2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[ISiddiqui]

California is Gubernatorial appointment - so that'd be safely Dem

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I also realized a downside to Whitmer - if we are still fighting this pandemic into the fall, having a Governor take time out of that to campaign for VP would be a reaaaal bad look.

She also fucked up early on. So if part of the campaign is on how bad Trump handled this, it loses when we realize how many lives her mismanagement cost too.

Harris checks all the boxes. Has a good story, good speaker, and doesn't carry much baggage.

Are there any dark horses? Kind of surprised we never saw Duckworth's name pop up.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

California is Gubernatorial appointment - so that'd be safely Dem

There's also little chance they'd lose the seat in an election. Minnesota on the other hand, who knows?

Also should add that Governors matter. Especially when it comes to redistricting and voter rights. Losing Whitmer might mean ceding control of that state.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There's also little chance they'd lose the seat in an election. Minnesota on the other hand, who knows?

Also should add that Governors matter. Especially when it comes to redistricting and voter rights. Losing Whitmer might mean ceding control of that state.

Good point.

[ISiddiqui]

And you know, Biden-Harris would look nice on a bumper sticker.

I like Senator Duckworth, but her last name is just a bit strange (I thought the same for Governor Hickenlooper)

And Biden-Klobuchar would start looking like the strange looking Gore-Libermann (God, what a bad VP selection) signs.

[lungs]

I've seen Tammy Baldwin's name floated locally, though I wouldn't put money on it.

[Galaril]

Trump campaign going to try make the Election about Biden being pro China and not try to defend Trump virus response. That I think is a mistake on his part.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm leaning toward Harris because I think the party needs some energy and she'd bring it. It needs someone who can get on TV every day and blast out the message. We've seen Joe at this age and he just isn't going to be able to do it.

The downside of Klobuchar is you have to hope you don't lose that Senate seat. Plus she's a lot like Biden. Comes across as nice and folksy. I think the VP needs to be charging up the base and I just don't see that from her.

Whitmer is interesting and seems to be polling extremely well in a crucial state. Just don't know much about her. Would be skeptical of anyone who was part of a poor early state response.

I still think Warren would be his best pick. It'd be a bone toward the progressive wing of the party. She's really smart and could be put on TV every day blasting a message.

I agree with you Rainmaker. In order Harris, Warren and Whitmer. I also think a underdog pick like Val Demmings might be good. That could help with Southern, Black, female and Florida constituents. I am worried with Warren she could get a response like Clinton did from within the Bernie voting block and not sure she helps with black voters.

[stevew]

So this Larry King call?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...ault-claim.amp

Yes it’s fake news but that was the first link that came up.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yes it’s fake news but that was the first link that came up.

More fake news?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/25/polit...ing/index.html

[thesloppy]

Joe's gross. Super stoked that we'll have two 70+ year old sexual predators on a mental decline to choose from, come November.

[albionmoonlight]

It is pretty clear that Biden committed sexual assault in the past.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It is pretty clear that Biden committed sexual assault in the past.

I can't say I agree. It's pretty murky at best.

[Kodos]

I’d have to lean toward Biden being guilty here. Ugh.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I’d have to lean toward Biden being guilty here. Ugh.

What's your reasoning?

[thesloppy]

Her brother says he told her about it at the time, she says that's her mother calling Larry King and complaining about improprieties (tho it's certainly vague as could be, even if it is her mom), and she left Biden's employ abruptly at the time of the alleged incident.

By no means is it a mountain of evidence, or even a hill, but it is evidence. It's biased and entirely circumstantial, but it's all consistent.

[JPhillips]

The brother first said it was inappropriate touch on the neck and shoulders and then later added that Biden put his hands under her clothes.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

What's your reasoning?

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I can't say I agree. It's pretty murky at best.

Ever since #MeToo started, things always end up being worse for the guy than we initially thought. The smoke has always meant fire.

And we've learned that false accusations of assault are pretty much a myth.

