A glimmer of hope for the return of the NCAA Football videogame series...

[Kodos]

The NCAA is Investigating Whether or Not It Is Time to Bring NCAA Football Back - Operation Sports

The NCAA is Investigating Whether or Not It’s Time to Bring NCAA Football Back - Operation Sports Forums

[RainMaker]

Get me College Hoops 2K too and I'll be a happy man.

[FBPro]

NCAA Football, PLZ

[Kodos]

NCAA name, image, likeness group could change everything | SI.com

[albionmoonlight]

This might be the only instance in which a sentence starts "The NCAA is investigating . . . " that does not end in a complete clusterfuck

[Kodos]

California passes bill allowing athletes to be paid for name, image and likeness

Another step. California sees this as a possible recruiting advantage. How long will other states wait to follow suit?

Emmert asked California officials in a letter in June to table the bill until an NCAA working group studying athlete compensation delivered its findings to the association next month. Association officials fear that allowing only athletes in California to be compensated would give colleges in the state a recruitment advantage, as players would be lured there by the prospect of marketing and endorsement deals, Emmert wrote in the letter. He also used the letter to suggest that the state’s colleges and universities could be prohibited from taking part in championship games because of these unfair recruitment benefits.

The NCAA will likely have to allow the California bill to take effect without consequences, which would open the possibility for other states to pass similar legislation, said Erwin Chemerinsky, dean and professor of law at the UC Berkeley School of Law. The other option is for the NCAA to create a model allowing athletes in all states to be compensated, he said.

[NobodyHere]

Good for California. There's no reason why athletes shouldn't be able to market themselves for private dollars.

[CU Tiger]

They already can. There is no rule preventing Tua or Trevor Lawrence or Zion from igning a marketing contract with Nike and making bank.

There is however a rule that if they sign said contract they must then forfeit their amateur status and no longer compete against other amateur athletes. The athletes have this choice today. They just dont like having to make a choice and want both.

I really hope the XFL and DNBA succeed and make a true minor system option.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

They already can. There is no rule preventing Tua or Trevor Lawrence or Zion from igning a marketing contract with Nike and making bank.

There is however a rule that if they sign said contract they must then forfeit their amateur status and no longer compete against other amateur athletes. The athletes have this choice today. They just dont like having to make a choice and want both.

I really hope the XFL and DNBA succeed and make a true minor system option.

Why should they have to make this choice? What's wrong with college athletes making money on their likeness?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Why should they have to make this choice? What's wrong with college athletes making money on their likeness?

I agree. Why cant they profit off themselves? NCAA is so corrupt and greedy. Using and abusing 18-22 year olds. And no one says a thing.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

They already can. There is no rule preventing Tua or Trevor Lawrence or Zion from igning a marketing contract with Nike and making bank.

There is however a rule that if they sign said contract they must then forfeit their amateur status and no longer compete against other amateur athletes. The athletes have this choice today. They just dont like having to make a choice and want both.

I really hope the XFL and DNBA succeed and make a true minor system option.

This is the bullshit argument thats been pandered for decades. There is no difference between a college player and an NFL player right now beyond the fact that the college player is a slave to their selected program. The idea that they get an education for free is, has, and always will be a complete side show con-job to keep the profits from their abilities within the schools.

Economic slavery is still slavery. Fuck the NCAA, pay the players.

[Bisbo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Get me College Hoops 2K too and I'll be a happy man.

Amen! Loved that game.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This is the bullshit argument thats been pandered for decades. There is no difference between a college player and an NFL player right now beyond the fact that the college player is a slave to their selected program. The idea that they get an education for free is, has, and always will be a complete side show con-job to keep the profits from their abilities within the schools.

Economic slavery is still slavery. Fuck the NCAA, pay the players.

If it's bullshit, I will gladly take the $20k a year they make so we do not need to pay a dime for my kids....

The fact that the athlete does not want to make full use of their compensation is not an issue of the NCAA. If they want, after high school they can see how many prospects they have in the pros, if they do not make it, tough.

[jbergey22]

Assuming you pay the players. Does this mean Alabama can pay their players more than WKentucky? Does the 3rd string kicker make the same as QB1? Do players at the D3 level get paid as well?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Assuming you pay the players. Does this mean Alabama can pay their players more than WKentucky? Does the 3rd string kicker make the same as QB1? Do players at the D3 level get paid as well?

I'm not a fan of public dollars paying the players, but players should be able seek as many private dollars as they can.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I'm not a fan of public dollars paying the players, but players should be able seek as many private dollars as they can.

I dont necessarily disagree however I worry that the boosters from the large schools will give them even more of an advantage than they have already if this becomes a thing.

