The Trump Presidency – 2016

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That's most libertarians. Talk a big game but never back it up in the real world. Look what Rand Paul has been up to the past couple months.

Hes not a Libertarian, hes a Republican. Didnt realize there were all kinds of elected Libertarians who weren't backing up their ideologies in Congress.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Tulsi, among her numerous problems, is more than willing to defend Assad from chemical warfare charges. You can be against the forever war without siding with a man slaughtering his civilian population.

We have a different memory of Johnson in 2016. If the bar is support, sure not many here did, but I think there wa a lot of acknowledgement that Johnson was sincere and honest in his beliefs. But now... not so much.

So what is his end game if he isnt being sincere? Hes a Russian sympathizer? He secretly wants Trump reelected?

[JPhillips]

He's seems like a lot of libertarians, mostly concerned about legal pot.

edit: But really, how the fuck do I know? All I now is you can't both support libertarian policies and Tulsi's platform.

[JPhillips]

dola

The Philippines sent notice that they are ending the Visiting Forces Agreement.

So much winning.

[Edward64]

Gallup's Mood of the Nation survey. Looking pretty good for Trump in the question "are you better off today than before". Independents is one of the major battlegrounds so this should be worrisome to the Dems.

The article has a link to more details. At the bottom of the linked survey, there is a breakdown between white/non-white and age groups.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/284264/...-finances.aspx

The current 59% of Americans who say they are better off financially than they were a year ago is essentially tied for the all-time high of 58% in January 1999. That was recorded during the dot-com boom, with conditions similar to the current state of the economy -- a stock market rocketing to then-record highs and unemployment at multidecade lows -- though GDP growth was higher at that time.

From 1998 to 2000, at least half of Americans rated their financial situation better than that of a year ago. However, in most surveys from 2001 to 2018, the percentage saying their personal finances were better off than the previous year was under 50% -- with a low of 23% in May 2009, during the Great Recession.

In addition to U.S. adults' highly positive report on their current financial situation, Americans are also expressing peak optimism about their future personal financial situation. About three in four U.S. adults (74%) predict they will be better off financially a year from now, the highest in Gallup's trend since 1977.

Since Gallup began asking this question in 1977, Americans have consistently been more optimistic than pessimistic about where their personal financial situation is headed, with more saying their finances will be better in a year than they are now. The previous record high, 71%, was seen in 1998 during the dot-com boom.

Given today's highly politically polarized environment, it is perhaps not surprising that Republicans and Democrats see their personal finances differently. There is a 33-percentage-point gap between Republicans' (76%) and Democrats' (43%) reports of being financially better off today than they were a year ago.

There is also a partisan gap when it comes to optimism about one's future finances, though it is smaller than the difference seen in attitudes toward current conditions. Among Republicans, 83% say their personal financial situation will be better in a year, compared with 60% of Democrats.

Independents fall in between on both measures, with 58% saying they are better off now than a year ago and 76% reporting they will be better off next year.

[PilotMan]

Once again, he's basically benefiting from a 10 year long run in the economy and market. He's done nothing substantially more than pour a bunch of jet fuel in an engine and kept driving straight. You can see it in the trend line. If I was a market analyst and used this, I could see that the last time that things "got this good" a hard market fall happened.



That is actually what I'm fearful of. The economy is due for a decline. And that just so happens to coincide with whatever happens in the fall. There's a strong chance that trump is gone, and with that, the next person will not have the same advantage of a steadily growing economy. Which leads to trump just spending the next 4 years tweeting how all this is just because he wasn't elected, then he runs again in '24. Setting us up for another fml moment. Or he could die. Today.

[Lathum]

Trump tweeted a clip from 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' that shows Larry David in a MAGA hat, seemingly not realizing it's an insult - AOL News

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Once again, he's basically benefiting from a 10 year long run in the economy and market. He's done nothing substantially more than pour a bunch of jet fuel in an engine and kept driving straight. You can see it in the trend line. If I was a market analyst and used this, I could see that the last time that things "got this good" a hard market fall happened.



