Star Wars: Episode VII

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

He really didn't. I specifically looked for it on rewatch - he was totally in charge of the battle and his own power until Rey closed her eyes, channeled the Force and suddenly became badass lightsaber warrior. Watch the movie again. Look for it specifically.

I'm talking about earlier when he starts hitting his side where he got shot. He lost concentration enough to stop fighting completely. I'm saying it's absurd to say he can lose concentration at one point in the but not at another point.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm talking about earlier when he starts hitting his side where he got shot. He lost concentration enough to stop fighting completely. I'm saying it's absurd to say he can lose concentration at one point in the but not at another point.

I feel like I'm banging my head on the wall at this point.

WHEN DID HE LOSE CONCENTRATION IN THE FIGHT AGAINST REY? Because it isn't in the movie.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I feel like I'm banging my head on the wall at this point.

WHEN DID HE LOSE CONCENTRATION IN THE FIGHT AGAINST REY? Because it isn't in the movie.

I just watched the scene again. When he tries to call the saber, his hand is visibly shaking. Not really the mark of a force user who has complete concentration.

And there doesn't have to be a completely obvious shot of him losing concentration at each point of the battle. It would be dumb to see it edited that way. You have been arguing that it isn't believable for Ren to be weakened because of the crossbow blast (based on what Vader does in ROTS). The reason I bring up the part where he hits his side is to show that if at that part of the battle he can be distracted enough to stop fighting completely, then the wound can clearly cause him to fight at less than full strength just a few minutes later.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I just watched the scene again. When he tries to call the saber, his hand is visibly shaking. Not really the mark of a force user who has complete concentration.

Wait a second... so after he's dispatched Finn easily and believes Rey is knocked out. When his entire mind is focused on calling the saber. THAT'S when you think he loses concentration? Really?

You have been arguing that it isn't believable for Ren to be weakened because of the crossbow blast (based on what Vader does in ROTS).

No, I'm arguing it isn't believable for Ren not strong in the Force because of the crossbow blast because what TFA actually shows. Which is a very powerful Force user, who is very proficient in his lightsaber battles (until Rey channels the Force while her back is to the cliff and Ren is trying to turn her).

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Wait a second... so after he's dispatched Finn easily and believes Rey is knocked out. When his entire mind is focused on calling the saber. THAT'S when you think he loses concentration? Really?

I'm saying his hand is shaking as he reaches for the saber. And Warhammer gave a good explanation for why he might be irritated after defeating Finn.

No, I'm arguing it isn't believable for Ren not strong in the Force because of the crossbow blast because what TFA actually shows. Which is a very powerful Force user, who is very proficient in his lightsaber battles (until Rey channels the Force while her back is to the cliff and Ren is trying to turn her).

Except you said earlier you believed that Rey could match him in a lightsaber battle and your real problem is that she shouldn't have been able to call the saber over him. Are you changing that argument now?

[AnalBumCover]

So let me get this straight...

larry is arguing that Rey beat Ren because he was distracted/lost concentration due to the shotgun blast?

ISiddiqui is arguing that Rey beat Ren because she's better at using the force?

Why not both?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm saying his hand is shaking as he reaches for saber.

As he's calling for it? Yeah, he's trying to move it from the snow.

Kylo Ren is a dark side practitioner, which is not about calmness and standing still. It's about an active, action based Force.

Except you said earlier you believed that Rey could match him in a lightsaber battle and your real problem is that she shouldn't have been able to call the saber over him. Are you changing that argument now?

I mentioned that I changed my view on Kylo Ren's abilities after a rewatch; I found that I was mistaken in believing that Rey did match him in lightsabers. She didn't do so until after she channeled the Force. I was also mistaken that Finn was matching Kylo Ren in lightsabers - KR was toying with Finn at best.

