The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Edward64]

This is BS. Harvard and like universities with large endowments should be better than this.

Harvard, America's Richest University, Grabs Nearly $9 Million In Taxpayer CARES Aid | HuffPost

Harvard University, already supported by a massive $41 billion endowment, is getting nearly $9 million in taxpayer aid from the federal Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act, the U.S. Department of Education announced.

Under the terms of the payout from CARES’ Higher Education Emergency Relief Fund, at least half of the $8,655,748 earmarked for Harvard must be reserved for emergency financial grants to students, according to the Harvard Crimson, which was the first to report the aid.

But at least some of that money — which could be used to cover tuition payments and course materials — would also end up in Harvard coffers. The money would also likely be spent on extra technology, food and housing costs that students incurred amid “disruptions in their education” due to COVID-19, according to CARES provisions.

Though Education Secretary Betsy DeVos hailed the program in a statement earlier this month, a spokesperson later told Newsweek that DeVos “shares the concern that sending millions to schools with significant endowments is a poor use of taxpayer money.”

Be like the Shake Shack which is returning their $10M.

[RainMaker]

lol

“The Art of an Oil Deal” https://t.co/UyH5pYTmYw

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 15, 2020

Also did he follow through on filling up the reserves at $38 a barrell a few weeks ago?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

This is BS. Harvard and like universities with large endowments should be better than this.

Harvard, America's Richest University, Grabs Nearly $9 Million In Taxpayer CARES Aid | HuffPost

Be like the Shake Shack which is returning their $10M.

Yeah all those big businesses raising the small business fund is shitty.

Ruth's Chris and other chain restaurants got big PPP loans when small business' couldn't - CNN

[miami_fan]

But it is legal. I mean Congress specifically made it legal after lobbying. I am not upset that they went in for the free money. That is what they are supposed to do. I don't believe that they "learned" about the special provisions after the bill was signed.

BTW I am not prepared to pat Shake Shack on the back just yet.

Shake Shack is returning its PPP Loan. Here’s why:

Shake Shack was fortunate last Friday to be able to access the additional capital we needed to ensure our long term stability through an equity transaction in the public markets. We’re thankful for that and we’ve decided to immediately return the entire $10 million PPP loan we received last week to the SBA so that those restaurants who need it most can get it now.

So they are not giving the money back out of the goodness of their heart IMO. I guess it is good that they gave it back for whatever reason? I mean I guess. {shrug}

[JPhillips]

In light of the attack from the Invisible Enemy, as well as the need to protect the jobs of our GREAT American Citizens, I will be signing an Executive Order to temporarily suspend immigration into the United States!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 21, 2020

Who knows what this really means, but white nationalist is gonna white nationalist.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

In light of the attack from the Invisible Enemy, as well as the need to protect the jobs of our GREAT American Citizens, I will be signing an Executive Order to temporarily suspend immigration into the United States!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 21, 2020

Who knows what this really means, but white nationalist is gonna white nationalist.

Stop. You know if someone from Italy comes here there us a chance they have the virus.

Now is not the time to bitch about open borders.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Stop. You know if someone from Italy comes here there us a chance they have the virus.

Now is not the time to bitch about open borders.

Then test and/or quarantine them.

Do you not realize the damage he is doing long term?

People like to think of immigrants as Mexicans who work in fields. Trump and his policies are going to keep out doctors, engineers, scientists, etc...who don't want to put up with this shit.

[JPhillips]

My guess is this is symbolic more than anything.

But, he gives the game away in the tweet when he talks about jobs. Very few people are coming to the U.S. right now and he's already shut down travel from a number of areas. This is mostly about white nationalism.

And if we're going to have any food problems, it will be because we don't have enough labor to pick and process the crops. Farmers are already putting up the warning sign about this.

[Thomkal]

Gov Hogan with the shade:

I’m grateful to President Trump for sending us a list of federal labs and generously offering Maryland use of them for #COVID19 testing. Accessing these federal labs will be critical for utilizing the 500,000 tests we have acquired from South Korea.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Stop. You know if someone from Italy comes here there us a chance they have the virus.