So I want Biden to beat Trump. But I can't pretend he didn't do what he almost certainly did just b/c I want it to be true.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The brother first said it was inappropriate touch on the neck and shoulders and then later added that Biden put his hands under her clothes.

It sounds like the brother is only repeating the current story of the sister.

[JPhillips]

I absolutely believe that Biden was inappropriate for a superior with touching, but I struggle with the sexual penetration story. Her story has changed, the brother's story changed, the mother's call isn't the slam dunk some think it is. There's a pattern of him being too friendly with touch, but there's nothing in his past like this kind of reckless, public assault.

And then we know the Russians and domestic ratfuckers like Stone are again working with Trump's campaign. I don't want to dismiss her claims, but they aren't enough yet for me to believe the totality of her story.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

And we've learned that false accusations of assault are pretty much a myth.

Quite the opposite really.

[Brian Swartz]

Yeah what I've read indicates they are twice as likely to be false as accusations of other crimes, and estimates range in 4-10% range.

Every accusation should be taken seriously, and none should be ignored, but it's grossly immoral along with being foolish to assume an accusation is true as well. I don't know enough about the Biden stuff to form a solid opinion either way.

[Edward64]

I don't think there is smoke yet.

An analysis below on how credible the accusation is.

https://arcdigital.media/joe-bidens-...a-a8d16bbe0ddd

What I've read is there's been other accusations of Biden's unwanted "touching". I can easily see uncle/grandpa Joe inappropriately hugging, patting the back, touching face etc. Here's a list

Every Joe Biden Allegation & Accusation From Women

None of the above rises to the level of Reade's accusation of "penetrated with fingers".

[GrantDawg]

The ever changing story, the strong praise for Biden in the past specifically on how he dealt with women's issues, the strange praise of Putin after being a strong critic of his, all of it doesn't add up.

[Kodos]

It's definitely murky. After reading Edward's 1st link, I guess I'm in the camp of he probably did things that made her uncomfortable, but the hands up her skirt accusation seems pretty questionable (not a lot of credible corroboration).

I don't want to believe he did it. In a court of law, there probably isn't enough credible evidence to convict. It'd be nice to have a slam dunk he didn't do it case, but of course that's not really possible.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I absolutely believe that Biden was inappropriate for a superior with touching, but I struggle with the sexual penetration story. Her story has changed, the brother's story changed, the mother's call isn't the slam dunk some think it is. There's a pattern of him being too friendly with touch, but there's nothing in his past like this kind of reckless, public assault.

And then we know the Russians and domestic ratfuckers like Stone are again working with Trump's campaign. I don't want to dismiss her claims, but they aren't enough yet for me to believe the totality of her story.

Not only that, but this current call into King probably makes it less likely the penetration story is true. I mean she calls up, saying her daughter is having issues with a respected Senator but respects him too much to take it to the press. I can see a victim being scared to speak out, but a mother of said victim being this calm about things (and not wanting to rip is spine out) seems strange to me... unless it was the unwanted shoulder touching that Reade's story had been.

[panerd]

Two accused sexual predators! Let's do everything we can to keep a 3rd party out of the debates and process though, because you know...

#ourteam
#supremecourtappointmentstooimportanttocareaboutsexualassaultclaims #thesethingsonlymatterwhensomeoneontheothersidedoesit #obligatoryrussianreferencewhenmyguyscharactercantbedefended

EDIT: Won't call any out by name but actually quite pleased that some aren't playing the L/R game. The usual suspects still are obviously, would love to see this restraint from them in the Kavanaugh thread may have to revisit to see if "The Russians did it!" there also.

[albionmoonlight]

Personally, I hate that this election is forcing me to admit to myself that credible accusations of sexual assault are not a deal breaker for me.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Personally, I hate that this election is forcing me to admit to myself that credible accusations of sexual assault are not a deal breaker for me.