That is actually what I'm fearful of. The economy is due for a decline. And that just so happens to coincide with whatever happens in the fall. There's a strong chance that trump is gone, and with that, the next person will not have the same advantage of a steadily growing economy. Which leads to trump just spending the next 4 years tweeting how all this is just because he wasn't elected, then he runs again in '24. Setting us up for another fml moment. Or he could die. Today.

I'm kinda hoping the stock market plummets before the election. Whatever it takes to get him out of office.

[JPhillips]

DoJ central is going to overrule the prosecutor on the Roger Stone case and lessen the recommended sentence. Details of the new rec are set to be released this afternoon.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Trump tweeted a clip from 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' that shows Larry David in a MAGA hat, seemingly not realizing it's an insult - AOL News

Loving this season of Curb.

Larry figured out that a MAGA hat was a great way to make sure nobody would sit next to him at the sushi bar, and to get out of social engagements.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I'm kinda hoping the stock market plummets before the election. Whatever it takes to get him out of office.

This to me is as bad or worse than JiMGa's "enemies" nonsense. What an asinine thing to hope for.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

DoJ central is going to overrule the prosecutor on the Roger Stone case and lessen the recommended sentence. Details of the new rec are set to be released this afternoon.

The judge is likely going to ignore the revised sentencing recommendation which sets Trump up to justify the eventual pardon.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

Hes not a Libertarian, hes a Republican. Didnt realize there were all kinds of elected Libertarians who weren't backing up their ideologies in Congress.

He says he is.


‘I’m very serious about running,’ Ron Paul’s son says – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Like his father, the son also favors notions of limited government. "Libertarian would be a good description," Rand Paul told CNN, "because libertarians believe in freedom in all aspects of your life – your economic life as well as your social life as well as your personal life."

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

DoJ central is going to overrule the prosecutor on the Roger Stone case and lessen the recommended sentence. Details of the new rec are set to be released this afternoon.

Party of law and order!

He'll be getting a pardon right after the election. Likely will have to spend a little time in prison but it likely only helps his street cred in the cult.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by panerd

This to me is as bad or worse than JiMGa's "enemies" nonsense. What an asinine thing to hope for.

I figure we're overdue for a big drop. It's been a long expansion, propped up by the Fed with quantitative easing and artificially low interest rates (which Trump keeps hammering Powell to lower further). Better for it to happen under Trump's watch than leave the next guy holding the bag when it all blows up. The markets will recover. The environment may not if Trump gets his way.

[JPhillips]

So far two prosecutors on the Stone case have resigned today.

[PilotMan]

Pretty sure, the extreme, obvious levels of cronyism that we've seen would've been impeachable under anyone else, especially a D. Most leaders go out of their way to avoid even the appearance of it as a possibility, he just desensitizes us so when it happens it's expected. That's fucking dangerous and it's fucking bullshit.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by panerd

This to me is as bad or worse than JiMGa's "enemies" nonsense. What an asinine thing to hope for.

I agree.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I figure we're overdue for a big drop. It's been a long expansion, propped up by the Fed with quantitative easing and artificially low interest rates (which Trump keeps hammering Powell to lower further). Better for it to happen under Trump's watch than leave the next guy holding the bag when it all blows up. The markets will recover. The environment may not if Trump gets his way.

I agree with you that a recession is overdue and if one was to happen then ideally it would happen in time to blunt Trump.

I would be with you for a recession last year but don't think it will help much this year if/when it happens. Trump could arguably blame any recession on China/coronavirus impact, the market/economy was anticipating a Democrat win etc.

I don't know why there is not more support for this by the "never Trump'ers" on this board. The market/economy is a key strengths that will resonate well with the independent swing voters.

