NCAA Infractions Committee Report on USC - Ghosts of infractions past haunt SC

[MrBug708]

2004 was one of the few years Oklahoma didn't cheat, right?

[duckman]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

2004 was one of the few years Oklahoma didn't cheat, right?

"Failure to monitor" is hardly cheating, but keep fucking that chicken (as cartman would say). Of course when "Slick Rick" gets busted (and he will), you'll won't be such a pompous ass about your program.

[MrBug708]

I thought it was funny :] wasn't meant harmfully my soon to be conferencemate

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Heh...from Detrich Riley's facebook (A kid who picked UCLA over USC after being a silent verbal to them for most of last year). It was a thread with George Uko, a Top 5 DT this past year.

FB status says "DAMN USC Trojans Im sorry to hear about the sanctions."

George Uko responds (pardon the language): "fuk fufkf fukkkkkkk meeeeeee D nigga"

DR says "its not too late to transfer bro i told you man. should've listened to me"

Uko: "shuld culd of would of idk nigga im not trying to sit out a year"

Good thing for Mr. Uko is that they'll likely be let out of their NLI's if true

You missed the part where Uko said "I'd rather suck dicks for 4 years than be a Bruin." This is also very upsetting and I think USC was unfairly made an example of. However, one thing I'm very proud of is how the recruits and current team members are pulling together. Lots of great quotes from recruits and current players about how being a USC Trojan is more important to them than any bowl ban. If Slick Rick can't beat USC in recruiting or on the field during the next 2-3 years, he is never going to do it..

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

We'll see what's in the report. My guess is at least McNair told the committee that he had some knowledge and that other coaches did as well. It's as close to a death sentence as we've seen for a major program since SMU, so there has got to be some bad stuff in there somewhere.

Assuming the above, I'm pretty sad and disillusioned about the whole affair. You do the crime, you do the time.

I read the report (albeit quickly) when I got home. It is only 67 pages and it seems like a lot of supposition and very little proof. Lots of he said, she said stuff. I'm pissed off how hard they came down on USC with a lack of proof.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

NCAA could have been gradnstanding and figured it would get thrown out in appeals and everyone would bitch at USC for getting away but the NCAA looks like it did its job?

I think that is exactly what is going to happen.

[MrBug708]

USC should sue :]

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think that is exactly what is going to happen.

I honestly don't see an appeal getting anything overturned. You can't really appeal on the grounds that penalties received were excessive anymore. You have to show that the committee had an agenda and that's damn near impossible to prove.

[Eaglesfan27]

These are just a small sample of some of the great quotes from players on the team today:

Barkley said, "It is a privilege to play at USC no matter how many games we play. We're looking forward to Hawaii. We're not concerned with bowls."

Marc Tyler said, "They can ban us from the post season but the Trojans are still gonna ball, We still going to work hard and ball for our real fans."

Shareece Wright says, "Fight On Trojan World! Let's keep grinding to be the best, don't let things you can control change you!"

Patrick Hall said, "I play the game for my family, friends and teammates! Nothing gone stop us from being great, working hard, or being a family!"

Havili, "I am proud to be a Trojan and wouldn't have it any other way. Fight on!"




Also, word is that George Farmer, SR has told people that his son, who is an elite recruit who has been considered a silent to USC is still firmly for USC and these sanctions won't deter them at all. Several other recruits have said similar things.

Edit: Forgot a great quote from Kessler where he talked about wanting to be a Trojan since he was little and he was still all USC. Antuan Woods said he is still firmly committed to USC as well and can't wait to be a Trojan.

[MrBug708]

If being a trojan means being receptive to having your coaching staff lying to your face, im glad they are at USC

[RedKingGold]

Did I miss this? When did EF move into MBBF territory?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Did I miss this? When did EF move into MBBF territory?

Heh. You hit on something I was holding back on.

I have a TON of respect for EF27 - one of my favorite posters on this board. Logical, rational, intelligent, etc, etc.

His blind love and denial for USC just doesn't fit with everything else. It really is pretty MBBF-like.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Heh. You hit on something I was holding back on.

I have a TON of respect for EF27 - one of my favorite posters on this board. Logical, rational, intelligent, etc, etc.

