Biggest WW Dislikes?

EagleFan · 09-20-2008, 12:09 PM

With my name slowly getting closer to the top of the host list I wanted to get some feedback from players. Opinions from veterans is greatly appreciated but feedback from anyone would be great.

What aspects of a game do you dislike the most? Is there something in a game that would either not want to play it or maybe lead to you not being as active?

Thanks in advance.

EagleFan · 09-20-2008, 12:13 PM

dola: Wanted to add that I know that not any game may be perfect and someone will dislike something about any possible game. Just wanted to at least find out if there are things that are tops on most people's list and try to avoid that.

Barkeep49 · 09-20-2008, 12:13 PM

Great topic.

I hate choices where I have no way of assessing the advantages or disadvantages of that choice. I hate having "surprise rules". That is there can be surprises, and surprises can be fun, but it needs to fit in the framework of the rules, not be outside of it. So someone in a game of Hoops having a surprising or unknown power? Pretty cool. Someone who can radically change the written rules? Normally annoying.

claphamsa · 09-20-2008, 01:10 PM

The thing that gets me the worst is not knowing win conditions.... especially when you have 3rd parties or other odd roles (like the seer in highlander)

Alan T · 09-20-2008, 01:30 PM

No reveals on death

Barkeep49 · 09-20-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

No reveals on death

Oh yeah. That's a definite downer for me. I think there are ways to do this right, but for the most part I can't stand no reveals on death.

hoopsguy · 09-20-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Great topic.

I hate choices where I have no way of assessing the advantages or disadvantages of that choice. I hate having "surprise rules". That is there can be surprises, and surprises can be fun, but it needs to fit in the framework of the rules, not be outside of it.

I agree with this, but also think it helps to give an example. Here is one that I think incorporated elements of right/wrong at the same time.

Example - early deadline in Alan T's "Clash of the Gods" game.

Pros - very cool power, fit with theme of game, major opportunity for advantageous play

Con - penalizing other players (beyond the missed vote that day) for not having their action in by deadline when they had no idea this rule was in the game

saldana · 09-20-2008, 08:27 PM

i have always disliked the Witness role unless it is set up to have a chance at not working. It is basically a free kill for the village, and usually boils down to a He Said He Said situation where the witness and the wolf square off and it just becomes a pissing match

Lathum · 09-20-2008, 10:17 PM

I will never play in a game where roles arent revealed on death.

RendeR · 09-21-2008, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I will never play in a game where roles arent revealed on death.

What about a game where there are different requirements for revealing upon death?

For example, if an assassin kills someone at night with their ability, THEY learn the role but no one else does as they weren't around to study the body?

Normal lynches would reveal and wolf night kills would reveal, but not pepole killed by the assassin?

Would something like that pass your requirement?

RendeR · 09-21-2008, 08:42 AM

Because as much of a pain in the ass that you are, i really do enjoy having you in games =)

path12 · 09-21-2008, 11:49 AM

There are ways to do limited or no reveals, but it's really tough to do effectively.

My biggest dislike is along the lines of what BK and clap said -- unclear objectives and/or hidden rules that prevent the players from understanding what they're trying to accomplish. I hate flailing around not knowing what is or isn't going to work in a game ruleset.

PurdueBrad · 09-21-2008, 12:36 PM

I'm not a veteran but EF I hope you don't mind me chiming in. I really enjoy the games where there are choices. It keeps me even more engaged and I do like having to debate the value of those choices. The games that particularly stand out for me (and no offense meant if I'm forgetting yours) were the Cruise Ship game, the Blade game, and the labyrinth (both with movements and then the random events).

I can honestly say that there hasn't been a game or even a mechanic that I disliked. I believe it was Render's game where somebody was able to call an early deadline, hence taking me out of commission for a day as punishment but I actually even enjoyed that dynamic as it made things quite unpredictable.

Lorena · 09-21-2008, 01:38 PM

An amulet a wolf can use to show up as a villager when scanned.

Barkeep49 · 09-21-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorena

An amulet a wolf can use to show up as a villager when scanned.