It puts the 150th best BB recruit in the nation weighing an option of getting paid $150,000 year to sit on the bench for Kentucky or starting at Minnesota for $50,000. At college age(or any age really?) can you really give up 100k extra a year? This is my only concern. Maybe Im overthinking it and it wouldnt be this extreme.

[tarcone]

Im not sure the alumni angle is really true. Oklahoma St. just lost their biggest booster in T Boone Pickens. Would he pony up for a great player?

I think most schools have really rich boosters.

Heck, Iowa started a shitty punter for 2 years because he was the nephew of one of their biggest boosters. Its not a new thing.

And the punter SUCKED

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im not sure the alumni angle is really true. Oklahoma St. just lost their biggest booster in T Boone Pickens. Would he pony up for a great player?

I think most schools have really rich boosters.

Heck, Iowa started a shitty punter for 2 years because he was the nephew of one of their biggest boosters. Its not a new thing.

And the punter SUCKED

Well he donated over 500 million dollars is the rumor. I would guess if he could have legally hired top recruits he would have. His comments were basically just bring us championships.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Well he donated over 500 million dollars is the rumor. I would guess if he could have legally hired top recruits he would have. His comments were basically just bring us championships.

Esactly. I think it would even the playing field more then it is now. Player swould go for money not titles. At least 90% would.

[Groundhog]

The NCAAs fear of kids being paid reminds me of the fear record companies had of MP3s and digital music destroying the industry. The NCAA actually reminds me a ton of shady record companies ripping off performers in general.

The whole college sports/pay thing is another one of these areas that seems bizarre to an outsider like me who doesn't have an equivalent system in place here. Like, putting student athletes aside and applying this same system to all other students who are among the best young prospects at whatever it is they do... they wouldn't be penalised for the same thing athletes are, right?

I mean, I say it seems bizarre, but it's not really. It's just all down to profits. An academic scholarship is basically a school investing in the athletic ability of a prospect and hoping that they payoff exceeds the cost of a scholarship. The goal is not to give the kids educations, its to win games/events.

Anyway, who cares, I just wan't a new College Hoops game...

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I'm not a fan of public dollars paying the players, but players should be able seek as many private dollars as they can.

This is where I'm at as well. Public colleges shouldn't pay a dime to athletes, but athletes that are able should make as much money as they can. I think a workable solution is separating college athletic programs from institutional support, but even that will never happen.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

If they want, after high school they can see how many prospects they have in the pros, if they do not make it, tough.

I'd agree with this if college and the NFL hadn't basically colluded to make it that players don't have another option other than going to college. If the NFL allows players to be drafted out of HS, I'm all for it.

Also I think in general in a lot of these examples, the player isn't going to take more money to go to a situation where he's guaranteed to sit on the bench and fade into obscurity. Put a sensible limit on it and players are still going to weigh things up and go where they think they can start, just like they do today.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I dont necessarily disagree however I worry that the boosters from the large schools will give them even more of an advantage than they have already if this becomes a thing.

It puts the 150th best BB recruit in the nation weighing an option of getting paid $150,000 year to sit on the bench for Kentucky or starting at Minnesota for $50,000. At college age(or any age really?) can you really give up 100k extra a year? This is my only concern. Maybe Im overthinking it and it wouldnt be this extreme.

It sounds like a good dilemma for a young recruit to have.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Why should they have to make this choice? What's wrong with college athletes making money on their likeness?

Why should I have to choose between (so many things) face tattoos, smokling weed, posting WTF I want on social media, etc etc etc and my job?

Its called adulting. It sucks but we all do it.

Originally Posted by RendeR

This is the bullshit argument thats been pandered for decades. There is no difference between a college player and an NFL player right now beyond the fact that the college player is a slave to their selected program. The idea that they get an education for free is, has, and always will be a complete side show con-job to keep the profits from their abilities within the schools.

Economic slavery is still slavery. Fuck the NCAA, pay the players.

I could de-rail the entire thread in a 10,000 word response to this one post. But you and I will never see eye to eye so I will just make these few response bullet points.
1- I feel qualified to speak on the matter as I was a former college athlete and I am currently the dad of a college scholarship athlete. That worthless scholarship my son got freed up a 250k college fund for me. Im pretty happy with it. I recognize not everyone's situation is the same but there is tremendous value in that scholarship, in the training and access and in the freebies. Tremendous.
It is not perfect and it can impact major and study decisions, my son has changed his major because he couldnt balance the class load with the sport demands. But thats a choice he made.
2- Calling it slavery is insulting to the thought of actual slavery.
3- You are totally ignoring the value of publicity that the kids get from the school. Clemson (for example because I know them) spends about $2.5 million per year on their social media marketing. Part of the reason these kids are household names is the brand recognition.