A hypothetical question I would pose to the die-hard Libs on this board:

If it was a King Solomon's choice between (1) have a typical 11 month recession that guarantees a Democrat will win or (2) no recession that guarantees Trump will be re-elected ... which would you choose?

[PilotMan]

1, all day and twice on Sunday. Economies rebound.

[Kodos]

1. Easy choice.

[Lathum]

1. The economy will come back and I can live off less if need be. 4 more years of Trump, who can now do what he wants with zero checks and balances, will destroy us as a nation. If he hasn't already.

[Edward64]

Kinda funny ... what are the odds?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/11/trum...nies-maga.html

President Donald Trump gave a shout out to a group of four big tech giants that have market caps larger than $1 trillion, calling them MAGA.

Trump said four tech giants Microsoft, Apple, Google, and Amazon.com are part of a trillion dollar club — MAGA. The term originated as Trump’s campaign slogan — Make America Great Again — and is widely used by the president and his supporters.

[PilotMan]

Ahh branding....


Nobody else is concerned about the whole Roger Stone/ Justice department/ do whatever trump says bullshit that it appears is going on today?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Ahh branding....


Nobody else is concerned about the whole Roger Stone/ Justice department/ do whatever trump says bullshit that it appears is going on today?

Extremely. Even if democrats can win in November, there's still almost a whole year left of our democracy being eroded away.

[thesloppy]

It's amazing how corrupt, incompetent politics sustains itself with very little effort. Like the news of exasperated DOJ lawyers resigning en masse.

I'd like to believe that the more corrupt & inept an administration the harder it would be for them to operate in the American political & legislative environment, and some group of competent heroes would step up in oversight, but instead all the competent folks simply leave on their own regard in frustration.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

It's amazing how corrupt, incompetent politics sustains itself with very little effort. Like the news of exasperated DOJ lawyers resigning en masse.

I'd like to believe that the more corrupt & inept an administration the harder it would be for them to operate in the American political & legislative environment, and some group of competent heroes would step up in oversight, but instead all the competent folks simply leave on their own regard in frustration.

Our political system isn't built to protect us from a corrupt President and Senate. There's very little that can be done other than vote in November.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Radii

Extremely. Even if democrats can win in November, there's still almost a whole year left of our democracy being eroded away.

What is there to erode away? Don't get me wrong, Trump is a piece of shit. But he's not doing anything that hasn't been done to this country since its inception.

There was never a democracy in this country. Neither party has ever supported it no matter how many times we get on our soapbox and proclaim it to the world. Rich, white folks with good connections don't have to follow the law. They've always been above it. How do you erode things that were never there?

Trump just turns the lights on what this country is (a crumbling, corrupt oligarchy). Instead of hiding behind some fancy bullshit and "decorum", he does his deeds in the open (which is what really pisses people off). He's open about how only certain people should be allowed to vote. He's made it clear that certain people should be above the law. If anything, it's refreshing to see the wrapping off the turd.

Does anyone think Mayor Pete is going to change anything? The guy is funded by Wall Street and has a Goldman Sachs guy on his policy team. His team is filled with Obama grifters who got their ass kicked for 8 years. If Pete somehow won, he'd be just another sniveling pussy to the handful of rich folks who call the shots in this country. But he'd do it with class so we could pretend it's not happening.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Our political system isn't built to protect us from a corrupt President and Senate. There's very little that can be done other than vote in November.

Madison stated that the primary goal of government should be to "protect the minority of the opulent against the majority". The country was literally founded on the basis that a handful of rich folks should call all the shots. It wasn't created for the people.

[panerd]

I realize this is an echo chamber for a handful of you guys but it's pretty disgusting the number of people who would "bring on a recession" because Trump is living rent free in their heads. I mean we are talking about something that would effect the entire country. Don't even know what to say but it least it exposes to what lengths some of you would go to "support their team". A team I might add that really doesn't care as much about you as you do about them.

