RFL II year 2 - rules changes / slider tweaks?

Kodos · 10-27-2010, 11:16 PM

Just a thread to see if there is consensus in the league to make any changes to our settings. I personally would favor shortening quarters by a minute to cut down on some of the blowouts we have. We had some instances of stat-whoring this season, in my opinion. I'd like to cut down on that.

Balldog · 10-28-2010, 05:29 AM

I am ok with going to 7 minute quarters.

Other things I'd like to see:

Raise speed threshold to 45
Lowers the effectiveness of throwing to the Running Backs.
Lowers the effectiveness of running outside.
Overall reduces big plays, which I think has a lot to do with the high scoring.
Make the game a little tougher.

Raise CPU Tackle by 10
It seems I can always make the first guy miss against the CPU, always.

Raise CPU Run Block by 5 or 10
I found it too easy to stop the CPU running game.

Ban 5-Wide
Its cheese, impossible to line up 5 DBs.

To prevent stat whoring I've seen other leagues place limits on the numbers of yards you can have with a player in a game and for a season. You get over that number and you have to sit him for the game or even the rest of the season. Its nice because you don't have to deal with the absurd stats but is it too much? I don't know.

Kodos · 10-28-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

To prevent stat whoring I've seen other leagues place limits on the numbers of yards you can have with a player in a game and for a season. You get over that number and you have to sit him for the game or even the rest of the season. Its nice because you don't have to deal with the absurd stats but is it too much? I don't know.

I'd have trouble getting behind this one. I'd prefer people just willingly substituted in their second-team guys once the game is in hand (21 point lead in 2nd half - something like that).

cmp · 10-28-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

I am ok with going to 7 minute quarters.

Other things I'd like to see:

Raise speed threshold to 45
Lowers the effectiveness of throwing to the Running Backs.
Lowers the effectiveness of running outside.
Overall reduces big plays, which I think has a lot to do with the high scoring.
Make the game a little tougher.

Raise CPU Tackle by 10
It seems I can always make the first guy miss against the CPU, always.

Raise CPU Run Block by 5 or 10
I found it too easy to stop the CPU running game.

Ban 5-Wide
Its cheese, impossible to line up 5 DBs.

I'm good with all of these. Would make it a lot more competitive.

Mike1409 · 10-28-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

I am ok with going to 7 minute quarters.

Other things I'd like to see:

Raise speed threshold to 45
Lowers the effectiveness of throwing to the Running Backs.
Lowers the effectiveness of running outside.
Overall reduces big plays, which I think has a lot to do with the high scoring.
Make the game a little tougher.

Raise CPU Tackle by 10
It seems I can always make the first guy miss against the CPU, always.

Raise CPU Run Block by 5 or 10
I found it too easy to stop the CPU running game.

I am good with these.
I would also raises the holding back to the original setting. After the change it is almost never called and I think there should be 6-7 penalties per team per game.

Eaglesfan27 · 10-28-2010, 05:49 PM

I'm behind everything except the 5 WR set ban. That I'm on the fence on as it would eliminate a lot of team's playbooks. For example, that would take away about 20% of the USC offensive playbook, but I know it would be a much higher percentage for other teams.

Balldog · 10-28-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

I'd have trouble getting behind this one. I'd prefer people just willingly substituted in their second-team guys once the game is in hand (21 point lead in 2nd half - something like that).

I agree its extreme, just referencing something I've seen. I'm ok with the 21 point lead rule too.

Balldog · 10-28-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I'm behind everything except the 5 WR set ban. That I'm on the fence on as it would eliminate a lot of team's playbooks. For example, that would take away about 20% of the USC offensive playbook, but I know it would be a much higher percentage for other teams.

How about no formation subs in 5 wide? I've used 5 wide as well, but with my TE in the slot. I've seen others put in their top WR and its pretty much money because they are lined up against a LB unless you go zone. Personally more worried about seeing it abused against the CPU than against Humans.

