WW XCIX: Seville High, Book Two: The Janitor Lives!!! Game Over - Blakekin Win!!!!

[Abe Sargent]

I think the Blakekin played a really good game except for three things. nfg and Jackal really drew each other closely in the thread. The attack on ntndeacon i felt was poorly chosen. And today, no question they should have pushed to have had nfg lynched, Brutal PB, and win with the night kill. Other than that, a really good game from them, an a rather inept game from the village

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I think the Blakekin played a really good game except for three things. nfg and Jackal really drew each other closely in the thread. The attack on ntndeacon i felt was poorly chosen. And today, no question they should have pushed to have had nfg lynched, Brutal PB, and win with the night kill. Other than that, a really good game from them, an a rather inept game from the village

I agree with this, overall they did a nice job.

[lerriuqs]

I don't get what put you in the thought that PB was a wolf hoops...not at all. Though with Schmidty voting for you, there were literally no chance of pulling this off...

[Abe Sargent]

Classic case of a good game by the wolves against a poor game by the village. The village managed to lynch BOTH seers in the first three days.

[Danny]

I thought the killing of Jets was an odd choice as well. And with Schmidty out for the day, two votes for Hoops would have nullified the coin flip.

[The Jackal]

Yeah that was awfully kind of you, thanks.

[hoopsguy]

I'm very pleased that all villagers showed up for the deadline and made their votes count.

Ugh - I will now light myself on fire.

[The Jackal]

A lot of the kills were both searching for the BG role and making sure we got kills in. After the block on NTN we wanted to make sure we didn't miss again because we were pretty sure the numbers would work out well for us if that was the case.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

I don't get what put you in the thought that PB was a wolf hoops...not at all. Though with Schmidty voting for you, there were literally no chance of pulling this off...

In the end, it did not matter because Schmidty voted for me.

I have no idea how the wolves could allow PB to live every single day - it boggled my mind.

[Abe Sargent]

I think it was obvious that, after the block on ntn, then they killed ntn, that PB would be guarded. That means they should have killed PB that night.

On the other hand, it totally worked.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I have no idea how the wolves could allow PB to live every single day - it boggled my mind.

Look at all the days PB guarded himself.. that could have been a lot of terrible luck for us.

[Danny]

The problem with the Jets kill is it really backed the wolves into a corner with a lack of obvious targets. I would have rather risked the kill on PB and had it blocked and still had that lynch option out there.

[hoopsguy]

After an ending like this, where people can't be bothered to show up for the deadline, I wonder why I put in the amount of effort I did trying to win this game.

Very, very frustrating.

[Autumn]

I think as a wolf I would take their tack -- the bodyguard is no danger to them if they make sure to kill off uncommon targets. Therefore the bodyguard is not only useless, but starts to look suspicious, as Hoops proved today. They wouldn't have needed to bother killing him tonight either, if the game lasted, as Hoops would have just gone harder at him the longer he lived.

[hoopsguy]

Wolves - so who would you have killed tonight to head into tomorrow if we had gotten MartinD?

[hoopsguy]

But there was no reason for them to know that PB was the bodyguard - so I'm not sure how that argument holds up, Autumn.

[Danny]

But if Schmidty is here the wolves still lose most likely, they really needed the Jets lynch option out there as he was a very good lynch candidate.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

But there was no reason for them to know that PB was the bodyguard - so I'm not sure how that argument holds up, Autumn.

But what good is a trusted, cleared villager with no seer to add to the circle, and no powers (he claimed)? The longer he sits there unattacked the more suspicious he looks. And if people believe him, so what? He can't do anything, really.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Autumn

But what good is a trusted, cleared villager with no seer to add to the circle, and no powers (he claimed)? The longer he sits there unattacked the more suspicious he looks. And if people believe him, so what? He can't do anything, really.

It's about leaving as many solid lynch choices out there as possible. Sure, Hoops pushed for PB today, but he didn't really garner support. I would much rather have 4 completely uncleared players than 3 uncleared players and 1 who is cleared, but suspicious because they are still alive. And I think it was an almost certainly that Jets would have gotten lynched.

[hoopsguy]

Autumn, it is going to be very tough to get that villager lynched. And when you are down to five players, or three players, that becomes pretty important.

Maybe not as much at 9 or 11 players, but at some point you figure that the wolves would want to eliminate the one person who is never going to get votes because it dramatically increases the pressure on them.

[hoopsguy]

Lerriuqs, why did you trust me so much without any role information to guide you? I mean, not to look a gift horse in the mouth but I didn't understand the high confidence level in your posts.

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty - welcome to Day 1 vote for awhile.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Danny

It's about leaving as many solid lynch choices out there as possible. Sure, Hoops pushed for PB today, but he didn't really garner support. I would much rather have 4 completely uncleared players than 3 uncleared players and 1 who is cleared, but suspicious because they are still alive. And I think it was an almost certainly that Jets would have gotten lynched.

