WW LXVII - Heroes (GAME OVER! HEROES WIN!)

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

. On that note I wonder if the wolves could convert me by attacking me - I was thinking of the whole Nikki/Jessica thing. At one stage I'd convinced myself that they would. Because it's more complicated that way.

Since the game started out as 17:6 ratio I only built in one conversion mechanism, involving claphamsa. If Claire (hoops) died, clap would then have the option of

A) Staying a Hero
B) Joining the company
C) Becoming a Double agent (he'd join the company for 2 whole days and then switch back)

[Thomkal]

Oh the one thing I didn't like about my defend power was that it told me nothing. I had to ask Jeheinz if he had received my PM the only night I used it, and he told me then I wouldn't get any information from it, not even any word if I had been attacked or not. So I felt it was somewhat useless when I could spy every night instead.

[Narcizo]

I still thought Path was bad right up until Render scanned him. And I wasn't 100% sure after that either. I always think Path is bad though.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

C) Becoming a Double agent (he'd join the company for 2 whole days and then switch back)

Interesting. How would that work? He'd presumably know who all the wolves are and could reveal them in that case.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I still thought Path was bad right up until Render scanned him. And I wasn't 100% sure after that either. I always think Path is bad though.

I had it all figured out in my head one day driving home from somewhere. I put together all of the pieces that if Lathum was bad what would it mean... I realized Lathum being bad meant

Night 1 is when Lathum likely did the night kill
The distrust I had for Claphasma was likely unwarranted just for being HRG and at least 70-30 he was good as he said he was (but something I had planned at some point possibly scanning his power in case I was still alive)
That night 3 wasn't a sylar kill and thus the company must have attacked someone
Path claiming being attacked by someone flying seemed to fit in pretty well which lead to me thinking DT was bad.

I think i could see how the company would get frustrated in this game though.. Even if we hadn't gotten lucky and things had played out differently there were so many people who had the possibility of protecting themselves at night (Hoops, Path, Schmidty, THomkal, Neon, Olie, am I missing anyone?) or people who could have possibly been protected by someone else (Barkeep, ?) that it was probably pretty frustrating trying to figure out how to widdle that down a bit.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Interesting. How would that work? He'd presumably know who all the wolves are and could reveal them in that case.

Yeah, he would've only been allowed to overtly out one company member per two days after the converting back.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

The justice is swift on Day Nine, people apparently have an early tee time.

Actually, a flight to catch

[Greyroofoo]

W00t! I finally live through a game!

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I had it all figured out in my head one day driving home from somewhere. I put together all of the pieces that if Lathum was bad what would it mean... I realized Lathum being bad meant

I had it all worked out in my head as well. Path fakes being the victim of a night attack on day three to hide the fact that the company has converted someone and, knowing that there are going to be some flyers, says that it was a flying attack to set up DT/Schmidty. When they both come up good he can always say that it must have been Sylar.

My way is better than reality.

[Barkeep49]

I agree that there were reasons not to duke me. I'd revealed as BG and Alan had verified that I'd attempted to use my BG power. That said there was still a great deal of suspicion about me so I don't think it was the worst duking. But I really hate being duked and think I might not include one in my next game just cause how frustrating it can be to be taken out like that.

[Thomkal]

Oh and something I felt might have been a bit unbalanced in favor of the heroes was the search and find then PM. It kind of allowed us to clear some people based on the fact that we had to have certain people in the game. I think it might have been more fair if either that ability was not in the game, or powers were not revealed upon death. And I was disappointed when I didn't get PM abilities with my family.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I agree that there were reasons not to duke me. I'd revealed as BG and Alan had verified that I'd attempted to use my BG power. That said there was still a great deal of suspicion about me so I don't think it was the worst duking. But I really hate being duked and think I might not include one in my next game just cause how frustrating it can be to be taken out like that.

Yeah, but it's so money when it's used correctly (change a villager lynch to a wolf).

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Oh and something I felt might have been a bit unbalanced in favor of the heroes was the search and find then PM. It kind of allowed us to clear some people based on the fact that we had to have certain people in the game. I think it might have been more fair if either that ability was not in the game, or powers were not revealed upon death. And I was disappointed when I didn't get PM abilities with my family.

