The Trump Presidency – 2016

[albionmoonlight]

Trump Asks Entire Senate To Clear Out Of Chamber So He Can Speak To Comey Alone

[Logan]

I hovered over the link just to be sure.

[molson]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Trump Asks Entire Senate To Clear Out Of Chamber So He Can Speak To Comey Alone

Had to click just to make sure it was the Onion because really I just can't tell anymore.

Edit: Beaten to the punch by Logan.

[ISiddiqui]

Anyway, here is the damning quite by Comey about Sessions:

Our judgment, as I recall, is that he was very close to and inevitably going to recuse himself for a variety of reasons. We also were aware of facts that I can't discuss in an open setting that would make his continued engagement in a Russia-related investigation problematic. So we were convinced — in fact, I think we'd already heard that the career people were recommending that he recuse himself, that he was not going to be in contact with Russia-related matters much longer.

[mckerney]

MSNBC reporting White House sources says Trump "may not have known" the US has troops based in Qatar.

— Simon Marks (@SimonMarksFSN) June 8, 2017

So it turns out that maybe being "really, really smart" isn't a good substitute for intelligence briefings.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Ragone

Did Mccain have a stroke on national television? or some heavy burtations?

Apparently he was up past his bedtime watching baseball.

[RainMaker]

Interesting hearing. Comes down to whether you believe a guy under oath or a pathological liar.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Interesting hearing. Comes down to whether you believe a guy under oath or a pathological liar.

It's not lying. He's just a non-PC, shoot from the cuff, regular ole red-blooded 'Murican male.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Apparently he was up past his bedtime watching baseball.

Just in case anyone else, like me, thought this was a joke...

STATEMENT BY SENATOR JOHN McCAIN ON SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE HEARING QUESTIONS - Press Releases - United States Senator John McCain

I get the sense from Twitter that my line of questioning today went over people’s heads. Maybe going forward I shouldn’t stay up late watching the Diamondbacks night games.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Ragone

Did Mccain have a stroke on national television? or some heavy burtations?

Awesome callback.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Apparently he was up past his bedtime watching baseball.

I suppose at least it's better than claiming he ate a big bowl of chili before the hearing.

[SirFozzie]

One of my friends has started calling this debacle The Trump Presi-dumb-cy.. I can understand why. :/

[Drake]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

It's not lying. He's just a non-PC, shoot from the cuff, regular ole red-blooded 'Murican male.

I caught Limbaugh spinning this argument today...and all I could think was that he's arguing that this guy is incapable of rising to the level of professional communication expected in his job and as part of his professional duties.

In my line of work, we call that incompetence.

Limbaugh's best defense was attempting to turn incompetence into a virtue. It would have sounded more convincing if he'd done it in a Jimmy Stewart drawl.

(I get what he's trying to do. It's another attempt to get people to accept the billionaire as just another regular joe just like "us". All those politicians and lawyers with their high-falutin' words and insider lingo are part of the problem. They're the folks rigging the system against us normal folk, and he's going to bust up that system. I get it. I can't believe that so many people would fall for the dumbass idea that a Manhattan socialite billionaire is just one of "us" instead of one of "them", but that does appear to be the current state of America. Snake oil futures are going through the roof.)

[RainMaker]

Just another regular Joe with a Manhattan penthouse and furniture made of gold.

I'll give them credit for turning an East Coast limousine liberal into the hero of the rural working man. They found some good marks.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I get that the GOP congress isn't going to see this as big news, but when the President repeatedly asks the FBI director to drop an investigation into his administration and then fires the FBI director because he wouldn't drop it, should shock us. That's as clear as can be that the admin is putting itself above the law.

Now, don't mistake this as an angle. It's not. I'm genuinely unsure.
Does the POTUS have the constitutional legal authority to direct the FBI director to end an investigation, and if so , would failing to do so amount to insubordination.

The more I read on this I'm coming down on the side of Trump is a sleeve ball, unethical tactician, but completely legally in bounds.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Now, don't mistake this as an angle. It's not. I'm genuinely unsure.
Does the POTUS have the constitutional legal authority to direct the FBI director to end an investigation, and if so , would failing to do so amount to insubordination.

The more I read on this I'm coming down on the side of Trump is a sleeve ball, unethical tactician, but completely legally in bounds.

Certainly firing the FBI director isn't criminal in and of itself, and obstruction is a high bar. I'm willing to accept that there isn't a criminal case regarding Comey.

But, it isn't right and the rule of law can't survive if we don't enforce some norms on the President. I don't expect the GOP to impeach yet, but they damn well could at least muster some outrage so as to let Trump know that there are some limits on his authority. As long as they keep defending him, he'll continue to be an habitual line stepper.

[cartman]

Considering when Nixon tried to end an investigation by having the person fired, he resigned two weeks later.

Saturday Night Massacre - Wikipedia

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Now, don't mistake this as an angle. It's not. I'm genuinely unsure.
Does the POTUS have the constitutional legal authority to direct the FBI director to end an investigation, and if so , would failing to do so amount to insubordination.

The more I read on this I'm coming down on the side of Trump is a sleeve ball, unethical tactician, but completely legally in bounds.

I've seen different viewpoints from different lawyers. It seems like a gray area. Trump has the power to dictate what the FBI does and doesn't investigate. But if it gets into covering up a crime he would be doing something illegal. So I guess the question would be whether his conversations with Comey was to better utilize the FBI resources or if it was to cover up a crime.

The issue Nixon ran into was he instructed people to lie which was obstruction of justice.

Regardless of any of this, Trump can just pardon Flynn and only Congress has the power to enforce any laws on the President.

[RainMaker]

One thing I'm wondering is if the Flynn stuff had not come out, would the sanctions on Russia be removed by now? All the investigation stuff aside, it seems that the biggest thing to come out of this is it making it tough politically to remove those sanctions.

Also this was an interesting note that was overlooked. Why are so many people meeting with Russia and lying about it?

Comey told senators about possible third Sessions-Russia meeting: report | TheHill

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Now, don't mistake this as an angle. It's not. I'm genuinely unsure.
Does the POTUS have the constitutional legal authority to direct the FBI director to end an investigation, and if so , would failing to do so amount to insubordination.

The more I read on this I'm coming down on the side of Trump is a sleeve ball, unethical tactician, but completely legally in bounds.

Lawful acts can still bring obstruction of justice charges if the motive is corrupt.

[Ben E Lou]

Despite so many false statements and lies, total and complete vindication...and WOW, Comey is a leaker!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 9, 2017

[Toddzilla]

Read this thread from David Simon, creator of FOFC ATF The Wire. It's fascinating

David Simon Thread on the Comey/Trump thing

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Read this thread from David Simon, creator of FOFC ATF The Wire. It's fascinating

David Simon Thread on the Comey/Trump thing

Here's the thing, and it's mentioned in one of the responses:

"David is saying the fact that Trump showed ZERO curiosity in the investigation into Russia reveals that Trump knows exactly what happened."

For a normal person with some level of intellectual curiosity, I'd agree with him, but we're talking about Donald Trump. I think it's fully possible is that all he cares about is that "I won. LOOK AT THE MAP." I have a hard time imagining that he cares about Russian interference into our elections. It's fully possible that he didn't ask not because he knows, but simply because he doesn't give a damn.

[larrymcg421]

Trump still hasn't figured out that "liar" and "leaker" are contradicting accusations.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Trump still hasn't figured out that "liar" and "leaker" are contradicting accusations.

It isn't that he hasn't figured it out. It's that he does not care. And he knows that his base does not either. Just keep saying bad things about your opponents louder than they say bad things about you.

It's worked well for him so far.

[bronconick]

Trump claims he's 100% willing to testify under oath.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Trump claims he's 100% willing to testify under oath.

Which is pointless. In his head, making a statement IS telling the truth regardless of what is said in a statement.

Under oath = demanding a truthful statement does not mean anything in his mind.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Trump still hasn't figured out that "liar" and "leaker" are contradicting accusations.

They arent mutually exclusive thoughts.
Even if (probably should read Even though?) Trump lied, if Comey intentionally leaked info to a 3rd party to get it out it is still a leak.

2 wrongs dont make a right and such?

But who am I kidding...burn him at the stake. Rip his fawking head off.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

They arent mutually exclusive thoughts.
Even if (probably should read Even though?) Trump lied, if Comey intentionally leaked info to a 3rd party to get it out it is still a leak.

2 wrongs dont make a right and such?

But who am I kidding...burn him at the stake. Rip his fawking head off.

Yeah you didn't get what I was saying at all. I wasn't talking about Trump himself lying. Trump is calling Comey both a liar and a leaker. If he's lying about something, then it's not a leak. If he's guilty of leaking, then it's not a lie.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Yeah you didn't get what I was saying at all. I wasn't talking about Trump himself lying. Trump is calling Comey both a liar and a leaker. If he's lying about something, then it's not a leak. If he's guilty of leaking, then it's not a lie.

Ummmm...your argument assumes that Trump's statements need to have logical consistency. In TrumpWorld, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the only truthful thing Comey said is that he's a leaker, and everything else he said was a lie.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Trump is calling Comey both a liar and a leaker. If he's lying about something, then it's not a leak. If he's guilty of leaking, then it's not a lie.