What don't you like about this? For me, this is the sort of thing where I become frustrated if it isn't in the rules. If it is in the rules, it doesn't bother me too much as an occasional mechanic, though it really does neuter the seer.

Alan T · 09-21-2008, 03:18 PM

I'm not sure that I see the amulet thing being much different than a cunning wolf. Just with an item-oriented game moreso than a role-oriented game. Now if it wasn't listed in the rules (either amulet or cunning wolf not listed in the rules), then yeah that would be annoying. I would think an amulet that could be passed around might be slightly overpowered and annoying too...

An amulet by itself though just seems like a cunning wolf to me though. (I don't remember who's game used that mechanic)

Thomkal · 09-21-2008, 08:58 PM

well if you have rules in a game, and they change during a game, they better mean something and not just be flavor or you are going to have a lot of annoyed players at the end of the game. (except perhaps Path.

)

I agree about the no reveals on death being a game I'm unlikely to play in. Unless there's a player(s) who get information, or conditions where the roles will be revealed at some point and known to the players beforehand.

st.cronin · 09-22-2008, 02:15 AM

I tend to dislike games which are overly complex, and/or use many random elements throughout the game. For example, a bodyguard that has a 25% chance of failing, and a 15% chance of identifying the attacker - I hate those sorts of things.

Narcizo · 09-22-2008, 02:18 AM

Games being too much about cunning gameplay mechanics and, thus, winding up not really being werewolf at all. I think the main elements of werewolf should be about the villagers pooling their thoughts to lynch the wolves and the wolves trying to disguise themselves so that doesn't work whilst killing off the villagers.

Agree about pure non-reveal games, but I think there's plenty of room to have limited reveal or whatever.

Oh and what Cronin said about random elements being too predominant. In my opinion random elements just make a game harder to balance.

jeheinz72 · 09-22-2008, 09:49 AM

Seer Scans

Kidding.

I'll echo the thoughts about knowing who needs what to win. I do a lot of my analysis based upon taking what someone needs to accomplish and piecing the info I have into a theory upon where they are trying to get to (I did a lot of that in the Congress game). Not knowing that pisses me off.

I'm also not a big fan of conversions.

Neon_Chaos · 09-22-2008, 10:33 AM

I hate not having the time to play.

I also hate games with items. I abhor them.

hoopsguy · 09-22-2008, 11:27 AM

Hate items? Boo!

I think there have been several fun games with items. However, this is another one of those cases where they should be spelled out in the rules. Having surprise powers come from unknown items doesn't really allow you to plan as a player.

Lorena · 09-22-2008, 12:33 PM

There was a game I played where a ww was scanned and showed up as a villager. Don't remember the game, but I was frustrated because it wasn't in the rules.

The Jackal · 09-22-2008, 12:59 PM

My labyrinth game was a total experiment and I apologize to those of you who may have been frustrated with the lack of known rules before the game started, but I was in no way working randomly. I see some positives in hidden information, but I agree that one thing that would always bug me is if there is a conversion possibility and it isn't listed in the rules.

That being said, if I end up running a sequel to the Labyrinth game, the roles and rules will be etched in stone now that I see where it went.

claphamsa · 09-22-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

My labyrinth game was a total experiment and I apologize to those of you who may have been frustrated with the lack of known rules before the game started, but I was in no way working randomly. I see some positives in hidden information, but I agree that one thing that would always bug me is if there is a conversion possibility and it isn't listed in the rules.

That being said, if I end up running a sequel to the Labyrinth game, the roles and rules will be etched in stone now that I see where it went.

my game was similar.... I went overboard on the unknowns. Ill publish much more for lolcats II: the hunt for Bukkit!

hoopsguy · 09-22-2008, 02:36 PM

I hate being converted, but I don't hate having that rule in a game every once in awhile.

I hate the witness role as a one-off wolf catcher. I think it is possible to implement it fairly.

I generally look to minimize randomness in my games, although I don't think random = bad. For example, in Path's "everyone is a seer" games, I think the random elements worked pretty well in creating a fun game.

