12 year old in Florida on trial for 1st degree murder

[Young Drachma]

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/cristian-fernandez (Here's the coverage with lots of background from the Jacksonville paper)

Here's the synopsis:

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Prosecutors and defense attorneys asked a judge Wednesday for another few weeks to work out a plea agreement for the youngest person in the history of Duval County to be charged with first-degree murder.
Investigators say 12-year-old Cristian Fernandez beat his 2-year-old half brother to death.
Fernandez was in court for less than two minutes at Wednesday morning's pretrial hearing. The judge set a date for his next hearing to be Oct. 31.
Meanwhile, a New Hampshire woman has started an online petition, hoping to get Fernandez's case back into the juvenile court system.
So far, she's collected about 114,000 signatures on the petition.
The state attorney or a grand jury would have to agree to charge Fernandez as a juvenile rather than as an adult.
If convicted as a juvenile, his sentence would be considerably shorter than if he were convicted as an adult.

Lots of folks in the comments -- using their real FB names no less -- seem content defending prosecuting a pre-teen as an adult. Seems brazen to me, even if you believed that with all your heart.

Thoughts on prosecuting a 12 year old for murder as an adult?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Seems perfectly reasonable to me, based on what's in article. Frankly I didn't need to see much more than his background of killing animals & sexually abusing his brother.

Tried as an adult? Hell, I wouldn't bat an eyelash if they'd sought the death penalty.

[RainMaker]

As with these threads, you didn't need to add the Florida part. We all would have figured that out on its own.

[molson]

The juvi system doesn't protect society enough and the adult system isn't equipped for people that young. So both options kind of suck.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Seems perfectly reasonable to me, based on what's in article. Frankly I didn't need to see much more than his background of killing animals & sexually abusing his brother.

Tried as an adult? Hell, I wouldn't bat an eyelash if they'd sought the death penalty.

Color me shocked that you feel that way.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

The juvi system doesn't protect society enough and the adult system isn't equipped for people that young. So both options kind of suck.

Yep. Do I think he should be in general population with adult scumbags? No. Do I think this piece of shit should be out at 18? Nope. I would rather error on the side of him never seeing the light of day than 6 years.

Westside Middle School massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[miked]

Well, if I'm reading this correctly, he was born to his mother when she was 12 (most likely some back stories there), been in foster care, been abused by his mom's husband who subsequently shot himself when they were coming to arrest him, and the mom wasn't really there much. While I would normally agree with Jon and his absolutism when it comes to violent crime, it would seem that there are some quite extreme factors in play that would suggest the 12 year old boy needs a lot more help than the Florida prison system would give. Also, I think there are some issues with trying people with a reduced mental capacity (i.e. extreme minors) with 1st degree murder.

With all these issues at play, I'm surprised the prosecutors felt so strongly about going with 1st degree murder as an adult. Seems like with the family history of abuse and trauma, it would easily get tossed/reduced during the trial.

[Schmidty]

I think it's ludicrous. His upbringing and the fact that his brain isn't fully developed (possibly going through puberty) tells me that his mind definitely wasn't in the same place an adult's would have been.

He should go to juvi, and then when he's released at 18, he should be on parole for years, but to try him as an adult is insane.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

He should go to juvi, and then when he's released at 18, he should be on parole for years, but to try him as an adult is insane.

That's the tricky part, a juvi court doesn't have the authority to keep him on parole years into adulthood.

[DanGarion]

How about this, sentence him for life as well as his parents.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Color me shocked that you feel that way.

-5 points for not riffing off of RainMaker's quote:

"As with these threads, you didn't need to add the JonInMiddleGA part. We all would have figured that out on its own."

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by molson

The juvi system doesn't protect society enough and the adult system isn't equipped for people that young. So both options kind of suck.

So take the best of the evils, and send him to big boy prison. Juvenile system will do nothing more than create a better criminal so when he gets out at 18, he'll just be hitting his prime.

[molson]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

So take the best of the evils, and send him to big boy prison. Juvenile system will do nothing more than create a better criminal so when he gets out at 18, he'll just be hitting his prime.

The adult system does give the justice system more options. It's not as if being tried as adult means you automatically get treated and sentenced as a 35-year old career criminal. In the adult system, a 12 year old murderer could get say, a 20 year sentence, with parole eligibility after 8 years. The parole board could be looking for a GED, child therapy, etc, before they consider release. And he could be housed with other violent-offender juveniles, and he could take part in juvenile rehabilitation programming. (Edit: the phrase "being tried as an adult" is kind of a loaded way of putting it - it's the default system, they can certainly treat him like a kid still in the "adult court").

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I think it's ludicrous. His upbringing and the fact that his brain isn't fully developed (possibly going through puberty) tells me that his mind definitely wasn't in the same place an adult's would have been.

He should go to juvi, and then when he's released at 18, he should be on parole for years, but to try him as an adult is insane.

I feel bad that he was effectively never given a chance due to the fucked up circumstances surrounding him, but I also think he's a near-lock to abuse or kill somebody if/once released. So while I wish it wasn't necessary, and abhor the conditions that led to it, I do support locking him up for life.

[Kodos]

I agree. Lock him up for life. Can't risk him killing again.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I agree. Lock him up for life. Can't risk him killing again.

+1

[Ksyrup]

Isn't Jacksonville where there was another really big "young kid charged with murder" case years ago? All I remember is a big kid who killed a neighbor and stuffed him/her under a water bed or something like that?

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by miked

Well, if I'm reading this correctly, he was born to his mother when she was 12 (most likely some back stories there), been in foster care, been abused by his mom's husband who subsequently shot himself when they were coming to arrest him, and the mom wasn't really there much. While I would normally agree with Jon and his absolutism when it comes to violent crime, it would seem that there are some quite extreme factors in play that would suggest the 12 year old boy needs a lot more help than the Florida prison system would give. Also, I think there are some issues with trying people with a reduced mental capacity (i.e. extreme minors) with 1st degree murder.

With all these issues at play, I'm surprised the prosecutors felt so strongly about going with 1st degree murder as an adult. Seems like with the family history of abuse and trauma, it would easily get tossed/reduced during the trial.

good info. HOw about....THe Asylum for the lad. Then he could become a batman villain.

[AENeuman]

have a friend who runs an alternative program for the most at risk children in the bay area. he says there is a limit of what a child can heal from. for those too far gone (mostly those who were in forced prostitution before the age of 7) there is the expectation and acceptance that they will be dead or in jail by 18.

fyi, there is a great documentary on the good and bad of Jacksonville justice system called Murder on a Sunday morning. Brenton Butler case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia