Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Young Drachma]

Baylor University || Baylor Nation || Don't Mess With Texas Football

This is like...sad.

[RainMaker]

They should understand that arguing about tradition in college football only matters when defending the dumb bowl system.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

There's some embarrassingly bad reporting going on regarding this individual waiver thing. Baylor is trying to say they're not the only one holding this situation up. While this story is true that they aren't the only one to not waive their lawsuit rights, Baylor is the only one threatening litigation. If there's anything that we've learned from these SWC schools, it's that they know how to pass the buck.

Baylor, 5 other Big 12 schools could threaten legal action as SEC invites Texas A&M | Wacotrib.com

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Baylor University || Baylor Nation || Don't Mess With Texas Football

This is like...sad.

I've seen it suggested today that the SEC isn't amused that it's Baylor and Iowa State holding this up and may call their bluff.

Would them not suing when Colorado and Nebraska left invalidate any lawsuit against other Big 12 teams?

[MJ4H]

For the record, the Big 12 has reached out to Arkansas (again) and has (again) been told no.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

For the record, the Big 12 has reached out to Arkansas (again) and has (again) been told no.

At this point, the Big 12 has become like that annoying GM in MP text sim leagues who constantly asks you if you're willing to trade one of your best players when all they have to offer is scrubs back.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Would them not suing when Colorado and Nebraska left invalidate any lawsuit against other Big 12 teams?

The devil is in the details, so take this with a grain of salt.

But, in general, there has to exist a pattern of allowing behavior before courts will say that you have equitably lost your right to sue.

So, if we have a contract that says you have to be at work by 8:00, and you show up at 8:30 one day and I let it slide, that does not mean that I can't sue you for breach of contract the next time you do it.

But, if you show up for work at 8:30 for years and I say nothing about it. Then suddenly decide to sue you on it, the courts may decide that our contract had been modified by our course of dealing and throw out my suit. (More broadly, the law likes settled expectations, be they enforced by tort, contract, or course of dealing. It is harder to sue on a contract when everyone reasonably expects that the contractual provisions are not going to be enforced).

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Izulde

At this point, the Big 12 has become like that annoying GM in MP text sim leagues who constantly asks you if you're willing to trade one of your best players when all they have to offer is scrubs back.

This is the text that the Big East commish got from the Big 12 commish this week:

Need some advice, lol. What better: SMU or Houston?

[General Mike]

The Big East teams tried to sue the ACC when that raid happened and all they got out of it was a handful of non-conference series out of it. Baylor and anyone else won't get much more than that.

[sterlingice]

Some money as a parting gift before you get screwed is still better than no money as a parting gift

SI

[fpres]

October 15, 2011
3:30 PM ET No. 20 Baylor at No. 7 Texas A&M

That should be good.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Texas A&M Aggies accepted into SEC, but legal threat delays move - ESPN

During Wednesday's call, the source said Texas A&M president R. Bowen Loftin asked if the schools would waive their right to litigation and only one -- Oklahoma -- agreed to do so. Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa State, Texas, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State would not, the source said.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Texas A&M Aggies accepted into SEC, but legal threat delays move - ESPN

During Wednesday's call, the source said Texas A&M president R. Bowen Loftin asked if the schools would waive their right to litigation and only one -- Oklahoma -- agreed to do so. Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa State, Texas, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State would not, the source said.

Lawl. Just send them back. We don't need "superconferences".

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Lawl. Just send them back. We don't need "superconferences".

This train is moving and nobody is going to stop it. Maybe delay it for a year or two or three. . . but it's happening.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TroyF

This train is moving and nobody is going to stop it. Maybe delay it for a year or two or three. . . but it's happening.

To the detriment of all the conferences concerned.

[fpres]

Originally Posted by TroyF

This train is moving and nobody is going to stop it. Maybe delay it for a year or two or three. . . but it's happening.

This.

Regardless of one's opinion on conference realignment... If A&M doesn't blow it up now, then OU will later. Or Texas. The 'tag-along' schools need to accept this and prepare accordingly.