Now is not the time to bitch about open borders.

We have the most cases in the world. If anything these countries should be banning us.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Stop. You know if someone from Italy comes here there us a chance they have the virus.

Now is not the time to bitch about open borders.

There's not enough info right now and its not surprising for Trump to toss out twitter zingers just to toy with the Libs and play to his base.

When Trump says immigration, is he talking about new or existing? is he talking about those already in the country with a valid visa waiting to get Permanent Residency? is he talking about those already in the country with Permanent Residency waiting to get Citizenship?

Keep in mind many "legal" immigrants are already in the country.

And before stopping all immigration, shouldn't he be stopping all travel into the US first?

So would like to get more real info before deciding.

[sterlingice]

Either way, seems like something you should announce via, say, a press conference and not Tweet while on the can.

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Trump had two re-election arguments going for him.

1.) Blood & Soil style White Nationalism

2.) Managed to not fuck up the post-Great-Recession economic expansion

Now he's got one thing going for him.

It's going to be a LONG way to November.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

It would be wonderful if the media didn't let Trump change the conversation with this.

They will, of course. He will dangle the shiny keys, and they will all clutch their pearls and say "Oh, how racist!" and then adopt his framing of "Pelosi wants to bring over truckloads of Mexicans with COVID-19 in order to give them PPP money. Is that what we really want?"

What if, instead, the media simply said "OK. But let's get back to talking about testing failures and who knew what when back in January through March."

What if a White Nationalist whines in the woods, but nobody pretends to care?

I can dream, can't I?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

There's not enough info right now and its not surprising for Trump to toss out twitter zingers just to toy with the Libs and play to his base.

When Trump says immigration, is he talking about new or existing? is he talking about those already in the country with a valid visa waiting to get Permanent Residency? is he talking about those already in the country with Permanent Residency waiting to get Citizenship?

Keep in mind many "legal" immigrants are already in the country.

And before stopping all immigration, shouldn't he be stopping all travel into the US first?

So would like to get more real info before deciding.

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Either way, seems like something you should announce via, say, a press conference and not Tweet while on the can.

SI

Edward, I appreciate your attempts to unpack what he says in the face of criticism here, but do you honestly think what he says has any actual thought or rationalization behind it other that trying to please his base?

Like SI said, he quite likely fired it off while shitting out the big macs he had for dinner.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And if we're going to have any food problems, it will be because we don't have enough labor to pick and process the crops. Farmers are already putting up the warning sign about this.

Its going to be at the processing plant level if anything. For most crops, we have enough machines to harvest, granted there are still some crops that do require harvesting by hand, and for those, you can distance everyone over the field.

The processing plants are a different story. Vegetable plants should not be hit as hard because workers are not in super close proximity to one another because much of the work is by hand. Meat processing is a different story because of the close proximity the workers are in on the processing floor. Also, much of our excess capacity has been taken up due to plant closures and redirection of meat, etc.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Edward, I appreciate your attempts to unpack what he says in the face of criticism here, but do you honestly think what he says has any actual thought or rationalization behind it other that trying to please his base?

Like SI said, he quite likely fired it off while shitting out the big macs he had for dinner.

It is definitely to appeal to his base *and* independents. It is also to distract.

Ultimately, my guess is mostly to position himself better for the inevitable "blame game" to come in 3Q and 4Q.

Same with saying Governors make the call but yet he selectively undercuts them. It's for the blame game.

[JPhillips]

Texas Lt. Governor with the 2020 GOP slogan:

There are more important things than living

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Ultimately, my guess is mostly to position himself better for the inevitable "blame game" to come in 3Q and 4Q.

Same with saying Governors make the call but yet he selectively undercuts them. It's for the blame game.

It will not be easy because people tend to blame or credit the president, regardless of what is or isn’t his fault.

