The official NCAA tournament thread

[britrock88]

VCU won 5 games to get to the Final Four 4 years ago.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Strength of Schedule

Dayton 113
Boise 130
BYU 75
Ole Miss 49
-----------
UCLA 29
Texas 15
Georgia 33
Ohio State 74

Notice any trend there?

edit to add: Looking at the SOS ratings, I'm a little surprised that Richmond wasn't in tbh.
Looks a bit like RPI got some teams in and SOS influenced the seeding afterwards

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Well then I guess the tournament should be cut to 8-10 teams.

And you said not going anywhere, VCU made a final 4 a few years ago. Worked out pretty well for them.

The point of the tournament is to win the championship. A travesty would be if a team can win the national title but is on the bubble to even get into the tourney. Since no #12 or #11 seed has won the championship, we can figure that arguing their merits in or out is a relatively pointless exercise, wouldn't you say?

This is why the BCS was ridiculous. The third team in most years was plenty capable of winning the championship, and frankly the fifth team is, too, which is why, eventually, the playoff field for football will be expanded. But it is better to argue between the fourth-fifth team than the second-third, and better the eighth-ninth than the fourth-fifth. And of course better to be arguing over the 68th and 69 team. The point is to make the point of exclusion past the point where we can realistically expect all teams capable of winning it all to be included. Once we reach that point, any discussion of the teams on the border is pretty much pointless.

Dropping it to 8-10 teams is, of course, ridiculous and I know you only say that to goad me. There are teams outside of the top 8-10 that can win it and have won it.

And your example is just the exception that proves the rule. Every year, there are four #11 and #12 seeds, going way back to when the field was expanded in the early 80s. Eight teams per year, 30 years, 240 total teams. Only one team in all that time even made it to the Final Four.

[Young Drachma]

I'm always fine with teams on the NCAA bubble getting snubbed because we're talking the 69th and 70th plus teams in the country. Football is more egregious because of all of the useless games that get played that could be replaced for playoff games. But for college basketball, they obviously have a major conference preference but it's better than it was and it's better than it could be, even if it's lame.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The point of the tournament is to win the championship.

I would argue this point with you. The point of the tournament for UCLA, or Kentucky, or most other top 25 teams is to win the tournament. However, the great thing about the tournament is that it accomplishes so many other things. For some schools/kids, just getting to play that 1 game in the tournament is a dream come true. For others, it is making a run to the 2nd weekend. For others, a Final 4 is a major accomplishment. This is why the tournament is so much better than any other playoff.

VCU's run to the Final 4 did amazing things for that program and springboarded them to the group that plays to win it all. If they didn't sneak in and get a chance, nobody who know who Shaka Smart was and their recruiting would not be as good I would argue. You gotta start somewhere! We weren't all born with a John Wooden legacy behind us.

I'm not all upset about the snubs this year. Temple/UCLA is a borderline case. Other years had much worst snubs.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Marmel

I would argue this point with you. The point of the tournament for UCLA, or Kentucky, or most other top 25 teams is to win the tournament. However, the great thing about the tournament is that it accomplishes so many other things. For some schools/kids, just getting to play that 1 game in the tournament is a dream come true. For others, it is making a run to the 2nd weekend. For others, a Final 4 is a major accomplishment. This is why the tournament is so much better than any other playoff.

VCU's run to the Final 4 did amazing things for that program and springboarded them to the group that plays to win it all. If they didn't sneak in and get a chance, nobody who know who Shaka Smart was and their recruiting would not be as good I would argue. You gotta start somewhere! We weren't all born with a John Wooden legacy behind us.

I'm not all upset about the snubs this year. Temple/UCLA is a borderline case. Other years had much worst snubs.

I am not saying it doesn't do other things or that the tournament means the same thing to every program or person involved. I am just stating the simple fact: the tournament is in place to determine a national champion.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Strength of Schedule

Dayton 113
Boise 130
BYU 75
Ole Miss 49
-----------
UCLA 29
Texas 15
Georgia 33
Ohio State 74

Notice any trend there?

edit to add: Looking at the SOS ratings, I'm a little surprised that Richmond wasn't in tbh.
Looks a bit like RPI got some teams in and SOS influenced the seeding afterwards

Just because you play a lot of good teams doesn't mean you are one.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I am not saying it doesn't do other things or that the tournament means the same thing to every program or person involved. I am just stating the simple fact: the tournament is in place to determine a national champion.

But your comments regarding why we ar even discussing these bubble teams minimize their accomplishment of making it in.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

But your comments regarding why we ar even discussing these bubble teams minimize their accomplishment of making it in.

Sorry?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rowech

Just because you play a lot of good teams doesn't mean you are one.

But a good record built against a steady diet of mediocre teams doesn't mean you're good either.

At the risk of repeating myself, 68 teams is too many.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But a good record built against a steady diet of mediocre teams doesn't mean you're good either.

At the risk of repeating myself, 68 teams is too many.

What about a mediocre record built against a steady diet of mediocre teams, with also some good teams thrown in... with you being able to beat the good teams about 1-in-5 tries? .200 against good teams and .900 against everyone else is just fine this year, it seems.

Point is, make some rules and stick to them... because as it is now no one knows from year to year what the committee is going to emphasize. Top-50 wins? Or just games against the top-50? Non-conference strength of schedule? Or just any strength of schedule? Conference results? Or the "eye test"?

