Kate and Eight Minus John

[stevew]

Obviously not good news for the kids. But the divorce should be fun to watch.

I'd she is anything like her on screen personality I don't blame him.

[Schmidty]

I only heard of this show like a week ago. People still watch TLC?

I remember loving TLC back in the '90's when there were shows like "Paleoworld" and stuff like that. Once Christopher Lowell and random homemaking people took over, the network became poop.

[Maple Leafs]

My mother-in-law made me watch this two years ago and I started making "Jon and Kate minus one" jokes after five minutes. The women didn't understand, but I tried to explain that she was a nagging shrew, he was a beaten man, and he'd be out of there within a few years.

Recent events have proven me 100% right, which somehow means I'm not in trouble. Haven't figured that part out yet.

[stevew]

John could apparently take less than 6 5 year olds in a fight.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I only heard of this show like a week ago. People still watch TLC?

I remember loving TLC back in the '90's when there were shows like "Paleoworld" and stuff like that. Once Christopher Lowell and random homemaking people took over, the network became poop.

My wife puts it on from time to time and I leave the room ASAP. It's 30 minutes of kids screaming.

[Lorena]

I've seen a lot of my Facebook friends making comments about this family but I know absolutely nothing about them. Sounds like I'm missing out.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

My wife puts it on from time to time and I leave the room ASAP. It's 30 minutes of kids screaming.

My wife watches this show like a religion.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Lorena

I've seen a lot of my Facebook friends making comments about this family but I know absolutely nothing about them. Sounds like I'm missing out.

you're not

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Lorena

I've seen a lot of my Facebook friends making comments about this family but I know absolutely nothing about them. Sounds like I'm cooler than a lot of my Facebook friends

FYP!

[stevew]

I hope to god there is a cap on child support. Although maybe he figured paying out 3K a month to bail was worth it.

[DaddyTorgo]

she'll have the tv show still i presume - so she ought to be the one with $$ - if there's any justice he ought to be able to sue for spousal support.

that or this whole thing is a publicity ploy and they'll get back together in 6 months or something. just in time for the last episode of the season

[stevew]

True DT.

I thought the infidelity rumors were just disgusting attempts at publicity. If the divorce is just in line with promoting the show, they can both take a running start and Fuck off.

[sabotai]

I've heard of the show because of The Soup.

And yeah, Kate is a total self-centered bitch. I'd like to say I can't imagine how anyone could marry someone like that, but I know a few people who have...

[Mustang]

Poor kids.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Poor kids.

Indeed - what really surprised me in casual watching of the show was that they seemed like they started off as such a happy couple and family. Then as the fame and the freebies and all the money started rolling in all that became the focus and the seemingly normal and likable family they were went out the window. Its amazing how powerful money and fame is - you would think that they could have shut down the show, had plenty of money to live a very nice life and been able to spend the time in private to try and work on their family. Instead they're milking this thing for every last penny they can get and destroyed their family in the mean time.

[ColtCrazy]

My wife put it on DVR and after seeing this thread I sped to the end just to hear them speak. Jon just sounds like he wants out..he's over the whole ordeal. I agree with Gary, why wouldn't they just put things on hold then? She is very annoying and definitely belittles him at times, but she seems genuinely concerned about the kids. Just a terrible mess.

[Galaxy]

I watched this show one time after they started to pop up in all the news. Kate just seems like a self-centered bitch who wants to use her children (they like really fun, cute children) for her own gain.

[Comey]

My stepmom used to work with Jon (he used to work for PA State Gov't in some agency). She said Kate is, indeed, an unbelievable bitch.

[EagleFan]

I have only seen little parts of the show, mostly from clips I have seen emailed around. I really can't say one way or the other due to limited exposure but here is my unprofessional opinion on things anyway.


She seems to be a bitchy shrew who has to control every tiny little thing. She seems to have sucked the life out of him.

With that said, he seems like no prize either. He seems to need someone to act like his mom instead of a wife.

[clemsonfan]

I would have left Kate too. She's way too controlling. It's a shame that Jon didn't recognize that in the beginning.

[Ksyrup]

I've watched this for a couple of seasons because my wife watches it.

What amazes me is that they decided to go ahead with this season, knowing the problems they were having. If the kids are really that important to you, I think you owe it to them to take a 6-month hiatus from the show and try to work things out, or decide it's over and keep as much of it out of the media as possible. You want to go on with the show as a divorced couple? Fine, but the first episode should have been the announcement of the separation - in October, maybe. The way they've handled this suggests it's more about the money than anything. Signing up for a double season (40 episodes this season rather than the typical 20) - 95% of which are apparently going to be as a separated couple where they just shuffle the kids back and forth between the two of them and film them doing stuff separately - is outrageous, for people who repeatedly tell us they care about their kids.

