...which is completely unrealistic.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Basically, this is what you have to live with if you really really want things to be settled in a playoff. And it's bound to turn into something worse in time. Eventually the push will win out and we will see an 8-team or 12-team thing become the championship, and the possibility for oddities will simply increase further.

Maybe this isn't the clearest cut case (with a one-loss soft #4 team OSU beating a one-loss soft #1 team Alabama by a non-razor-thin margin)... but eventually, it's going to happen. You're going to see a superpower undefeated #1 team get nipped in freak fashion by someone who squeaked in to the tournament as the #8 seed and won in some weird way (weather, fluke plays, who knows)... and then you'll have to look back on the "body of work" argument and just toss it out in the name of late-season excitement.

People who always say "settle it on the field" as if that's the infallible argument-ender seem to be suggesting that the first 15 weeks of the season were all played on a spreadsheet and only the playoff games really matter. Not true.

The more weight you put into the season-ending tournament, you more you cheapen the regular season. Every sport is moving this way, and it is good in some ways, but bad in others. You couldn't make most people (even sports fans) watch a regular season college basketball games with anything less than fire ants. Why invest in a super-lengthy pre-season?

Very well said (as usual), given my anti-playoffs/anti-BCS bias. For those wanting 8- or 12-team playoffs, you want weekday games extending to the end of January?!? (NFL owns January weekends.) There were concerns about attendance even for the semi-final rounds.

You guys are making this much more important than it should be. The beauty of college football over the years have been the rivalry games and rivalry weekend(s). The postseason in football has simply been a reward for a good regular season, to someplace warm for the team, boosters and fans.

[ColtCrazy]

I generally have a lot of conference loyalty to the Big Ten. I'm an IU first, but I have a ton of respect for Izzo and will root for the Spartans in most situations. I don't mind most of the other schools. Now, that loyalty doesn't extend to Ohio St. (with last night being a very rare exception) or Purdue.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I'm definitely in the "hate OSU" camp, especially with Urban on board, but last night, I actually found myself cheering each time the game broke their way. In the Oregon game, it will be back to business as usual. The whole "Big Ten is crap" thing definitely was a big (B1G) factor in my rooting FOR Ohio State.

Ditto. Okay, you made the Big Ten look good, Buckeyes. No need giving you and your insufferable alumni a national championship. Your work here is done. Go Ducks!

[Kodos]

To paraphrase Churchill: "The playoffs are the worst way to determine a champion, except for all the others."

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

I generally have a lot of conference loyalty to the Big Ten. I'm an IU first, but I have a ton of respect for Izzo and will root for the Spartans in most situations. I don't mind most of the other schools. Now, that loyalty doesn't extend to Ohio St. (with last night being a very rare exception) or Purdue.

Haha...can't help but be reminded of this.

"Hey, Mr. Rutteger after the Notre Dame game can we watch the Purdue game?"

"The only team we watch in this house is Notre Dame."

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Kodos

To paraphrase Churchill: "The playoffs are the worst way to determine a champion, except for all the others."

You need playoffs, but to what extent? Where is the sweet-spot? Sometimes we reach that and sometimes we over-extend....well, pretty much we always will over-extend if somebody can make some money off of it somewhere.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by Kodos

To paraphrase Churchill: "The playoffs are the worst way to determine a champion, except for all the others."

That's one of the reasons why the Premiership appeals to me. The champion wins the league. Period. No denying they were the best team that year. The Cup has meaning but isn't nearly as prestigious as winning the title. That would never fly here, but there's something to be said for the best team vs. a team that gets hot (or isn't as injured) at the right time.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Dutch

You need playoffs, but to what extent? Where is the sweet-spot? Sometimes we reach that and sometimes we over-extend....well, pretty much we always will over-extend if somebody can make some money off of it somewhere.

I think 8 is really the sweet spot. 16 would be too big.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I think 8 is really the sweet spot. 16 would be too big.

And that's what she said.

Seriously, I agree. 16 would just really be too many teams and extend the playoffs too much. I thin 8 teams is about right. I can't see a lower ranked team realistically winning a title anyway.

[MrBug708]

Remember when Urban Meyer was laughed at for trying to teach the SEC a thing or two about football? Seems like he's doing fine. Still.

