NFL Playoffs - Conference Round

[cuervo72]

Sorry Thomkal, but congrats Radii.

[tucker rocky]

Carolina scores a TD, with the game in hand, goes for 2pt conversion.
What's the point?

[cthomer5000]

Go for 2 again. Run it up!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ain't no class in Carolina, but then again that ain't exactly breaking news.

[Easy Mac]

6 turnovers for Palmer, wow.

[miami_fan]

So many things I never thought I would see will happen in this Super Bowl. Here is just a few.

Gary Kubiak will be a head coach in a Super Bowl.
Ted Ginn Jr. will be the number one wide receiver for a team in the Super Bowl.
Mike Shula is the offensive mastermind for a team in the Super Bowl.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

6 turnovers for Palmer, wow.

We call that going full Delhomme and you never want to see it happen to anyone.

[sabotai]

Super Bowl will have the two top defenses in yards per play. Denver #1 at 4.4, Carolina #2 at 4.9. Defense still wins championships.

[tucker rocky]

Save some points for the SB Carolina.

[Radii]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.


good game Cards.

[tucker rocky]

On a side note, Arizona and Carolina will meet again in the 2016 regular season, in Carolina.

If Carolina happens to win the SB, will Carolina open the season against Arizona?

[tucker rocky]

Originally Posted by Radii

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.


good game Cards.

https://youtu.be/hA0MTkHLO0g?t=5m44s

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Carolina scores a TD, with the game in hand, goes for 2pt conversion.
What's the point?

They just go off of their two point conversion chart. If it says go they go, if it says kick they kick. Nothing evil about it.

[Galaril]

SEC vs PAC 10 in SB sort of might be reverse though.

[Radii]

broken arm for Thomas Davis

[Radii]

Carolina -4 over Denver is the early line being set it appears. I think that sounds about right. I would have expected either NFC team to be a small favorite (would have said Arizona -1 or something).

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

So many things I never thought I would see will happen in this Super Bowl. Here is just a few.

Gary Kubiak will be a head coach in a Super Bowl.
Ted Ginn Jr. will be the number one wide receiver for a team in the Super Bowl.
Mike Shula is the offensive mastermind for a team in the Super Bowl.

Not in a billion years would anybody have ever taken that trifecta bet in Vegas.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Carolina scores a TD, with the game in hand, goes for 2pt conversion.
What's the point?

Originally Posted by jbergey22

They just go off of their two point conversion chart. If it says go they go, if it says kick they kick. Nothing evil about it.

As much as it sounds like running up the score, it does work strategically, even if the game was out of hand at the time. The two-pointer gave them a 27 point lead, which protected them from the unlikely scenario of three touchdowns, three two-point conversions, and a field goal beating them. After having nearly choked up games against the Giants, Packers, and Colts, I'm firmly in the camp of "beat them, bury them, and make sure they stay dead this time".

[bhlloy]

Cam vs the Broncos rush is going to be a fascinating matchup. If they can't get consistent pressure on him and keep him in the pocket, I'm not sure it's going to be close

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Super Bowl will have the two top defenses in yards per play. Denver #1 at 4.4, Carolina #2 at 4.9. Defense still wins championships.

Well, there's a silver lining for the future of the NFL. I'm really happy to see that.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Radii

broken arm for Thomas Davis

That absolutely fucking sucks. With all the injuries he's overcome and how well he's been playing - not a Panthers fan but this is a major downer

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Radii

broken arm for Thomas Davis

I still don't understand what that tight end was trying to accomplish on that play.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Cam vs the Broncos rush is going to be a fascinating matchup. If they can't get consistent pressure on him and keep him in the pocket, I'm not sure it's going to be close

Well we shall see. It ought to be fun.

[jbergey22]

Imagine if the Broncos had this defense 2 years ago. They would have won every game by 35 points.

[PilotMan]

Steeler fans are still left to wonder what if after today's game. I really felt like this was the season to make it happen. Next year could be good, but that's a long way away.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Steeler fans are still left to wonder what if after today's game. I really felt like this was the season to make it happen. Next year could be good, but that's a long way away.