Actually appreciate your honesty. I do remember a lot of Democrats on here could not for the life of them understand how one could vote "R" for the party and not for Trump. And from what I recall they were all somehow racist as well because of it. Will be interesting this fall to see how many D voters are anti-woman I guess?

I find it mind boggling on both sides but I am just a mindless stooge who thinks maybe there should be more alternatives to the most important position in the world than Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Personally, I hate that this election is forcing me to admit to myself that credible accusations of sexual assault are not a deal breaker for me.

When the other viable option is DEFINITELY a sexual offender by his own statements and has shown that he has no morals and no ability to handle a real crisis like the coronavirus.

Out driving this weekend, I saw two "Anyone But Trump" signs. That about sums it up.

[molson]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Personally, I hate that this election is forcing me to admit to myself that credible accusations of sexual assault are not a deal breaker for me.

If it's between those two, I'd take serial killer Biden over Trump.

Though I guess there's a point where the Dems should pressure Biden to drop out and replace him. I don't think we're close to that with what we have.

[bronconick]

In general when a President is running for re-election, it's a referendum on said President. Given how badly Trump wants all the attention all the time its even more the case. Biden is just sitting there and watching Trump flop around like a dying fish over his corona response.

[JPhillips]

Today's new statement from the former neighbor is really bad.

[Vegas Vic]

If nothing else, the Bernie Bros see this as a significant issue.

New Biden accuser tape, CNN silence stir discord among Sanders Democrats

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

If nothing else, the Bernie Bros see this as a significant issue.

New Biden accuser tape, CNN silence stir discord among Sanders Democrats

I’m as critical of Bernie supporters as just about anyone on here, but I’d say they have a valid point.

[JPhillips]

Shaun King isn't the supporter to lead things, though.

[BishopMVP]

On the one hand I'm also surprised at the 27 year old penetration allegations. On the other hand, Creepy Uncle Joe being overly touchy was a meme before memes were a thing so this also seems like something we all should have seen coming.

Oh well, Bernie isn't the answer I want either & I don't think the Dem establishment would end up going with any of the younger candidates I actually like, so I'll just bite my tongue & watch the more vocal people try to explain why this is different than when Trump or Kavanagh were accused & convicted in the liberal side's court of public opinion.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

On the one hand I'm also surprised at the 27 year old penetration allegations. On the other hand, Creepy Uncle Joe being overly touchy was a meme before memes were a thing so this also seems like something we all should have seen coming.

Oh well, Bernie isn't the answer I want either & I don't think the Dem establishment would end up going with any of the younger candidates I actually like, so I'll just bite my tongue & watch the more vocal people try to explain why this is different than when Trump or Kavanagh were accused & convicted in the liberal side's court of public opinion.

They will say something about the Russians.


It's not any different. It's like when John Edwards had a baby mama that wasn't covered by the mainstream media until he dropped out of the race. Perfect time to vote 3rd party. "You really want one of those loons running the country?" No of course not with such high quality candidates as Donald Trump and a man who is clearly losing his mind.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by panerd

They will say something about the Russians.


It's not any different. It's like when John Edwards had a baby mama that wasn't covered by the mainstream media until he dropped out of the race. Perfect time to vote 3rd party. "You really want one of those loons running the country?" No of course not with such high quality candidates as Donald Trump and a man who is clearly losing his mind.

Tulsi Gaabbard time?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by panerd

They will say something about the Russians.


It's not any different. It's like when John Edwards had a baby mama that wasn't covered by the mainstream media until he dropped out of the race. Perfect time to vote 3rd party. "You really want one of those loons running the country?" No of course not with such high quality candidates as Donald Trump and a man who is clearly losing his mind.

I almost always vote 3rd party. Trump is bad enough I'll be checking the D box regardless of how much I think the DNC is also corrupt and incompetent.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I actually like, so I'll just bite my tongue & watch the more vocal people try to explain why this is different than when Trump or Kavanagh were accused & convicted in the liberal side's court of public opinion.