I didn't follow along closely enough to know Jets status, but I would agree if someone is a good lynch candidate, no sense of touching them.

I think it's possible maybe the "old guard" mode is to take out the cleared, but I've seen less of that in games lately, so maybe some of the newer players are taking a new tactic, and it works since it goes against the expected grain.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Autumn, it is going to be very tough to get that villager lynched. And when you are down to five players, or three players, that becomes pretty important.

Maybe not as much at 9 or 11 players, but at some point you figure that the wolves would want to eliminate the one person who is never going to get votes because it dramatically increases the pressure on them.

Why were you pushing him so hard then? If I was in game I would have probably voted you as it seemed very strange to be gunning for the least likely suspect at that point. To my mind starting to throw conversion possibilities out at the end speaks of wolfiness to me.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

After an ending like this, where people can't be bothered to show up for the deadline, I wonder why I put in the amount of effort I did trying to win this game.

Very, very frustrating.

I'm sorry I couldn't be here, although I probably wouldn't have moved the tie.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Autumn

To my mind starting to throw conversion possibilities out at the end speaks of wolfiness to me.

I was thinking the same thing, it was an odd flip to me by Hoops at the end but the vagueness of the lead Blakekin did leave open the possibility of conversion, but I wouldn't have focused on it.

[The Jackal]

BTW I found it amusing that the four wolves were the bully, the guy that could get everything, the star cornerback, and the valedictorian. Hell of a mix, practically.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Why were you pushing him so hard then? If I was in game I would have probably voted you as it seemed very strange to be gunning for the least likely suspect at that point. To my mind starting to throw conversion possibilities out at the end speaks of wolfiness to me.

I kind of agree with this and I expected the wolves to push this today after Schmidty put his vote and left, I was real surprised they left it to the chance of a tie, but I understand it's difficult since they are not able to be on for deadline.

Despite my nitpicks and strategy discussion, the wolves did a good job, especially for being relatively new wolves.

[Danny]

Abe, was there going to be anyway I was able to find out I was a wolf?

[lerriuqs]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Lerriuqs, why did you trust me so much without any role information to guide you? I mean, not to look a gift horse in the mouth but I didn't understand the high confidence level in your posts.

Honestly, it mostly gut based on the vote where you were close to being lynched. It just seemed too obvious that you were a villager - no movement at all that would suggest a wolf/villager vote - that and the day that I expressed those opinions that we lynched Jackal - the way that vote went down over the weekend didn't feel right at all...It just seemed like the wolves were looking for an easy lynch target that day.

I've found two things from my last two games - 1. I don't have the time to do the analysis that may be required and it doesn't tend to tell me much anyways. 2. I've found that my gut is getting pretty good at this game - for the most part anyways. Looking back at this game, I was most suspicious of Jackal, nfg, Martin D and clap. There was just something in the way they posted that was off. Of course, there's always the doubt there that made me question it and vote after others, but something felt off. Today was even worse - nfg's posts just felt like he was laughing his ass off after he posted (and this was before Abe told me he was a wolf). I need to trust my gut more and stop second-guessing myself.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Danny

Abe, was there going to be anyway I was able to find out I was a wolf?

Yeah, if the three of us died and you were still alive you'd find out and take over.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I didn't follow along closely enough to know Jets status, but I would agree if someone is a good lynch candidate, no sense of touching them.

I think it's possible maybe the "old guard" mode is to take out the cleared, but I've seen less of that in games lately, so maybe some of the newer players are taking a new tactic, and it works since it goes against the expected grain.

Very much truth here

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Yeah, if the three of us died and you were still alive you'd find out and take over.

And, unknown to you, he would have gained the Lone Wolf role and its powers too.

[Abe Sargent]

The Lone Wolf had just one power. Once, you could Duke a vote, and you would be revealed as the Lone Wolf.

[Danny]

What would the powers have been?

[hoopsguy]

Lerriuqs, I can definitely see what you mean about NFG's posts today - he definitely seemed more "wolfish" to me today with his strong stances on people as good/evil.

If I had found anything that was a discrepancy in PB's story today I was going to vote him. But I was also interested to see how people would move their votes around today. So I was willing to attack different angles to see if I could pick up stronger impressions. Unfortunately, no one was moving their votes at all and no one was around at the end.

[lerriuqs]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I didn't follow along closely enough to know Jets status, but I would agree if someone is a good lynch candidate, no sense of touching them.

I think it's possible maybe the "old guard" mode is to take out the cleared, but I've seen less of that in games lately, so maybe some of the newer players are taking a new tactic, and it works since it goes against the expected grain.