With one of the top 5 running backs in the NFL back next year and you have to figure Tomlin will be all over fixing the defensive issues in the off season signs should be pointing upward for the Steelers. With Big Ben, Bell, and Brown the offense will surely be a top offense in the league again next year.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Cam vs the Broncos rush is going to be a fascinating matchup. If they can't get consistent pressure on him and keep him in the pocket, I'm not sure it's going to be close

I think everyone is going to feel that way. The Panthers have looked frightening in their two wins. They really do just about everything well. If we are ranking each individual unit, there is zero doubt that the Broncos offense will be the 4th best unit on the field.

With the Patriots, I could come up with all sorts of scenarios as to why the Broncos would pull off the upset. The Patriots weren't that dominant all year, they can't run the football at all, they struggled on the road and the Denver defense was being criminally underrated by a lot of people. Still thought Denver would lose, but I could build a case.

This game? I can't build a case. Really, the only way Denver wins this game is if the defense is uber dominant and the offense doesn't turn the ball over. I mean turn the ball over at all. Even then, how is the Denver offense going to move the ball?

With all of that said, I have a feeling Denver will keep the game interesting. Maybe not win it, but they'll give their fans a sweat in the fourth quarter. Maybe that's fanboy in me talking, We'll see.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

With one of the top 5 running backs in the NFL back next year and you have to figure Tomlin will be all over fixing the defensive issues in the off season signs should be pointing upward for the Steelers. With Big Ben, Bell, and Brown the offense will surely be a top offense in the league again next year.

Yeah, I find it hard to believe that a healthy Steelers team isn't the favorite for the AFC title next season.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Imagine if the Broncos had this defense 2 years ago. They would have won every game by 35 points.

It would have been ridiculous. As it was, it would have been a much better Super Bowl if Denver hadn't been decimated by injuries. It wasn't talked about nearly as much at the time as it probably should have been.

Go ahead and take Von Miller, Chris Harris, Derek Wolfe off of this defense and tell me how good they would be? How about a weaker version of this defense? Well, all of those guys missed the AFC Title game and the Super Bowl along with both of our starting centers and a key DT.

No, you flip this defense to that team and it would have been a blood bath for the rest of the league and I do believe the Super Bowl would have turned out a lot different. This team may lose and they may get blown out in the Super Bowl. . . but they won't get intimidated like that team was. Not by a long shot.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Yeah, I find it hard to believe that a healthy Steelers team isn't the favorite for the AFC title next season.

They were my favorite this year. I'm not so sure if Brown had been healthy that they wouldn't have beaten Denver last week and been in the title game this year.

No, their offense has a shot to be special next year. If they make any improvements on defense at all, they will be my favorite for the title.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Imagine if the Broncos had this defense 2 years ago. They would have won every game by 35 points.

Imagine if my Jags hadn't been saddled by stupid salary cap crap and injuries to Boselli and could have repeated in the early 00s going deep into the playoffs!




*Sigh*

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I still don't understand what that tight end was trying to accomplish on that play.

Yeah - the broken arm is a fluke play, but in general for a league serious about reducing concussions I'm not sure you want guys throwing their knees at the area a defenders head needs to be to make a tackle.

Of course, the league seems to not really give a shit about keeping defensive players safe. Most of these hurdles are usually some large tight end that looks laughably bad and don't end up well for the offensive player either. Given some of the other things that are now a fifteen yard penalty for safety reasons I don't think it would be a massive detriment to the league to get rid of this play either

[stevew]

Is Von Miller worth 2 first rounders and probably the largest defensive contract ever? Maybe?

Edit-especially if you can do it after the draft this year.

Also sucks about Thomas Davis.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

... and keep him in the pocket

There's the bit that has me expecting, sadly, a blowout.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by stevew

Is Von Miller worth 2 first rounders and probably the largest defensive contract ever? Maybe?

Edit-especially if you can do it after the draft this year.

Also sucks about Thomas Davis.

I think he's easily worth that. The list of players who can have that big of an impact on a game on defense is pretty short and he might be at the top, with apologies to JJ Watt.

[stevew]

I forgot about the exclusive franchise tag. Denver will probably use that

[flere-imsaho]

Disappointed my Patriots lost, but have to credit that Denver D, both the line and the secondary. They were unbelievable.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Disappointed my Patriots lost, but have to credit that Denver D, both the line and the secondary. They were unbelievable.

