Game of Thrones on HBO

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Doesn't Khaleesi now have stone person disease from Mormont taking her hand?

A thing from the books was the Targaryens being much more resistant to disease than mere mortals.

[Kodos]

Hi. My name is Khaleesi, and I suffer from SPD -- Stone Person Disease...

[SteveMax58]

Agree with the criticisms that there were more plot holes than a $300 porno but.....DROGON!!!!!!

I've come to the same conclusion on GoT as I have on Walking Dead...I'd rather be entertained, albeit with plot holes, than bored with plodding minutiae when we only get 1 episode a week to watch. Sometimes I can't suspend my disbelief enough, and my annoyance gets the best of me, but thats what I aim for at least.

Now as for the episode itself. Very good (read: entertaining) and moved along some things nicely, others not so nicely.

* Dorne...ok I guess all this was just to end up with the lovebirds going back to Kings Landing & no other major changes. No revenge, no new enemies, no dead enemies...pretty much where we started only Bronn's awesomeness got him some future hookup potential.

* Stannis, Stannis, Stannis....I have read here & elsewhere how much people "liked" (to the extent GRRM allows you to like anybody) Stannis from the books. I'm guessing the book Stannis didn't burn his only daughter alive. And not only that, but it was planned out to make sure Davos was not around. The tv show Stannis appears weak, reliant upon things he doesn't understand (e.g. dumb), and lacking clarity of character. I'm not sure how anybody follows this guy to the local watering hole, let alone into battle. He is completely uninspiring as a character & a leader.

* Arya - no complaints here, other than it seems obvious where this is going (short term anyway). Awaiting progression on this storyline....still.

* F---ING DRAGONS!!! - Yeah Jorah looked like a struggling old man rather than an elite fighter here. And yeah its lame that the only person who noticed the Harpys was the same old man from 100+ ft away. But a couple of nice things did happen here, and the story progresses. Jorah is back (so it seems) finally, that dipshit is dead (and I think he was behind it, but simply a casualty of the chaos), Tyrion takes somebody out, and Dany is all-in on her dragons now (presumably). It did give me a slight feeling of watching the Neverending Story as she flew away....but eh, what can you do? They are dragons and they fly, and if you ride them, thats what it looks like I suppose. Cannot wait for this part of the story to advance even further.

[Kodos]

Seeing the dragon do something important was nice. Even if the scene was a bit ham-fisted.

[Coffee Warlord]

At the very least, it was nice to hear the good old Dragons Fucking Shit Up theme song. I love that tune.

[ISiddiqui]

But, OTOH, who stays around to fight a dragon?

[Honolulu_Blue]

They've been changing things since the first episode. Some of them small. Some of them big. Many of these changes were to fix things that wouldn't work on TV, but a significant number were just bald-faced improvements to the existing material. So, I disagree with the notion that most of new stuff hasn't been good. A lot of it has worked or has been an improvement. Not all, but their batting average has been very solid.

For example, Jon Snow being in Hardhome during the attack, I consider that an improvement. We finally get to SEE why we should fear the walkers, rather than just being TOLD about it. Great tension-building moments: the giant, the Night's King, the Valyrian steel, "I fucking hate Thenns," the woman that gets eaten by kiddie wights...powerful stuff.

As for Shireen, I'm about 90% sure that's a Winds of Winter spoiler. They've been building up to Stannis's need for royal blood for what, FIVE books now? It makes sense that he'd dump the last of his humanity to placate his ego, and I'm okay with that narrative. It was horrible to watch and hear, but powerful and brilliant.

As for Dany and the Pits and how that all went down, I think Drogon showing up to defend his mother is FAR more compelling than Drogon just being "attracted" to the blood and just sorta showing up. I am not sure how many Sons of the Harpy were left after Drogon flew off, but seeing a dragon eat and burn many of your people would tend to break the morale of even the stoutest warriors. I can believe that the rest fled and/or were mopped up by Daario and the remaining Unsullied.

