FOFC Religion (or lack thereof) Poll

[Izulde]

We've fairly well established that FOFC has a liberal/left slant, so I was curious about it from a religious (or not) perspective. Note: for Jewish and Catholic, I mean religious Jewish/Catholic rather than cultural.

[lungs]

I was raised in a Christian denomination that does not have a name. In my area it goes back to the Swiss/German settlers that would meet in houses and that tradition continues to this day. It is a fairly conservative group but not at all fire and brimstone. With adult baptism, I chose not join. My father gave me the choice when I was like 11-12 years old (I can't remember exactly when) whether I wanted to continue and I chose not to. My mother was a Catholic that stopped practicing as an adult and was never into my dad's group so she stopped going when my oldest sister stopped.

I'd best classify myself as agnostic now. I don't presume we humans actually know what happens when we die. In the meantime, I try to best practice keeping what I consider our 'animal urges' in check (without completely surpresssing them!).

When Christians question my views on Christianity, there are a few fundamental things I will never be able to acknowledge as truth:

1) Jesus being literal son of God.
2) The resurrection

To me, Jesus was a mortal philosopher.

[molson]

I consider myself a Lutheran even though I don't go to church unless I'm visiting my parents. But I grew up very Lutheran, my father was a pastor, I did the summer camp, have so many friends to this day through that. It was all an incredible positive experience for me, I'm glad I was raised that way. There was never any hate preached, nobody cared about abortion or gay marriage, it was all about trying to become a better person through understanding humanity, and prayer, and spiritual exploration, and having a personal, individual relationship with god.

I don't think much anymore about the literal truth of any of the dogma. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other, it's not relevant to what I get from the faith and prayer, etc. If I really broke down the nuts and bolts of my beliefs though, I'd sound more agnostic. I'm open to lots of different spiritual perspectives. I feel there's a lot that we can't possibly understand as mere humans, but that we can experience certain connections with some of those things if we work at it. I do believe all of those things COULD be explained scientifically, us humans just won't ever have the ability to do that.

I really don't like militant atheists. People who will put me into a group and make assumptions. People who don't understand or acknowledge any value or belief system between hardcore atheism and literal truth of the bible, and shit on and group anything beyond hardcore atheism as a "worship of sky daddies" or whatever. And even though I'm not big participator in religion, unnecessary hostility towards those who find value in organized religion annoys me a lot too. I'm in the age group and social circles where I'm surrounded by people who make assumptions about others just based on this value they find in religion, and they express so much hate. I mostly bite my tongue, I'd rather just change the subject but with my closer friends I risk letting them in, when the opportunity presents itself, and try to very gently explain, with humor, over beers, how maybe they're not all terrible and they might be surprised if they learned what some of these people are really like.

[Izulde]

The divinity of Jesus was always my sticking point with Christianity, too. Else I probably would have been an adult convert to Catholicism. I was raised Lutheran, but never truly ascribed to it - always had an affinity for/comfort level with Catholicism that I've never been able to explain. My mother comes from a very long line of German Lutherans, and my dad had a strict Christian sect upbringing. I did have a brief Christian conversion my junior or senior year of high school, but that ended the second the pastor lambasted me in front of the whole youth group for espousing universalist views and multiple paths to divinity.

The neopagan/pagan conversion was a result of experiences starting with my first year of college, though it was quite a while before I finally shed my agnosticism and accepted the faith that was waiting for me all along.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by molson

I really don't like militant atheists. People who will put me into a group and make assumptions. People who don't understand or acknowledge any value or belief system between hardcore atheism and literal truth of the bible, and and shit on and group anything beyond hardcore atheism as a "worship of sky daddies" or whatever.

Same here. But I love to piss them off by pointing out they're not any different from the religious fundamentalists they hate so much - it's the same form of extremism, just with a different flavor.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Same here. But I love to piss them off by pointing out they're not any different from the religious fundamentalists they hate so much - it's the same form of extremism, just with a different flavor.

The seasoned ones have a built-in response for that, how they're superior and different from religions extremists.

I do try to temper my anger about that stuff a little bit around where I am. One, I'd rather just get along - I'm not willing to cut social ties over religious differences, and two, I recognize that in my geographic area especially, people have had very different experiences with religion than I did growing up. In some cases, they literally "escaped" a hateful family and hateful local church. So I try to take a step back from my anger and my own judgment, understand that different perspective. I don't "reveal" myself as a Christian in those circumstances, but I might work in shit about my own younger days around the church. I really think some of these people would be surprised what it was like. I just want them to see that perspective too.

Edit: I feel like northeast U.S. Lutheranism has some great bridges that can promote positivity and productive discussion when talking with the non-religious, or those escaping more hateful churches. We've had gay pastors for a long time, homosexuality was no big deal in a lot of churches even long before that, there's no strict rules (other than relating to how you treat others), we drink a lot, and Lutheran women are hot. I think, and hope, that that all gives me some "good guy Christian" cred with friends whose families have cut off contact with them for not following the church closely enough, or for being gay, etc. (Boise is filled with young people like that, who moved here away from their rural Idaho and Utah families and churches.)

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by molson

The seasoned ones have a built-in response for that, how they're superior and different from religions extremists.

I do try to temper my anger about that stuff a little bit around where I am. One, I'd rather just get along - I'm not willing to cut social ties over religious differences, and two, I recognize that in my geographic area especially, people have had very different experiences with religion than I did growing up. In some cases, they literally "escaped" a hateful family and hateful local church. So I try to take a step back from my anger and my own judgment, understand that different perspective. I don't "reveal" myself as a Christian in those circumstances, but I might work in shit about my own younger days around the church. I really think some of these people would be surprised what it was like. I just want them to see that perspective too.