I like seeing people put out rulesets that challenge the existing concepts, even if they flame out every once in awhile. I hope that people don't read this thread and become so conservative with their games that we end up playing whatever version of WW is deemed "least offensive" by the majority.

Good luck with your game, EagleFan. Hope you have fun creating it and running it.

Schmidty · 09-22-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I tend to dislike games which are overly complex, and/or use many random elements throughout the game. For example, a bodyguard that has a 25% chance of failing, and a 15% chance of identifying the attacker - I hate those sorts of things.

Damn. You would have hated my Lovecraft game. I had a few roles like that in there.

I put a lot of time into that game, but I learned a lot running it. I think I was more interested in the "mood" and story than I was in solid mechanics. I wanted everything to seem weird and unknown because of the craziness of the Mythos, but looking back I would change quite a few mechanics.

I have a chance to do so in a couple of months when Mrs. and I run a game.

claphamsa · 09-22-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Damn. You would have hated my Lovecraft game. I had a few roles like that in there.

I put a lot of time into that game, but I learned a lot running it. I think I was more interested in the "mood" and story than I was in solid mechanics. I wanted everything to seem weird and unknown because of the craziness of the Mythos, but looking back I would change quite a few mechanics.

I have a chance to do so in a couple of months when Mrs. and I run a game.

i think alot of us get into this... we wanna run a cool unique game... and it may or may not (usualy not) work. I think i died real early in your game, so I dont remember the twists :P

RendeR · 09-22-2008, 07:44 PM

My army/navy game has been streamlined a lot. There should be NO randomness at all in the final rule set.

st.cronin · 09-22-2008, 07:45 PM

I agree with hoopsguy that innovation on any of these fronts is possible. Just proceed with caution.

EagleFan · 09-22-2008, 08:03 PM

A few ideas which I had include:

Not a no reveal upon death exactly but something where there are plenty of clues given, just not spelled out with the "PurdueBrad was the xxxxxxxx" statement (oh wait, if I am running it I can't vote to lynch PB...

).

Not sure if this item has been introduced but I had an idea of a mask which can be used to disguise oneself as as someone different (a way to maybe "trick" the wolves into not finding their target if it ends up being you with the risk being if you disguise yourself as their target for the night).

Very unsure about this one but no roles being sent out upon the start of the game (something along the lines of being exposed to some sort of bacteria and it may or may not affect everyone or may have affected some already). I have been having a rugh time trying to balance that one out (I would be interested to see how day one plays out with there being no true "wolves" yet but no-one knowing that).

Not a set convert but maybe an option to allow the wolves to convert someone at some point which leaves anyone up for conversion (including roled players). This one is also one that I need to figure out a balance for but it does add to the strategy a little (like the wolves not doing a night kill to make the villagers think the convert happened and hopefully lure a roled player into a reveal).

There is also the idea of three teams (werewolves, vampires and villager- or something along that line).

With all this said I will probably end up doing a relatively vanilla game for my first one since I would rather just be straight forward in my first attempt instead of coming up with a game which sways people against any game I may try in the future.

I definitely appreciate all of the input.

st.cronin · 09-22-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

A few ideas which I had include:

Not a no reveal upon death exactly but something where there are plenty of clues given, just not spelled out with the "PurdueBrad was the xxxxxxxx" statement (oh wait, if I am running it I can't vote to lynch PB...

).

I used a mechanic in one game where the role was revealed only to certain player(s).

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Not sure if this item has been introduced but I had an idea of a mask which can be used to disguise oneself as as someone different (a way to maybe "trick" the wolves into not finding their target if it ends up being you with the risk being if you disguise yourself as their target for the night).

Alan T used something like that in his Tombstone game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Very unsure about this one but no roles being sent out upon the start of the game (something along the lines of being exposed to some sort of bacteria and it may or may not affect everyone or may have affected some already). I have been having a rugh time trying to balance that one out (I would be interested to see how day one plays out with there being no true "wolves" yet but no-one knowing that).