His blind love and denial for USC just doesn't fit with everything else. It really is pretty MBBF-like.

I'm admittedly very biased in favor of USC.. if it wasn't for them, there is a fair chance I wouldn't be a doctor today. Couldn't afford college without that scholarship and there name helped me get into medical school. That being said, I don't think I've been into MBBF territory at least in this thread. Has anyone else here actually read the 67 pages of the report? They don't have the info in there to support their sanctions.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Has anyone else here actually read the 67 pages of the report? They don't have the info in there to support their sanctions.

I haven't read it yet, but I'm honestly can't take the USC fans word on it. No offense, but he collective bunch have been delusional throughout this investigation.

In '08 the NCAA redid the way appeals are handled and it's made it incredibly tough to beat them in appeals (schools are 0 for 4 thus far). Here's what penalties can be overturned for:

• The ruling was clearly contrary to the evidence.

• The individual or school did not actually break NCAA rules.

• There was a procedural error that caused the COI to find a violation.

• The penalty is excessive AND is an abuse of discretion.

Their best bet in this appeal would likely be the 4th one, but proving that the penalties were both excessive and an abuse of discretion isn't going to be easy. I think it's safe to say the reason the NCAA was so slow in handing the punishment out was to make sure they were penalties that would stick.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I'm admittedly very biased in favor of USC.. if it wasn't for them, there is a fair chance I wouldn't be a doctor today. Couldn't afford college without that scholarship and there name helped me get into medical school. That being said, I don't think I've been into MBBF territory at least in this thread. Has anyone else here actually read the 67 pages of the report? They don't have the info in there to support their sanctions.

I did just finish reading it. There is enough evidence in there to support the NCAA's view and U$C is at fault for many of the things in there. Is everything backed up with a piece of paper? No, but part of that is because Bush and his family wouldn't talk to them, but there are plenty of smoking guns that show there were extra benefits and most of them should have been noticed.

[dawgfan]

I'm a little surprised USC got hit as hard as they did, but obviously the NCAA was convinced the culture around the football program was waaaaaay too lax, and McNair lying to them was a bad move as well.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that USC fans have that the Trojans were unfairly punished, and that the infractions were not based on concrete evidence - I feel the same way about the allegations against Washington back in '93 and the level of punishment leveled back then on the Huskies.

On the other hand, because my Huskies were hit so hard for what they did, there was a part of me hoping to see the Trojans hammered hard for their sins too - tit for tat.

Oh, and where's the mea culpa from RainMaker who kept claiming the NCAA plays favorites and wouldn't dare hammer USC?

[SnDvls]

wow the rebuttle to the NCAA's 67 page report is 169 pages long.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Did I miss this? When did EF move into MBBF territory?

Ditto.

This dude is beyond delusional.

[SnDvls]

SC needs some help on their redactions? I've seen several spots where they actually name Bush's step dad "Griffin" and his mom "Denise" by name and it's not blacked out...oops

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I'm admittedly very biased in favor of USC.. if it wasn't for them, there is a fair chance I wouldn't be a doctor today. Couldn't afford college without that scholarship and there name helped me get into medical school. That being said, I don't think I've been into MBBF territory at least in this thread. Has anyone else here actually read the 67 pages of the report? They don't have the info in there to support their sanctions.

EF27, we have had our differences, of course, but outside of USC, I should tell you I otherwise hold you in the highest regard. I have seen you exhibit the qualities of a good, well-intentioned, helpful and interesting person in most any thread not touching on USC football.

What USC football makes you become is ugly. I almost wish you were a complete jerk in all aspects, so at least it would make more sense. Have you been MBBF like in this thread? I don't recall. My memory of the earlier posts in this thread showed cactusdave to have taken on the role of myopic Trojie.

But it's not unfair to label you almost completely and totally blinded by your devotion to all things USC, and you display that regularly.

Given what you have posted here, I can see why you would be so supportive of USC, because of what the opportunities the school has given you (I'll put aside for the moment that, IMO, any school is usually just a tool, and you should instead give yourself and all your own hard work the credit for all that you have achieved).

