The Trump Presidency – 2016

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Yay more taxes.

On June 10th, the United States will impose a 5% Tariff on all goods coming into our Country from Mexico, until such time as illegal migrants coming through Mexico, and into our Country, STOP. The Tariff will gradually increase until the Illegal Immigration problem is remedied,..

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 30, 2019

Does he think he's writing a telegram?

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I think a lot of it depends upon their prospect of remaining in power. If there is an heir apparent, I think they would be quick to bail. I do not understand why so many Republicans are married to Trump because he is not a dyed in the wool Republican.

Because for most, if they were to turn on him, they lose half their base that supports him no matter what. Kiss re-election goodbye.

[Edward64]

Better stock up on the Corona's.

https://www.cnn.com/business/live-ne...87f354c74ecb32

Beer and liquor companies slid Friday on President Donald Trump's plan to slap tariffs on Mexican goods.

Constellation Brands (STZ), which owns Corona and Modelo Especial, lost 6%. Brown-Forman (BFB), the owner of El Jimador and Herradura tequila brands, was off 1%.

The United States imported $3.5 billion worth of beer from Mexico last year, according to the USDA. It was the top agricultural product imported from Mexico, ahead of avocados and tomatoes.

More than two-thirds of the beer that the United States imported in 2018 came from Mexico, up from around 35% two decades ago, according to the National Beer Wholesalers Association.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I think a lot of it depends upon their prospect of remaining in power. If there is an heir apparent, I think they would be quick to bail. I do not understand why so many Republicans are married to Trump because he is not a dyed in the wool Republican.

I think the elected republicans are worried/suspicious that their whole party has been a lie. “Real republicans” for 30 plus years stood and called for tax cuts, less government intrusion, pro business, banning abortion, protecting guns, and a smattering of moralism largely driven by the wanton ways of the left, which old voters disapproved of.

Now they realize that Trump has tapped into the juicy, seedy underbelly of their working coalition, and realize that much of their support just really comes because it panders to the fears and racism (all the isms, but racism first) of their “base.” Its a hard reality to face, it’s like the audience was never really clapping for you at all.

[Atocep]

I know Tarcone and a lot of republicans have a difficult time believing that fear and racism are the driving motivations for a sizable number of conservatives, but this video was the turning point for me beginning to understand what drives the GOP.

First, major props to McCain for setting his political wellbeing aside to try to correct these things. Second, we now have a people steering the GOP that are taking these fears and doing their best to validate them in voters minds. There is no both sides to this issue. You can watch this video and see why we are where we are today.

[Brian Swartz]

I'm not a republican and I don't agree with it either. A video like that demonstrates only that there are people who are that misinformed, it says nothing about how widespread the approach is. But basically, fear drives political action regardless of where it comes from and I don't think anyone has a monopoly on it. I do think there are more racists on the right but not by nearly as big a margin as is often suggested, partly because some irrationally define racism in a way that makes it impossible for minorities to be so.

Ultimately all this stuff is way overthinking Trumpism. A lot of people, going back to early in his campaign, have said they supported him while not agreeing with much of what he says. Polls have repeatedly shown this. What Jon said is why:

one of the few people aligned with the party to show any sign of actual balls in a long time. Don't underestimate the value of visible backbone, even to people who are lacking in that department.

Pretty much all of our previous presidents going back at least to Clinton were viewed as spineless by a significant number of people. Both parties. In general it seems to me that as a nation we are still terribly misdiagnosing the problem here, which means we don't have much chance of fixing it. Thinking Trumpism is an embrace of racism is missing the point - the issue is actually even worse than that.

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Is the idea that it's entirely the "other team's" responsibility to impeach a shitty president another recent example of modern bi-partisanship,

It's recent, but I do think if you listen to what at least elected people are saying, they don't actually make this argument - they say rather that Trump hasn't done anything to merit impeachment. The committee investigating Nixon was authorized on a 77-0 vote in the Senate, and the first two of three articles of impeachment against him got significant GOP support in the House Judiciary (over a third in favor). After more tapes were released by court order, it was estimated that more than 80% of both houses, including a majority of Republicans, were going to vote in favor of impeachment. So while there was certainly more resistance from Nixon's own party, it was also more clearly considered their duty to hold the President to account.

[tarcone]

Is impeachment a relatively new trend? Was Hoover impeached? Or coolidge? Or any of the other shitty presidents we have had? Or has our country become a big corporation country and the only thing these politicians can do is impeach the other guy?

