10th Anniversary

[Dutch]

God Bless America.

[JPhillips]

I know the odds are low that anything will happen, but I'll be happy if we can get through today without any new attacks. If you're out and about, keep your eyes open.

[spleen1015]

One of my biggest fears has always been that these fuckers would attack us on a football Sunday, synchronizing attacks at all of the stadiums.

[Thomkal]

Unfortunately more Americans were attacked this weekend, not in this country, but in Afghanistan:


77 Americans Wounded in Afghan Truck Bombing - ABC News

[CU Tiger]

May eternity be brutal and tortuous for all involved in perpetrating the acts of 10 years ago.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

We're still here... stronger and more knowledgeable than before.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My take, for those who are interested
10 Years Later | Jon's Three Cents

[Kodos]

I'll breathe a little easier when we make it through the day with no events.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

My take, for those who are interested
10 Years Later | Jon's Three Cents

Great read.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Subby

Great read.

Well damn Subby, I'm ... well, honored.

Thanks.

[Groundhog]

I'm with Subs. I've unintentionally missed much of the 9/11 stuff on TV/the news due to having a billion things on, but that was an excellent read, especially re: Rescorla.

[ISiddiqui]

Interestingly enough, the Revised Common Lectionary for Sunday had Bible texts all on forgiveness (for those that don't know the RCL picks lectionary of readings for each Sunday based on a three year cycle, all of which was put in place back in 1994 - so this wasn't planned based on a 9/11 anniversary date or anything). I think that will we mourn for the dead, we should do as Jesus did and forgive those who may have been our enemies then, as hard as that may be.

Though I will likely needs God's help on that.

[JPhillips]

Our Presbyterian service was also on forgiveness, although it was doubly appropriate given the anger in our congregation around the resignation of our pastor.

Andrew Sullivan posted this statement from a monk that was killed by Algerian rebels in the 1990s.

My life is not worth more than any other—not less, not more. Nor am I an innocent child. I have lived long enough to know that I, too, am an accomplice of the evil that seems to prevail in the world around, even that which might lash out blindly at me. If the moment comes, I would hope to have the presence of mind, and the time, to ask for God’s pardon and for that of my fellowman, and, at the same time, to pardon in all sincerity he who would attack me.

Powerful and profoundly difficult for me to live up to.

[DaddyTorgo]

I intentionally missed pretty much all of it (except for like a minute on the radio). Which was nice, because it's a pretty...heavy thing, and while it's not like I want to forget about it or anything, I don't feel the need to be bludgeoned over the head with it on an anniversary date.

This is going to come off sounding douchey I'm sure, and I'm sure I'll be ripped for it, but I feel like it's...overdone (not the best word). CAVEAT: OBVIOUSLY NONE OF THIS APPLIES IF YOU LOST A FAMILY MEMBER/FRIEND/WHATEVER THAT DAY/IF YOU WERE DIRECTLY AFFECTED.

(FYI - I don't live in NYC, but I do live in Boston, and people here in my small town were on the Boston flight that was used. Families lost fathers/mothers. So I'm not totally isolated from it. The damn hotel is maybe 15 minutes away from here).

I feel like now, 10 years later, the rest of us should be past having to like...make the entire day a rememberence. Not sure we needed something at EVERY football game, on EVERY radio station (why were the guys on my sports radio station talking nonstop about it when I got into the car on Sunday instead of talking about the NFL games?), on EVERYBODY's facebook status, etc. I guess 10 years is one of those "milestone anniversaries" though - I didn't notice the same thing last year, so hopefully we're to the point now where it'll crop up only on "milestone anniversary" type dates.

I get that it was a shocking event and everything, but at some point, by over-memorializing it don't we just play into the terrorists' hands -- by letting them see that they've had an effect on us? Wouldn't it be better to be more understated and subdued about the whole thing?

Commence ripping on me.

To avoid getting boxed I'm going to consciously not respond to posts ripping on me (particularly as I can guess who the first handful of them are likely to be by), but if folks want to have an intellectual conversation about this, I'm open to that.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I feel like now, 10 years later, the rest of us should be past having to like...make the entire day a rememberence.