Dorne did still suck, but at least there's not much of it. They don't have much to work with, after all. Jaime is struggling to stay relevant to the story and the writers (Martin and Benioff/Weiss) are having the same problem. He really has nothing to do.

[Neon_Chaos]

Stannis was the last straw for me, I think.

Fuck Westeros.

Winter is coming. The mother of dragons is coming. Westeros will be swept in ice and fire, and I will relish it.

[whomario]

I thought the actions of the Harpy-Dudes was right in line with what happened earlier this season. Yeah they sneaked around but they also went out and killed dozens of people in broad daylight and then also trapped a patrol taking heavy losses in a "no matter what it takes" kind of deal. I think actually merely killing Dany was never enough, they needed to spread terror. To decide to attack on the opening of the fighting pits, which supposedly would make everything better for the people of Mereen + Dany, makes sense to me.

As for the scene itself: The difference between this and Hardhome was that we got lost in the action and there were too many characters too follow. But maybe that was how it was intended, too. And quite possibly would not have seemed so out of place if it had not come directly after the massacre at Hardhome.

As for the idea of an order (?) of rich people (they are fighting for the old order, who else could it be ?) operating like japanese kamikaze and being built of so many ... Was that Martins idea or GOT-exclusive ? Because that to me makes very little sense.

That Stannis is just an alien being now. But i guess this is the point. Up until now you could relate to him, now you can´t. And you shouldn´t.

Overall, definitely a lack of subtlety in terms of writing. I mean, i guess they wanted to make sure everybody understood what is now the status quo: Westeros is not able to heal from within.

[spleen1015]

Zoinks!

[Kodos]

Yes, that seems like a HUGE spoiler unless we are misunderstanding what he wrote.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah... HB needs to add some spoiler tags or remove it or something.

[Chief Rum]

I PM'd him.

[whomario]

Also: How come no one in this world ever thinks about bringing a bow and arrow along ? Or a throwing knife ? (ping: Sons of the harpy. And no, throwing your spears at the dragon later on does not count ...)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by whomario

Also: How come no one in this world ever thinks about bringing a bow and arrow along ? Or a throwing knife ? (ping: Sons of the harpy)

well, at least Jorah made use of what he had lying around.

Just positing because I have no idea, but maybe bows and arrows aren't super big there in Mereen? I can't recall seeing them in use much. It might be an area thing. Slaver's Bay only appears to differ much from the Red Waste in that it is closer to the ocean--it's more or less desert and there aren't many trees there. So spears (even wooden spears which use less wood than a bow and arrows would over the life of the weapon) would make more sense.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Just positing because I have no idea, but maybe bows and arrows aren't super big there in Mereen? I can't recall seeing them in use much. It might be an area thing. Slaver's Bay only appears to differ much from the Red Waste in that it is closer to the ocean--it's more or less desert and there aren't many trees there. So spears (even wooden spears which use less wood than a bow and arrows would over the life of the weapon) would make more sense.

yeah, definitely a good thought. Still, the point is that to me it is not enough to create a pre-gun world and have me buy that you can only kill men (or Queens) from 2 feet away

what made it the weirdest and which i forgot in the other post: Your target was standing right there ! Next to the dragon you kept throwing spears on !

I was actually entertained by the episode, but i am very close to the edge as far as the overall story goes. I suppose that, at the end of the day, i need some semblance of "morality". Ambiguity and non-happy-end style for the sake of it is not mine and over the 5 seasons (and i guess the books) it feels like that is what has been going on.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Fuuuuck.

Sorry guys.

Edited.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Fuuuuck.

Sorry guys.

Edited.

Damnit. Now I wanna see what was written.

[stevew]

Olly doing Olly menace things again.


I understand the defense of "Previously on..." But this week was completely unsubtle and I need to make more of an effort to not watch.