[Radii]

I may get more entertainment out of this thread than I did Maximum Football if this keeps going on much longer. So much fun.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

To the detriment of all the conferences concerned.

I would disagree. The Pac-16 with Texas and Oklahoma is stronger than the PAC-12 with a better chance to consistently compete for National Championships.

[tarcone]

My head is spinning. This is just a bad drama.

[Swaggs]

So, any truth to the rumor going around that Oklahoma has agreed to stay and that the nine Big 12 schools have agreed to stick together with equal revenue sharing?

[fpres]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Baylor University || Baylor Nation || Don't Mess With Texas Football

This is like...sad.

LOL at this. It's funny how tradition didn't seem to matter to Baylor when they joined in on the screwing over of some of their fellow Texas schools from the old Southwest Conference (Rice, SMU, TCU, Houston). I guess it only matters if you're on the outside looking in.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

So, any truth to the rumor going around that Oklahoma has agreed to stay and that the nine Big 12 schools have agreed to stick together with equal revenue sharing?

No. What about the one about the SEC arranging for all the teams in the Big X to get a soft landing? That's a cool story.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I would disagree. The Pac-16 with Texas and Oklahoma is stronger than the PAC-12

I'll concede that point. Truth is I forgot all about the Pac-Random# when I said that.

with a better chance to consistently compete for National Championships.

... at least for the teams that aren't remotely "Pacific" in any way.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

... at least for the teams that aren't remotely "Pacific" in any way.

Right, because it's not like any of the teams along the Pacific have won national championships in the recent past...

...oh wait, that's not true at all.

[dawgfan]

Latest from Wilner on the Pac-12/Oklahoma/Texas scenario:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...ls/#more-21166

Quick summary is, the Pac would take the Oklahoma schools with or without Texas as a hedge against future expansion, provided the SEC moves first by taking Texas A&M and thus (presumably) kicking off the super-conference race.

Also, Kansas & Kansas State may indeed get serious consideration as the 15th & 16th teams.

I expect that this is probably more negotiating ploys by Larry Scott to put pressure on Texas, but personally, I'd be fine adding the Oklahoma and Kansas schools to the mix.

[DeToxRox]

If we got the right collection of schools to go with them, I wouldn't mind Kansas in the Big Ten. Would love to let SI be subjected to some Big Ten hoops.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by General Mike

No. What about the one about the SEC arranging for all the teams in the Big X to get a soft landing? That's a cool story.

Outside of losing our AQ spot, going to a 14-team Big East with the Big 12 leftovers is pretty much the worst case scenario that I can think of for WVU (and I imagine most of the Big East schools).

I would think the Big 12 leftovers would rather add BYU, Air Force, Boise State, and a couple of Texas schools (Houston, SMU, UTEP, Rice, maybe TCU?) and take their chances. If Pitt, Rutgers, WVU, and Syracuse were able to hold a BCS spot then those five schools with Boise State and BYU would be fine.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Right, because it's not like any of the teams along the Pacific have won national championships in the recent past...

The odds of that happening again are longer, because of the sudden increase in difficulty of being in position to do (assuming the Pac 16 alignment that seems to be getting so much discussion).

Come to think of it {checks list} which one of these recent national champions are you claiming as being along the Pacific?

Auburn, Alabama, Florida, LSU, Texas, Ohio State, Miami, Oklahoma, FSU, Tennessee

Because that's the entire list of champions in the BCS era.

[Young Drachma]

I think dawg is talking about USC's now "vacated" title.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I think dawg is talking about USC's now "vacated" title.

Ohhhhhhhhhh.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

They like to abstain. Courteously.

SI

Love that reference.

[sterlingice]

Gotta add a little culture now and again, KWhit

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

If we got the right collection of schools to go with them, I wouldn't mind Kansas in the Big Ten. Would love to let SI be subjected to some Big Ten hoops.