True, there is all that, which is understandable. Certainly there's valid enough reason to hate religion as an institution, which is a formalized and codified hierarchy and expression of a particular spiritual path.

But then there's the whole matter of faith being separate from religion, and how it's possible to have faith without religion, and to be religious without faith - the latter by way of observing and performing the associated rituals and customs without having belief.

[heybrad]

Mormons didn't even make it as a choice?

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by heybrad

Mormons didn't even make it as a choice?

I considered that, and probably should have made them separate, TBH. My fault there. But I just put them under the Protestant umbrella.

[heybrad]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I considered that, and probably should have made them separate, TBH. My fault there. But I just put them under the Protestant umbrella.

No problem. It's all good.

[NobodyHere]

Athiest with Catholic values

[Thomkal]

I was raised German Lutheran as well. But despite attending church through most of my teenage years, religion never really "took" with me. I was interested in ancient history and mythology early on, and I think that contributed to this. Just could never believe in gods when so many of them I had read about simply disappeared when belief in them waned. Why should I believe in their replacements? Even as a historian, I need more than temples and ancient texts if Jesus/God/whomever wants me to believe in them.

I think Church/religions can be a good thing if they stay at the community level, especially with the poor. But when they try to get involved in the political sphere, they are more harm then good. Being gay and seeing most religions response to this lifestyle (though they are slowly changing), I feel that I am not wanted in many of them anyway. Earlier this year my mother told me about her pastor, a Lutheran, who would not go to a gay wedding as a guest. So why then should I bother to go to his church and hear him speak out against homosexuals?

I meant no offense to those who are devoutly religious by my words here.

[CarterNMA]

Atheist. And based off of some of my early childhood behavior, I may have been born this way.

[Julio Riddols]

I think my idea on the question of god revolves around the cyclical nature of time.. I feel like if there ever has been or ever will be a god, it will be or will have been one born from a hive mind or an artificial intelligence capable of simulating or experiencing the entire depth and breadth of humanity (or life in general) at any given moment.

In the past there have been so many iterations of god and it all seems like it started from the root of a lack of knowledge and fear of the unknown, so people gave the sun a name and likewise the stars, and from there it was defined ad hoc either for enforcement of rules and standards in society or for controlling the populace through fear.

While I believe the bible and other spiritual texts generally put forth a set of good moral standards and ideals, I feel like the interpretation and reinterpretation of the bible as it was written is similar to a game of telephone and that anyone who thinks they are 100% right about what it means and what any potential god wants from us is foolish.

That said, my grandfather was a devout christian (I believe he went to a lutheran church) and was one of the greatest men I have ever known or known about. The way he lived was so exemplary for me. I'll never try and tell someone they shouldn't believe what they want to believe because its not my place and because I know that everyone has a different reason for getting to where they are.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by CarterNMA

Atheist. And based off of some of my early childhood behavior, I may have been born this way.

This actually brings up a really fascinating idea to consider. While our faith or not faith is often the result of our experiences (whether upbringing or later personal experience), is it possible that we're born with a predisposition to one side or the other?

[Julio Riddols]

It is definitely something to consider, since alcoholism and things of that nature can be passed on in utero. I know my son prefers certain foods and certain types of music that are very much in tune with the things he was exposed to in the womb.. So maybe there is that vague familiarity that feels comforting to us in our youth, and for some of us it becomes something we grow to like ourselves when we get older. Others probably eventually grow out of their baby comforts and find their own contentment elsewhere, but I could see it being something that sticks from an early age.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Izulde

This actually brings up a really fascinating idea to consider. While our faith or not faith is often the result of our experiences (whether upbringing or later personal experience), is it possible that we're born with a predisposition to one side or the other?

Yeah, just read up on identical twins and religiosity.

[Edward64]

Non-practicing Catholic.

I grew up Catholic but am somewhat soft on and disagree with some of the dogma but overall still consider myself Catholic.

No literal interpretation for me. Use to come up with my more conservative Baptist friends and would joke/ask them, which Bible? The real "Catholic" Bible or the one that the Reformation changed around?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Non-practicing Catholic.

I grew up Catholic but am somewhat soft on and disagree with some of the dogma but overall still consider myself Catholic.

No literal interpretation for me. Use to come up with my more conservative Baptist friends and would joke/ask them, which Bible? The real "Catholic" Bible or the one that the Reformation changed around?

Same. My father grew up in New York, but was generally agnostic/atheist but my Grandmother insisted I be a practicing Catholic so I had the neat experience of growing up Catholic in the south!

[Kodos]

I'm somewhere on the atheist/agnostic part of the spectrum. I don't really believe that there is a God, but I also don't think I'm smart enough to say for sure either way definitively. There are certainly plenty of things out there that I don't understand. As long as you don't try to force your beliefs on me, we're good. I won't try to force mine on you.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I'm somewhere on the atheist/agnostic part of the spectrum. I don't really believe that there is a God, but I also don't think I'm smart enough to say for sure either way definitively. There are certainly plenty of things out there that I don't understand. As long as you don't try to force your beliefs on me, we're good. I won't try to force mine on you.

I am right here too.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Same. My father grew up in New York, but was generally agnostic/atheist but my Grandmother insisted I be a practicing Catholic so I had the neat experience of growing up Catholic in the south!

Heh, good to know we share that background.