2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[tarcone]

Bloomberg is the Dems worst nightmare

[Edward64]

China question

1) Bloomberg - eh
2) Biden - good answer
3) Warren - Bloomberg's taxes WTF?

Warren is a gadfly, tiresome ...

[bronconick]

Someone ought to ask Bloomberg about the $12 million he donated to reelect Pat Toomey (R) in a race Toomey won by 1.5% in 2018

[Coffee Warlord]

Bernie's eyes are about to pop out of his skull.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Bernie's eyes are about to pop out of his skull.

Yeah, he's getting clobbered on Cuba.

Someone needs to bring up his Russian commie musical.

[tarcone]

This is and should be an us against them debate.

If the dems nominate Bloomberg, the democratic system is dead.

If the dems nominate Bernie, I feel there is hope for our democracy

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by tarcone

If the dems nominate Bernie, I feel there is hope for our democracy

In the United Socialist States of America.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by tarcone

This is and should be an us against them debate.

If the dems nominate Bloomberg, the democratic system is dead.

If the dems nominate Bernie, I feel there is hope for our democracy

I think this kind of framing is what is really hurting the Democrats right now. They really unity this election and not divisiveness no matter who is the nominee.

IMO the winner so far in this debate is Trump

[Radii]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

A lot of fire at Bernie today (as the front runner he should) and I don't think he's handled it well at far.

Honestly I was a strong Warren supporter at the start of this whole process, and shifted over to Bernie after multiple disastrous debates early on. Warren did so well in the last debate and I believe she's doing well tonight (lol at Edward calling her tiresome), and Bernie is an absolute train wreck tonight. I say that as someone who is only considering Warren and Bernie and who strongly supports most of Bernie's ideas, but I think I'm ready to hop back on the Warren train, for the reasons I favored her initially... "I've got a plan for that" is a meme, but she does have details to support her progressive policies that Sanders does not, and if she isn't flailing about on the debate stage I'll head back over her way.

Of course, this is all a thought experiment as the race will be long over by the time Indiana votes and I would love to see either one win.

[PilotMan]

One thing that I have to give Sanders is that he is a very passionate, and dominating public speaker. He simply talks over, around, and through everyone, and sucks the air out of the room.

[ISiddiqui]

Pete trying to talk over Bernie by trying to answer every question Bernie posed in his time was really poor look by Pete. He's obviously asking a bunch of rhetorical questions.

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[Radii]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Yeah, he's getting clobbered on Cuba.

Someone needs to bring up his Russian commie musical.

He's not wrong on the point he made, and his attempted defense and answer to the debate question felt accurate and appropriate to me. Everyone, including much of the media, is actively ignoring the actual statement he made in favor of "BERNIE LOVED CASTRO'S ENTIRE REGIME".

[Edward64]

I love how they are asking foreign policy questions now.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Pete trying to talk over Bernie by trying to answer every question Bernie posed in his time was really poor look by Pete

Bernie getting sucked in by it and the two of them yelling back and forth incoherently until a moderator finally steps in doesn't really feel good for him either, but I do agree with you.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by Radii

Honestly I was a strong Warren supporter at the start of this whole process, and shifted over to Bernie after multiple disastrous debates early on. Warren did so well in the last debate and I believe she's doing well tonight (lol at Edward calling her tiresome), and Bernie is an absolute train wreck tonight. I say that as someone who is only considering Warren and Bernie and who strongly supports most of Bernie's ideas, but I think I'm ready to hop back on the Warren train, for the reasons I favored her initially... "I've got a plan for that" is a meme, but she does have details to support her progressive policies that Sanders does not, and if she isn't flailing about on the debate stage I'll head back over her way.

Of course, this is all a thought experiment as the race will be long over by the time Indiana votes and I would love to see either one win.

I relate with this completely but I vote on Super Tuesday at least.

[ISiddiqui]

That "Why do I stop" exchange by Biden was pretty good. I chuckled.

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[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Reparations? Really? Pandering are you? As an Irish american I want reparations for all the work my ancestors had to do for free to earn their citizenship.

You do realize this is a terrible comparison, right? You can just look at the Irish land grants that were provided as well as the fact that black families were almost completely shut out of the Homestead Act to see the difference.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

That "Why do I stop" exchange by Biden was pretty good. I chuckled.

I feel like Biden knows that this stage, and this state is his, and is playing into that perfectly.