No thanks, I prefer basketball scores in the double digits

If KU ended up in the Big Ten (Big Sixteen? Whatever?), I'd be extremely happy. However, I think it's so far remote and below Big East, Pac-XX, reformed Big XII, Mountain West, and even ACC, tho, to even consider. I'll be happy so long as we land in a conference with an auto-qualifier for the BCS, even if we never get a chance to take advantage of said qualifier.

Without Texas would be a plus since I want our next conference to last a few years and not just until they decide they want to start the Longhorn Internet to make more money or whatever in 10 years.

Also, I'm happy we're at the top of our basketball game, so to speak. At least we have something to offer another conference we might be going to. Imagine if we were in the midst of being down like, say, Indiana right now. Yeah, they're probably on their way back up but it's enough for people to not say "they're an elite talent". I feel quite a bit for K-State. They've had a lot of success in the last 20 years with Bill Snyder's amazing football job and even basketball has had some success of late. But their football is down whereas if this had happened 10 years ago when they were knocking on the door of a couple of different BCS bids, they'd be a lot stronger contender for different conferences.

SI

[Radii]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

If we got the right collection of schools to go with them, I wouldn't mind Kansas in the Big Ten. Would love to let SI be subjected to some Big Ten hoops.

Oh man that's mean. 2014 Big Ten Championship: Kansas 32, Indiana 29!!!

[Radii]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

If KU ended up in the Big Ten (Big Sixteen? Whatever?), I'd be extremely happy. However, I think it's so far remote and below Big East, Pac-XX, reformed Big XII, Mountain West, and even ACC, tho, to even consider. I'll be happy so long as we land in a conference with an auto-qualifier for the BCS, even if we never get a chance to take advantage of said qualifier.

Kansas in the ACC would be awesome, for no other reason than the enjoyment I'd get soaking in the Roy Williams hate one-three times a year.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sounds like A&M and OU are both ready to call Baylor's bluff. OU is ready to leave and it doesn't sound like they're concerned about any threats from Baylor. One of the OU reporters went to the extent to tweet that Baylor is blackmailing OU behind closed doors. Pretty good discussion here of why Baylor's case is on shaky ground.

Why Baylor's Claims Against the SEC Have No Merit : Outkick The Coverage

In the local KC paper, MU's Deaton pretty much admits what everyone already knows. MU is talking to other conferences.......

Deaton seems to indicate MU is talking to other conferences | Campus Corner

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Radii

Kansas in the ACC would be awesome, for no other reason than the enjoyment I'd get soaking in the Roy Williams hate one-three times a year.

There would be some but a lot of that got out of the KU system in the Final Four game in 2008. Always seemed silly to me since I can't fault a guy a whole lot for going to his alma mater and another elite program.

SI

[DeToxRox]

I had to rescind my Maryland love after their jersey fiasco. Notre Dame, Pitt, Duke and North Carolina is my dream scenario for the Big Ten. Duke and NC won't happen, but ND and Pitt are likely I would imagine.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I had to rescind my Maryland love after their jersey fiasco. Notre Dame, Pitt, Duke and North Carolina is my dream scenario for the Big Ten. Duke and NC won't happen, but ND and Pitt are likely I would imagine.

I don't comprehend how Pitt is part of anyone's dream scenario.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I don't comprehend how Pitt is part of anyone's dream scenario.

I wanna' actually play against Gibby, damnit.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

There would be some but a lot of that got out of the KU system in the Final Four game in 2008. Always seemed silly to me since I can't fault a guy a whole lot for going to his alma mater and another elite program.

SI

SI is right. Most Kansas fans have come to terms with Roy at UNC. You might have the occasional troll, but for the most part Roy would be welcomed back to Lawrence with open arms. I'd love to see him come back at some point in time just to be honored for all his work at Kansas.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I had to rescind my Maryland love after their jersey fiasco. Notre Dame, Pitt, Duke and North Carolina is my dream scenario for the Big Ten. Duke and NC won't happen, but ND and Pitt are likely I would imagine.