It'll be interesting to see how the rating fare from this point forward. I guess there's something to be learned and some interest in seeing how the kids deal with the divorce, but given what this show used to be, I'm not sure people are going to want to tune in to witness the destruction of a relationship and see these kids used as the centerpiece of a TV show. It's one thing to start with the premise of a divorce, but it's another to take what used to be an otherwise happy family and continue filming the decline.

As a TV show, this thing jumped the shark when they started making up things for them to do every freaking week - sending them on vacations, having special guests, getting their vows renewed (which apparently occurred while all these problems were very much evident), getting the million dollar house, getting puppies, etc. - as opposed to just filming them living life. And I think that's probably when the relationship started to lose steam, too - they were more actors than spouses, trying to put on a good, entertaining show every week as opposed to just being a married couple with 8 kids.

I find it hard to believe that these two people don't recognize that all the money they are making from this show will not be enough to overcome the issues they are causing their kids. Very sad situation.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I've watched this for a couple of seasons because my wife watches it.

What amazes me is that they decided to go ahead with this season, knowing the problems they were having. If the kids are really that important to you, I think you owe it to them to take a 6-month hiatus from the show and try to work things out, or decide it's over and keep as much of it out of the media as possible. You want to go on with the show as a divorced couple? Fine, but the first episode should have been the announcement of the separation - in October, maybe. The way they've handled this suggests it's more about the money than anything. Signing up for a double season (40 episodes this season rather than the typical 20) - 95% of which are apparently going to be as a separated couple where they just shuffle the kids back and forth between the two of them and film them doing stuff separately - is outrageous, for people who repeatedly tell us they care about their kids.

It'll be interesting to see how the rating fare from this point forward. I guess there's something to be learned and some interest in seeing how the kids deal with the divorce, but given what this show used to be, I'm not sure people are going to want to tune in to witness the destruction of a relationship and see these kids used as the centerpiece of a TV show. It's one thing to start with the premise of a divorce, but it's another to take what used to be an otherwise happy family and continue filming the decline.

As a TV show, this thing jumped the shark when they started making up things for them to do every freaking week - sending them on vacations, having special guests, getting their vows renewed (which apparently occurred while all these problems were very much evident), getting the million dollar house, getting puppies, etc. - as opposed to just filming them living life. And I think that's probably when the relationship started to lose steam, too - they were more actors than spouses, trying to put on a good, entertaining show every week as opposed to just being a married couple with 8 kids.

I find it hard to believe that these two people don't recognize that all the money they are making from this show will not be enough to overcome the issues they are causing their kids. Very sad situation.

I've only watched a couple episodes, but these are my thoughts exactly.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Having seen an episode here or there, I'd agree it's a sad situation. Both of them are pretty self-centered. I'd agree with one of the other posters that most men who watched an episode or two of this should could quickly ascertain that this wasn't going to end well.

I did see that they're going to treat the current home as the "kids house". I wish that were because they wanted to keep the kids in one location, but I fear that decision was made so the camera crews wouldn't have to move between two locations.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Having seen an episode here or there, I'd agree it's a sad situation. Both of them are pretty self-centered. I'd agree with one of the other posters that most men who watched an episode or two of this should could quickly ascertain that this wasn't going to end well.

I did see that they're going to treat the current home as the "kids house". I wish that were because they wanted to keep the kids in one location, but I fear that decision was made so the camera crews wouldn't have to move between two locations.

never watched the show but could tell it wasn't going to end well.

and i think you hit the nail on the head with your second paragraph.

[RomaGoth]

Never watched it, but I am familiar with the situation because of the media outlets. My wife watched it a few times, and told me that when the cameras turn off Kate just starts ripping into John (when they think the cameras are turned off). This divorce is not a big surprise.

A year from now nobody will even know who the fuck these people are anyway.

[Warhammer]

I actually enjoyed the first couple of seasons before Kate became MegaBitch. It was basically a show about a family raising 8 kids. Then as Ksyrup points out, they started doing all these special trips and things. Hey, let's go to the Railroad Museum, let's go to DisneyWorld, let's go to whereever.

Then at some point, Kate turned into MegaBitch and the show quickly lost its charm to me. She would just start ripping into Jon and you could tell the guy would just start tuning out, which is never a good sign.