This is going to be fascinating to me. I suspect as this picks up steam Fox News will have a lot of Karens on clutching their pearls about horrible Joe Biden who were the same ones calling Christine Blasey Ford a vindictive attention monger.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

It's not any different. It's like when John Edwards had a baby mama that wasn't covered by the mainstream media until he dropped out of the race. Perfect time to vote 3rd party. "You really want one of those loons running the country?" No of course not with such high quality candidates as Donald Trump and a man who is clearly losing his mind.

I think the media bias argument gets overblown many times, but it's clear here. This has been covered by outlets, but not to the extent you would expect if it was a Republican. None of the potential VP candidate were asked about it when they were on TV.

I haven't read much about this but it seems like more comes out each day. He's had this reputation for awhile so it shouldn't be much of a shock.

This also isn't a "Bernie" thing or "Russian plot" or "conservative smear job". There are a lot of people on the left that viewed Kavannaugh and Trump's past as disqualifying. They have to decide if that was how they truly feel or was it just partisan games? Feels more like the support for women in the movement was just to score some points.

Not really sure what can be done. Doesn't seem like the public cares about this stuff considering Trump got elected and Bill is still a popular figure. So I'm guessing this story will come and go and people will ignore it at the polls (especially when Biden is up against an admitted sex offender). =

If there was a huge groundswell of support behind someone else like Cuomo, you could probably make the switch at the convention. But that would be risky. Otherwise just continue to play politics and use accusations of sexual assault as serious when it is politically valuable.

[RainMaker]

Curious, does anyone know of any national polls with Cuomo approval? Or just how he'd fare in a Presidential race?

I've seen that he is incredibly popular in New York, but wonder if the rest of the country has taken a liking to him.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I almost always vote 3rd party. Trump is bad enough I'll be checking the D box regardless of how much I think the DNC is also corrupt and incompetent.

Likely the same here. I mean Trump is that bad. It's just humorous that the gist of the Trump Presidency thread is that all "R" voters are complacent for everything he does (and usually somehow they are all racists as well) because they can't just be voting Republican and most be voting for the candidate. Now that Biden has a pretty scary skeleton in his closet it's perfectly acceptable to just vote for the party regardless of the candidate.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Curious, does anyone know of any national polls with Cuomo approval? Or just how he'd fare in a Presidential race?

I've seen that he is incredibly popular in New York, but wonder if the rest of the country has taken a liking to him.

Michelle Obama should be who they would seriously consider. Cuomo would have a lot of trouble running on any sort of coronavirus mishandling when outside of his bark he mismanaged New York in a similar way.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Lathum

This is going to be fascinating to me. I suspect as this picks up steam Fox News will have a lot of Karens on clutching their pearls about horrible Joe Biden who were the same ones calling Christine Blasey Ford a vindictive attention monger.

Which is exactly the point. Nobody cares about these incidents it's all about when these incidents occur on the "other team".

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Curious, does anyone know of any national polls with Cuomo approval? Or just how he'd fare in a Presidential race?

Politicians who aren't actually running for things are always very popular.

No one has run one national attack ad against Cuomo. No one has dug into his closet.

I'd bet he has incredibly favorable polling right now b/c people's sense of him is "governor who seems to be doing a pretty good job, I guess."

If he enters the race in a formal way, people will start to look at him, find stuff they don't like, and his numbers will come down to normal candidate numbers.

[bob]

Is he doing a good job? A lot of people have died in NY and he and NYC major feuded about closing things down. I think his main positive is that he has bitched about Trump.

[HerRealName]

What happens if Biden is out? I guess a brokered convention Veep-style.

As messy as that sounds, I'd certainly prefer this to Biden staying in the race and would undoubtedly lead to a better candidate.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by panerd

Which is exactly the point. Nobody cares about these incidents it's all about when these incidents occur on the "other team".

Nobody but you, the one true arbiter of right and wrong.