Eaglesfan27 · 10-28-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

How about no formation subs in 5 wide? I've used 5 wide as well, but with my TE in the slot. I've seen others put in their top WR and its pretty much money because they are lined up against a LB unless you go zone. Personally more worried about seeing it abused against the CPU than against Humans.

Probably impossible to enforce, but I'd have zero problem with no formation subs in 5 wide. Personally, I just go with the default personnel in that formation.

Edit: If you want to start our game early, Balldog, just let me know.

Bigsmooth · 10-28-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

I am ok with going to 7 minute quarters.

Other things I'd like to see:

Raise speed threshold to 45
Lowers the effectiveness of throwing to the Running Backs.
Lowers the effectiveness of running outside.
Overall reduces big plays, which I think has a lot to do with the high scoring.
Make the game a little tougher.

Raise CPU Tackle by 10
It seems I can always make the first guy miss against the CPU, always.

Raise CPU Run Block by 5 or 10
I found it too easy to stop the CPU running game.

Ban 5-Wide
Its cheese, impossible to line up 5 DBs.

To prevent stat whoring I've seen other leagues place limits on the numbers of yards you can have with a player in a game and for a season. You get over that number and you have to sit him for the game or even the rest of the season. Its nice because you don't have to deal with the absurd stats but is it too much? I don't know.

All of this sounds alright to me. I never really used the 5 wide but could see how it might be an exploit.

Kodos · 10-28-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

I agree its extreme, just referencing something I've seen. I'm ok with the 21 point lead rule too.

Thinking on this some more, maybe a 28 point lead is better. 21 is within the realm of a comeback. 28, you're pretty much going to win barring an epic meltdown.

Eaglesfan27 · 10-28-2010, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

Thinking on this some more, maybe a 28 point lead is better. 21 is within the realm of a comeback. 28, you're pretty much going to win barring an epic meltdown.

Agreed with 28. That is usually (except maybe the UCLA game, I have a hard time not wanting to run up the score on them) when I pulled my starters and that feels about right to me.

Balldog · 10-28-2010, 09:27 PM

One more that is common in most of the OS leagues is banning User Catch.

Eaglesfan27 · 10-28-2010, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

One more that is common in most of the OS leagues is banning User Catch.

I'm for that as well.

Balldog · 10-28-2010, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Probably impossible to enforce, but I'd have zero problem with no formation subs in 5 wide. Personally, I just go with the default personnel in that formation.

Edit: If you want to start our game early, Balldog, just let me know.

I say we leave 5-wide with no formation subs and hopefully the speed threshold slider will help. If not we can always look at it again next year.

Kodos · 10-29-2010, 12:17 AM

So no controlling the WR at all before he catches it?

Balldog · 10-29-2010, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

So no controlling the WR at all before he catches it?

Yeah or the DB, gives a big advantage over the AI controlled players.

Kodos · 10-30-2010, 09:32 PM

Okay, we'll go ahead and make these changes. We'll cut down from 8 to 7 minute quarters, the slider suggestions below will be implemented, and there are no substitutions allowed in 5 WR sets. No user catches on either side of the ball.

CPU run blocking raised by 10 to 60.
CPU tackling raised by 10 to 60.
Speed threshold set to 45.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

I am ok with going to 7 minute quarters.

Other things I'd like to see:

Raise speed threshold to 45
Lowers the effectiveness of throwing to the Running Backs.
Lowers the effectiveness of running outside.
Overall reduces big plays, which I think has a lot to do with the high scoring.
Make the game a little tougher.

Raise CPU Tackle by 10
It seems I can always make the first guy miss against the CPU, always.

Raise CPU Run Block by 5 or 10
I found it too easy to stop the CPU running game.

Ban 5-Wide
Its cheese, impossible to line up 5 DBs.