[Fidatelo]

I've only seen the show a handful of times, and my impression has always been that Kate would be extremely annoying to live with. My wife brings up a good point in defending her though: with that many kids all so young, you'd need a tight ship just to survive, and since Jon is clearly not going to run things, someone has to. I can't imagine having 6 kids all the same age, it would be a gong-show.

I have to think that any marriage would be at risk in that situation, just because it is so abnormal. You go in assuming life will be one way, and then it just gets flipped like that, and suddenly you no longer have any semblance of what was once your life.

I also struggle to determine if the show is a good thing or a bad thing for the marriage as well as the kids. Obviously the bad stuff is pretty apparent (cameras watching every move, magnifying every argument, etc). But can you imagine how hard it would have been for them to raise those kids without the extra money and attention that the show brought in? It's hard to say what the right answer is there.

All that said, I am a little shocked at how this season is unfolding. I agree that, if it were me, I'd really press to take a hiatus while the family sorted things out in private. I watched parts of last nights episode, and it just felt wrong to have such an intimate view into the downfall of a family. Intriguing, but wrong.

[SteveMax58]

Excellent post Fidatelo. That is close to my thinking as well.

I tried to imagine how my wife and I would handle that situation ourselves...and it's hard for me to be judgmental of Kate's MB attitude due to the amount of constant chores, tasks, etc. required of her. She gets a slight pass in my book and I suspect you dont see all of this mundane stuff she does because...it's mundane and boring to watch.

John seems like a basically decent guy(albeit slightly immature)...but burned out on Kate's methods of management (due to his own lack of management initiative). Bad situation altogether, and I agree that now is the time they should be putting the show on hold until they get back to being a family (whatever shape that may take).

But I dont knock them for doing the show for the past few years as I can't imagine the costs of raising that many kids. The show brought reasonable finances to help feed, clothe (sp?), house, and eventually send the kids to college. All of that aint happening on a single IT consultant salary alone(or not to the extent one would want).

But I do wonder if they've planned their finances accordingly...like the extravagent house, etc...because people aren't going to tune in for 18 years of this (will they?!).

[johnnyshaka]

Fid, have a look at another show on TLC, 25 kids and counting or something like that. Mom and dad on that show are nothing like Jon and Kate. True, they don't have sets of multiples, but they have like 20 kids!!! TWENTY...and neither of the parents are bitchy and neither of them tune each other out. Tight ship or not, there is a right way to run one and a wrong way to run one...Jon and Kate are both trying to steer at the same time but are going in different directions.

And as for needing the revenue from the show to raise the kids...well, easy solution, stop taking fertility drugs if you can't support a big family!!!!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

I tried to imagine how my wife and I would handle that situation ourselves...and it's hard for me to be judgmental of Kate's MB attitude due to the amount of constant chores, tasks, etc. required of her. She gets a slight pass in my book and I suspect you dont see all of this mundane stuff she does because...it's mundane and boring to watch.

John seems like a basically decent guy(albeit slightly immature)...but burned out on Kate's methods of management (due to his own lack of management initiative). Bad situation altogether, and I agree that now is the time they should be putting the show on hold until they get back to being a family (whatever shape that may take).

This is a great example of why divorce is so prevelant nowdays. There's nothing wrong with feeling frustrated due to workload or being immature. There IS something wrong with having those kinds of issue and failing to get counseling help to deal with those issues. It was evidently more important for these two to fight and fail to listen than to realize they were having severe communication issues and to get help for the sake of their family unit.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Fid, have a look at another show on TLC, 25 kids and counting or something like that. Mom and dad on that show are nothing like Jon and Kate. True, they don't have sets of multiples, but they have like 20 kids!!! TWENTY...and neither of the parents are bitchy and neither of them tune each other out. Tight ship or not, there is a right way to run one and a wrong way to run one...Jon and Kate are both trying to steer at the same time but are going in different directions.

And as for needing the revenue from the show to raise the kids...well, easy solution, stop taking fertility drugs if you can't support a big family!!!!

I think it's the multiples that really amp up the craziness. Try to imagine 6 crying babies, with a couple 2 or 3 year olds running around demanding your attention as well. That is insane! 20 kids is a lot, but from what I've seen of families like that, the older kids go a long way towards helping raise the younger ones. A 12 and 10 year old can help watch the 8, 6, and 4 year olds while the mom and dad tend to the 2 and 0 year old kids.

Now, I won't get into the whole fertility drug thing and whatnot, but if you just take the idea of 8 kids under the age of 3 at face value, that is a challenge that I just can't imagine facing.