I am not going to rip you or anything, but I think I am going to politely disagree here. For our generation, this is our Pearl Harbor. We all grew up with people who paid some form of respect on December 7th every year, 50+ years after it occurred. Perhaps I am a little biased since I lost a co-worker on one of the flights, but from trying to be as objective as possible, this is one of two horrific events that I can recall in my life seeing live as it occured on television. (9-11 and the Challenger explosion). I still vividly remember where I was when it happened, who I was in a conference room with at work, I vividly remember getting the phone call from my ex-wife, and the conversation. I remember what we did at work, cancelling the rest of the meeting and going to turn on CNN.. I remember so much about that day and that makes it much different than honestly any other day in my life.

Yesterday was tough for me, all of the coverage was painful for me to think back to that day and the feelings that I had, but I think it is important to keep remembering, and to honor those who died that day, especially those who bravely gave their lives trying to save others.

So I have no problem with them honoring those people at every football game, every radio station, or wherever they feel is appropriate on that day. It was far more important in our lives than any football game ever will be.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I am not going to rip you or anything, but I think I am going to politely disagree here. For our generation, this is our Pearl Harbor. We all grew up with people who paid some form of respect on December 7th every year, 50+ years after it occurred. Perhaps I am a little biased since I lost a co-worker on one of the flights, but from trying to be as objective as possible, this is one of two horrific events that I can recall in my life seeing live as it occured on television. (9-11 and the Challenger explosion). I still vividly remember where I was when it happened, who I was in a conference room with at work, I vividly remember getting the phone call from my ex-wife, and the conversation. I remember what we did at work, cancelling the rest of the meeting and going to turn on CNN.. I remember so much about that day and that makes it much different than honestly any other day in my life.

Yesterday was tough for me, all of the coverage was painful for me to think back to that day and the feelings that I had, but I think it is important to keep remembering, and to honor those who died that day, especially those who bravely gave their lives trying to save others.

So I have no problem with them honoring those people at every football game, every radio station, or wherever they feel is appropriate on that day. It was far more important in our lives than any football game ever will be.

Fair enough.

Maybe it's just my reaction to the overt like...spectacle that was made out of the honoring of them. Seemed a bit over the top maybe? I dunno.

Or maybe I was just crabby yesterday.

[Ksyrup]

FWIW, DT, I pretty much agree with you.

I've been wrestling with this for the past couple of weeks as the onslaught of media built and built about this. I had typed up a big post in the other thread about it, but deleted it when I didn't feel like going down this path because people would misinterpret my feelings about it and get pissed. But yeah, you're not alone.

[Logan]

No, you probably are just like me and get a bit of a chuckle (probably not the best word to use in light of these particular events) when you know who is pulling off a grandstanding, "look at me" type message in the event or remembrance of any tragedy. Those people have their own issues.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I am not going to rip you or anything, but I think I am going to politely disagree here. For our generation, this is our Pearl Harbor. We all grew up with people who paid some form of respect on December 7th every year, 50+ years after it occurred. Perhaps I am a little biased since I lost a co-worker on one of the flights, but from trying to be as objective as possible, this is one of two horrific events that I can recall in my life seeing live as it occured on television. (9-11 and the Challenger explosion). I still vividly remember where I was when it happened, who I was in a conference room with at work, I vividly remember getting the phone call from my ex-wife, and the conversation. I remember what we did at work, cancelling the rest of the meeting and going to turn on CNN.. I remember so much about that day and that makes it much different than honestly any other day in my life.

Yesterday was tough for me, all of the coverage was painful for me to think back to that day and the feelings that I had, but I think it is important to keep remembering, and to honor those who died that day, especially those who bravely gave their lives trying to save others.

So I have no problem with them honoring those people at every football game, every radio station, or wherever they feel is appropriate on that day. It was far more important in our lives than any football game ever will be.