[BillyMadison]

Horrible debate. Horribly moderated. Shame on CBS. No one came out of this looking like a winner. Yikes. What were those random digs by the moderators at some of the candidates? And the DNC should be ashamed of the awful, very clearly pro-Bloomberg crowd. 2k a ticket?! Who is paying for that other than the ones supporting billionaire candidates.

And can we start talking about how Biden has dementia? My father has Alzheimers, and he sounded exactly like Biden does, loses train of thought, can't finish thoughts, early on.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by BillyMadison

Who is paying for that other than the ones supporting billionaire candidates.

The ones supporting millionaire candidates?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

You do realize this is a terrible comparison, right? You can just look at the Irish land grants that were provided as well as the fact that black families were almost completely shut out of the Homestead Act to see the difference.

Yes I do. But why do I have to pay for something I had nothing to do with? Reparations is a bad thing. Maybe treat blacks equally? Maybe drop some businesses in their neighborhoods that creat jobs? Why just give them some money and be done with it.

Reparations are not what needs to be done.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Radii

I feel like Biden knows that this stage, and this state is his, and is playing into that perfectly.

I am biased but think Biden has done really well tonight and has come off fairly good.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by BillyMadison

Horrible debate. Horribly moderated. Shame on CBS. No one came out of this looking like a winner. Yikes. What were those random digs by the moderators at some of the candidates? And the DNC should be ashamed of the awful, very clearly pro-Bloomberg crowd. 2k a ticket?! Who is paying for that other than the ones supporting billionaire candidates.

And can we start talking about how Biden has dementia? My father has Alzheimers, and he sounded exactly like Biden does, loses train of thought, can't finish thoughts, early on.

This was a weak debate. And I agree about Biden. I feel like he is just not all there.

I would rather see Bernie and his heart problems than Joe and his brain problems.

[ISiddiqui]

Maybe drop some businesses in their neighborhoods that creat jobs?

That... Sounds like reparations to me. Or at least part of a plan for reparations.

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[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I am biased but think Biden has done really well tonight and has come off fairly good.

I agree. I missed the first 20 min but I think Biden did well.

Bloomberg having an extended discussion with Amy at the end. If by some miraculous chance Bloomberg wins, I can see him picking a Pete or Amy as VP.

Another fun debate.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

That... Sounds like reparations to me. Or at least part of a plan for reparations.

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Does it? Or a free market system that exploits a class that has been lacking in the free market system? Why does offering loans to minorities to bolster their economy and provide legal jobs sound like reparations?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I am biased but think Biden has done really well tonight and has come off fairly good.

Oh I agree for sure. And I'm biased against him But this was a good showing for him.

[ISiddiqui]

Why does offering loans to minorities to bolster their economy and provide legal jobs sound like reparations?

Because that's literally a part of many reparation plans (low interest loans or even grants for black businesses).

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[CleBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by Radii

Oh I agree for sure. And I'm biased against him But this was a good showing for him.

Just don’t like Biden’s mannerisms... he always tries to be a “tough guy” and what’s with the constant finger pointing? This debate was another train wreck IMO and hate to say it - winner of this debate, like most of the primary debates, is/was Trump. I’m trying real hard to find a likable Dem but I don’t think it’s going to happen.

[panerd]

Too many candidates. They all try to talk over each other. Needs to be more limited, I guess Super Tuesday will do that.

[Kodos]

Let's hope South Carolina does that.

[panerd]

Being a fan of Ron Paul (and not as much a fan of Rand but at least I like hearing his ideas) I don't like to be against bigger debates or excluding based just on polls. But with that said really no reason at all to hear from Tom Stayer and probably not Amy Klobuchar either though some will probably disagree with that. Eventually it will be down to 2 or 3 and then should be more organized and less hand raising where they sadly look like 3rd graders trying to get the teachers attention.

[ISiddiqui]

Well the next Democratic Debate is on March 15, 2020. Almost 2 weeks after Super Tuesday. I'm betting we'll have a few drop outs by then.

[Edward64]

According to CBS on who dem viewers liked

45% Sanders
43% Biden
40% Warren
38% Buttigieg
31% Klobuchar
25% Bloomberg
24% Steyer

Doesn't add up to 100% so guess multiple picks allowed.