What if I told you a Trump supporter was given the option of a small terror attack (nowhere on the magnitude of 9-11 or even OKC but a few dead and a city's collective psyche shaken to the ground) and they said sure it's probably due anyways and it won't effect me as much as some other people? That would be insane right? That's exactly what you guys sound like with this "small" recession stuff. You think this "small" recession would only eat the rich? Wow...

[panerd]

Follow-up question for those who said yes to the recession. Please list the ways Trump has actually impacted your life that is worse than a recession would impact it.

[Flasch186]

So in answer to that I think it's a question of how far you have to look outside your own bubble. IF I have a really small circle around me and only care about what's happening to me and my family today then I would feel one way BUT if I give a shit about 1, 5, 10, 30 years from now I'd feel different. Couple that with whether or not I feel empathy for people outside my bubble and I really have to allow myself to feel differently Outside of the headline religious bend. Anti-Abortion Rights trumps all, etc.

I personally have seen my bubble get smaller in the last ten years but lets equate it to selfishness without the word's negative connotation but just for discussion sake. The more selfish I am the more I can feel one way or the other about a topic. For example lets say I'm 100% selfish, I could argue that Trump is my guy. If I'm 0% selfish he's the opposite for me. I'm able to feel differently because I'm neither 0 or 100.

The irony of it all is the willingness of people to vote against their self interests for things that I cannot understand. For example, my MIL should be Democrat through and through, low level wages, treated like shit, needs of medicare and social safety nets for being deaf BUT because she's ignorant (again not necessarily negatively) she voted big R because she's like scared of diversity, believes in the Bible tried and true, thinks that g means take away guns, etc WHICH NONE OF THESE THINGS AFFECT HER. So she votes against her self interest because she reads a headline, is vulnerable to the marketing, and MAGA. When you try to explain to her that all of the things that affect her, Trump is against it doesn't carry any weight because it's not in 40 font type on the paper.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by panerd

I realize this is an echo chamber for a handful of you guys but it's pretty disgusting the number of people who would "bring on a recession" because Trump is living rent free in their heads. I mean we are talking about something that would effect the entire country. Don't even know what to say but it least it exposes to what lengths some of you would go to "support their team". A team I might add that really doesn't care as much about you as you do about them.

What if I told you a Trump supporter was given the option of a small terror attack (nowhere on the magnitude of 9-11 or even OKC but a few dead and a city's collective psyche shaken to the ground) and they said sure it's probably due anyways and it won't effect me as much as some other people? That would be insane right? That's exactly what you guys sound like with this "small" recession stuff. You think this "small" recession would only eat the rich? Wow...

Nobody dies due to a recession. A "strong economy" is one of Trump's main legs to stand on for his own re-election. (I would argue that the markets are being manipulated for the political gain of Trump and those in power.) I am willing to take an economic hit to sweep that leg out from under him. Recessions are cyclical. Terrorism is not. Totally different scenario. It can easily be argued that KEEPING Trump in office is triggering small terrorist attacks all the time. His rhetoric stokes anger and fear that results in wackos going out and shooting things up on a semi-regular basis.

Originally Posted by panerd

Follow-up question for those who said yes to the recession. Please list the ways Trump has actually impacted your life that is worse than a recession would impact it.

1. He is deregulating environmental protections that lower the quality of the air we all breathe and the water we all drink. He is doing irreparable harm to the environment every day.

2. He and Republicans stand in the way of sensible gun regulation. People, including kids, die every day because of this.

3. He very nearly just pulled us into a war with Iran that would result in countless deaths.

4. He is stoking division in our country with his words and his actions every day. He is pitting us against each other for his own personal gain.

5. He is trying to kill Obamacare in the courts. He is working to get rid of protections for millions of people with pre-existing conditions.

6. He is running up the federal deficit at a record pace during a time of economic expansion. That's when you are supposed to be shrinking the deficit and increasing interest rates. When recession does come, we are not going to have much ammo to fight against it.