[Brian Swartz]

It's happened more in the modern era, but even most modern presidents aren't impeached. Andrew Jackson was impeached - impeachment isn't about being a 'shitty president'. I'd say you are vastly overstating that perspective, to put it kindly. And I'd also say that constitutionally, far more people of various positions, not just presidents, should be impeached than are. The standards we have for our leaders aren't nearly high enough in some aspects, to our detriment.

[whomario]

"Well, we will be talking, we will be talking. I can say we have among the cleanest climate in the world right now. Our air and water are doing very well,"

The President of the United States, still having no idea what climate means. (never mind the fact that air pollution is on the rise in the US and his administration is hard at work making sure it gets worse)

[molson]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I know Tarcone and a lot of republicans have a difficult time believing that fear and racism are the driving motivations for a sizable number of conservatives, but this video was the turning point for me beginning to understand what drives the GOP.

First, major props to McCain for setting his political wellbeing aside to try to correct these things. Second, we now have a people steering the GOP that are taking these fears and doing their best to validate them in voters minds. There is no both sides to this issue. You can watch this video and see why we are where we are today.

When I see this video, I always think of Trump watching and saying, "why doesn't this idiot McCain just say what these people want to hear!"

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by whomario

"Well, we will be talking, we will be talking. I can say we have among the cleanest climate in the world right now. Our air and water are doing very well,"

The President of the United States, still having no idea what climate means. (never mind the fact that air pollution is on the rise in the US and his administration is hard at work making sure it gets worse)

To be fair, air and water have a good deal to do with climate, so maybe he's just being unclear, as his wont.

But yea he's an utter moron so you're probably spot on.

[molson]

I'm relieved Trump appears to have some vague concept of the "climate" being an issue we should be concerned with. Where you also have Mike Pompeo looking forward to the melting of arctic ice for the availability of new trade routes. And even THAT is kind of a relief, as that's not many left on the right still denying the concept of global warming.

[GrantDawg]

Watched the "Running with Beto" doc. It was enjoyable. Still didn't really see a guy that I think should be president, but a likable guy that is one major job experience from being qualified to me.

[JPhillips]

Trump is offering to meet with the Iranians with no preconditions.

I'm so old I remember when the GOP savaged Obama for saying something similar.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump is offering to meet with the Iranians with no preconditions.

I'm so old I remember when the GOP savaged Obama for saying something similar.

Wait, are you saying partisan people are.... acting partisan?

[whomario]

Trump denies calling Meghan 'nasty' despite audio recording - BBC News


pathological.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wait, are you saying partisan people are.... acting partisan?

I don't think most of the complaints related to this were partisan. Most of the GOP honestly believed that we shouldn't talk to Iran without some concessions that "prove" seriousness. I'm sure there are many GOP electeds that still hold that believe. My surprise here is more about how the entirety of the GOP so easily and willingly gives away any dignity in order to stay on Trump's good side.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

My surprise here is more about how the entirety (edit: most) of the GOP so easily and willingly gives away any dignity in order to stay on Trump's good side.

Oh com'on, its not a surprise. It may have been a surprise 6-12 months in but not anymore.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by whomario

"Well, we will be talking, we will be talking. I can say we have among the cleanest climate in the world right now. Our air and water are doing very well,"

The President of the United States, still having no idea what climate means. (never mind the fact that air pollution is on the rise in the US and his administration is hard at work making sure it gets worse)

Completely anecdotal evidence with a count of 1, but as an asthmatic, I am much better now than I was around the 90s/00s. But that also changes due to age, etc.

Also being fairly tied into this due to my industry, much of what is being weakened at the federal level is intended to be picked up at the state level. Part of the emissions increase is due in large part to the decrease in vehicle traffic post-2008, also the focus has been in large part on CO2 rather than other pollutants. We look good there, but I still maintain that is a bogeyman as compared to other worse pollutants such as O3, CO, CH4, SO2, NO, etc.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Completely anecdotal evidence with a count of 1, but as an asthmatic, I am much better now than I was around the 90s/00s. But that also changes due to age, etc.

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Completely anecdotal evidence with a count of 1, but as an asthmatic, I am much better now than I was around the 90s/00s. But that also changes due to age, etc.

I actually have no doubt the situation in terms of air quality is improved, especially locally. This is the case pretty much across the western industrial nations. But a large part of that is due to much less 'heavy industry' operating now versus back then (with only very cursory search it seems that Dayton qualifies for that development ?). Where i live, the Ruhr Region of germany, this has been the case as well after the steel and coal industry declined.