[molson]

I think the tournament field has grown pretty proportionally with the growth of the number of teams in division 1. And it's fun to get little windows into the wacky diversity that still exists in college basketball. Like there's always at least one giant fat player, one guy with crazy hair, a coach who dresses terribly. The tournament has it all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

What about a mediocre record built against a steady diet of mediocre teams, with also some good teams thrown in... with you being able to beat the good teams about 1-in-5 tries? .200 against good teams and .900 against everyone else is just fine this year, it seems.

Point is, make some rules and stick to them... because as it is now no one knows from year to year what the committee is going to emphasize. Top-50 wins? Or just games against the top-50? Non-conference strength of schedule? Or just any strength of schedule? Conference results? Or the "eye test"?

The committee is free to consider all of those factors (and numerous others). As they should be afaic. It's part science, it's part art.

Not sure why that's such a difficult concept really.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The committee is free to consider all of those factors (and numerous others). As they should be afaic. It's part science, it's part art.

Not sure why that's such a difficult concept really.

Not sure why it's such a difficult concept for the committee to apply any of these factors consistently and evenly across different years.

[Kodos]

The "eye test" is crap.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I am just stating the simple fact: the tournament is in place to determine a national champion.

Well, not really. The tournament is in place to earn a truckload of money. Awarding the national champion is just the means to get there.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Well, not really. The tournament is in place to earn a truckload of money. Awarding the national champion is just the means to get there.

Good gawd, people. I'm just saying the purpose of the tournament, the literal stated purpose, is to produce a champion. It's not hard to figure this out. I'm not talking about all the other stuff that goes into that.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Good gawd, people. I'm just saying the purpose of the tournament, the literal stated purpose, is to produce a champion. It's not hard to figure this out. I'm not talking about all the other stuff that goes into that.

Do you think are too many teams?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Do you think are too many teams?

To reach the stated purpose of the tournament? Yes, I think that is likely.

But as y'all have pointed out, the tournament does more than its stated goal of producing a champion, with the money it generates and the buzz for the sport and all that. So the greater number of teams is probably better for that goal.

[cartman]

That was a wild BYU-Ole Miss game. Ole Miss was down 17 at one point but mounted a huge second half come back to win. March Madness is here!

[Butter]

Lot of BYU fans there last night. Almost 2 whole lower sections seemed to be BYU people, easily close to 1,000. By far the largest contingent of any of the 4 fan bases.

That said, when you give up 62 points in the second half, you can't expect to win even when you built a 17 point halftime lead. I think BYU was 60% shooting in the first half and Ole Miss was 60% in the second half. Ole Miss took 80 shots... 2 per minute! That's a lot of shots. It was an amazing game to attend.

[Lathum]

My boss who is a Dayton alum and season ticket holder said the cheapest ticket he could find on Stubhub was $100. the place is going to be 99% UD fans, feel pretty bad for Boise.

[Butter]

Ticket prices will fall off a cliff today, as people realize that the game is in like 12 hours or less.

Boise State was 8-5 on the road this year including winning at San Diego State, breaking a long home court winning streak they had. I don't feel too bad for them, as it turns out.

Look for me tonight, I'll be the guy wearing red and standing a lot.

[Kodos]

I hope UD has another good run this year.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by cartman

FOFC Colossal Squid bracket challenge on Yahoo! is set up again. For those who participated last year, you should get an invite.

Group Invitation | Tourney Pick'em | Yahoo Sports
pwd: trout

A little less than 24 hours left to join. The cutoff according to Yahoo! is 12:15pm Eastern tomorrow.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Waydowntown Bangs in

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Waydowntown Bangs in

Great, I now have my new porn name.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I hope UD has another good run this year.

That makes 2 of us!

[Lathum]

Whoa. Big no call at the end. Dayton showed a ton of heart.

[mauchow]

If he made an effort to shoot it sooner I bet it would have been called but by the time he shot it the defender already landed and was stationary... Once he's up, you shoot it right away. Just too slow. Too bad.

Good start to the tourney though w two good games.

[Lathum]

I agree but no one would have faulted the ref had he blew the whistle.

[Butter]

Easily the best home crowd I've ever been in. Holy shit that was fun.

Glad that free throw shooting didn't sink them.

[Thomkal]

Good luck to everyone's school participating in the tourney, especially that 16th seed out of Conway South Carolina.

[cartman]

about 45 minutes left to get your brackets entered.

[Lathum]

Notre Dame in foul trouble early and looking tight

[tarcone]

ND starting to pull away now. Too athletic.

ISU struggling a little early.

[Karlifornia]

Yeah, ND is too much for Northeastern, it looks like. They're going to have to hit some threes and force ND into some turnovers.

[Karlifornia]

Northeastern hanging tough....can they sneak it out?

[Lathum]

Shits getting real. ND always seems to be one of those teams that craps the bed. For whatever reason I thought this was the year they would buck this trend

[cartman]

Northeastern blew their chance right there

[Butter]

Yeah, they went away from the two guys who were doing it all for them, and it cost them.

[Butter]

Iowa State is getting killed on the boards.

[Butter]

2 really good games to open play.

[kingfc22]

Buh bye Iowa St.

[Lathum]

Wow, ISU, wow.

[Coffee Warlord]

Clearly I am a genius for picking UAB.

[Karlifornia]

Into the drink goes the USS Iowa State. I think I picked them for the final four. Shit.

[britrock88]

In my survivor pool, I switched my pick for today from ISU to ND last night.

...phew.

[Butter]

If all the 3-14 games are going to be this good, we're in for a hell of a tournament.

[cartman]

Looks like Turnover Texas showed up today