[LoneStarGirl]

I used to love the show and watched it religiously, but I started to hate Kate and it made me not want to watch the show. But last season Kate made Jon quit his IT job so that she could tour the country promoting her book and talking at churches.

She went to my aunt's church in Houston, TX to talk about having God in your life and making time for God, even with 8 kids, and my aunt saids she spoke brilliantly and was very nice and sociable. But at the end she pushed her book hard and seemed very upset when only a handful of people bought it.

As a wife I would never make my husband quit his job to be a stay at home dad so that I could be more successful. That is just selfish and bitchy. But as the man of the house he should have stood up to her and put his foot down, but after seein the way he is around Kate, I dont believe he knows how to stand up to her.

[Kodos]

I've seen maybe an hour of footage (wife watches it), and it always made me feel bad for him. Of course, now he has made himself out to be a bad guy too. I wish they would just go away.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I think it's the multiples that really amp up the craziness. Try to imagine 6 crying babies, with a couple 2 or 3 year olds running around demanding your attention as well. That is insane! 20 kids is a lot, but from what I've seen of families like that, the older kids go a long way towards helping raise the younger ones. A 12 and 10 year old can help watch the 8, 6, and 4 year olds while the mom and dad tend to the 2 and 0 year old kids.

Now, I won't get into the whole fertility drug thing and whatnot, but if you just take the idea of 8 kids under the age of 3 at face value, that is a challenge that I just can't imagine facing.

Granted, the multiples thing is insane, I agree 100%, but that is why the two of them need to be a team to have any chance. Right out of the shoot, their parenting styles conflicted and yet they never got together to figure out how to make it work. Kate wants things her way all the time and Jon is much more laid back...I don't think either style is necessarily right, but they need to agree on one style and stick with it. They needed to meet somewhere in the middle and either she was too stubborn or he was too lazy and now the whole thing has blown up in front of millions of people.

I'd be curious to know what Jon and Kate have been telling the kids over the years when one of them is freaking out and ask why they have to have a camera in their face 24/7?

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Granted, the multiples thing is insane, I agree 100%, but that is why the two of them need to be a team to have any chance. Right out of the shoot, their parenting styles conflicted and yet they never got together to figure out how to make it work. Kate wants things her way all the time and Jon is much more laid back...I don't think either style is necessarily right, but they need to agree on one style and stick with it. They needed to meet somewhere in the middle and either she was too stubborn or he was too lazy and now the whole thing has blown up in front of millions of people.

I'd be curious to know what Jon and Kate have been telling the kids over the years when one of them is freaking out and ask why they have to have a camera in their face 24/7?

Sure, its easy to say "you need to agree and figure out a style, meet in the middle" etc. But a lot of couples can't do that even with a normal family, never mind twins, sixtuplets, and a camera crew.

My point is that, obviously, mistakes have been made. But it's pretty hard to judge either of them given the uniqueness and insanity of their situation. Is it sad that it has come to this? Sure. Did it have to? Who knows. But are one or both of them evil people? I doubt it.

[DanGarion]

Who?

Just kidding. Show should have never been on the air. There is no reason to glorify these type of attention whores.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Who?

Just kidding. Show should have never been on the air. There is no reason to glorify these type of attention whores.

+1

[PackerFanatic]

Sounds like the network is giving them a little break - really sad that they couldn't take the break themselves and try and work things out.

'Jon & Kate Plus 8' goes on production hiatus | Show Tracker | Los Angeles Times

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Sure, its easy to say "you need to agree and figure out a style, meet in the middle" etc. But a lot of couples can't do that even with a normal family, never mind twins, sixtuplets, and a camera crew.

My point is that, obviously, mistakes have been made. But it's pretty hard to judge either of them given the uniqueness and insanity of their situation. Is it sad that it has come to this? Sure. Did it have to? Who knows. But are one or both of them evil people? I doubt it.

That's right, it's easy to say all that stuff and really hard to do it...that's why a lot of parents today shouldn't be parents. Let alone parents of 8 kids and on prime time TV. So, because they are ballsy enough to try and do the "insane" and raise all these kids on TV they should get a free pass for being douchebag parents? I don't think so, that's BS.