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I'd agree with this if college and the NFL hadn't basically colluded to make it that players don't have another option other than going to college. If the NFL allows players to be drafted out of HS, I'm all for it.

Also I think in general in a lot of these examples, the player isn't going to take more money to go to a situation where he's guaranteed to sit on the bench and fade into obscurity. Put a sensible limit on it and players are still going to weigh things up and go where they think they can start, just like they do today.

If the money isnt coming from the institution and is coming from outside sources how can you put any limits on it?

One final thought, and this isn't impossible to over come but does point to the complexity of the issue. These kids as amateurs are tax exempt because they receive no income. Once they become employees, or God forbid independent contractors, that changes their tax responsibility, their insurance responsibility and eligibility, their FAFSA eligibility etc.

Taking education completely out of the equation the average P5 football player, non scholarship, gets about $25-30k per year in fringe benefits. At the big time programs that's much much more. That will become taxable income if these guys become employees. Of course we can change the tax code...but just understand the depth on the impact we are discussing.

I wish there was a middle ground. A trust or endowment at each institution that upon graduation matures and each player gets a dividend from...but in inaccessible during their college career.

I dont pretend to have all the answers but I think the following three things are all true.
1 - I think players need to be compensated somehow.
2 - I think players are compensated much more than most in the argument will acknowledge
3- I think the problem is much more complex and nuancd than anyone wants to concede.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Why should I have to choose between (so many things) face tattoos, smokling weed, posting WTF I want on social media, etc etc etc and my job?

Its called adulting. It sucks but we all do it.

That doesn't answer the question.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I dont pretend to have all the answers but I think the following three things are all true.
1 - I think players need to be compensated somehow.
2 - I think players are compensated much more than most in the argument will acknowledge
3- I think the problem is much more complex and nuancd than anyone wants to concede.

I agree on all three points.

I think the issue I have with the kids being paid is not so much the extra compensation, its that we're saying the current compensation is of very little value.

The majority of these kids are not going to be playing ball on Sundays. Some will, but for the majority of scholarship football players, they have the chance to get a free education that will provide opportunities for the rest of their lives (if they take advantage of it).

[bob]

Yep - if I learned anything from watching football all these years, its that the vast majority of college athletes don't go pro, but instead end up working at Enterprise car rental.

[Kodos]

South Carolina is looking at doing something similar to California.

https://www.thestate.com/news/politi...235015452.html

[Kodos]

The governor of California has signed the bill into law.

California defies NCAA as Gov. Gavin Newsom signs into law Fair Pay to Play Act

[Kodos]

EA CEO Says They Would Jump For the Opportunity, To Get Back in The College-Game Business - Operation Sports

During the WSJ Tech Live conference, EA CEO Andrew Wilson said, “we would jump for the opportunity to get back in the college-game business,” if the NCAA can determine how to compensate players for using their digital likeness in video games.

[JediKooter]

If the NCAA were smart, they would open up the licensing to any developer that wanted use the NCAA brand and then leave it up to the players whether or not they license their likenesses and names, etc...to those developers.

[Kodos]

Board of Governors starts process to enhance name, image and likeness opportunities | NCAA.org - The Official Site of the NCAA

In the Association’s continuing efforts to support college athletes, the NCAA’s top governing board voted unanimously to permit students participating in athletics the opportunity to benefit from the use of their name, image and likeness in a manner consistent with the collegiate model.

The Board of Governors’ action directs each of the NCAA’s three divisions to immediately consider updates to relevant bylaws and policies for the 21st century, said Michael V. Drake, chair of the board and president of The Ohio State University.

“We must embrace change to provide the best possible experience for college athletes,” Drake said. “Additional flexibility in this area can and must continue to support college sports as a part of higher education. This modernization for the future is a natural extension of the numerous steps NCAA members have taken in recent years to improve support for student-athletes, including full cost of attendance and guaranteed scholarships.”

Sounds like good news.

[NobodyHere]

The glimmer of hope just got brighter?

NCAA board votes to allow athlete compensation

[RainMaker]

Give me this and College Hoops 2K please.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Give me this and College Hoops 2K please.

Amen!

Here's a little look at what might have been with NCAA 15. Expanded Teambuilder sounds awesome to me.

EA Sports Planned to Release College Football 15 With an Expanded TeamBuilder & More, Before It Was Canceled - Operation Sports

[NobodyHere]

One step closer?