Same here.

[Kodos]

They're gonna need two weeks to get ready to play again. Talk about leaving it all on the field. Miller was a monster.

[QuikSand]

I hope we (the collective followership) can gin up some talk about the '85 Bears during the SB run-up. I think this year's Denver D is one for the ages. Was really glad to see them deliver that message so powerfully in the huge stage yesterday.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So, a side note here.

Two years ago, thogh it seems liek longer, we were watching the AFC playoffs with total awe. The Peyton Offense in Denver was a remarkable juggernaut (seriously, if you don't remember how awesome they were, I'll wait while you go check).

Meanwhile, scrappy New England was dealing with some manner of weird injuries and so forth (I honestly don't recall the details) - but they managed to advance in the playoffs and face Denver. Denver was a heavy favorite, but at the time I felt like there was a really intriguing subcurrent there.

Peyton Manning had already put himself into the elite tier of all time QBs, but always had the knock that he didn't deliver mightily in the postseason. Brady was the golden boy who did, despite not having the gaudy stats by and large. At the time, most people had those two guys pegged very close to one another in that barroom GOAT conversation. A healthy two-way debate. I would have taken Manning's side at one barstool, personally.

In the 2013-14 playoffs, the fascinating under-appreciated story was actually about Brady. WHAT IF Brady, with seemingly nothing around him, somehow engineered an upset of the might Broncos and went on to win yet another title? With what he had around him, I think that would have been a monstrous upset, and a remarkable entry into that GOAT convration. Maybe enough to put him into the driver's seat and forever separate him from Manning.

But with TWO different quarterbacks playing for major GOAT credentials at the same time - that seemed like a great moment. And it was obscured a bit by the totally amazeballs season that Team Peyton had assembled, and how he was the one going after history (win with two teams, greatest QB season ever, etc).

...

Any, fast forward to now. Brady is not even the MVP, but has clearly emerged as the top gun here, and a now-healthy Patriots team looks to go back to back. We are again talking about another entry into the GOAT conversation, but it's all about Brady. And deservedly so, right? Thy win out here, and he probably becomes the top guy on the consensus list for now and for 25 years from now.

But...let's not overlook Manning now. The storyline here, deservedly so, has been that the team has excelled around him, an even despite him this year. He is not his old self, and their judgment to get him back into the lineup is even questionable, given his obvious limitations.

But we again have a crazy and delicious WHAT IF, don't we? WHAT IF Denver wins this week, and gets to play against the golden boy and the (surely) favored Patriots? And WHAT IF Peyton plays well and really contributes to a win? Not a 400 yard passing game, necessarily, but what if he is throwing precision passes and calling all his audibles, and makes a signature gritty/clutch play or two? And they go on to win it all with him playing well?

What, then? The biggest Manning detractors are the anti-clutch types. But a title here with him at the helm, almost regardless of how much he contributes, would have to help his legacy a ton (think John Elway, who suddenly became a talented game manager handing off to Terrell Davis and forever escaped a psychological near-tie with Jim Kelly in the GOAT conversation). But if Manning actually WINS one of these games with the big play at the end or somesuch... what then?

You don't get this a lot. We saw it with Federer and Nadal in tennis, perhaps. No other recent examples come right to mind for me. Two guys, already cemented as legends, simultaneously battling for their exact place in history among the very to echelon of their shared set.

Brady seemed to put it to be last year with a great comeback season and improbable title. Maning seems done. But how fascinating would it be to see the tables turned here?

I'm not calling it. Hardly anyone is. If anything, we see Von Miller with a sack-strip-fumble-six as the face of any sort of Denver title run this year. But
I'm just saying...this sort of thing doesn't even come together on paper very often. It's usually only in your backyard, when you're making shit up as you go.

Reviving as still/more relevant.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I hope we (the collective followership) can gin up some talk about the '85 Bears during the SB run-up. I think this year's Denver D is one for the ages. Was really glad to see them deliver that message so powerfully in the huge stage yesterday.

As bad as he's been as a head coach, Wade Phillips is one hell of a defensive coordinator.