To prevent stat whoring I've seen other leagues place limits on the numbers of yards you can have with a player in a game and for a season. You get over that number and you have to sit him for the game or even the rest of the season. Its nice because you don't have to deal with the absurd stats but is it too much? I don't know.

Kodos · 10-30-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike1409

I am good with these.
I would also raises the holding back to the original setting. After the change it is almost never called and I think there should be 6-7 penalties per team per game.

What setting should holding be put at? It's at 50 right now.

Kodos · 10-30-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

Thinking on this some more, maybe a 28 point lead is better. 21 is within the realm of a comeback. 28, you're pretty much going to win barring an epic meltdown.

The 28 point rule will be in effect in 2011. If you lead by 28 or more in the 2nd half, you must put in your second team players on offense.

cmp · 10-30-2010, 09:37 PM

Sounds good. Can't wait to get going again.

Eaglesfan27 · 10-30-2010, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

The 28 point rule will be in effect in 2011. If you lead by 28 or more in the 2nd half, you must put in your second team players on offense.

How do you sub in 2nd team players in human vs human games. I wanted to do so in 1 game, and couldn't find the usual option. As it was, I manually subbed my QB and HB.

cmp · 10-30-2010, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

How do you sub in 2nd team players in human vs human games. I wanted to do so in 1 game, and couldn't find the usual option. As it was, I manually subbed my QB and HB.

I think that's the only way to do it in human games.

Kodos · 10-30-2010, 09:40 PM

Yeah. The mass subs option is available for human vs. human. I always thought that was an odd choice.

Kodos · 10-30-2010, 09:53 PM

Do we want to make an exception for human games?

Eaglesfan27 · 10-30-2010, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

Do we want to make an exception for human games?

I think we keep the rule at least for QB, HB, and top 2 WR's. It doesn't take too long to sub those positions. But, either way is fine with me.

Kodos · 10-30-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think we keep the rule at least for QB, HB, and top 2 WR's. It doesn't take too long to sub those positions. But, either way is fine with me.

That seems reasonable to me. I personally wouldn't mind waiting for full substitutions.

Mike1409 · 10-31-2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

What setting should holding be put at? It's at 50 right now.

I think 55 is where it was.

Grammaticus · 10-31-2010, 09:55 PM

Are we banning user catch in PvP games too? If so, I think you should still be able to do it on defense in PvP. Especially if we are leaving 5 wide on the table.

Kodos · 10-31-2010, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike1409

I think 55 is where it was.

Okay, I'll boost it to 55 the next time I'm on.

Kodos · 10-31-2010, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Are we banning user catch in PvP games too? If so, I think you should still be able to do it on defense in PvP. Especially if we are leaving 5 wide on the table.

I assume the ban applies to all games.

Kodos · 11-30-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Are we banning user catch in PvP games too? If so, I think you should still be able to do it on defense in PvP. Especially if we are leaving 5 wide on the table.

We should figure out what to do with this before the season starts. The lack of responses makes me think that the league sentiment is not to allow user catches in any situation.

cartman · 11-30-2010, 11:27 AM

But that might be a bit difficult to police, since I think the circle will move to the player closest to be ball.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-30-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

But that might be a bit difficult to police, since I think the circle will move to the player closest to be ball.

That is my only concern. Prater has a high 90's spectacular catch rating and he makes some catches that look like user catches. But, otherwise, I'm fully in favor of the ban.

Mike1409 · 11-30-2010, 12:00 PM

I never user catch on offense. I have intercepted passes trying to switch defenders.

How would we enforce this?

Kodos · 11-30-2010, 12:37 PM

I think it has to be the honor system. There really isn't another way, short of taking videos of supposed user catches and having someone decide if it was a user catch or not. Which of course I have no desire to get into. I think it should be allowable to switch to the player and move him, but not hit the catch button.

On defense, I rarely try to user catch anyway because I just don't have the coordination to do it successfully.