So given that, you shouldn't be supportive of this situation. You should be mad. You should be angry. At Garrett. At Cheatey Petey. At a USC administration that handled this all so stupidly and arrogantly. You love your school and your football team. And your own administration bent it over and fucked it up the ass, because they were too greedy and too willing to bend the rules (or to allow the rules to be bent) for that greed. That should piss you off, not make you want to join the "Us Against Them" bandwagon.

I'm not interested in ripping USC fans today. I feel bad for them, because I know their love for their program is genuine and they have had nothing to do with what happened today. But there's a time when those fans themselves need to turn to their administration and demand some accountability for once.

[Greyroofoo]

So I'm hearing in this thread the EF27 is a sane rational human being except when you talk about his college football team.



In other words EF27 is just like any other college football fan.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

So I'm hearing in this thread the EF27 is a sane rational human being except when you talk about his college football team.



In other words EF27 is just like any other college football fan.

There are different levels of devotion among college football fans. EF27 is a member of one of the more extreme such levels.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

There are different levels of devotion among college football fans. EF27 is a member of one of the more extreme such levels.

I don't know. I think there is something different when you go to the school and believe it truly made your life better.

My brother is a Florida grad and if I mention anything about how Urban Meyer is a douche, he goes into a tirade about how he is the second coming of Christ. I constantly hear about how the SEC is the greatest conference in the world and how horrible everyone else is.

He's an intelligent, sane person in everything else in life. But go negative about the Gators and he turns delusional.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't know. I think there is something different when you go to the school and believe it truly made your life better.

My brother is a Florida grad and if I mention anything about how Urban Meyer is a douche, he goes into a tirade about how he is the second coming of Christ. I constantly hear about how the SEC is the greatest conference in the world and how horrible everyone else is.

He's an intelligent, sane person in everything else in life. But go negative about the Gators and he turns delusional.

That doesn't sound like you're disagreeing.

[MrBug708]

I enjoy the verbal sparring with EF27, though I could imagine how people don't like it, it tends to go on and consume multiple threads.

His team just got the crap knocked out of him and he's facing a reduced squad over the next few years. On top of that, Lane Kiffin is the coach. No need to pile on

[MrBug708]

Oh Mike Garrett

"As I read the decision by the NCAA," he told the group, "… I read between the lines and there was nothing but a lot of envy. They wish they all were Trojans."

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That doesn't sound like you're disagreeing.

I'm not. I just think that his reaction is more the norm and not the extreme.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm not. I just think that his reaction is more the norm and not the extreme.

You may be right. I would certainly agree that, in general, college fans tend to be more passionate about their schools than the average fan about a professional franchise.

But I do think EF27 sometimes takes it even further (giving rise to the MBBF reference). He's far from alone in that on this board, though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Oh Mike Garrett

I kind of figured you made that quote up ... then I saw that he actually said it.

Unbelievable. If that doesn't get him fired before the weekend then any claim of "institutional control" at USC is utterly laughable.

[MrBug708]

Later, he added: "Today I got a purpose for really wanting to dominate for another 10 years."

[Atocep]

I'm reading through the report now. So far I'm 30 pages into it and evidence is pretty damning; especially when you consider the fact that Bush refused to cooperate. The NCAA appears to have done a thorough job.

I would definitely say, though, that Agent A's testimony combined with his sister, the brother-in-law, the NFLPA, and phone records is easily enough to come down hard on the football team in this case.

McNair lying absolutely killed them. Another thing that is clearly working against them in this report is the fact that USC didn't really seem to cooperate much. They fought tooth and nail on every fact in the investigation. Garrett's comments after the report have done nothing but show that there was quite a bit of arrogance in the USC administration that gave them belief that the NCAA really couldn't touch them.

So given that, you shouldn't be supportive of this situation. You should be mad. You should be angry. At Garrett. At Cheatey Petey. At a USC administration that handled this all so stupidly and arrogantly. You love your school and your football team. And your own administration bent it over and fucked it up the ass, because they were too greedy and too willing to bend the rules (or to allow the rules to be bent) for that greed. That should piss you off, not make you want to join the "Us Against Them" bandwagon.