Neon did something similar with an alpha wolf picking his team night 1, but it was spelled out in the rules what was going on.

claphamsa · 09-22-2008, 08:14 PM

I do think we need more 3 party gaems....

Barkeep49 · 09-22-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

My army/navy game has been streamlined a lot. There should be NO randomness at all in the final rule set.

Randomness gets a bad rap. One of my least favorite games ever had no randomness, or nearly none. Spawn has plenty of randomness and people seem to like it just fine. This is why I talk about meaningful choices so frequently. Randomness can take away from meaningful choices, but there are plenty of nonrandom ways to take that away as well.

Abe Sargent · 09-22-2008, 09:20 PM

I dislike it when people take things personally.

saldana · 09-22-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

A few ideas which I had include:

Not a no reveal upon death exactly but something where there are plenty of clues given, just not spelled out with the "PurdueBrad was the xxxxxxxx" statement (oh wait, if I am running it I can't vote to lynch PB...

).

i did something like this in the Sith game....it was clear which side a player was on when they died, but I left clues in the write up about what their role may have been....it didnt work real well...people spent too much time trying to figure out what the message I was sending with the color of the dead guys lightsaber was.

The Jackal · 09-23-2008, 12:03 PM

I do like three team games, or at least having a role that is separate from the wolves/villagers like my Jack the Ripper over at TSW or even Loki to an extent from the Labyrinth game. One vs everyone can be a lot of fun.

TimGuru · 09-23-2008, 11:47 PM

I never played here but I played often elsewhere and I dislike the following:

-as someone said, people who take it personally.
-no randomness. I think the possible roles and rules need to be defined before play begins, but the possibility should exist that not all elements will necessarily be included
-forced roleplay. I don't mind theme games but I don't like it when the roleplaying gets in the way of the playing
-long deadlines. Keep it moving (within the reasonable limits of real life and time zones).
-Day 1. The circular logic that no-talkers and over-talkers are all wolves. The pouncing on one-off statements.

I don't know if either the first or third thing are ever problems here.

Things I do like:
-interesting doctor mechanics. I've played some games where the ww's victim was in a "coma" if saved by the doc, and couldn't vote for a day. Then, they either died at nightfall or made a recovery and could possibly identify their attacker.
-multiple packs. Not every game, but sometimes its fun when the wolves are at each other's throats
-dogpiles! I think the dogpile mechanic (aka bandwagoning) is a good way to find out who's who, who's jittery and who is a stone cold townie.
-limited private communication allowed. The most fun games I've played in have had intrigue via PMs that led to traps, double crosses and all out hilarity.

I'm going to start lurking y'all's games here now that I know they're here (I'm in the FOOL baseball league) and might join one eventually.

The Jackal · 09-24-2008, 12:54 AM

hop on in tim

st.cronin · 09-24-2008, 12:59 AM

dogpile mechanic?

EagleFan · 10-21-2008, 04:16 AM

I have a new number one... Posession

The Jackal · 10-21-2008, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I have a new number one... Posession

I do what I want.

Schmidty · 10-21-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I have a new number one... Posession

That mechanic was broken beyond all belief (no offense hoops).

Narcizo · 10-21-2008, 02:56 PM

I don't really get the big deal. How is it worse than being killed from a personnel viewpoint?

The Jackal · 10-21-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmidty

That mechanic was broken beyond all belief (no offense hoops).

I had to spend a lot of energy to be successful, bodies deteriorated every day, and I'm sure any character with an ounce of telepathic ability would've been able to repel me. I had to pick pretty carefully whom to possess.

EagleFan · 10-21-2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I don't really get the big deal. How is it worse than being killed from a personnel viewpoint?

Because you're not killed. Instead you are have to keep up with the thread as with the potential chance of being back in the game which ends up being wasted time if you don't ever get back in the game. You already have to worry about justifying your own actions when you are in the gae and now you add in worrying about tyring to convince the rest that you had nothing to do with the last X number of days.

If your character is killed there is finality.