Yeah, that's probably the thing I would change more than anything. My grand plan was that amidst all of these search and finds were going to be cases of bad guys talking to good guys. But Olie dying quickly negated one. NFG poorly executing it was another, though I think Neon's ability to do so with Jackal bought him a bit of favor/time.

I'd probably lessen that a bit and maybe only let Parkman do it. But it just seemed to fit well with the show's point of view because for a lot of the characters you're almost always seeing them in unison (Hiro/Ando, Claire/Noah)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I agree that there were reasons not to duke me. I'd revealed as BG and Alan had verified that I'd attempted to use my BG power. That said there was still a great deal of suspicion about me so I don't think it was the worst duking. But I really hate being duked and think I might not include one in my next game just cause how frustrating it can be to be taken out like that.

I actually never saw you protect anyone. All I did was scan your power/ability and it had the bodyguard ability pretty much like you had described it.. and the way the role was written, it obviously was for Mr.Linderman.

I wasn't necessarily convinced at the onset that you wern't company, but I knew 100% you wern't Sylar and after a little further thinking figured you likely wern't company either (I couldn't think of many reasons for them to have a role specifically for bodyguard). But I had to play it off like I witnessed you protecting someone to not out my other ability too early. I didn't think anyone would care enough about killing me for my spying power.. but if they knew I could also verify power/abilities I would think that would have made me a target.

I actually chose to spy on people the first few nights, figuring I was more interested in what people were doing while I didn't have any idea of who they were. I think that was a misplay on my part, and from the onset i should have been scanning people's powers instead. In the end I didn't hardly get sqwat from my power.. the only thing I did get was the ability to press Schmidty about what he was doing on the night he spied on Lathum. Forcing him to reveal gave us the information we needed to piece together that Lathum was bad.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I still thought Path was bad right up until Render scanned him. And I wasn't 100% sure after that either. I always think Path is bad though.

I was unsure about Path for a while there but as we got closer to the end of the game, it just seemed more likely that if Path was telling the truth about the attack on him, Nathan (DT) had to be his attempted killer. Powers from the game pretty closely shadowed the powers from the show, and Nathan was the only one left who could fly.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Since the game started out as 17:6 ratio I only built in one conversion mechanism, involving claphamsa. If Claire (hoops) died, clap would then have the option of

A) Staying a Hero
B) Joining the company
C) Becoming a Double agent (he'd join the company for 2 whole days and then switch back)

that would have been pretty wild if that had happened.

[Thomkal]

Oh I had a question for the Company-why wait so long to take Alan out?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I had it all figured out in my head one day driving home from somewhere. I put together all of the pieces that if Lathum was bad what would it mean... I realized Lathum being bad meant

Night 1 is when Lathum likely did the night kill
The distrust I had for Claphasma was likely unwarranted just for being HRG and at least 70-30 he was good as he said he was (but something I had planned at some point possibly scanning his power in case I was still alive)
That night 3 wasn't a sylar kill and thus the company must have attacked someone
Path claiming being attacked by someone flying seemed to fit in pretty well which lead to me thinking DT was bad.

I think i could see how the company would get frustrated in this game though.. Even if we hadn't gotten lucky and things had played out differently there were so many people who had the possibility of protecting themselves at night (Hoops, Path, Schmidty, THomkal, Neon, Olie, am I missing anyone?) or people who could have possibly been protected by someone else (Barkeep, ?) that it was probably pretty frustrating trying to figure out how to widdle that down a bit.

Yeah I agree there did seem to be a lot of protection out there. But it came at a cost of not being able to use powers like spying that could have broken the game open. Did seem like a lot of spy/seer powers too I guess.

[Neon_Chaos]

My 3 names list. I had to submit these before 4 PM EST. YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO DO SO WHEN 4 PM EST IS 5 AM PHILIPPINE TIME!?!?!?

Night 1, no powers gained: Render, Lathum, GRF.

Night 2, no powers gained: The jackal, hoopsguy, Barkeep49 - I could have let the Jackal die via lynch and taken his abilities, but it came down to a hunch I had about AE, the same as Alan did. This cleared me of being Company when AE turned out to be evil.