The bottom line is these kids have been exploited to the nth degree by both of their parents and now the kids are in the shit because their parents couldn't hack it. Sure, the kids might have a nice little trust fund waiting for them but who gives a crap about that when life is going to be a living hell for the next several years (at the very minimum) as they get to watch their parents' lives get torn apart on TV/magazine covers/internet not to mention as the kids get older don't think that the scum at TMZ (and outfits like it) won't be there to capture every mis-step by any of them.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

I tried to imagine how my wife and I would handle that situation ourselves...and it's hard for me to be judgmental of Kate's MB attitude due to the amount of constant chores, tasks, etc. required of her. She gets a slight pass in my book and I suspect you dont see all of this mundane stuff she does because...it's mundane and boring to watch.

I'm going to go out on a limb but I'd be willing to bet that Kate does fewer "chores" than one would think. I know she was very adament in pointing out that Jon has "help" while she's out touring the country promoting her book. I can't imagine that help goes away when she comes home. In fact I wouldn't be surprised at all if TLC staffers do most of the work - as it was when they had the birthday party all she did was boss around her friends (and TLC production crew guys since Jon wasn't there to be bossed around) to set everything up.

I think at the beginning they really did have to do all the mundane things themselves (you know, like have a job) and that's what made the show concept interesting but once the show took off and Jon and Kate became stars I'm pretty sure all that went out the window.

[johneh]

It is amazing to see how the show has changed. My wife has Seasons 1 & 2 on DVD. It was a show about two parents trying to raise 8 kids. Now it is nothing more than ads for other TLC shows and/or ads in return for free trips/furniture/toys.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

As a wife I would never make my husband quit his job to be a stay at home dad so that I could be more successful. That is just selfish and bitchy. But as the man of the house he should have stood up to her and put his foot down, but after seein the way he is around Kate, I dont believe he knows how to stand up to her.

The problem isn't necessarily the man/woman dynamic to this - the problem seems to be communication. Her, probably in how she approached the issue with him...knowing her, she probably told him what she was going to do or made it so that it really wasn't a mutual decision as much as I want to do this and the only acceptable response from you that will make me happy is OK. And him, it's obvious that he didn't tell her how he felt about having to quit his job and become Mr. Mom. Part of that might involve his hurt male ego, but whatever his problems with that set-up, it's clear he never really expressed them to her. The media attention and stuff just pushed it over the edge and probably accelerated this process by a year or two.

[Easy Mac]

Didn't Jon want to quit the show at the end of last season? In their last interview on the couch then, he said something to the effect that this was too much for him and he just wanted to retreat back to being a family. Kate then jumped over him and was over-exuberant to say they're coming back.

In later interviews, Kate said she has been dealing with the current problem for 6 months. Given their interview last season, was Jon already cheating then, or was she talking about him wanting to be done with the TV aspect of it?

[DanGarion]

These people deserve no passes. It's not like they were dealt a card randomly, they choose to have this many kids.

The Gosselins' desire to start a family was met with infertility. Kate underwent medical testing and was diagnosed with polycystic ovary syndrome. The couple turned to fertility treatments and immediately began intrauterine insemination.[4] In February 2000, Kate became pregnant with twins, born six minutes apart.[5]

They began thinking of having another child and, according to Kate, a biracial infant of a teenage girl became available to adopt while Kate was an obstetrics nurse. They decided not to adopt the baby, but instead returned to fertility treatment.[5] In October 2003, Kate became pregnant again. Five weeks later, (after being hospitalized for over-stimulated ovaries) at the initial ultrasound, the doctor announced that there were six sacs with seven yolks (embryos). According to Kate, this was emotional news for them. The doctor suggested selective reduction, but the couple was strongly against it.[5]

These people are attention whores. The only insanity is the fact they they choose this situation.

I feel sad for the kids and that's it. These people screwed their kids, all for themselves. They are just as bad as octomom.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

These people are attention whores. The only insanity is the fact they they choose this situation.

I have never seen this show, in fact, I had no idea who these people were so I had to google it..

But.. there's one more insanity. Obviously, people are watching this crap.

"Reality" shows, I use the term reality lightly, are the bane of television.

[stevew]

Someone needs to post the "It's a vagina, not a clown car" fail poster.

[clemsonfan]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I think at the beginning they really did have to do all the mundane things themselves (you know, like have a job) and that's what made the show concept interesting but once the show took off and Jon and Kate became stars I'm pretty sure all that went out the window.

Bingo. I tuned in every week because I could relate somewhat because I have two crazy little boys. When they stopped having the same day to day struggles as the rest of us and became stars, it lost it's appeal.

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by Coder

"Reality" shows, I use the term reality lightly, are the bane of television.

+1000

[Oilers9911]

From the who gives a shit file....

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

From the who gives a shit file....

eh the thread has evolved into bashing the concept of the show and their fame-seeking nature, so it's actually acceptable to post in now