It was not really George HW Bush’s fault that the economy was in a natural recession after the Reagan boom years. But he got blamed for it. And it was not really Clinton’s fault that the economy started doing really well once the Internet opened up, but he got credit for it.

I hope things are looking great by October and November. But it sure looks like they’re going to suck ass. And if Trump manages to escape blame for that, he will be the first president in modern times to manage to do so.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Texas Lt. Governor with the 2020 GOP slogan:

It's so easy to say when you have access t the best healthcare, medicine, etc...

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Texas Lt. Governor with the 2020 GOP slogan:

Yes yes saw that, I would add:

Just make sure you vote for a Republican with your last dying breath.

[Thomkal]

Stealing this link from a FOFC'er Facebook page,a Security site did a search of the various "Reopen.com" domain names, and shouldn't be too shocking who is behind them:

Who’s Behind the “Reopen” Domain Surge? — Krebs on Security

I find it very amusing that the reopensc domain was started by my county's Republican party.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We have the most cases in the world. If anything these countries should be banning us.

I'm from Canada and our infection rate per capita is half of the US number. When they were talking about opening the border again, the general feeling right now is HELL NO!

There will obviously be essential travel required. But really, there is no reason other than that for people to be moving around within their own country let alone to other countries.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Mota

I'm from Canada and our infection rate per capita is half of the US number. When they were talking about opening the border again, the general feeling right now is HELL NO!

There will obviously be essential travel required. But really, there is no reason other than that for people to be moving around within their own country let alone to other countries.

So is this Canada and white nationalism, racism, discriminatory and/or just prudent strategy?

[Kodos]

It's don't let the bumbling buffoons bring their problems up here.

[Arles]

People do understand nearly half the world has closed borders for non-citizens right now. Austraila (late March), Canada (late March), Greece, nordic countries, Ireland and the UK. Then you have situations like Italy/France (in late March they stopped issuing visas and closed their immigration offices) and Germany (no non-EU can enter and EU like the UK and Swiss can only use Germany to as part of a way home - they can't stay). They are basically shut down given no one will process VISAs or let non-nationals stay in the country.

The US ended up waiting over a month past most of Europe and Canada to stop allowing immigration. I get that Trump's demeanor is awful for this crisis and Ben hit the nail on the head calling him "the toddler in chief". But, some of these criticisms for policies (when he started calling for travel restrictions, shutdowns and immigration) are just not fair given what other countries have done and when we knew the information we did. There's plenty else to criticize that is legitimate.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Kodos

It's don't let the bumbling buffoons bring their problems up here.

But don’t forget everyone in the world wants to live here and be us.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Kodos

It's don't let the bumbling buffoons bring their problems up here.

But don’t forget everyone in the world wants to live here and be us.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It's so easy to say when you have access t the best healthcare, medicine, etc...

Or when you can pay people to take your risks for you, rather than doing it yourself. But why should this be any different than, say, war?

SI

[JPhillips]

We're not closing borders, though. There are a number of travel restrictions, but there are still plenty of countries that have total or limited trave capabilities to the U.S.

Again, who knows what Trump's tweet even means, but immigration does not equal closed borders. A temporary stop to international travel and deliveries may make sense, but stopping immigration while continuing to allow some foreign travel is just about the white nationalism.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Stealing this link from a FOFC'er Facebook page,a Security site did a search of the various "Reopen.com" domain names, and shouldn't be too shocking who is behind them:

Who’s Behind the “Reopen” Domain Surge? — Krebs on Security

I find it very amusing that the reopensc domain was started by my county's Republican party.

This is kindof "fun":

More importantly, the same code shows up on a number of other anti-gun control sites registered by the Dorr Brothers, real-life brothers who have created nonprofits (in name only) across dozens of states that are so extreme in their stance they make the National Rifle Association look like a liberal group by comparison. This 2019 article at cleveland.com quotes several 2nd Amendment advocates saying the Dorr brothers simply seek “to stir the pot and make as much animosity as they can, and then raise money off that animosity.” The site dorrbrotherscams.com also is instructive here.

and

Update, April 21, 6:40 a.m. ET: Mother Jones has published a compelling interview with Mr. Murphy, who says he registered thousands of dollars worth of “reopen” and “liberate” domains to keep them out of the hands of people trying to organize protests. KrebsOnSecurity has not be able to validate this report, but it’s a fascinating twist to this tale: How an ‘Old Hippie’ Got Accused of Astroturfing the Right-Wing Campaign to Reopen the Economy.