Night 3, no powers gained: Thomkal, RendeR, Alan T

Night 4: Schmidty, Barkeep, nfg - This was the night I got my night kill. I got nfg's PM abilities. I also decided to Kill off Narcizo, who revealed as Niki, thinking she would have kill powers. She turned out to be the bodyguard and I got those extremely useless powers too. I was basically boiling down between a choice of revealing either as Lyle, Hana, or Sprague. When GRF indicated his ability to kill, and someone hinted about him being Sprague, I settled on Lyle, thinking that I could probably pass myself as a seer and use nfg's PM abilities. PM'ing with Narcizo also pretty much gave me a slight cover.

Night 5: Schmidty, Thomkal, Greyroofoo

Night 6: mauboy, DaddyTorgo, Thomkal - I PM'd jeheinz and talked about conceding the game, considering I basically had DT pegged down as the last Company member by process of elimination. He talked me out of it. I inherited DT's powers, useless at this point. I decided to kill off Thomkal, and inherited his seer powers. I basically now had a solid excuse to being the seer.

Night 7: DaddyTorgo, mauboy, Jackal - Mauboy didn't die. I would've gotted his ability and BK would still be alive. Oh well.

Night 8: hoopsguy, Schmidty, GRF - I got mauboy's Duke powers via the one-time mid-day kill due to the Company members being dead. The only scenario where I would win is if Schmidty duked the kill over to Path12. That would allow me to kill RendeR / Mr.W to bring the number of players down to 7. The next Day, I would use the Duke power to kill of hoops, and take Jackal's vote ability, bringing it to a 5-on-1 Combined with that and DT's -1 vote ability, I would have made it a 2:2 tie, and at least force the tiebreaker.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Yeah I agree there did seem to be a lot of protection out there. But it came at a cost of not being able to use powers like spying that could have broken the game open. Did seem like a lot of spy/seer powers too I guess.

Yeah the funny part about that is, while I'd probably agree, the protecting (and even the spying to an extent) wholly didn't do much.

The one block was the attempt on path.
Spying netted some results though

Intercepting PM's I thought was kinda fun

[Neon_Chaos]

I think I played this game well. It just came down to a numbers game.

Good game, jeheinz.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

My 3 names list. I had to submit these before 4 PM EST. YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO DO SO WHEN 4 PM EST IS 5 AM PHILIPPINE TIME!?!?!?

Night 1, no powers gained: Render, Lathum, GRF.

Night 2, no powers gained: The jackal, hoopsguy, Barkeep49 - I could have let the Jackal die via lynch and taken his abilities, but it came down to a hunch I had about AE, the same as Alan did. This cleared me of being Company when AE turned out to be evil.

Night 3, no powers gained: Thomkal, RendeR, Alan T

Night 4: Schmidty, Barkeep, nfg - This was the night I got my night kill. I got nfg's PM abilities. I also decided to Kill off Narcizo, who revealed as Niki, thinking she would have kill powers. She turned out to be the bodyguard and I got those extremely useless powers too. I was basically boiling down between a choice of revealing either as Lyle, Hana, or Sprague. When GRF indicated his ability to kill, and someone hinted about him being Sprague, I settled on Lyle, thinking that I could probably pass myself as a seer and use nfg's PM abilities. PM'ing with Narcizo also pretty much gave me a slight cover.

Night 5: Schmidty, Thomkal, Greyroofoo

Night 6: mauboy, DaddyTorgo, Thomkal - I PM'd jeheinz and talked about conceding the game, considering I basically had DT pegged down as the last Company member by process of elimination. He talked me out of it. I inherited DT's powers, useless at this point. I decided to kill off Thomkal, and inherited his seer powers. I basically now had a solid excuse to being the seer.

Night 7: DaddyTorgo, mauboy, Jackal - Mauboy didn't die. I would've gotted his ability and BK would still be alive. Oh well.

Night 8: hoopsguy, Schmidty, GRF - I got mauboy's Duke powers via the one-time mid-day kill due to the Company members being dead. The only scenario where I would win is if Schmidty duked the kill over to Path12. That would allow me to kill RendeR / Mr.W to bring the number of players down to 7. The next Day, I would use the Duke power to kill of hoops, and take Jackal's vote ability, bringing it to a 5-on-1 Combined with that and DT's -1 vote ability, I would have made it a 2:2 tie, and at least force the tiebreaker.