From what I've read thus far, CR's comment that I quoted above lines up perfectly with my feelings on this. This falls entirely on the old coaching staff and the administration. USC fans should be asking for an investigation into the athletic department instead of pointing fingers at the NCAA and screaming that the penalties are unjust.

[BishopMVP]

Whither cactusdave?

One point I haven't seen mentioned - upperclassmen with 2 years or less of eligibility will be able to transfer to any school they want without having to sit out for a year like a transfer normally would. I know according to EF27's collection of quotes everyone is still a TrOjAn 4 LyFe!!!, but I wonder if any players will take advantage of the get out of jail free clause. It's a unique circumstance where they can literally shop around and see what BCS teams they could start for.

PS - as long as we're all being myopic homers, USC can probably thank having ND on their schedule for avoiding the TV ban.

[Radii]

I could name 10 people without trying who are way more irrational about their football teams on this board than EF27. I'm surprised this is even being discussed to be honest!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Radii

I could name 10 people without trying who are way more irrational about their football teams on this board than EF27. I'm surprised this is even being discussed to be honest!

Really? I can think of several who are about as irrational, but I can think of few who are more irrational. And I am talking college football here. So I'll throw the gauntlet in front of you-- go ahead and name them.

I'll give you one-- cactusdave. He already showed he is more irrational.

I view EF27 and MBBF on about the same level.

Keep in mind, because I am a UCLA fan, I see this side of EF27 far more often than most.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Given what you have posted here, I can see why you would be so supportive of USC, because of what the opportunities the school has given you (I'll put aside for the moment that, IMO, any school is usually just a tool, and you should instead give yourself and all your own hard work the credit for all that you have achieved).

So given that, you shouldn't be supportive of this situation. You should be mad. You should be angry. At Garrett. At Cheatey Petey. At a USC administration that handled this all so stupidly and arrogantly. You love your school and your football team. And your own administration bent it over and fucked it up the ass, because they were too greedy and too willing to bend the rules (or to allow the rules to be bent) for that greed. That should piss you off, not make you want to join the "Us Against Them" bandwagon.

I'm not interested in ripping USC fans today. I feel bad for them, because I know their love for their program is genuine and they have had nothing to do with what happened today. But there's a time when those fans themselves need to turn to their administration and demand some accountability for once.

I'm with him.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I kind of figured you made that quote up ... then I saw that he actually said it.

Unbelievable. If that doesn't get him fired before the weekend then any claim of "institutional control" at USC is utterly laughable.

I read the quote. Reread it. Looked it up like you. Reread it again.

Very few things in the sports world flabbergast me. That quote did. Were I a USC fan, I'd be demanding he be fired. Now is NOT the time to start insulting the NCAA. It's the time for apologies for mistakes that were made, promises to put policies in place to ensure it doesn't happen again, and fighting the report behind closed doors.

If I had a son, I'd be one of those jerk parents that would refuse to sign the letter of intent with my son to prevent him from ever playing for a university that had him hired in any capacity.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So I'll throw the gauntlet in front of you-- go ahead and name them.

I'll give you one-- cactusdave. He already showed he is more irrational.

Me? I don't think I'm irrational to the Vols. I actually feel like I'm a bit of a realist in that regards. I quit expecting national championships at UT years ago...once Sanders showed he was just riding Cutcliffe's coattails for a few seasons.

I'm all orange, all the time. I'm 100% Vol in any and every sport...but I hope I'm not viewed as irrational.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I read the quote. Reread it. Looked it up like you. Reread it again.

Very few things in the sports world flabbergast me. That quote did. Were I a USC fan, I'd be demanding he be fired. Now is NOT the time to start insulting the NCAA. It's the time for apologies for mistakes that were made, promises to put policies in place to ensure it doesn't happen again, and fighting the report behind closed doors.

If I had a son, I'd be one of those jerk parents that would refuse to sign the letter of intent with my son to prevent him from ever playing for a university that had him hired in any capacity.

It's incredibly hard to believe he actually said that.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Poli

Me? I don't think I'm irrational to the Vols. I actually feel like I'm a bit of a realist in that regards. I quit expecting national championships at UT years ago...once Sanders showed he was just riding Cutcliffe's coattails for a few seasons.