This comes down again to recognizing climate as an issue that is not necceserily easily noticed 'on the ground'. And i recognize that at the end of the day it is tough to restrict yourself (as a nation), knowing it will only have a fractional impact. But at some point (soon), the western industrial nations have to set the tone and lead by example. Once the first few have gone past the initial pains of the tradition and come out strong (and past transitions show this can be done), that is when you can truly get everybody on board.


Re: CO2 : From what i know of the issue it isn't that CO2 as such is that potent but that there simply is so damn much more of it than everything else (Methane or HFCs, the latter ironically being used in air conditioning and refrigeration and on the rise big time, are much more potent).

[mauchow]

So Trump's campaign isn't paying the city of El Paso for his rally. $470k and a month past due. Soon to be a 21% late fee.

[Kodos]

Shocking. He's usually so good about paying people what he owes them.

[mauchow]

Trunp supposedly drifted to sleep during the Queens speech. LOL

[NobodyHere]

It's so adorable when Republicans pretend they have a spine

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/u...o-tariffs.html

[JPhillips]

The GOP seems to be settling on a Trump Mexico tariffs line:

We don't like tariffs in general, but these Mexico tariffs are different.

[Edward64]

Too soon to mean much but still an interesting data point.

Its the economy ...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/05/polit...ues/index.html

A majority of Americans say they think Donald Trump is going to win a second term, according to a CNN Poll conducted by SSRS, even as the President's reviews on issues other than the economy remain largely negative.

The new poll finds 54% say their best guess is that Trump will win the 2020 election, 41% feel he will lose. Americans are slightly more apt to say Trump will win now than they were to say Barack Obama would win a second term in May 2011, in a survey conducted just after the death of Osama bin Laden (50% thought Obama would win in that poll). The new numbers on Trump are a reversal from December, when a narrow majority of 51% said they thought Trump would lose his bid for re-election.

The shift over that time comes mostly among those who disapprove of Trump's handling of the presidency. In December, 81% in that group said they thought the President would lose, and now, that's fallen to 67%. At the same time, the share who approve of the President and think he will win has held mostly steady (88% now vs. 85% in December).
:
:
The economy remains the bright spot of Trump's presidency in public opinion. Overall, 7 in 10 say the economy is in good shape, about the same as in March, and 52% say they approve of Trump's handling of the economy, down 4 points since April. This poll marks a new high point in the Trump presidency for the share who feel the economy is in "very good" shape, 28% say so, and though that's not significantly larger than the 26% who felt that way in March, it is the best mark since 2000.

[PilotMan]

Yet, totally fine borrowing a trillion for the second year in a row to make that happen.



Another prime example of as long as it's fine right now, why worry about that shit I was upset about a few years ago?

[GrantDawg]

This is the kind of ad the Dems need to run, but they won't because big business owns them as well.








Waleed Shahid on Twitter: "I'm not sure why more Democrats don't run some ads like this focused on how ultra-rich Republicans have used racism to divide and conquer the working class.

"Whether it's immigrants, people on benefits...anything to distract us from the real problem."

https://t.co/vAyBKIeIRY"

[NobodyHere]

I'm not sure that partially blaming racism in this country on astroturfing is a good play for Democrats even if it is probably true. It kind of diminishes the issue.

[NobodyHere]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/06/tech/...fcc/index.html

If the Trump administration can block robocalls then I may actually have to consider liking him.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/06/tech/...fcc/index.html

If the Trump administration can block robocalls then I may actually have to consider liking him.

I can hardly wait for the "No other President could have done such an important task, but me your favorite President in 3,2,1..."

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

This is the kind of ad the Dems need to run, but they won't because big business owns them as well.








Waleed Shahid on Twitter: "I'm not sure why more Democrats don't run some ads like this focused on how ultra-rich Republicans have used racism to divide and conquer the working class.

"Whether it's immigrants, people on benefits...anything to distract us from the real problem."

https://t.co/vAyBKIeIRY"

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I'm not sure that partially blaming racism in this country on astroturfing is a good play for Democrats even if it is probably true. It kind of diminishes the issue.

Indeed. And there are many Democrats (including myself) who think that's not entirely true. Most of the ultra-rich Republicans didn't like Trump's blatant appeals to racism and they probably don't even think what they themselves are doing or saying is racist.

It's step towards conflating racism and class, which is something the Sanders folks believe (and Shahid is one) but most other Democrats do not.

I will also point out that the video only talks about using immigrants to divide once while talking about class over and over again - and never says racism. That's Shahid's addition and kind of gaslighting (if that's the proper word) the video for those who don't bother to watch it.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

This is the kind of ad the Dems need to run, but they won't because big business owns them as well.