Balldog · 11-30-2010, 06:32 PM

There really is no way to enforce versus CPU other than the honor system, its a small group of guys playing. I'd hope we can respect one another to play by the same rules.

I don't like being able to switch to a DB and control him because you can run the WR off his route with no consequence since the game doesn't properly call pass interference. I had this happen to me a couple times last year.

Grammaticus · 11-30-2010, 06:58 PM

On offense it will show USER CATCH on the bottom of the screen if you do it. On defense it does not, but if the defender does the hurdle animation, the guy was pressing Y late and therefore obviously trying to user catch it.

10-28-2010, 05:29 AM	#2
Balldog Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Macomb, MI	I am ok with going to 7 minute quarters. Other things I'd like to see: Raise speed threshold to 45 Lowers the effectiveness of throwing to the Running Backs. Lowers the effectiveness of running outside. Overall reduces big plays, which I think has a lot to do with the high scoring. Make the game a little tougher. Raise CPU Tackle by 10 It seems I can always make the first guy miss against the CPU, always. Raise CPU Run Block by 5 or 10 I found it too easy to stop the CPU running game. Ban 5-Wide Its cheese, impossible to line up 5 DBs. To prevent stat whoring I've seen other leagues place limits on the numbers of yards you can have with a player in a game and for a season. You get over that number and you have to sit him for the game or even the rest of the season. Its nice because you don't have to deal with the absurd stats but is it too much? I don't know. Last edited by Balldog : 10-28-2010 at 05:44 AM.

10-28-2010, 05:49 PM	#6
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	I'm behind everything except the 5 WR set ban. That I'm on the fence on as it would eliminate a lot of team's playbooks. For example, that would take away about 20% of the USC offensive playbook, but I know it would be a much higher percentage for other teams. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

10-29-2010, 12:17 AM	#16
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	So no controlling the WR at all before he catches it? __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

10-30-2010, 09:40 PM	#24
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Yeah. The mass subs option is available for human vs. human. I always thought that was an odd choice. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

10-30-2010, 09:53 PM	#25
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Do we want to make an exception for human games? __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

10-28-2010, 09:27 PM	#13
Balldog Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Macomb, MI	One more that is common in most of the OS leagues is banning User Catch.

10-30-2010, 09:37 PM	#21
cmp Pro Rookie Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Grand Rapids, MI	Sounds good. Can't wait to get going again.

10-31-2010, 09:55 PM	#29
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	Are we banning user catch in PvP games too? If so, I think you should still be able to do it on defense in PvP. Especially if we are leaving 5 wide on the table.

11-30-2010, 11:27 AM	#33
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	But that might be a bit difficult to police, since I think the circle will move to the player closest to be ball. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

11-30-2010, 12:00 PM	#35
Mike1409 High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: St. Pete, FL	I never user catch on offense. I have intercepted passes trying to switch defenders. How would we enforce this?

11-30-2010, 12:37 PM	#36
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I think it has to be the honor system. There really isn't another way, short of taking videos of supposed user catches and having someone decide if it was a user catch or not. Which of course I have no desire to get into. I think it should be allowable to switch to the player and move him, but not hit the catch button. On defense, I rarely try to user catch anyway because I just don't have the coordination to do it successfully. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties. Last edited by Kodos : 11-30-2010 at 12:37 PM.

11-30-2010, 06:32 PM	#37
Balldog Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Macomb, MI	There really is no way to enforce versus CPU other than the honor system, its a small group of guys playing. I'd hope we can respect one another to play by the same rules. I don't like being able to switch to a DB and control him because you can run the WR off his route with no consequence since the game doesn't properly call pass interference. I had this happen to me a couple times last year.

11-30-2010, 06:58 PM	#38
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	On offense it will show USER CATCH on the bottom of the screen if you do it. On defense it does not, but if the defender does the hurdle animation, the guy was pressing Y late and therefore obviously trying to user catch it.

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