I'm all orange, all the time. I'm 100% Vol in any and every sport...but I hope I'm not viewed as irrational.

If Radii had named you, I wouldn't have agreed. I don't see you as irrational about UT. Or at least most of the time.

[DeToxRox]

What amazes me about USC (the administration) is their unbelievable arrogance in the face of all this. I don't even just mean Garrett's absurd comments, but the fact that, as sanctions were looming, they decide it is in their best interest to hire Lane Kiffin and Ed Orgeron and allow them to keep McNair on staff is amazing.

That is my biggest issue with USC right now. They need to be humbled and this punishment does not seem to have done anything to do that yet. I do sense it'll happen once the appeal holds up, but who knows?

[DeToxRox]

CR had me thinking about irrational fans on FOFC. I think off the top of my head I can think of one MSU fan, one OSU fan, one Mizzou fan (shocker) and that is about it right now. I like to think that the Michigan fans on here are about as rational a fan base as there is (ditto for Red Wings, Lions, etc)

Just how we roll.

[Ksyrup]

That sounds like the kind of frat boy-type quote Kiffin would give. Completely immature and seemingly uttered without consideration for the consequences, or without any decorum befitting his position with the school.

Maybe this really is his dream job.

[MrBug708]

With how it stands right now, given their scholarship situation, USC will only be able to sign seven recruits for 2011. They currently have seven committed.

Im guessing we'll see a lot of defections from the upperclassmen

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

PS - as long as we're all being myopic homers, USC can probably thank having ND on their schedule for avoiding the TV ban.

No, not just Notre Dame, but every team. It's hard to justify banning the opponents of USC for the sins of the Trogans

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

BC makes it official; released a statement a short time ago....in accordance with the NCAA findings, USC's 2005 BCS championship has been vacated.

Huh?

The BCS is likely to force Southern California to vacate its national championship. BCS executive director Bill Hancock says in a statement Thursday that the presidential oversight committee will meet soon to discuss whether USC will be stripped of its title.

If that happens, there will be no BCS champion for the 2004-05 season. Hancock said no action would be taken by the BCS until the appeal is heard.

Given the way Kiffin and Orgeron handled the recruit situation on the way out of Tennessee, I find it funny that schools are now permitted to contact USC Jrs and Srs about transferring without having to sit a year.

[Poli]

I like it.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

U$C

Hah... I see what you did there.

[Eaglesfan27]

FWIW, I do think MG needs to fired ASAP.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

wow the rebuttle to the NCAA's 67 page report is 169 pages long.

Common misperception even on USC boards. That 169 page document is USC's response from the initial allegations and was written in 09.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

EF27, we have had our differences, of course, but outside of USC, I should tell you I otherwise hold you in the highest regard. I have seen you exhibit the qualities of a good, well-intentioned, helpful and interesting person in most any thread not touching on USC football.

What USC football makes you become is ugly. I almost wish you were a complete jerk in all aspects, so at least it would make more sense. Have you been MBBF like in this thread? I don't recall. My memory of the earlier posts in this thread showed cactusdave to have taken on the role of myopic Trojie.

But it's not unfair to label you almost completely and totally blinded by your devotion to all things USC, and you display that regularly.

Given what you have posted here, I can see why you would be so supportive of USC, because of what the opportunities the school has given you (I'll put aside for the moment that, IMO, any school is usually just a tool, and you should instead give yourself and all your own hard work the credit for all that you have achieved).

So given that, you shouldn't be supportive of this situation. You should be mad. You should be angry. At Garrett. At Cheatey Petey. At a USC administration that handled this all so stupidly and arrogantly. You love your school and your football team. And your own administration bent it over and fucked it up the ass, because they were too greedy and too willing to bend the rules (or to allow the rules to be bent) for that greed. That should piss you off, not make you want to join the "Us Against Them" bandwagon.

I'm not interested in ripping USC fans today. I feel bad for them, because I know their love for their program is genuine and they have had nothing to do with what happened today. But there's a time when those fans themselves need to turn to their administration and demand some accountability for once.

CHief, have you read yourself on UCLA? You and Bug are so ridiculously over the top ( I want to CMU - my school won't qualify for the 3rd division) that this sounds like a pot calling the kettle black.