I'd like the Big Ten to add ND and Pitt as well. Pitt would make a nice rival again for PSU. No interest in Duke and NC joining.

If we go to 16, I'd like to see Kansas join, as my wife went there. No strong feelings on team 16. Maybe Syracuse.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another post from the TTRaider on Tigerboard. Doesn't sound too pleased with the desperation by a couple of schools in the B12.......

I promise, I'll have at MOST one last post after this one and that will be the one I come clean on who Mondo is and our roles in all of this.

The ONE legal hurdle came back to sort of bite all of us. Mondo thought it had been cleared with the league release, but obviously, he was wrong.

You guys, I'm sure, along with the rest of us, have totally enjoyed the big "screw you" given to Dodds and Texas.

Dodds abuse of the conference, and in many ways, misreading of Texas' place in the conference, is, well, mind numbing to say the least. I really think there is some dementia at play there.

In a strange way, this is Nebraska's fault. Dodds didn't get over Nebraska calling the Texas' hand over media rights and is hell bent on showing off Texas' power.

When Beebe and Dodds tried to force Nebraska to state their intentions and Perlman and Osborne came up with the media rights pledge to the conference, it was like drawing the ace of spades on the river to finish off a royal flush.

Depantsed is the nice way to describe what happened to Dodds and Beebe in that deal. So, that takes us to where we are today.

Now, aTm calls Texas' hand this year, the only thing worse than having Nebraska call your hand is having your step brother do it.

Dodds still thinks Texas controls everything and lo and behold, he get's another giant screw you. Once again, huge embarrassment for Dodds and TX.

Dodds has called in every media favor he has to make this look like aTm's fault. I don't think many people are buying it.

In Dodds mind this conference is about TX and a little bit about OU and to hell with everyone else. The rest of us are getting paid more than we are worth because of Texas.

Then what happens? One more VERY LARGE PUBLIC screw you, this time from former senator Boren and Oklahoma.

So, up until now, Texas has been basically riding bareback on everyone in the conference, and ooops, now it's time for a little pay back.

The top schools left, OU and MU, took care of fall back positions quite awhile ago. They are just starting to be known. The Texas nonsense has just pushed everything along.

The timing might not be perfect, but it WILL happen, MU to SEC, OU to Pac xx and OSU is safe there too.

We thought we had TT safe, but pathetically, we could still get screwed by Texas, but my feelings? Dodds will take Texas indy before he admits he screwed the pooch. As his brain atrophies, his ego seems to explode.

Beebe has to do all his bidding by using the "unprotected" teams to make it look like a more of united front.

Anyway, the legal saber rattling is pretty much over at this point and aTm will celebrate the deal by Tuesday, if not sooner.

[DeToxRox]

Here is the latest from the Big Ten "insider". He's been solid with info and is connected to the Big Ten offices.

PURPLE Book Cat

Post #860 Chicago MyFanPage Add Buddy Ignore Terms Presented by Notre Dame and Texas Reply Earlier this evening, Notre Dame and Texas jointly presented the Big Ten Conference with their proposed terms of entry into the conference. These terms resulted from lengthy discussions among both schools and the Big Ten over the past several months.

The major items include: 1. The preservation of an eight game (plus championship) conference football schedule. Both ND and Texas wish to preserve rivalries with non-Big Ten universities on a regular basis. This would require the Big Ten to abandon its current plans of a 9 game conference schedule. 2. The staggering of the schedule to allow for mid-season scheduling with non-conference football opponents. 3. The preservation of the status quo conference makeup until approximately 2014, unless the Big XII fails to retain key (NOT including A&M) conference members. This will provide the member schools, acting in unison, with the greatest leverage negotiating ongoing television contracts, particularly with ESPN. 4. Should Texas depart the conference for the Big Ten before ND due to the further disintegration of the Big XII, ND will remain independent until approximately 2014 5. The Longhorn Network would remain independent until approximately 2014, at which point the network would become a part of an expanded Big Ten Network (specifically referred to as "BTN2"), likely either in partnership with Fox, NBC, or less likely ABC

The Big Ten just wrapped up a meeting to initially consider all of the terms presented by the schools, including the aforementioned.