So is Drogon fully grown? Seems like spears could have worked easily, or at least the only person in BRIGHT WHITE" in the arena would have been an easy target.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Damnit. Now I wanna see what was written.

No, you don't.

[Solecismic]

Stannis... there have been some cold-hearted peeps in this story, well chronicled by Arya and her own whimsical version of the Lord's Prayer, but damn.

I guess it makes sense when you think of how Renly met his end. At least Renly was doing something in the context of war.

But there's no coming back from Shireen. It makes Sansa's wedding night look like Annette and Frankie on the beach by comparison. Definitely the saddest scene in the television version to date. And maybe the most pointless. Now the Stannis/Bolton cage match seems like trying to decide between rooting for Kentucky or Kansas in college basketball when you're a Big Ten fan.

The fight scenes have always been a bit silly. Even when accompanied by awesome special effects like the Hardhomme melee from last week. Just suspend disbelief. We're supposed to believe Jorah was once the world's greatest fighter, and would have had zero trouble in the pits when he was younger.

Every once in a while, he pulls something out of his book of fighting tricks, like an aging Peyton Manning serving up the long-spear from 50 yards.

I'm still wondering what there is to like in Dany, especially now that *spoiler alert* she hasn't been doing nudity for the last couple of seasons and has said she won't in the future. But the dragon thing is still compelling and it was fun watching Tyrion take apart Hizdahr before the Harpies, well, took apart Hizdahr.

I'm not done with GoT at all, but the Shireen-burning was not right.

[miked]

Yeah, I never read the books, but I can't see why anyone likes Stannis. If you are going to battle, are you following the guy who burns his daughter alive? So far he's killed his brother, got his army mostly destroyed in the Battle of Blackwater, and is just a general asshole. He does everything because he thinks he should be king which makes him really unlikeable. Like Cersei unlikeable.

[Vince, Pt. II]

You get a lot more insight into his character in the books. I don't like him in the books either, but it's easy to see why people who've read the books like him.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Kodos

No, you don't.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by miked

Yeah, I never read the books, but I can't see why anyone likes Stannis. If you are going to battle, are you following the guy who burns his daughter alive? So far he's killed his brother, got his army mostly destroyed in the Battle of Blackwater, and is just a general asshole. He does everything because he thinks he should be king which makes him really unlikeable. Like Cersei unlikeable.

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

You get a lot more insight into his character in the books. I don't like him in the books either, but it's easy to see why people who've read the books like him.

I am a Stannis fan. In the show he wants to be King due to ambition. In the books, he doesn't want to be King, but believes it is his right and duty, esp in taking the throne from the Lannisters. He talks with Davos a lot about saving the realm (though Davos tends to be a major catalyst there). And would any other King make someone like Davos his Hand? Especially after Davos told Stannis he wasn't acting like he should?

[stevew]

Who is heir to the throne now? Myrcella and Tristane?

Robert has no male kids left. Is Stannis legit the next heir?

[ISiddiqui]

Stannis as always been the legit next heir after Robert if you accept Robert's claim over the Targaryens.

[stevew]

Ok, all that aside, if Tommen dies who is king?

[bronconick]

Myrcella

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Myrcella

I think that's incorrect, but I could be wrong.

[ISiddiqui]

It depends on if you follow the Dornish tradition or the rest-of-Westeros tradition .

Of course, it's never been made clear if women can inherit the throne.

[stevew]

If Tommen dies, Myrcella's husband (mostly Trystane Martell of Dorne) will inherit the Iron Throne. The claim of a child, even if its a girl, is stronger than that of brother. So Stannis cannot claim the Throne - rebel or not. The Lannisters will remain important in King's Landing, though not as much as they are now.

Google ftw. I shoulda just checked

Wonder if the sand snakes would try to hit Tommen next season?