That -1 from DT almost saved you the day you had to duke. It was 4-2. If one of those had bumped to 3 (or you to a 3) you would've had a shot at not having to use the duke that day.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I think I played this game well. It just came down to a numbers game.

Good game, jeheinz.

Thanks, and yeah, I think you definitely did. You made the right call on the Jackal/AE thing. Getting yourself out of Company possibility was a worthy sacrifice for you there, no doubt.

I definitely think the order of finish lines up with how well I thought people played.

[mauchow]

Yeah, my bad on killing Barkeep. I just chose someone from the "Possible Sylar List" and tried figuring out who might be it. I chose the quietest player from the list and hoped it was right. Oh, well. I wish I took out DaddyT but it worked out just fine.

[mauchow]

And thank you, John.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I also decided to Kill off Narcizo, who revealed as Niki, thinking she would have kill powers.

I debated with myself whether I should reveal my power or not. In the end I thought it was better for the village not to do so as you killing me meant no useful power for you, and left the Company in the dark as well.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I think I played this game well. It just came down to a numbers game.

Good game, jeheinz.

Indeed you did Neon, the hunch you had with Ardent paid big dividends for a while there.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Yeah, my bad on killing Barkeep. I just chose someone from the "Possible Sylar List" and tried figuring out who might be it. I chose the quietest player from the list and hoped it was right. Oh, well. I wish I took out DaddyT but it worked out just fine.

Yeah hope I didn't come across too strongly there in wondering why you attacked Barkeep. I thought there was some reason to go with Barkeep at that point, but some better candidates than him. It all worked out for us heroes in the end, so who cares.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

That -1 from DT almost saved you the day you had to duke. It was 4-2. If one of those had bumped to 3 (or you to a 3) you would've had a shot at not having to use the duke that day.

Yeah, but it also came down to me not being here at deadline. I had some real life stuff come up. Heh.

[Neon_Chaos]

BTW

I cannot believe the Wolves let Alan live that long. Seriously.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I still thought Path was bad right up until Render scanned him. And I wasn't 100% sure after that either. I always think Path is bad though.

I've noticed.

[hoopsguy]

I was really surprised that the group of Path, me, RendeR, and Schmidty were able to keep advancing for as long as we did. I felt like if we kept that core together we were going to be just about impossible for Sylar to disrupt at the end.

The Peter Petrelli role seemed a little too powerful. I thought he should have had some kind of weakness included as he started to absorp powers as a way to throttle him back.

The other challenge with this is that we were able to project which characters were likely to be in the show. That isn't something that happens with a normal WW game. If you were to run it again I would stick with the list of 31 roles, but randomize which ones are in it. If there is no Hiro, no Claire, then so what ... you take away an asset from the heroes that we were able to use down the stretch.

Neon - I love the bad guy revealing as "not powerful" during their fake reveals. In that respect the twerp brother was inspired, and I thought you did a pretty good job of making up why he had powers. I agree with others who have said you put out about the best game you could under the conditions.

I would be very interested in hearing what the complaints were from the good guy team about the game being unbalanced. I agree that it could have gone down very differently, but based on conversations around the powers in the game it sounds like we had at the very least a better than average chance of winning with this structure.

[path12]

I had no idea what my percentage chance was of living through a second attack, so when I dared Grey to go after me I was half hoping he was bluffing, but thought that if it worked it would pretty much take me off the suspicion list........which was a bit of a pipe dream as it turned out.

Good game, heinz. And just a stellar game by Alan. When you're on, you're on.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by path12

I had no idea what my percentage chance was of living through a second attack, so when I dared Grey to go after me I was half hoping he was bluffing, but thought that if it worked it would pretty much take me off the suspicion list........which was a bit of a pipe dream as it turned out.

Good game, heinz. And just a stellar game by Alan. When you're on, you're on.

Thanks.

It was 40%, with a 20% shot at then getting clued in to your attacker

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I would be very interested in hearing what the complaints were from the good guy team about the game being unbalanced. I agree that it could have gone down very differently, but based on conversations around the powers in the game it sounds like we had at the very least a better than average chance of winning with this structure.