The day has been turned into a rallying cry more than anything. It should be remembered but in my opinion, solemnly. Not with a bunch of hoopla where we send planes flying across the sky, unfurl flags, etc. with the idea that somehow this has made us stronger. Because in my opinion, it ultimately bankrupted us and divided us pretty deep.

[Rizon]

I spent the day doing housework, going to a seafood festival, reading a book for school, and hanging out with friends in my neighbor's garage across the street playing with kittens, kids, remote control cars and watching football.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by rowech

The day has been turned into a rallying cry more than anything. It should be remembered but in my opinion, solemnly. Not with a bunch of hoopla where we send planes flying across the sky, unfurl flags, etc. with the idea that somehow this has made us stronger. Because in my opinion, it ultimately bankrupted us and divided us pretty deep.

Yeah. And has led to the deaths of a lot of soldiers and civillians in foreign lands too (orders of magnitude more than died here -- not that that makes it any better/worse, but just to anticipate the "well they killed our civillians first!" thing). Not to mention like you said - these two ridiculously expensive foreign wars that have made our financial situation much much worse.

[thesloppy]

Like a lot of y'all I had trouble separating the reality from the spectacle yesterday. Perhaps most confusing aspect for me was how much of it involved advertising. Seeing the images of 9/11, and the faces of fans and fire/police departments is heart-moving and sincere....trying to balance that, and filter out the real emotions, while also being fed repeated calculated commercial messages that seemed more exploitative than sincere, seems like a particularly American challenge.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Like a lot of y'all I had trouble separating the reality from the spectacle yesterday. Perhaps most confusing aspect for me was how much of it involved advertising. Seeing the images of 9/11, and the faces of fans and fire/police departments is heart-moving and sincere....trying to balance that, and filter out the real emotions, while also being fed repeated calculated commercial messages that seemed more exploitative than sincere, seems like a particularly American challenge.

This was my take from a day full of football watching yesterday. The adverts ranged from pretty obviously tasteless to not so bad, but overall it just doesn't seem right anyone trying to make money off something like this. If you really, really want to express those sentiments don't attach your company name to it. Maybe that is incredibly naive or stupid given how much these prime time Sunday spots cost, but it just didn't feel right to me.

[JediKooter]

All I have to say...in a way, Bin Laden and his cohorts have won. We've raped the constitution in the name of 'security' (Patriot Act) and have two money pits in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nothing really to feel all that patriotic about. Can't really say we are better off today or more secure, than we were on September 10, 2001. And for those reasons, that is why I feel that we lost.

I feel sorrow for the ones that died 10 years ago and for their family and friends, but, I am disgusted at what our elected officials have done to our constitution in those 10 years.

I'm a firm believer in this quote by Benjamin Franklin: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety".

Sorry, not trying to piss on anyone's parade, but, after seeing and hearing all the commercial garbage yesterday and the weeks prior to it, it raised my vomit level beyond acceptable limits.

[SportsDino]

I personally think it is an insult to the people who died at 9/11 to have two wars just to funnel money into the hands of special interests.

They should have took a lot of hardware, leveled a part of Afghanistan very thoroughly, killing Osama in the first few days, and came home. We would be far safer overall if they did, because all we have done is deplete strength and allow them enough breathing room to keep alive (or potentially grow).

Instead we should have had a foreign policy of ruthlessly destroying any terrorist we got intel on and conserve our strength for internal security and viciously killing real threats to the country.

[DaddyTorgo]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with these feelings. It can feel like it sometimes, ya know?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I'm a firm believer in this quote by Benjamin Franklin: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety".

And I'm a firm believer that Franklin would have been better served to stick to flying kites because quotes taken out of time & place make him look like a damned fool.

[JPhillips]

psst. You my want to look at your signature.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I'm a firm believer in this quote by Benjamin Franklin: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety".

I don't disagree with the rest of what you said at all but this quote is such a gross simplification. We give up a little liberty for a little security in all kinds of ways, and all but the most militant anti-government anarchists are OK with that.