I could go on.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

So in answer to that I think it's a question of how far you have to look outside your own bubble. IF I have a really small circle around me and only care about what's happening to me and my family today then I would feel one way BUT if I give a shit about 1, 5, 10, 30 years from now I'd feel different. Couple that with whether or not I feel empathy for people outside my bubble and I really have to allow myself to feel differently Outside of the headline religious bend. Anti-Abortion Rights trumps all, etc.

I personally have seen my bubble get smaller in the last ten years but lets equate it to selfishness without the word's negative connotation but just for discussion sake. The more selfish I am the more I can feel one way or the other about a topic. For example lets say I'm 100% selfish, I could argue that Trump is my guy. If I'm 0% selfish he's the opposite for me. I'm able to feel differently because I'm neither 0 or 100.

The irony of it all is the willingness of people to vote against their self interests for things that I cannot understand. For example, my MIL should be Democrat through and through, low level wages, treated like shit, needs of medicare and social safety nets for being deaf BUT because she's ignorant (again not necessarily negatively) she voted big R because she's like scared of diversity, believes in the Bible tried and true, thinks that g means take away guns, etc WHICH NONE OF THESE THINGS AFFECT HER. So she votes against her self interest because she reads a headline, is vulnerable to the marketing, and MAGA. When you try to explain to her that all of the things that affect her, Trump is against it doesn't carry any weight because it's not in 40 font type on the paper.

So wishing a recession on the country for personal political beliefs not selfish? Wouldn't effect almost everyone in the country?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Nobody dies due to a recession. A "strong economy" is one of Trump's main legs to stand on for his own re-election. (I would argue that the markets are being manipulated for the political gain of Trump and those in power.) I am willing to take an economic hit to sweep that leg out from under him. Recessions are cyclical. Terrorism is not. Totally different scenario. It can easily be argued that KEEPING Trump in office is triggering small terrorist attacks all the time. His rhetoric stokes anger and fear that results in wackos going out and shooting things up on a semi-regular basis.



1. He is deregulating environmental protections that lower the quality of the air we all breathe and the water we all drink. He is doing irreparable harm to the environment every day.

2. He and Republicans stand in the way of sensible gun regulation. People, including kids, die every day because of this.

3. He very nearly just pulled us into a war with Iran that would result in countless deaths.

4. He is stoking division in our country with his words and his actions every day. He is pitting us against each other for his own personal gain.

5. He is trying to kill Obamacare in the courts. He is working to get rid of protections for millions of people with pre-existing conditions.

6. He is running up the federal deficit at a record pace during a time of economic expansion. That's when you are supposed to be shrinking the deficit and increasing interest rates. When recession does come, we are not going to have much ammo to fight against it.

I could go on.

He sucks as a president, you will get no argument from me. So I won't argue with 4. I think you are giving him waaayyy too much credit for #1. #2,3, and 6 are standard operating procedure for every president and Congress in DC. Sorry I even have to LOL if you think a Bernie Sanders presidency during a recession is going to fix #6.

Still am just dumbfounded that people think a recession isn't going to screw the whole country (especially the poor and middle class) and would invite this because they think it somehow will help "their side" win. I realize Edward's question was worded that the recession would somehow cause a Democrat to get elected but what if it didn't? Now you have a recession and Trump as president. Hate to enact Goodwin's law here but...

And as far as nobody dies due to a recession? You want to equate gun control with dead kids but think a recession won't effect suicide rates, people going into poverty, crime rates...

[cartman]

Originally Posted by panerd

So wishing a recession on the country for personal political beliefs not selfish? Wouldn't effect almost everyone in the country?

They were answering the question as posed by Edward64.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by cartman

They were answering the question as posed by Edward64.

Kodos wasn't.