I now think that both the calling of the lightsaber and the channeling of the Force to be lightsaber master are narrative missteps that don't make sense - they come from the same well, however - Rey's ability to super-quickly master the Force.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by AnalBumCover

So let me get this straight...

larry is arguing that Rey beat Ren because he was distracted/lost concentration due to the shotgun blast?

ISiddiqui is arguing that Rey beat Ren because she's better at using the force?

Why not both?

Oh don't get me wrong. I have no problem with the idea that Rey might stronger with the force than Ren. My argument is more based around the idea that she doesn't need to be a stronger force user for the fight sequence to take place the way it did.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Not really the mark of a force user who has complete concentration.

Or one who has mastery of the force.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by AnalBumCover

So let me get this straight...

larry is arguing that Rey beat Ren because he was distracted/lost concentration due to the shotgun blast?

ISiddiqui is arguing that Rey beat Ren because she's better at using the force?

Why not both?

My argument is that the movie doesn't really show any evidence that Ren was distracted or that he lost concentration due to that shotgun blast. All that it shows is that he hits his side a few times as he is getting ready to face off against Finn. He appears completely unbothered by it afterwards. I'm sure J.J. could have shown a scene where it bothers him after Rey wakes back up, but there is nothing indicating that - he's not even leaking blood from his side during that battle (with Rey).

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

As he's calling for it? Yeah, he's trying to move it from the snow.

Kylo Ren is a dark side practitioner, which is not about calmness and standing still. It's about an active, action based Force.

See: Vader levitating objects against Luke in ESB, force choking the imperial leader in ANH, Emperor force lightning in ROTJ.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

See: Vader levitating objects against Luke in ESB, force choking the imperial leader in ANH, Emperor force lightning in ROTJ.

Vader doesn't even use his hands to levitate things, FWIW.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Vader doesn't even use his hands to levitate things, FWIW.

Looks like he moves his saber as he's doing it. Either way, he's perfectly calm and smooth while doing it, very different from Ren's shaking.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, Vader's lightsaber arm doesn't have an organic hand in it (see, end of Ep 6, end of Ep 3).

Ok, the dark side argument was stupid (I think I was thinking of the lightsaber battle in TPM where Qui-Gon and Darth Maul take two vastly different approaches to waiting for the barrier to fall), but Luke's hand in ESB is also shaking when he tries to get the lightsaber out from the snow in Hoth.

[ISiddiqui]

In addition when Kylo Ren stops the blaster bolt from Poe in the beginning, his hand is shaking:

Kylo Ren vs Finn Fight Footage In Order [HD] All Lightsaber Footage Star Wars The Force Awakens - YouTube

And here is the scene you are talking about:

https://youtu.be/FB-yUaMmH-Q?t=18s

Kylo Ren's hand is barely shaking. About as much as in the beginning when he stops Poe's blaster bolt.

[Warhammer]

Luke and Ren at the point referenced are trying to make something happen. It is said that both need additional training after these scenes.

Luke learns from Yoda, do or do not, there is no try. Watch Luke trying to lift his X-Wing out of the swamp vs. Yoda's serene movement. Abrams is using the shaking we see from Ren to show that he is not fully trained. He must make effort to use the force.

Think of both Rey and Ren as gifted street basketball players. Everything is fine when they just do it. If you think you can do more and try to do it, you strain to do more. Sometimes you just can progress, sometimes you can't. Ren is thinking too much rather than doing. Rey is just trying things out. Let me try to do it, and it happens.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Luke and Ren at the point referenced are trying to make something happen. It is said that both need additional training after these scenes.

Luke learns from Yoda, do or do not, there is no try. Watch Luke trying to lift his X-Wing out of the swamp vs. Yoda's serene movement. Abrams is using the shaking we see from Ren to show that he is not fully trained. He must make effort to use the force.

Think of both Rey and Ren as gifted street basketball players. Everything is fine when they just do it. If you think you can do more and try to do it, you strain to do more. Sometimes you just can progress, sometimes you can't. Ren is thinking too much rather than doing. Rey is just trying things out. Let me try to do it, and it happens.