SI

[Arles]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

A temporary stop to international travel and deliveries may make sense, but stopping immigration while continuing to allow some foreign travel is just about the white nationalism.

That's EXACTLY what France, Germany, Italy and much of Europe is doing. They allow certain instances of foreign travel but have completely shut down their immigration office, closed entry to their borders for certain people and are refusing to issue new VISAs.

How is that any different than what Trump proposed?

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So is this Canada and white nationalism, racism, discriminatory and/or just prudent strategy?

I think we are still taking immigrants into Canada, as long as it was approved prior to March 16th. Also the family reunification program is still active, so that is bringing spouses or parents of permanent residents into Canada (this is a limited percentage of immigration approvals). The refugee program and illegal entries into the country are closed, typically they would put the people into holding until their refugee claims have been processed, but right now they are turning them back.

Also anybody entering the country has to go into self-isolation for 14 days, you have to prove that you have an area where you can do this or else they won't let you in.

[JPhillips]

It's absolutely insane how hard the Trump admin is working to undermine their own guidelines.

The Justice Department will consider taking legal action against governors who continue to impose stringent rules for dealing with the coronavirus that infringe on constitutional rights once the crisis subsides in their states, Attorney General William Barr said.

Blunt means to deal with the pandemic, such as stay-at-home orders and directives shutting down businesses, are justified up to a point, Barr said in an interview Tuesday on “The Hugh Hewitt Show.” Eventually, though, states should move to more targeted measures, Barr said. He said he supports the approach laid out by President Donald Trump.

“We have to give businesses more freedom to operate in a way that’s reasonably safe,” Barr said. “To the extent that governors don’t and impinge on either civil rights or on the national commerce -- our common market that we have here -- then we’ll have to address that.”

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Arles

That's EXACTLY what France, Germany, Italy and much of Europe is doing. They allow certain instances of foreign travel but have completely shut down their immigration office, closed entry to their borders for certain people and are refusing to issue new VISAs.

How is that any different than what Trump proposed?

We don't know what Trump has proposed because there is no order yet, but we do know he touted stopping immigration because of American jobs.

[Arles]

This article is incredible. The Post goes from:

1. Knocking the President for allowing US companies to sell the Chinese them more PPE than normal in January and early February (when the US had under 20 cases - or 0 in Jan).
2. Knocks the President for blaming China later in March and April. Yet, it is shown that the Chinese refused to allow exports from US plants in China of PPE equipment that the US government had asked be sent to states. They instead kept them in China.
3. Now that the US needs the PPE, Trump announced in April that he is requiring companies like 3M to sell to the US first. So, of course, the Post uses comments from Canada and other US allies to say how inhumane all this is.

So, basically, Trump should have been inhumane to China in January (when the US had no cases) and blocked 3M from selling PPE (much of it manufactured in China) to the Chinese who desperately needed it. But, when the US is in the middle of their own crisis in April, Trump should have allowed 3M to ship PPE to Canada and Europe because it would be inhumane not to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...2b7_story.html

I am not pro-Trump, but it seems like there is a real push by the media to just blame everything on Trump (regardless of the actual facts). This scares me as it will then lead the inevitable conclusion that if we just have a different president than Trump - everything would have been fine. I think that's extremely dangerous as the preparation and responses by many cities and states were full of flaws and mistakes. We have to be able to look at this after the fact and see why it took weeks for Congress to act, many cities were woefully under prepared on PPE, why it has taken so long to get tests created and analyze all the different state reactions. 80% of these things are independent of who the president is - he doesn't control that. So, if our response to all this is "It's simple, Trump is an idiot" - we will have learned nothing and be in the same spot the next time it happens.