I forget who it was but it was early on in the game, naturally. Before things really rolled for the village

[SnDvls]

As the one of the first to reveal their role, if not the first, I take full credit for this win

[SnDvls]

I don't think this game was unbalanced at all...heck I didn't even have any powers...just a spy & try to defend action.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

As the one of the first to reveal their role, if not the first, I take full credit for this win

I thought you played a very solid game and was sad to see you killed when you were.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I thought you played a very solid game and was sad to see you killed when you were.

Thanks, I told heniz when I was killed that they probally were upset I was stirring up stuff for them.

the night before I was killed I spied on Alan a 2nd time to make sure he wasn't out "scouting" to kill you from my 1st spy of him. That when he followed Schmidty. I knew he was a hero at that point. The night I was killed I was going to spy on Mr. W as I wasn't sure he was good or not from the 1 or 2 PMs he sent...he was giving me the way wrong vibe.

Turns out he was good after all, but man did he throw me off from the PMs he sent.

[st.cronin]

I thought it was a fun game. My comments:

I don't think I've ever played a game as a wolf, and not voted for a wolf on day 1. Its a bad habit of mine.

No idea if the game was balanced or not, but as I read the rules, Neon did NOT know the company was. Given his victory condition, had he known who the company was, that would have tended to make the game more balanced, regardless of the other rules. Historically games where every villager has an ability tend to be very hard for the wolves to win, I think this is another data point in favor.

People have pointed out that ardent was not around at the deadline when he got lynched, but also I was not really around at all the day I was lynched, and most of the arguments put up against me were pathetic. Several people argued (innocently, as far as I can tell) that I had pushed for a no-lynch when ardent was on the block, which just wasn't true. I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WENT DOWN BETWEEN ALAN AND THOMKAL/PASS. That was a legitimate line of inquiry, I thought - and still do.

Also, I pushed to kill Schmidty on night 2, but the team went elsewhere for reasons which I never really understood.

The nfg reveal was more or less my idea, but nfg went off the script - the idea was for him to reveal his ability, and accuse greyroofoo of being Sylar. Every one of his posts after that reveal should have had some variant of the phrase "greyroofoo is sylar". Bringing Chief Rum into it made no sense to me, it looked like a clumsy attempt to gain trust.

[SnDvls]

dola - I actually played this game "balls to the wall"

I didn't have a powerful role so I thought if I was killed early I need to get out as much helpful info as I could, hence the quick role reveal. I kinda knew my time would come quick if I kept putting out info, but I'm glad in some small way it helped.

[SnDvls]

I've never really re-read a game before, but the pages just before & after AE was lynched are pretty interesting knowing what we know now.

just looking at the interactions kinda make you laugh.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Ah if only had followed through with this! I was suspicious of Neon ever since we were up on the block together with Jackal. I kind of thought he was a bit more frantic than me in trying to get off the block, then the next day when he went after me time and again even after I kept pointing out that as a wolf I wouldn't have brought Ardent into the tiebreaker with 5 mins left to the deadline. And yes I really was trying to get me my vote in for Ardent when the slow internet connection got me.

But I was really kicking myself after I died and found out Neon was Sylar because I felt like I had found something about him when he hastily changed his reveal when I told him I'd put him to the test and use my then unrevaled power. He changed how his power worked when I did that. I should have pursued it then, but we had so many uncleared people to get to, I let it slide. Should have brought it up in the end game there before I died, sorry about that heroes. I should have more strongly urged us to vote Daddy Torgo instead of Mauboy that day too because I was almost 100% certain he was bad. But good job Neon in nearly getting away with the win.

Oh and sorry Clap for never believing you.

:P

now remember nex time when im a wolf, and i say im a good guy that i am a good guy

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

People have pointed out that ardent was not around at the deadline when he got lynched, but also I was not really around at all the day I was lynched, and most of the arguments put up against me were pathetic. Several people argued (innocently, as far as I can tell) that I had pushed for a no-lynch when ardent was on the block, which just wasn't true. I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WENT DOWN BETWEEN ALAN AND THOMKAL/PASS. That was a legitimate line of inquiry, I thought - and still do.