And the whole premise of his question is whether you would want a recession if it could guarantee Trump isn't reelected. So it is all about personal gain at the expense of anyone with money invested or jobs dependent on the economy. (i.e. basically everyone)

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by panerd

Sorry I even have to LOL if you think a Bernie Sanders presidency during a recession is going to fix #6.

Who says I support Bernie Sanders?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Who says I support Bernie Sanders?

Didn't say you did but he is the leading Democratic candidate who in this theoretical exercise would be running against Trump. Or is your hope for a recession, no Trump, and your choice of Democrat?

[Kodos]

I will support whoever wins the nomination. Personally, I am hoping for a young moderate (Pete or Amy). But if Bernie wins, I'll vote for him.

The longer we artificially hold off a market correction, the worse it will be when we finally get one.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by panerd

I realize this is an echo chamber for a handful of you guys but it's pretty disgusting the number of people who would "bring on a recession" because Trump is living rent free in their heads. I mean we are talking about something that would effect the entire country. Don't even know what to say but it least it exposes to what lengths some of you would go to "support their team". A team I might add that really doesn't care as much about you as you do about them.

What if I told you a Trump supporter was given the option of a small terror attack (nowhere on the magnitude of 9-11 or even OKC but a few dead and a city's collective psyche shaken to the ground) and they said sure it's probably due anyways and it won't effect me as much as some other people? That would be insane right? That's exactly what you guys sound like with this "small" recession stuff. You think this "small" recession would only eat the rich? Wow...

You mean like Trump supporters being OK with farmers losing their farms and committing suicide for the greater good of a China deal?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Atocep

You mean like Trump supporters being OK with farmers losing their farms and committing suicide for the greater good of a China deal?

Yes. (I know Larrymcg I am a broken record...) If I choose not to play the D/R game and say "But... but... they do it" then I don't have to get caught in what you think is a gotcha moment. I don't support anyone who wishes harm to get "their guy" elected and sure as hell don't wish for a recession because it might change the election odds from 53/47 to 51/49.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by panerd

And as far as nobody dies due to a recession? You want to equate gun control with dead kids but think a recession won't effect suicide rates, people going into poverty, crime rates...

So you're okay with kids being shot but not okay with less money in your wallet?



See how easy it is to play your little game?

[PilotMan]

You do realize that recessions are always going to happen, right? The car that already had all the emergency fuel dumped in it will run out. People are gonna be hurt one way or another. It's not about wishing pain on the world so one guy loses or wins. Which coincidentally is the argument trump uses. He says only I can fix it, or solve it, or help. Regardless of the damage he causes in the process. He wants to be there longer, has supporters talking about keeping him longer, encourages people to support his kids in their future runs after him to keep it in the family. I mean, if there's one group out there with a single minded, selfish, me first approach, the recession isn't it.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Kodos

So you're okay with kids being shot but not okay with less money in your wallet?



See how easy it is to play your little game?

There's no game. You wished for a recession, actually wished for it before Edward's hypothetical. I think that point of view is absurd.

[ISiddiqui]

I mean if you've studied economics at all, you'd know that recessions are part of the normal business cycle. Hell, they are even called 'corrections' in some economic circles. I don't see anything wrong with wanting the upcoming recession to happen at an advantageous time and be small.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I mean if you've studied economics at all, you'd know that recessions are part of the normal business cycle. Hell, they are even called 'corrections' in some economic circles. I don't see anything wrong with wanting the upcoming recession to happen at an advantageous time and be small.

Good lord this board is stupid. Advantageous time for a recession for political purposes? You guys really do stick together with even the dumbest ideas I will give you that.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by panerd

There's no game. You wished for a recession, actually wished for it before Edward's hypothetical. I think that point of view is absurd.

I can live with that.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by panerd

Good lord this board is stupid. Advantageous time for a recession for political purposes? You guys really do stick together with even the dumbest ideas I will give you that.

Not everyone is as bright or altruistic as you. You win.

[ISiddiqui]

Hell, I just have a degree in economics, but what do I know?