Notably, there is a general discontent with the reporting of the situation by ESPN with specific regard to Texas. ESPN has, for self-serving purposes, drastically exaggerated the lean of Texas to the Pac12 conference in nearly all commentary. ESPN has essentially waged a propaganda campaign to drive support among the Texas stakeholders to the Pac12 conference. ESPN has gone so far as to attempt to accelerate the disintegration of the Big XII to pressure Texas into making an immediate conference change decision. Texas has steadfastly resisted change, and will do so until the appropriate time occurs for Texas to stand in a strong position to renegotiate television contracts, including with ESPN.

In reality, the preference expressed by Texas' relevant leadership is to depart the Big XII for the Big Ten at the time that gives Texas the greatest leverage in negotiating a new television rights deal. The Big Ten and Texas agreed that Texas should do what is best for Texas, which they also both agree is a move by Texas to join the Big Ten Conference. Delaney's top priority has been to create an environment for Texas and Notre Dame to join the conference on mutually benefical terms.

Notre Dame has an interest in preserving its traditional rivalries, three of which occur already in the Big Ten, and creating a new national rivalry with a traditional powerhouse. The Big Ten believes that ND prefers independence, but realizes that it will soon have no choice but to join a conference. The Big Ten also believes that ND is trying to position itself so that if it must join a conference, it does so on the most favorable terms possible. Hence the return to the 8 game schedule and a protected game with national power Texas. The Big Ten will attempt to create a mutually beneficial environment for ND that allows it to preserve a great deal of independence to retain all its traditional rivalries within the conference context.

The initial mood at the Big Ten to the terms provided by the two schools is "receptive." This post was edited on 9/8 2:20 AM by PURPLE Book Cat

[Ksyrup]

I wonder if this, on the heels of The Decision and the Craig James/Bruce Feldman debacle, is going to be the tipping point for ESPN. They are just too big for their own good, and it compromises everything they touch now. They can no longer report anything, it's all just showing highlights/analysis and live sporting events.

[cartman]

I'm gonna laugh my ass off when it is revealed that TTRaider is actually a troll account of Chip Brown.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Purple Cat's info seems to match up with what's being spread this morning. Sounds like Texas isn't all that much of a consideration in the Pac-XX. They're considering the Big 10 or a mutually beneficial relationship with Notre Dame as an independent.

This would also flow well into the rumors that OU is ready to go to the Pac-XX and bring along OSU along with two of either MU, KU, or TT.

As with everything, I'm sure it will change every few hours. Regardless, it's a good thing that most of the country is talking about the Texas/ESPN situation and how it's being used. It's likely going to mean much greater scrutiny of the LHN moves going forward, which is a good thing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

ESPN has, for self-serving purposes ... blah blah blah

Everybody else in this whole mess seems to be looking out for themselves, but ESPN is supposed to be held to some sort of higher standard?

That's just f'n silly.

[Ksyrup]

They should be held to a higher standard because they aren't just negotiating for something that fattens their bottom line, they are "reporting" the news and providing analylsis in a way that benefits them. THey are generating the news/rumors, not simply reporting the news that is happening. If they aren't upfront about that, then yes, they should be held to a higher standard. Heck, that's not just a "higher" standard, but any standard at all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

They should be held to a higher standard because they aren't just negotiating for something that fattens their bottom line, they are "reporting" the news and providing analylsis in a way that benefits them. THey are generating the news/rumors, not simply reporting the news that is happening. If they aren't upfront about that, then yes, they should be held to a higher standard. Heck, that's not just a "higher" standard, but any standard at all.

Bullshit. They're providing entertainment for the easily amused, which is what they're paid to do. And they're looking after their own best interests, same as every other greedy bastard in this particular game.

It's to the point that I'm honestly amazed that anyone doesn't understand that virtually all news has a slant and that's the oldest journalistic tradition in the U.S. by far.