EagleFan · 10-21-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I had to spend a lot of energy to be successful, bodies deteriorated every day, and I'm sure any character with an ounce of telepathic ability would've been able to repel me. I had to pick pretty carefully whom to possess.

You had to spend a lot of energy, then you really got hosed when you posessed my char. At least I can feel good about that.

Tyrith · 10-21-2008, 06:07 PM

It didn't seem to bother Danny nearly this much, and he was both more invested and left in waiting longer than you were :P

The Hulk thing, though, was annoying, and I didn't like how it happened, but it was legal within the game -- wasn't going to meddle with it, as hoops and I were already forced to meddle quite a bit.

Buccaneer · 10-28-2008, 08:05 PM

I get PM's once in a while asking to join (or at least follow along) a new game. One of the main reasons that I don't is that I just do not relate to the some of the subject matters you guys regularly choose. In other words, I have no interest in comics/superheroes, sci fi or some other fantasy based theme (what are Highlander, Spawn or Age of something?). I know you guys love those genres and they do make good WW games but most of the time, I have never heard of the theme and therefore, can't participate or follow. The last one I did follow was the great political one, since that is grounded in (semi-)reality.

The other reason is that it would be hard for me to participate if I am only around a couple of hours in the evening.

Hannibal Lecter · 10-28-2008, 08:09 PM

My dear Buccaneer, you can play even if you are not as well versed in all manners such as I. It does affect the enjoyment factor somewhat, but when it gets down to it we are all trying to win the game, and the basics are all there.

09-20-2008, 01:10 PM	#4
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	The thing that gets me the worst is not knowing win conditions.... especially when you have 3rd parties or other odd roles (like the seer in highlander) __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

09-20-2008, 01:30 PM	#5
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	No reveals on death __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

09-20-2008, 08:27 PM	#8
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	i have always disliked the Witness role unless it is set up to have a chance at not working. It is basically a free kill for the village, and usually boils down to a He Said He Said situation where the witness and the wolf square off and it just becomes a pissing match Last edited by saldana : 09-20-2008 at 08:27 PM.

09-21-2008, 08:42 AM	#11
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Because as much of a pain in the ass that you are, i really do enjoy having you in games =) __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

09-21-2008, 11:49 AM	#12
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	There are ways to do limited or no reveals, but it's really tough to do effectively. My biggest dislike is along the lines of what BK and clap said -- unclear objectives and/or hidden rules that prevent the players from understanding what they're trying to accomplish. I hate flailing around not knowing what is or isn't going to work in a game ruleset. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

09-20-2008, 12:13 PM	#2
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	dola: Wanted to add that I know that not any game may be perfect and someone will dislike something about any possible game. Just wanted to at least find out if there are things that are tops on most people's list and try to avoid that.

09-20-2008, 12:13 PM	#3
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Great topic. I hate choices where I have no way of assessing the advantages or disadvantages of that choice. I hate having "surprise rules". That is there can be surprises, and surprises can be fun, but it needs to fit in the framework of the rules, not be outside of it. So someone in a game of Hoops having a surprising or unknown power? Pretty cool. Someone who can radically change the written rules? Normally annoying.

09-20-2008, 10:17 PM	#9
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I will never play in a game where roles arent revealed on death.

09-21-2008, 12:36 PM	#13
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	I'm not a veteran but EF I hope you don't mind me chiming in. I really enjoy the games where there are choices. It keeps me even more engaged and I do like having to debate the value of those choices. The games that particularly stand out for me (and no offense meant if I'm forgetting yours) were the Cruise Ship game, the Blade game, and the labyrinth (both with movements and then the random events). I can honestly say that there hasn't been a game or even a mechanic that I disliked. I believe it was Render's game where somebody was able to call an early deadline, hence taking me out of commission for a day as punishment but I actually even enjoyed that dynamic as it made things quite unpredictable.

09-21-2008, 01:38 PM	#14
Lorena Unregistered Join Date: May 2004	An amulet a wolf can use to show up as a villager when scanned.