I agree with this and said as much at the time, which did me no favors in the trust department.

[Thomkal]

I don't understand all that stuff between Pass and Alan myself, so maybe Pass will chime in here. I think he saw something in the way Alan posted or what he was saying that made him think Alan was a wolf. When I joined up, I wanted nothing to do with their discussion, so I tried to distance myself from it. Kept coming up though for a while.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm not going to sit here and whine about "balance." IMO you play the hand you are dealt. We were dealt a rough hand though to start, with every villager having abilities and so many of them interlocking.

And that only got worse when we lost (arguably) our 2 most-valuable wolves first. If AE+Cronin had been the two that survived and Lathum and I had died early, it would have been a whole different game. What ended up happening was the 2 strongest wolves getting killed early, Lathum and I deciding to throw nfg under the bus to try to buy some trust for Lathum, and then basically sitting around waiting to be seen doing our night-kills (well I waited for that while Lathum intercepted PM's). After AE+Cronin died I pretty much said 'well that's the game in all likelhood."

As far as our night-kill reasoning - I'll still never know why we didn't take out Schmidty earlier, or Path earlier. To be honest, I felt that there was no way everyone would keep following Alan after the AE+Cronin nabs, that at some point someone would say "okay, that's enough of a good thing listening to Alan, let's go elsewhere for ideas."

Plus, after the debacles of the first 2 days really, I can't speak for Lathum, but to be frank, the amount of time I devoted to the game dropped way down, and I was sort of just of the mindset of "whatever...whoever we kill it's only a matter of time till we lose." It's fun to participate when you feel like you have a chance of winning, when you feel like you're 4th and 25 on your own 5 yard line and you're down 63-0 you really just want to kneel down and get to the end of the game.

Note: I was having a rough-week this past 2 weeks or so from a personal-life standpoint as well, so I'm sure that affected my "care factor" as well.

[Schmidty]

I will admit one thing: For having one of the most powerful WW roles ever, I did the least amount with it. I did my best, I really did, but nothing really worked.

[The Jackal]

Great game, everyone. By the way, I lied a little about my role. I said I only had the power to switch a vote if I was tied or leading the vote count at the deadline, but the truth is that I could've switched anyone's vote on any day. I just figured if the wolves/Sylar knew that, they'd target me faster. Worked out pretty well.

Funny that I was locked in a three-way tie with the cunning wolf and sylar on day 1. I'll take full credit for killing AE.

Hell of a first game (here, anyways) Heinz.

[The Jackal]

Day 2, rather.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WENT DOWN BETWEEN ALAN AND THOMKAL/PASS. That was a legitimate line of inquiry, I thought - and still do.

For interest of full disclosure, from my end of it there wasn't anything ever up between me and Pass. I played it up a bit the first day just because I learned long ago if the wolves think you might be an eventual lynch target in the next few days they will leave you alone at night for a bit. I presented to Pass ideas that I felt were valid, and played up any disagreement a bit.

The next day, Pass seemingly to me seemed to be less confronting of my ideas and in several parts asked my opinion on things. To me that meant he must have had some role which he used the first night to follow or spy on me or something and felt better about me for some reason. I didn't really know if he was good or bad, but leaned towards him being good at that point just slightly. The bigger thing I did there though was give a public front that I felt things were ok between us. When Pass left the game though, it kind of threw a wrench into things because it created some speculation.. but thats what set me off a bit.. I felt some people were playing it up a bit much, and it was that interaction that made me feel Ardent and Cronin were tied together somehow.

I made the comment on day 2 that I felt that Cronin, Ardent, DaddyTorgo and NFG were allied, but it was mostly tongue in cheek.. I actually didn't honestly think they were all on the same team.. but I suspected Cronin and Ardent of it. It was just the way NFG did the greyfooroo reveal and how he went about it while Cronin was on the line for the lynch that made me feel like I should come after him next. I actually felt I gave Daddytorgo a good bit of latitude thinking surely not all four of them were wolves, but eventually decided that it just made the most sense if he was also.

I still think we got lucky in a big way.. I was going mostly off of gut feeling with Ardent and Cronin, and I've been wrong on those type of gut feelings far more often than I was right. I guess this is my example of a broken clock is right two times a day.