Waleed Shahid on Twitter: "I'm not sure why more Democrats don't run some ads like this focused on how ultra-rich Republicans have used racism to divide and conquer the working class.

"Whether it's immigrants, people on benefits...anything to distract us from the real problem."

https://t.co/vAyBKIeIRY"

The thing is that this could be used against either party. The dems are just as guilty as the gop. They both want the status quo. The rich come in both flavors and the liberal rich own most of the press.

Everything she said is spot on. This isnt a dem vs. gop. This is big business, big banks, big pharma, big insurance vs. us.

[tarcone]

Loved the Ralph Nader quote replied in that thread.

"The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations come knocking on their door. That's the only difference."

[ISiddiqui]

Well in that case you must be really excited to vote for Warren or Sanders who are talking about breaking up big tech companies and bypass big insurance & pharma by pushing for single payer, right?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well in that case you must be really excited to vote for Warren or Sanders who are talking about breaking up big tech companies and bypass big insurance & pharma by pushing for single payer, right?

More in the Yang camp right now.

Warren is another liar. Tired of those. Especially when pandering to what she thinks the people want.

Sanders is a little too old. Not sure he would survive a 4 year term.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[tarcone]

Not sure what that means, but, okay

[Izulde]

Uh, Warren has been after the megacorps for years. Nothing she's said has been anything new from what she's said.

I'm slowly starting to shift in her direction when Nevada comes up. I think her policy wonk status will play better in the general than Bernie. Yang remains quietly intriguing.

Other than those 3, it's a meh field for me.

[tarcone]

Yang doesnt have the pull or personality Im afraid.

Bernie is a better draw to the younger voters, which is what that commercial plays too. that is the real us v. them crowd.

Warren lost me with her stupid native american crap. She may be the best thing since sliced bread, but I feel she will sway whichever way the wind blows, which is usually in big corps direction.

Just my opinions.

[ISiddiqui]

That's one of the most nonsensical leaps in logic I've ever heard.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[RainMaker]

You can say a lot about Warren but she's been going hard after corporations her whole life.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

That's one of the most nonsensical leaps in logic I've ever heard.

Its a pretty common one when wanting to downplay a women's ability to lead without pointing to policy, yes?


The "native american thing" she could have handled better, and awhile back I was questioning her ability to win a national election because of it, but that's not her policies or voting record. Honestly though at this point I'm not going to hold the way anyone responds to Trump's ability to bully anyone he wants without any repercussions against them.

[tarcone]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely

See: Trump.

When you try and sell yourself as something that you are not, I have a hard time trusting you.

[CU Tiger]

So is this a victory for Trump or a loss for human rights or both?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1T62YC

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

That's Shahid's addition and kind of gaslighting (if that's the proper word) the video for those who don't bother to watch it.

I want to say I was pointing out the video, and just used his tweet as the easiest way to share it. I actually watched the video and really wasn't even paying attention to what his tweet said. Though I will say we can't ignore race, making it just a racial issue is just another way to distract from core issues in our system that needs to be addressed.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I want to say I was pointing out the video, and just used his tweet as the easiest way to share it. I actually watched the video and really wasn't even paying attention to what his tweet said. Though I will say we can't ignore race, making it just a racial issue is just another way to distract from core issues in our system that needs to be addressed.

Yes, the video is quite good. And I agree with you. Shahid decided to make a point about racism using a video that focused on class... but there are some that want to make racism simply a subset of classism (well because those people think everything is a subset of classism) and use whatever they can to make that point.

[Brian Swartz]

Trump has now revolutionized astrodynamics.

Originally Posted by POTUS

For all of the money we are spending, NASA should NOT be talking about going to the Moon - We did that 50 years ago. They should be focused on the much bigger things we are doing, including Mars (of which the Moon is a part), Defense and Science!

I think this is my favorite response:

Originally Posted by Jason Gilbert

As JFK famously said, “We choose to go to the Moon not because it is easy, but because it is Mars"

[PilotMan]

I feel like Biden has peaked. It's going to be a slow fall now for all the reasons he failed before. He just doesn't bring what is needed.

[QuikSand]

I think the thing with Warren's liability (the Native American claim) isn't that it's egregious. It's that it is very sticky.

I tend to agree with the many who believe it could definitely doom her were she to be the party nominee - it's too relatable a thing, and we know trump would weaponize it fully. For the legion of voters who are as persuadable as they have shown themselves to be, that's is exactly the sort of thing that really hurts.