09-21-2008, 03:18 PM	#16
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	I'm not sure that I see the amulet thing being much different than a cunning wolf. Just with an item-oriented game moreso than a role-oriented game. Now if it wasn't listed in the rules (either amulet or cunning wolf not listed in the rules), then yeah that would be annoying. I would think an amulet that could be passed around might be slightly overpowered and annoying too... An amulet by itself though just seems like a cunning wolf to me though. (I don't remember who's game used that mechanic) __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

09-21-2008, 08:58 PM	#17
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	well if you have rules in a game, and they change during a game, they better mean something and not just be flavor or you are going to have a lot of annoyed players at the end of the game. (except perhaps Path. ) I agree about the no reveals on death being a game I'm unlikely to play in. Unless there's a player(s) who get information, or conditions where the roles will be revealed at some point and known to the players beforehand.

09-22-2008, 02:15 AM	#18
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I tend to dislike games which are overly complex, and/or use many random elements throughout the game. For example, a bodyguard that has a 25% chance of failing, and a 15% chance of identifying the attacker - I hate those sorts of things. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

09-22-2008, 02:18 AM	#19
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	Games being too much about cunning gameplay mechanics and, thus, winding up not really being werewolf at all. I think the main elements of werewolf should be about the villagers pooling their thoughts to lynch the wolves and the wolves trying to disguise themselves so that doesn't work whilst killing off the villagers. Agree about pure non-reveal games, but I think there's plenty of room to have limited reveal or whatever. Oh and what Cronin said about random elements being too predominant. In my opinion random elements just make a game harder to balance. Last edited by Narcizo : 09-22-2008 at 03:08 AM.

09-22-2008, 10:33 AM	#21
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	I hate not having the time to play. I also hate games with items. I abhor them. __________________ Come and see.

09-22-2008, 11:27 AM	#22
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Hate items? Boo! I think there have been several fun games with items. However, this is another one of those cases where they should be spelled out in the rules. Having surprise powers come from unknown items doesn't really allow you to plan as a player.

09-22-2008, 12:33 PM	#23
Lorena Unregistered Join Date: May 2004	There was a game I played where a ww was scanned and showed up as a villager. Don't remember the game, but I was frustrated because it wasn't in the rules.

09-22-2008, 12:59 PM	#24
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	My labyrinth game was a total experiment and I apologize to those of you who may have been frustrated with the lack of known rules before the game started, but I was in no way working randomly. I see some positives in hidden information, but I agree that one thing that would always bug me is if there is a conversion possibility and it isn't listed in the rules. That being said, if I end up running a sequel to the Labyrinth game, the roles and rules will be etched in stone now that I see where it went.

09-22-2008, 02:36 PM	#26
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I hate being converted, but I don't hate having that rule in a game every once in awhile. I hate the witness role as a one-off wolf catcher. I think it is possible to implement it fairly. I generally look to minimize randomness in my games, although I don't think random = bad. For example, in Path's "everyone is a seer" games, I think the random elements worked pretty well in creating a fun game. I like seeing people put out rulesets that challenge the existing concepts, even if they flame out every once in awhile. I hope that people don't read this thread and become so conservative with their games that we end up playing whatever version of WW is deemed "least offensive" by the majority. Good luck with your game, EagleFan. Hope you have fun creating it and running it.

09-22-2008, 07:44 PM	#29
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	My army/navy game has been streamlined a lot. There should be NO randomness at all in the final rule set. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

09-22-2008, 07:45 PM	#30
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I agree with hoopsguy that innovation on any of these fronts is possible. Just proceed with caution. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