[PilotMan]

He IS soley responsible for everything good that happens. This is the natural corollary.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think that's extremely dangerous as the preparation and responses by many cities and states were full of flaws and mistakes. We have to be able to look at this after the fact and see why it took weeks for Congress to act, many cities were woefully under prepared on PPE, why it has taken so long to get tests created and analyze all the different state reactions. 80% of these things are independent of who the president is - he doesn't control that. So, if our response to all this is "It's simple, Trump is an idiot" - we will have learned nothing and be in the same spot the next time it happens.

This is an excellent point, but I'd go even further to the warnings we've had from scientists going back at least 20 years that something like this - or worse - was likely to happen eventually and that we weren't ready for it. The list of people complicit in unpreparedness is quite literally everybody. And had anybody proposed billions in pandemic readiness spending a few years ago, they'd have been laughed at. It's an understandable blind spot, but a blind spot nonetheless. How much our perspective on that changes in a political sense long-term will be vital, and that's even more important than what we do right now in the middle of this one. Optimally, though unlikely, would be to take that principle beyond even pandemics, and re-examine the degree to which our society runs on the assumption that the future will be fundamentally like the present. Because that's always far from certain.

[albionmoonlight]

JUST IN: The Senate Intelligence Committee affirms the intelligence community's conclusion that Russia acted to aid Trump in 2016 — and explicitly breaks with the House GOP.

"The ICA reflects strong tradecraft," said Burr.https://t.co/2b9mU99n4d

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) April 21, 2020

Not that there was any doubt.

I'm guessing that this is a pretty good time for the GOP Senate to release this. Long before the 2020 election, and its gonna get buried in COVID-19 news.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Arles

This article is incredible. The Post goes from:

1. Knocking the President for allowing US companies to sell the Chinese them more PPE than normal in January and early February (when the US had under 20 cases - or 0 in Jan).
2. Knocks the President for blaming China later in March and April. Yet, it is shown that the Chinese refused to allow exports from US plants in China of PPE equipment that the US government had asked be sent to states. They instead kept them in China.
3. Now that the US needs the PPE, Trump announced in April that he is requiring companies like 3M to sell to the US first. So, of course, the Post uses comments from Canada and other US allies to say how inhumane all this is.

So, basically, Trump should have been inhumane to China in January (when the US had no cases) and blocked 3M from selling PPE (much of it manufactured in China) to the Chinese who desperately needed it. But, when the US is in the middle of their own crisis in April, Trump should have allowed 3M to ship PPE to Canada and Europe because it would be inhumane not to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...2b7_story.html

I'm not sure how you see that in the article. It seems more like projection on your part. In fact they quote White House officials who literally say #2 - and Navarro is portrayed a very good light and if anything it seen as the hero of the piece. And in #3, they are literally reporting what other countries said as well 3M, and then highlighted how the Administration backtracked due to backchannels from those countries.

#1 is definitely a valid issue raised by the WaPo, considering the massive amount of PPEs sent to China was in February, when the administration was already briefed by national security staff and experts on the pandemic (in late January) and 3M is saying it got nothing from the administration to not sell.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Arles

I am not pro-Trump, but it seems like there is a real push by the media to just blame everything on Trump (regardless of the actual facts). This scares me as it will then lead the inevitable conclusion that if we just have a different president than Trump - everything would have been fine. I think that's extremely dangerous as the preparation and responses by many cities and states were full of flaws and mistakes. We have to be able to look at this after the fact and see why it took weeks for Congress to act, many cities were woefully under prepared on PPE, why it has taken so long to get tests created and analyze all the different state reactions. 80% of these things are independent of who the president is - he doesn't control that. So, if our response to all this is "It's simple, Trump is an idiot" - we will have learned nothing and be in the same spot the next time it happens.