Are we implementing handwavium here to dismiss the possibility that Trump was calling him a liar on some subjects and a leaker on others?

I trust Comey about 8 bajillion times more than Trump, who I wouldn't believe if he told me the sun is warm. But I also take a dim view of the leak and think it really undermines his credibility. And while I'm on the subject, Rubio was an absolute joke as well, even beyond McCain IMO. Nothing wrong with the president asking the FBI Director for loyalty? GTFO.

[digamma]

I agree there's a world where you could present a nuanced argument that Comey lied about some things but was a truthful leaker about others. I don't think our Predisent is all that into nuance.

Rubio went from Little Marco to, Here, Marco, here boy, good boy!

[cuervo72]

I must need to catch up...what was the actual leak again? Comey relaying a conversation he had with the president, after he was already fired? Are all conversations with a president considered privileged information?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Are we implementing handwavium here to dismiss the possibility that Trump was calling him a liar on some subjects and a leaker on others?

I don't dismiss the possibility, but I don't give him that much credit since this isn't the first time he's used this contradicting argument and I think it's more likely he's just throwing multiple things at the wall that don't fit together. From an optics standpoint, the "liar" attacks are a much better way to go than the "leaker" attacks.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

what was the actual leak again? Comey relaying a conversation he had with the president, after he was already fired? Are all conversations with a president considered privileged information?

It's not about whether it's priviledged(at least, not to me). Comey had every right to release the information, but when you're a deposed FBI Director(who is before Congress testifying about all this precisely because of that role) you either put the information out directly or you keep your mouth shut. You don't put it out through a third party to manipulate things, which is his own justification for it.

[Toddzilla]

If you tell someone about a conversation you yourself had, that's not a leak, that's just talking.

[Brian Swartz]

Ok. If I call it a cowardly, underhanded, and manipulative release, is that better than calling it a leak? I agree it's not the right word to use, but I think my point stands.

[Ben E Lou]

I don't get the impression that he merely told someone about a conversation he had. I'd have to re-watch the testimony to be certain, but my recollection is that he gave the information to his friend specifically for him to leak it. And to be clear, as long as it's legal (and I'll hazard a guess that Comey knew he was on solid legal ground there,) I have *no* problem with someone putting out information through a third party to manipulate things. That's just politics. Once Comey was fired, he was no longer bound to be a-political.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

It's not about whether it's priviledged(at least, not to me). Comey had every right to release the information, but when you're a deposed FBI Director(who is before Congress testifying about all this precisely because of that role) you either put the information out directly or you keep your mouth shut. You don't put it out through a third party to manipulate things, which is his own justification for it.

You do whatever you want. He's a private citizen who was being trashed by people. He has every right to tell who he wants what he wants.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I don't get the impression that he merely told someone about a conversation he had. I'd have to re-watch the testimony to be certain, but my recollection is that he gave the information to his friend specifically for him to leak it.

I guess it's the connotation of "leak."

"Comey Investigation: He Had Friend Leak Memos to Media | Time.com"

They were his memos. Where else would people think they were coming from? I mean, how is that all that different from having a press secretary, PR firm, or lawyer release a statement?

[mckerney]

Donald Trump's state visit to Britain put on hold | US news | The Guardian

Donald Trump has told Theresa May in a phone call he does not want to go ahead with a state visit to Britain until the British public supports him coming.

The US president said he did not want to come if there were large-scale protests and his remarks in effect put the visit on hold for some time.

What a little snowflake.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Donald Trump's state visit to Britain put on hold | US news | The Guardian



What a little snowflake.

If only it was that easy to get him to resign

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Donald Trump's state visit to Britain put on hold | US news | The Guardian



What a little snowflake.

Maybe he'll just go to Saudi Arabia over and over where protesting is illegal.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Donald Trump's state visit to Britain put on hold | US news | The Guardian



What a little snowflake.

Then again:

Donald Trump: 'No change' to UK state visit plans, says No 10 - BBC News

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Donald Trump's state visit to Britain put on hold | US news | The Guardian



What a little snowflake.

Trump's approval rating is less than 40%. Maybe he'll stay away from America until Americans support him.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Maybe he'll just go to Saudi Arabia over and over where protesting is illegal.

Yeah, protesters can be beheaded and literally crucified. Sounds like a great country to have on the UN Human Rights Council!

[JPhillips]

Trump today:

Never has there been a president....with few exceptions...whose passed more legislation, whose done more things that I have

By next week 70% of conservatives will say this is true.

[Kodos]

Has there been anything that passed both houses and got signed by Trump yet?

[JPhillips]

They renamed a post office in Tennessee.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Yeah, protesters can be beheaded and literally crucified.

Given some of the crap I've seen, they may be onto something here frankly.