09-22-2008, 08:03 PM	#31
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	A few ideas which I had include: Not a no reveal upon death exactly but something where there are plenty of clues given, just not spelled out with the "PurdueBrad was the xxxxxxxx" statement (oh wait, if I am running it I can't vote to lynch PB... ). Not sure if this item has been introduced but I had an idea of a mask which can be used to disguise oneself as as someone different (a way to maybe "trick" the wolves into not finding their target if it ends up being you with the risk being if you disguise yourself as their target for the night). Very unsure about this one but no roles being sent out upon the start of the game (something along the lines of being exposed to some sort of bacteria and it may or may not affect everyone or may have affected some already). I have been having a rugh time trying to balance that one out (I would be interested to see how day one plays out with there being no true "wolves" yet but no-one knowing that). Not a set convert but maybe an option to allow the wolves to convert someone at some point which leaves anyone up for conversion (including roled players). This one is also one that I need to figure out a balance for but it does add to the strategy a little (like the wolves not doing a night kill to make the villagers think the convert happened and hopefully lure a roled player into a reveal). There is also the idea of three teams (werewolves, vampires and villager- or something along that line). With all this said I will probably end up doing a relatively vanilla game for my first one since I would rather just be straight forward in my first attempt instead of coming up with a game which sways people against any game I may try in the future. I definitely appreciate all of the input.

09-22-2008, 08:14 PM	#33
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	I do think we need more 3 party gaems.... __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

09-22-2008, 09:20 PM	#35
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	I dislike it when people take things personally. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

09-23-2008, 12:03 PM	#37
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I do like three team games, or at least having a role that is separate from the wolves/villagers like my Jack the Ripper over at TSW or even Loki to an extent from the Labyrinth game. One vs everyone can be a lot of fun.

09-23-2008, 11:47 PM	#38
TimGuru High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cape Cod, MA	I never played here but I played often elsewhere and I dislike the following: -as someone said, people who take it personally. -no randomness. I think the possible roles and rules need to be defined before play begins, but the possibility should exist that not all elements will necessarily be included -forced roleplay. I don't mind theme games but I don't like it when the roleplaying gets in the way of the playing -long deadlines. Keep it moving (within the reasonable limits of real life and time zones). -Day 1. The circular logic that no-talkers and over-talkers are all wolves. The pouncing on one-off statements. I don't know if either the first or third thing are ever problems here. Things I do like: -interesting doctor mechanics. I've played some games where the ww's victim was in a "coma" if saved by the doc, and couldn't vote for a day. Then, they either died at nightfall or made a recovery and could possibly identify their attacker. -multiple packs. Not every game, but sometimes its fun when the wolves are at each other's throats -dogpiles! I think the dogpile mechanic (aka bandwagoning) is a good way to find out who's who, who's jittery and who is a stone cold townie. -limited private communication allowed. The most fun games I've played in have had intrigue via PMs that led to traps, double crosses and all out hilarity. I'm going to start lurking y'all's games here now that I know they're here (I'm in the FOOL baseball league) and might join one eventually.

09-24-2008, 12:54 AM	#39
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	hop on in tim

09-24-2008, 12:59 AM	#40
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	dogpile mechanic? __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

10-21-2008, 04:16 AM	#41
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	I have a new number one... Posession

10-21-2008, 02:56 PM	#44
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	I don't really get the big deal. How is it worse than being killed from a personnel viewpoint?

10-21-2008, 06:07 PM	#48
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	It didn't seem to bother Danny nearly this much, and he was both more invested and left in waiting longer than you were :P The Hulk thing, though, was annoying, and I didn't like how it happened, but it was legal within the game -- wasn't going to meddle with it, as hoops and I were already forced to meddle quite a bit.

10-28-2008, 08:05 PM	#49
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I get PM's once in a while asking to join (or at least follow along) a new game. One of the main reasons that I don't is that I just do not relate to the some of the subject matters you guys regularly choose. In other words, I have no interest in comics/superheroes, sci fi or some other fantasy based theme (what are Highlander, Spawn or Age of something?). I know you guys love those genres and they do make good WW games but most of the time, I have never heard of the theme and therefore, can't participate or follow. The last one I did follow was the great political one, since that is grounded in (semi-)reality. The other reason is that it would be hard for me to participate if I am only around a couple of hours in the evening.

10-28-2008, 08:09 PM	#50
Hannibal Lecter High School JV Join Date: Oct 2008	My dear Buccaneer, you can play even if you are not as well versed in all manners such as I. It does affect the enjoyment factor somewhat, but when it gets down to it we are all trying to win the game, and the basics are all there.

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