The biggest problem, though, has been the federal government. Both Bush and Obama were very interested in pandemic preparations. People were hired, plans were made, offices created, simulations run, and the Trump admin ignored or abandoned all of it.

Congress could have done more, yes, especially restocking the national stockpile after swine flu, states could have stockpiled more, too. But the federal government is always going to be primarily responsible in a national emergency, both because of laws and regulations and because the federal government, unlike the states, can run a deficit and print money.

There are a lot of lessons to learn, but the failure is primarily a failure of the federal response and the person at the top of the federal government is always going to take the blame for a federal failure.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

This is an excellent point, but I'd go even further to the warnings we've had from scientists going back at least 20 years that something like this - or worse - was likely to happen eventually and that we weren't ready for it. The list of people complicit in unpreparedness is quite literally everybody. And had anybody proposed billions in pandemic readiness spending a few years ago, they'd have been laughed at. It's an understandable blind spot, but a blind spot nonetheless. How much our perspective on that changes in a political sense long-term will be vital, and that's even more important than what we do right now in the middle of this one. Optimally, though unlikely, would be to take that principle beyond even pandemics, and re-examine the degree to which our society runs on the assumption that the future will be fundamentally like the present. Because that's always far from certain.

People have tried in the past, but there were never enough votes for it:

Pandemic Preparedness and Response Act - Wikipedia

The Pandemic Preparedness and Response Act is a bill introduced on October 5, 2005 by U.S. Senators Harry Reid, Evan Bayh, Dick Durbin, Ted Kennedy, Barack Obama, and Tom Harkin in response to the growing threat of an outbreak of avian influenza.

I believe funding has gone up, but no more than $1 billion in an annual budget at most (terrorism prevention gets $10 billion for comparison sake)

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Mota

I think we are still taking immigrants into Canada, as long as it was approved prior to March 16th. Also the family reunification program is still active, so that is bringing spouses or parents of permanent residents into Canada (this is a limited percentage of immigration approvals). The refugee program and illegal entries into the country are closed, typically they would put the people into holding until their refugee claims have been processed, but right now they are turning them back.

Also anybody entering the country has to go into self-isolation for 14 days, you have to prove that you have an area where you can do this or else they won't let you in.

TBH, sounds like prudent strategy to me.

In the US all those things would be considered white nationalism or racist by many.

I would just call it nationalism (e.g. thinking about US first) while admittedly its bad for those impacted.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I'm not sure how you see that in the article. It seems more like projection on your part. In fact they quote White House officials who literally say #2 - and Navarro is portrayed a very good light and if anything it seen as the hero of the piece. And in #3, they are literally reporting what other countries said as well 3M, and then highlighted how the Administration backtracked due to backchannels from those countries.

The article spends the first section hammering Trump for doing the humanitarian thing and helping China at a time of crisis before the US needed them. Then, ends by knocking him that he isn't help Canada and the allies of US more while the US is itself in a time of crisis. That's as close to disingenuous you can be - unless you so undervalue a Chinese life over a Canadian life.

#1 is definitely a valid issue raised by the WaPo, considering the massive amount of PPEs sent to China was in February, when the administration was already briefed by national security staff and experts on the pandemic (in late January) and 3M is saying it got nothing from the administration to not sell.

So it's your stance that when the US had no cases in January and early February, Trump should have prevented private US companies (many who manufacture in China) from selling PPE to China and other Asian companies who desperately needed it because of a *chance* we may need it a couple months later? Come on, the human rights crew on the left who have tarred and feathered Trump for that. I'm no fan of China's policies, but depriving their people of PPE in the middle of this would have been a pretty rough thing to do (esp when we had no cases here).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

This article is incredible. The Post goes from:

1. Knocking the President for allowing US companies to sell the Chinese them more PPE than normal in January and early February (when the US had under 20 cases - or 0 in Jan).
2. Knocks the President for blaming China later in March and April. Yet, it is shown that the Chinese refused to allow exports from US plants in China of PPE equipment that the US government had asked be sent to states. They instead kept them in China.
3. Now that the US needs the PPE, Trump announced in April that he is requiring companies like 3M to sell to the US first. So, of course, the Post uses comments from Canada and other US allies to say how inhumane all this is.