NCAA takes big step toward allowing name, image and likeness compensation for athletes - CBSSports.com

[Kodos]

Board of Governors moves toward allowing student-athlete compensation for endorsements and promotions | NCAA.org - The Official Site of the NCAA

[bhlloy]

"While student-athletes would be permitted to identify themselves by sport and school, the use of conference and school logos, trademarks or other involvement would not be allowed. "

Feels like a step back given that the athlete likenesses and names were never in the games anyway. If I'm EA Sports, I feel like I'm less likely to make a game with Trevor Lawrence as the QB of a generic team that plays in Orange in the Generic Coast Conference than I was when I could have Clemson in the ACC with QB #16 called Steve Wilson.

[Atocep]

From what I'm reading the proposed deal more or less kills any chance at a new NCAA game.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

"While student-athletes would be permitted to identify themselves by sport and school, the use of conference and school logos, trademarks or other involvement would not be allowed. "

Feels like a step back given that the athlete likenesses and names were never in the games anyway. If I'm EA Sports, I feel like I'm less likely to make a game with Trevor Lawrence as the QB of a generic team that plays in Orange in the Generic Coast Conference than I was when I could have Clemson in the ACC with QB #16 called Steve Wilson.

Is there any reason why EA couldn't make separate deals with athletes and the NCAA?

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Is there any reason why EA couldn't make separate deals with athletes and the NCAA?

I'm no lawyer but I agree with Atocep (and have read the same elsewhere) - this agreement means they couldn't have the players in the game profiting off the logos and trademarks of the colleges and conferences. It's a one or the other scenario.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I'm no lawyer but I agree with Atocep (and have read the same elsewhere) - this agreement means they couldn't have the players in the game profiting off the logos and trademarks of the colleges and conferences. It's a one or the other scenario.

I don't see why. Don't the Madden games have to deal with the NFL and the NFLPA?

[bhlloy]

The NFL doesn’t say that the NFL players can’t be compensated from anything that has NFL logos and trademarks on. Seems like apples to oranges, no? The NCAA has come out and said sure... you can have a likeness of this player in the game and compensate them but then you can’t have any real life teams or conferences. There’s no separate agreement because they have said it’s one or the other.

[kcchief19]

Actually it's very similar to what the NFL does. Players can't appear in ads or use their likeness using team or NFL logos or trademarks without permission. It's why you often see players in ads with generic helmets and uniforms. But players can appear in ads if the team grants permission.

But if EA contracts with the players for their likeness and makes a separate licensing deal with the schools and conference, they would be allowed. Just a matter if the schools and conferences will go along with it.

The rule is clearly intended to keep schools from using their brand sand marketing arms to help players land deals. If a school can tell players they can help them land six-figure marketing deals, that would disrupt recruiting in a whole new way.
QUOTE=bhlloy;3278290]The NFL doesn’t say that the NFL players can’t be compensated from anything that has NFL logos and trademarks on. Seems like apples to oranges, no? The NCAA has come out and said sure... you can have a likeness of this player in the game and compensate them but then you can’t have any real life teams or conferences. There’s no separate agreement because they have said it’s one or the other.[/quote]

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Actually it's very similar to what the NFL does. Players can't appear in ads or use their likeness using team or NFL logos or trademarks without permission. It's why you often see players in ads with generic helmets and uniforms. But players can appear in ads if the team grants permission.

But if EA contracts with the players for their likeness and makes a separate licensing deal with the schools and conference, they would be allowed. Just a matter if the schools and conferences will go along with it.

The rule is clearly intended to keep schools from using their brand sand marketing arms to help players land deals. If a school can tell players they can help them land six-figure marketing deals, that would disrupt recruiting in a whole new way.

The biggest difference is the NFL has a union that can negotiate on behalf of all players. EA has, understandably, said they won't negotiate with players individually.


Players getting paid? Video games returning? Answering your NCAA name, image and likeness questions

Does this mean the NCAA Football video game is coming back?
Unfortunately, no. Typically, the rights that video-game makers need to create sports games are negotiated through a group licensing process where athletes organize into a collective group and split the money that the video game company pays them. At the professional level, player unions provide an easy way to organize and negotiate group licenses.

Past attempts to unionize college football players have failed. Some advocacy groups, such as the National Collegiate Players Association, have published suggestions for how athletes could organize for group licensing opportunities, but NCAA leaders have consistently said they don't think that it would be possible.

The working group's report said there are too many legal hurdles that deem it as an unrealistic option for implementation. But the report left a little room for hope. The group did recommend that the NCAA continue to explore whether those legal hurdles can be overcome in the future, so it can be revisited in 2021 or later.