[Suicane75]

Does Peyton walk away if they win?

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Does Peyton walk away if they win?

I thought he was going to if they had won two years ago, TBH

[Dutch]

I still hate the decision to push extra-points back. The Broncos and Patriots both scored 2 TD's and both were 2 for 2 in FG's...yet the stupid xtra point reared it's ugly head, negating a fine comeback by the Patriots that would've...in years past tied the game (99% of the time) and sent it into overtime. (The early miss that would've normally been made and allowed the Pats another chip-shot.

I guess it helps keeps a % of games shorter but I won't budge on the ridiculousness of added weight applied to the extra-point in determining the outcome of games.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I still hate the decision to push extra-points back. The Broncos and Patriots both scored 2 TD's and both were 2 for 2 in FG's...yet the stupid xtra point reared it's ugly head, negating a fine comeback by the Patriots that would've...in years past tied the game (99% of the time) and sent it into overtime.

I guess it helps keeps a % of games shorter but I won't budge on the ridiculousness of added weight applied to the extra-point in determining the outcome of games.

If it doesn't affect the outcome of a game, why even have it at all?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cartman

If it doesn't affect the outcome of a game, why even have it at all?

I am a proponent of his making TDs worth 7 points....with the option of going for "2"...and if it fails you, you "lose" a point and just get 6.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I hope we (the collective followership) can gin up some talk about the '85 Bears during the SB run-up. I think this year's Denver D is one for the ages. Was really glad to see them deliver that message so powerfully in the huge stage yesterday.

I'm going to pick on a fellow poster, but only because I'm making a larger point. At the start of the playoffs, we had one person here who said the Denver D was living off of their first half and hadn't been good for awhile. The reason I highlight the comment is because of how many other people believe it to be true.

I wrote a long post counteracting the nonsense, but I think people have missed the point of this defense all year. The Broncos forced the 7th most turnovers in the NFL this year and they finished with a -4 turnover ratio.

The Broncos offense turned the ball over 31 times this year. That would be the 3rd most in the entire league. Take a look at the rest of the teams with a negative turnover ratio and see how many made the playoffs. That would be zero. It's all because of this defense.

If the Denver defense wants to be talked about with those teams, they will need to dismantle Carolina. Sadly, the Broncos offense is so poor I'm not sure that can happen.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Does Peyton walk away if they win?

I think he walks away no matter what.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Reviving as still/more relevant.

This played out almost exactly as you said. Manning wasn't great, but he was more than good enough.

Now Manning is 3-1 against Brady in championship games.

I surveyed forums and comments on this stuff last night and it was about as expected by the fan boys. The Broncos/Colts fans going "Manning is 3-1 against Brady in championship games, enough with the clutch BS" and the Patriots fans holding up the Super Bow rings and telling everyone else to STFU.

One thing is for sure: If Manning had played like Brady did yesterday, very few people on the Brady GOAT side would have defended him. When talking about the one and dones, none of them ever wipe out a Manning loss by saying "Well, the Steelers overwhelmed him, that defense was terrific" or "That Dolphins loss doesn't count because his idiot kicker missed a FG"

I think in the long term, this will help the Manning legacy. It kills Patriots fans to know that Manning is now 3-2 in playoff games against Brady. They can make all the excuses they want, the record is the record. (that type of argument should sound very familiar to many of the Patriots fans who get into this debate)

My personal reality is summed up like this:

1) It took me far to long to appreciate Brady. Even in his early Super Bowls he was better than I gave him credit for.

2) It took me to long to appreciate what I was watching in these Brady/Manning games. Instead of being caught up in who was better, I didn't pay attention to the fact I was watching 2 of the greatest ever duel.

3) With a gun to my head, two average coaches, two average skill position talent levels across the rest of their teams, I take Manning.

4) If someone has the opinion of, but, but, but Super Bowls. . . I'll just point out that I would take Manning over Bradshaw, the other Manning, Bart Starr, and Troy Aikman too.

5) That doesn't mean I don't have respect for Brady. I don't like the guy. . . but what a damned player. If Stewart had been in the game yesterday, that pass to Gronk down the seam never gets completed. But Brady knew he wasn't in the game and the throw he made was stunning. Simply stunning.