So, basically, Trump should have been inhumane to China in January (when the US had no cases) and blocked 3M from selling PPE (much of it manufactured in China) to the Chinese who desperately needed it. But, when the US is in the middle of their own crisis in April, Trump should have allowed 3M to ship PPE to Canada and Europe because it would be inhumane not to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...2b7_story.html

I am not pro-Trump, but it seems like there is a real push by the media to just blame everything on Trump (regardless of the actual facts). This scares me as it will then lead the inevitable conclusion that if we just have a different president than Trump - everything would have been fine. I think that's extremely dangerous as the preparation and responses by many cities and states were full of flaws and mistakes. We have to be able to look at this after the fact and see why it took weeks for Congress to act, many cities were woefully under prepared on PPE, why it has taken so long to get tests created and analyze all the different state reactions. 80% of these things are independent of who the president is - he doesn't control that. So, if our response to all this is "It's simple, Trump is an idiot" - we will have learned nothing and be in the same spot the next time it happens.

Well it's a private health care system. There isn't profit in stocking up on supplies or preparing for events like this. So if you're asking why this country was so woefully prepared, you can start there.

Testing requires national coordination. The FDA has to approve tests which they have been slow to do. Another federal department, the CDC, completely botched the initial tests which set the country back.

Then you have the fact that the leader of the country was telling people this was a hoax as it began to spread around communities.

Everything isn't his fault. Cuomo for instance has shut down hospitals and was late to put a shelter-in-pace order in. But Trump is the leader of this country and this country has had one of the worst responses in the industrialized world. He deserves significant blame for that.

[Arles]

As an aside, here's what Washington Post wrote on Feb 1 (weeks after they now say Trump should have hoarded PPE):

The rapidly spreading virus has closed schools in Knoxville, Tenn., cut blood donations to dangerous levels in Cleveland and prompted limits on hospital visitors in Wilson, N.C. More ominously, it has infected as many as 26 million people in the United States in just four months, killing up to 25,000 so far.
In other words, a difficult but not extraordinary flu season in the United States, the kind most people shrug off each winter or handle with rest, fluids and pain relievers if they contract the illness.
But this year, a new coronavirus from China has focused attention on diseases that can sweep through an entire population, rattling the public despite the current magnitude of the threat. Clearly, the flu poses the bigger and more pressing peril; a handful of cases of the new respiratory illness have been reported in the United States, none of them fatal or apparently even life-threatening.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...e99_story.html

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

So it's your stance that when the US had no cases in January and early February, Trump should have prevented private US companies (many who manufacture in China) from selling PPE to China and other Asian companies who desperately needed it because of a *chance* we may need it a couple months later? Come on, the human rights crew on the left who have tarred and feathered Trump for that. I'm no fan of China's policies, but depriving their people of PPE in the middle of this would have been a pretty rough thing to do (esp when we had no cases here).

What's this "chance" nonsense? We knew it was coming here. Every scientist in this field warned people it would be here and be bad. That we needed to be preparing.

Not sure if withholding sales to China would be beneficial or not (there is politics to everything). But we definitely should have been filling up our stockpile in January and February when we knew it was just a matter of time before we needed it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

As an aside, here's what Washington Post wrote on Feb 1 (weeks after they now say Trump should have hoarded PPE):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...e99_story.html

Lenny Bernstein isn't the President of the United States. His credentials are a BA in American culture from Michigan.

Why does his opinion matter?

[RainMaker]

Also this is relevant to everything when talking about preparation.

Precautionary principle - Wikipedia

[JPhillips]

The Trump campaign sent this out:

When our economy has been artificially interrupted by the virus, allowing more competition for jobs would worsen unemployment & depress wages, especially in Black & Latino communities.

Also a public safety move.

"Also a public safety move."