I didn't get not taking out PB myself. Though I think it was a mistake to translate him sticking around to possibly being a wolf. On the potentially last day of the game, you can't be second-guessing yourself at this point. And Schmidty's vote was just so totally useless at this point in the game it's not even funny. I knew the game was over at that point though I figured nfg and Martin would switch to hoops prior to the deadline...

[Abe Sargent]

There were times I questioned the game balance. I thought I had made it too hard onthe wolves:

Only 3 wolves can take actions and be involved in conversation.

The villager has one seer, plus a backup

The wolves have a brutal and a slut, called a prostitute generally.

The village has a BG plus the mischief maker which can kill wolves with their own night action. Bounce from target to wolf and dead wolf. With 4 wolves in teh game, this is very possible. MM and BG can act in tandem to guard the same two players every night for the game.

BG target player A. MM go from B to A. Two guards. Either B or A targeted by wolves is blocked.

BG then targets player B. MM goes from A to B.

If they work in tandem, they can really screw up the wolves.

Diseased basically means one BG block because the wolves miss a night.

And you had the Drug Abuser and Rabble Rouser and Martyr too.

So there were a lot of powerful roles for the village. The wolves hadt he slut, the brutal, and the unknown, which could be really great for them or really bad for them.


I was seriously wondering if I had misblanced the game.

[Abe Sargent]

JAG why didn;t you Martyr EagleFan when he RR as the seer?

[The Jackal]

Martin got a real lucky slut on EF early on, and we also were fortunate enough to have EF come out and reveal right before that lynch, AND still get lynched. I think the plan was for me to reveal as the seer the next day if the seer still hadn't come out just so we could stem the damage before it got too large (because at that point, we didn't know that we'd blocked one viewing, were just hoping that the seer had picked Pass).

[JAG]

I agree with what Abe said...we (village) sucked. I learned a good bit though so hopefully I'll put out a better effort in the future. I had nfg pegged as a wolf, but I also thought clap and Jets were, so eh. I was surprised Jets was killed also, I don't know that that was the best move, but then again the result worked for them.

Also, it would've been risky to pile on with Schmidty's vote on hoops because there was no way to know if he would come back or not and Martin wouldn't have been around for the deadline.

[Abe Sargent]

One of hte reasons I did this game was to try out some roles that I want to put in other games. This was just a basic WW game with a few extra roles added, no weird mechanics or anything.

I really like:

Mischief Maker
Drug Abuser
Jr. Sleuth
Unknown
Slut

But I didn;t get a chance to see them all in action.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by JAG

Also, it would've been risky to pile on with Schmidty's vote on hoops because there was no way to know if he would come back or not and Martin wouldn't have been around for the deadline.

But far less risky that what happened. By putting the two votes on Schmidty, if he comes back on, he has to switch his vote to MartinD in self defense. And if he doesn't come back on, it's a coin flip.

If they put the votes on hoops, its a win if Schmidty doesn't come back and Schmidty is less likely to switch his vote to MartinD than he would have been with himself as the other lynch option.

[lerriuqs]

Yeah Schmidty was positive it was hoops - I don't think he's changing his mind if hoops is ahead if he comes back.

[JetsIn06]

Originally Posted by Danny

I thought the killing of Jets was an odd choice as well. And with Schmidty out for the day, two votes for Hoops would have nullified the coin flip.

I could not for the life of me figure out why I was killed. I was easily the weakest player based on experience, and I was not even close to trusted. We had PB and Hoops who were pretty much 100% cleared, so a vote on them would have made more sense.

[Abe Sargent]

I would like to apologize to henry. I have no clue why you were NK Night One, I just do the orders. I felt bad, though.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

JAG why didn;t you Martyr EagleFan when he RR as the seer?

I thought about it which is why I didn't post after he claimed that but:

1. He acted (I thought) suspiciously earlier in the day and I didn't think hoops / Lathum that he was looking at for suspects were likely wolves. Keeping myself alive as a villager vs. saving an unknown.

2. He did two reveals which though he had good reason for it was also a bit suspicious to me.

3. The reveal was so late that I didn't have time to work out if it was worth the risk to kill a known villager for a potential seer or the downside of temporarily saving a wolf who people think is a seer (especially because the wolves knew the Martyr was in the game so they might have tried such a tactic).

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I would like to apologize to henry. I have no clue why you were NK Night One, I just do the orders. I felt bad, though.

It was really a random choice. And he'd just had a great game as a villager, but I don't think that really played into the decision.

[Abe Sargent]

Fair enough

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Danny

But far less risky that what happened. By putting the two votes on Schmidty, if he comes back on, he has to switch his vote to MartinD in self defense. And if he doesn't come back on, it's a coin flip.

If they put the votes on hoops, its a win if Schmidty doesn't come back and Schmidty is less likely to switch his vote to MartinD than he would have been with himself as the other lynch option.

True.