We have police officers and give them power to arrest, we have laws about what kinds of guns we can carry and what type of regulations we need to do it, we have environmental laws to protect us from pollution, most are in favor of SOME kind of airport security - even if it's just a metal detector, we have 50 state criminal codes and an entire federal code filled with stuff we're not allowed to do in the same of public safety.....it's just a balancing test at the end of the day, and we're all at different points along that scale - we have different ideas of what liberties are "essential", and different ideas of which liberties are worth scaling back on a bit to promote safety. To just throw out that quote and pretend it supports YOUR (or anyone's) particular place on that scale is a little cheap, IMO.

Edit: And it's interesting too that this has become more of a liberal rallying cry when I'm pretty sure it used to be a more conservative one......Shouldn't that Ben Franklin quote be an NRA slogan? It's just the type of liberty that's important to people is all. Some people feel strongly about gun rights, others feel strongly about going through airport security without having to take their shoes off. Others may find one, both or neither of those an essential liberty at all.

[molson]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

It's actually huge with libertarians. Liberals are just as big brother/big government as neocons are.

Agreed, and of course these days, you have a lot of Republicans who like to pretend they're libertarians, so the whole thing got really confusing at some point.

[Karlifornia]

How dare you, JonInMiddleGa, use the lives of those that were lost to give credence to the insane idea that progressives were to blame for 9/11. That is sad and ridiculous. You and Michelle Malkin are both sad and ridiculous.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

How dare you, JonInMiddleGa, use the lives of those that were lost to give credence to the insane idea that progressives were to blame for 9/11. That is sad and ridiculous. You and Michelle Malkin are both sad and ridiculous.

Ah yes, now things can start to get back to normal.

Your lack of reading comprehension is one of those constants in life, right up there with death, taxes, and spotty internet service from BellSouth.

The point isn't so much about 9/11, it's about responsibility for the next 9/11.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And I'm a firm believer that Franklin would have been better served to stick to flying kites because quotes taken out of time & place make him look like a damned fool.

Taken in the context of the Patriot Act, it makes a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by molson

I don't disagree with the rest of what you said at all but this quote is such a gross simplification. We give up a little liberty for a little security in all kinds of ways, and all but the most militant anti-government anarchists are OK with that.

We have police officers and give them power to arrest, we have laws about what kinds of guns we can carry and what type of regulations we need to do it, we have environmental laws to protect us from pollution, most are in favor of SOME kind of airport security - even if it's just a metal detector, we have 50 state criminal codes and an entire federal code filled with stuff we're not allowed to do in the same of public safety.....it's just a balancing test at the end of the day, and we're all at different points along that scale - we have different ideas of what liberties are "essential", and different ideas of which liberties are worth scaling back on a bit to promote safety. To just throw out that quote and pretend it supports YOUR (or anyone's) particular place on that scale is a little cheap, IMO.

Edit: And it's interesting too that this has become more of a liberal rallying cry when I'm pretty sure it used to be a more conservative one......Shouldn't that Ben Franklin quote be an NRA slogan? It's just the type of liberty that's important to people is all. Some people feel strongly about gun rights, others feel strongly about going through airport security without having to take their shoes off. Others may find one, both or neither of those an essential liberty at all.

I understand what you are saying, but, that's not what I'm talking about. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about gun control, environmental laws, etc. I'm specifically addressing the Patriot Act.

The point is, as simplistic and short as the quote from Franklin is, he's right. You can't let fear dictate our freedom. You can't let fear usurp our constitution. There's common sense and there's knee jerk reactions caused by fear. One usually works better than the other. This is where the country was supposed to rise up above the level of the garbage that is Al Qaida, instead, we fell flat on our faces like Mary Decker Slaney.

I don't expect everyone or anyone to agree with me. We all come from different backgrounds and ideologies, so it can be hard to understand what someone is trying to convey at times. The constitution is one hell of a good document and a recipe for success. Is it perfect? No, but, lets not make it worse because of some assholes that hate America. That's playing right into their hands in my opinion.