Which is fine... accepting that, then... Ren's shaking of his hand to get the lightsaber is not his Force abilities being affected by the shot he received, but simply a product of his level of training. In that, that Ren, while absurdly powerful in his use of the Force (stopping blasters, pulling memories out of people's heads, knocking people out easily, throwing people 30 feet into the air with no problem), he's not fully trained. In addition, his shaking hands is something he has done since the beginning of the movie (when stopping said blaster bolt).

Hence, in that reading, the shot that Chewwy unleashed doesn't diminish his Force power in that scene.

I tried to point out that I can see consistency in the Rey is just super prolific in the Force out of nowhere, I just think it's silly. I just didn't see consistency from the Ren has been damaged, hence his Force abilities are not working as well as they should - it seemed like a way for people who do believe that Rey's quite ascent was a bit silly and want to blunt that a bit.

[SnowMan]

Star Wars Fan Debunks Huff Post's "40 Unforgivable Plot Holes in The Force Awakens"

I'll just leave this here. Not getting into this argument, just figured a third perspective might be useful? Maybe not...*shurg*

[PilotMan]

[Edward64]

I saw that, it's great.

[Eaglesfan27]

My friend showed me that yesterday - hilarious!

[flere-imsaho]

My estimation of Driver as an actor skyrocketed after those clips.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I saw that, it's great.

+1

[stevew]

Han Solo In Carbonite Wall Decal | Shop Fathead® for Star Wars Movies Decor


Thinking about getting this for the living room

[stevew]

Episode 8 pushed back to Christmas of 2017

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by stevew

Episode 8 pushed back to Christmas of 2017

Makes sense. It was too close to Rogue One and Episode 7 proved that December can be a huge month.

[flere-imsaho]

Since they're apparently going to do a film or two about young Han Solo, I just wanted to say I want Michael B. Jordan as a young Lando.

Can't think of someone for Solo, though.

[jeff061]

Shia Labeouf of course.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Since they're apparently going to do a film or two about young Han Solo, I just wanted to say I want Michael B. Jordan as a young Lando.

Can't think of someone for Solo, though.

Michael B Jordan was linked to Boba Fett. I'd cast Ice Cube, Jr. as Lando. And I'd either go with Ansel Elgort(Fault in our Stars dude) or Nick Krause(The Descendants) as Solo

[JeeberD]

Disney agrees with one of your choices...

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.2493128

[Butter]

" A-list stars Miles Teller, Dave Franco and Scott Eastwood,"

What?

[ISiddiqui]

Well Miles Teller is just about there, I'd say.. but likely not A-list yet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

When I've only even heard one of the names in the past -- no matter how little interest I have in movies -- whatever that is, it isn't "A-list".

To me that designation is reserved for those who have enough cachet to get beyond the moviephile sphere.

[mckerney]

The official Star Wars website published a list of the many voice actors who contributed lines to the movie today, from stormstroopers to resistance pilots.

Since one of the aliens said Kojima I'm going to go ahead with my belief that red arm C3-PO was Venom Snake all along.

[NobodyHere]

Is it too early to get excited?

[flere-imsaho]

No, it is not too early to get excited.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

No, it is not too early to get excited.

I'm definitely excited. I want the Blu-ray for The Force Awakens now!

[Kodos]

Not too early. 10 months until Rogue One!

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I'm definitely excited. I want the Blu-ray for The Force Awakens now!

Yeah, time to get back into buying Blu-rays.

[flere-imsaho]

OH HOLY SHIT.

Link is to youtube and is SFW.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Since one of the aliens said Kojima I'm going to go ahead with my belief that red arm C3-PO was Venom Snake all along.

LOL thanks mckerney I needed that.

laughed a little...

Spoiler

okay a lot

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

OH HOLY SHIT.

Link is to youtube and is SFW.

That was cool.