[whomario]

I think theres no such thing as “the lannisters“ anymore without tywin. I think not showing anything of tommen or how its going in Kings landing (well, outside the dungeon) is curious. How powerfull is the Sparrow ? Seems to me that we are at level “theocracy“ in Kings landing. There is no king or high councel right now. Only an isolated teenage Boy locked in his chambers. And a highly organized and millitarised order apparently calling the shots. They arrested the queen, her brother and the kings mother and no one complained it would seem. And who would ?

And apparently no one in dorne is aware (then again, it was a short season in “told time“). Gonna be a rude awakening for the Delegation from dorne. Heck, Jamie propably has not all that much connection to the lannister Ressources as is and technically he cant be heir as kings guard, right ?

Technically/by the letter Stannis kinda IS the king right now though since Tommen is as illegitimate as Joffrey. (Ignoring the whole rebellion thingy...)

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I'm with Drake, that episode was ass. The whole Arya-Meryn Trant thing was weird. And do they really need to beat us over the head with 'he's an asshole' anymore? We get it, he's a terrible person. Cool. But if Arya can be invisible while selling clams, does she really need a blatantly obvious in for tomorrow's underage fuckbuddy?

The Dorne stuff was the highlight for me, and even that was relatively weak. What the hell was the point of the scene between Jaime and Ellaria at the end? Knowing what I know from the books, I'm disappointed as hell in this whole interlude. They've taken some of my favorite secondary characters and made them much less interesting.

Also, hooray Dany for flying away on Drogon. We're supposed to believe now that despite the fact that the Sons of the Harpy were willing to fight back and throw spears at a fucking DRAGON, once they flew away they were perfectly willing to be put down by a midget, a seriously wounded fighter who looked like crap in the fighting pits, Daario and a handful of Unsullied? Who were all getting their asses kicked just two minutes ago? Blech.

I had a comic book guy moment as soon as they burned her at the stake that continued to the end.

Just so pointless. I get life is worthless in Westeroo blah blah but that just seemed like a doing it because we can moment. Did absolutely nothing for the plot. The first time I can think of in recent memory where I nearly turned something off because I was offended. Almost the whole episode was shit and shows how much bad camera and bad writing can impact good acting.

The dragon showing up was fantastic for ten seconds but then she hops on like see ya dudes and all of a sudden the enemy just vanishes. Also, please stop using spears and five dudes to protect the queen.

As great as the previous episode was I'm afraid the stopping in three feet of water may have been a terrible foreshadowing. I hope it wasn't.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Did absolutely nothing for the plot.

I think that sacrificing Shireen was necessary for the plot. Stannis can't march forward in the curent weather (and without siege weapons). They'll all starve if they stay where they're at. They might make it back to Castle Black, but who knows how many years winter will take. His only real option was to sacrifice her hoping that the Lord of Light grants him some sort of favor. Whether it was pointless or not remains to be seen.

That said, it was horrific. The screams. I thought I had been preparing myself for it for a couple weeks, but it didn't help. I had been hoping that Selyse and Melisandre would do it behind Stannis' back. I thought maybe that would've made it easier to continue to root for Stannis over the Boltons, but now I just don't know. What happens in the next episode may very well determine if I continue to watch the series or not.

[TexasT]

Originally Posted by Ryno

I think that sacrificing Shireen was necessary for the plot. Stannis can't march forward in the curent weather (and without siege weapons). They'll all starve if they stay where they're at. They might make it back to Castle Black, but who knows how many years winter will take. His only real option was to sacrifice her hoping that the Lord of Light grants him some sort of favor. Whether it was pointless or not remains to be seen.

That said, it was horrific. The screams. I thought I had been preparing myself for it for a couple weeks, but it didn't help. I had been hoping that Selyse and Melisandre would do it behind Stannis' back. I thought maybe that would've made it easier to continue to root for Stannis over the Boltons, but now I just don't know. What happens in the next episode may very well determine if I continue to watch the series or not.

Agree. I am a big fan of the books and show but that scene made me actually sick to my stomach. Fantasy or not, that was horrible. How could two parents stand by and watch grinning witch bitch burn their daughter alive. That was sick. Nothing was worth that. Nothing.