[flounder]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

That's one of the reasons why the Premiership appeals to me. The champion wins the league. Period. No denying they were the best team that year. The Cup has meaning but isn't nearly as prestigious as winning the title. That would never fly here, but there's something to be said for the best team vs. a team that gets hot (or isn't as injured) at the right time.

The reason that works though is that each team plays every other team twice, home and away. In college football, every team's schedule is different. The regular season just isn't sufficient to determine the best team.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Ah let it go Dutch. The haters have been waiting since 2006, admittedly we didn't do that well this year.

Rooting for OSU to smack Oregon and looking forward to next year for the Hogs.

I am sure this isnt how you meant it. But there is a 5 page thread on one of Clemson's boards this AM referencing a SC board post that says and I quote "We have to pull for OSU. If they beat Oregon then Bama is clearly #2 since they lost to OSU first. There by SEC gets a share of the #2.

Thats the logic we are dealing with here from many people.

(Btw I think this game gets UGLY early. But I would have loved to see Bama - Oregon. Just because of styles. Saban's prototype big DL and ILB would have been bad against Oregon. I honestly think Oregon might have scored 70+ on Bama)

The raeson I think so many hate on SEC is really more ESPN that SEC. For example:
SEC Speed. Just stop it. Eveyrone has speed and if the SEC is known for anthing its size and power not speed.
Have you watched the ESPN coaches wives special? "In the SEC it takes a strong woman behind every man."
In the SEC they play grown man football.
Last night Mark Nessler said after the game. Regardless of the outcome Bama is still the #1 team in the country.
During the Clemson-OU game, the ESPN announcer jokingly said the entire SEC West would be favored over either Super Bowl team this year.
What about the SEC storied series on ESPN. I bet there are some amazing Pac 12, Big 12 and Big 10 stories...maybe even an ACC story or two.

Originally Posted by Suicane75

And this narrative that OSU is weak has become more and more laughable as the season has progressed. They lost to a team they never should have lost to yes, but as a complete team they've been as good as anyone in the country for the past 3 months.

I don't know if they are strong or weak or whatever. I know they just won their second big game with their 3rd string QB. Not sure how many other teams could do that.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Mississippi State is a pretty good university, particularly for engineering and agriculture science. It's far enough away from...pretty much everything...so he could focus on school!

Let's not get crazy here, Mississippi State is a good school, perhaps for Mississippi standards. It is not in the same universe as GT.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by miked

Let's not get crazy here, Mississippi State is a good school, perhaps for Mississippi standards. It is not in the same universe as GT.

I'm not saying it's better (or worse) than GT.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I agree the magic carpet ride will be over for OSU and their fans should be careful what they wish for. I will echo other posters comments and wish it was Oregon vs TCU.

Careful what we wish for? What, playing for the national championship?

Oregon wins by 30, oh well they were supposed to. All along, OSU fans were expecting the team to be building for next season anyway, after having been "forced" to use our 2nd string QB all year, and a defense that is very underclassman-heavy.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Careful what we wish for? What, playing for the national championship?

Oregon wins by 30, oh well they were supposed to. All along, OSU fans were expecting the team to be building for next season anyway, after having been "forced" to use our 2nd string QB all year, and a defense that is very underclassman-heavy.

This. I went into this season expecting three or four losses. I expected them to lose to MSU. I expected they would get rolled by Wisconsin. I expected Alabama would figure out a third string QB.

At this point I'm fine with whatever happens next Monday. The team has far exceeded expectations, and I'm thrilled.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

As an aside, it was tough in my house this year.

My 16 y/o has been raised on GT and UT ... and no school is coming after him harder (for academics) than Mississippi State. In the end, his loyalties this year ended up being entirely with the Ramblin' Wreck but it was definitely an uncomfortable thing for him.

Gotta be strange for him to have college transition from abstract teams that you root for or against to actual institutions that he may or may not be attending.

(I went D3 for college, so I never really had to make that transition).

[larrymcg421]

IMO, any Canes fans who were rooting for FSU out of conference loyalty are not true Canes fans.

[albionmoonlight]

Dola

Props to OSU. When it was 21-6 last night, if you had offered me 50-1 odds that OSU would win, I probably would have turned you down. That game had all the feels of a 40-point Alabama blowout. Lot of maturity on OSU to keep level headed and come back.

(As an aside, I know that some sportsbooks offer real-time wagers during the game. Is there any way to find out what the highest odds against OSU were at any point in the game?)