[stevew]

I think the sacrifice is consistent with Stannis' descent into religious fanaticism and literally the fate of the kingdom is at stake.

[Coffee Warlord]

I've never really felt Stannis was a religious fanatic. I think he's just utterly ruthless when it comes to doing what he thinks needs to be done. It's not like he hasn't had plenty of proof that Mellisandre gets results. The temptation is just too great to do horrible horrible things, if it works.

That said, I really hope this is the last straw for Davos. Stannis doesn't deserve such loyalty.

[Kodos]

We can hope for mutual annihilation between Stannis and the Boltons

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Kodos

We can hope for mutual annihilation between Stannis and the Boltons

With Sansa uniting the north and the Iron Born with the Stark-Greyjoy alliance!

(no, not seriously... well I'm cool with the first four words I wrote)

[Coffee Warlord]

Brienne goes all Sir Lancelot from Monty Python, storms the castle, and murders every living thing there.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Grover

With Sansa uniting the north and the Iron Born with the Stark-Greyjoy alliance!

(no, not seriously... well I'm cool with the first four words I wrote)

With Sansa uniting the...? lol

[Arles]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

* Stannis, Stannis, Stannis....I have read here & elsewhere how much people "liked" (to the extent GRRM allows you to like anybody) Stannis from the books. I'm guessing the book Stannis didn't burn his only daughter alive. And not only that, but it was planned out to make sure Davos was not around. The tv show Stannis appears weak, reliant upon things he doesn't understand (e.g. dumb), and lacking clarity of character. I'm not sure how anybody follows this guy to the local watering hole, let alone into battle. He is completely uninspiring as a character & a leader.

You have to look at his decisions in context of the time and what they are dealing with. Stannis knows this "kings blood" thing works from Renly and after the burning of his camp, he doesn't have many options. Option 1 is he doesn't burn his daughter and invoke the "God of Light", he then either lets his camp starve/freeze or attacks Winterfell with no siege weapons and few horses. Option 2 is he sacrifices his daughter and gets the assistance to potentially win his siege and get closer to reclaiming (what he feels is) his right to the throne. If I were some foot soldier in his army, I'd much rather him go option 2 than 1. So, I think it shows a lot of leadership to put the betterment of the many (and his cause) above his own personal relationships. "Bad" leadership would have been to sit and watch Shireen and most of his soldiers starve to death or get throttled in a half-ass siege attempt.

All that said, this show keeps finding more and more ways to drain the pool of watchable behavior. First flaying was bad enough, but then they doubled down on rape. And just when you thought the bottom had been reached, they caught a "burn my daughter alive while watching" on the river to win the hand again.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

With Sansa uniting the...? lol

Yes. Incomplete sentences.

[stevew]

I love how nobody is around to get revenge on the Freyd, but we'll know when it happens because they'll tease it in the opening segment.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by stevew

I love how nobody is around to get revenge on the Frey's, but we'll know when it happens because they'll tease it in the opening segment

One of the smurfs will finally get that dam Gargamel

[Grammaticus]

I didn't like Stannis in the books and I don't like Stannis in the series.

I always wanted John Snow to end up being the Targaryn bastard and end up ruling the Seven Kingdoms.

[finkenst]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I didn't like Stannis in the books and I don't like Stannis in the series.

I always wanted John Snow to end up being the Targaryn bastard and end up ruling the Seven Kingdoms.

Spoiler

that's one of the theories. He's the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar

[stevew]

Brianne being near the Wall and also having a Valyrian steel sword is merely a coincidence, right? I guess her book path is wildly different but I'm wondering if the Sansa thing will get even worse and heading to the Wall will be the only honorable path she has left.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Brienne goes all Sir Lancelot from Monty Python, storms the castle, and murders every living thing there.

Then Sansa burns her at the stake in a plot twist.