CBS News Instant Poll: Democratic Voters Who Watched Debate Say Sanders Impressed Them Most | Video | RealClearPolitics

Democratic voters who watched Tuesday night's debate said national front-runner Bernie Sanders impressed them the most of any candidate, followed closely by Joe Biden and then Elizabeth Warren. CBS News director of elections and surveys Anthony Salvanto has more.

[Arles]

The longer all of Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Biden, Bloomberg and Steyer stay in the race, the more states Bernie will cleanup on with his 25-30% base vote. This is going to be Trump 2.0 where all the moderates cancel each other out, while a more polarizing candidate with a strong 25-30% keeps bagging delegates.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Arles

The longer all of Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Biden, Bloomberg and Steyer stay in the race, the more states Bernie will cleanup on with his 25-30% base vote. This is going to be Trump 2.0 where all the moderates cancel each other out, while a more polarizing candidate with a strong 25-30% keeps bagging delegates.

Pretty much the exact scenario that I had feared all along, tbh.

[GrantDawg]

Newest polls today show Biden up big on South Carolina. I do think that a landslide Biden win could change momentum going into Super Tuesday. Biden is close to tied with Bernie in Texas, and second in California. If they split the big states in delegates totals, it could save the Biden campaign. Of course, there is still the Bloomberg factor dragging Biden going forward.

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[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Newest polls today show Biden up big on South Carolina. I do think that a landslide Biden win could change momentum going into Super Tuesday. Biden is close to tied with Bernie in Texas, and second in California. If they split the big states in delegates totals, it could save the Biden campaign. Of course, there is still the Bloomberg factor dragging Biden going forward.

If Biden can win by around 10 (or more) it would definitely change the narrative and put him in a really good position going into Super Tuesday. Of course this was always Biden's strategy to catapult SC into wins since the beginning. We just seem to get too far into the horse race bit of it.

Oh and James Clyburn just endorsed Biden. He's winning SC; the question is by how much.

[albionmoonlight]

If Biden wins SC big, then Pete and Amy should drop out (and I suspect that the DNC will (very secretly) point this out to them. Amy is an institutionalist, and Pete still has a future to worry about, so I could see each of them being receptive to that idea).

If Biden then becomes the obvious "not Bernie," then I think that a LOT of Bloomberg's support will go to Biden. I think that Bloomberg has been a bit of a placeholder for undecided Dems.

[albionmoonlight]

dola: and if it is true that Bloomberg's entire run was motivated by "not-Bernie" then he should drop out, too.

[albionmoonlight]

double dola: I say all this as a guy who is very meh on Biden, but who thinks that Bernie would very likely lose to Trump and would be a bad president if he did beat Trump

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If Biden wins SC big, then Pete and Amy should drop out (and I suspect that the DNC will (very secretly) point this out to them. Amy is an institutionalist, and Pete still has a future to worry about, so I could see each of them being receptive to that idea).

If Biden then becomes the obvious "not Bernie," then I think that a LOT of Bloomberg's support will go to Biden. I think that Bloomberg has been a bit of a placeholder for undecided Dems.

PredictIt markets are reflecting this scenario very closely, right now. I bought Biden soon after Nevada wrapped up at 11c, this morning he opened at 17, and as of now he's at 19.

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

double dola: I say all this as a guy who is very meh on Biden, but who thinks that Bernie would very likely lose to Trump and would be a bad president if he did beat Trump

Same here.

[panerd]

Wonder if Biden would be open to Biden/Bloomberg and the money that brings?

[Jas_lov]

But Bernie is going to get some of those votes of people who drop out, too. I saw some polls that had the 2nd choice of Biden supporters as Bernie. The media had this same narrative in 2016 where if you add up all the non-Trump votes they can stop him by rallying around one candidate. But that assumes the voters all rally around the one remaining candidate and that Bernie gets none of their voters.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by panerd

Wonder if Biden would be open to Biden/Bloomberg and the money that brings?

Biden needs to get a woman VP and preferably on the young side not a older billionaire.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

But Bernie is going to get some of those votes of people who drop out, too. I saw some polls that had the 2nd choice of Biden supporters as Bernie. The media had this same narrative in 2016 where if you add up all the non-Trump votes they can stop him by rallying around one candidate. But that assumes the voters all rally around the one remaining candidate and that Bernie gets none of their voters.

I just don't see Bernie as being the "2nd option" for anyone but Warren. I don't know how your first option could be Biden, Pete, Amy or Bloomberg, but your 2nd is Bernie.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Arles

I just don't see Bernie as being the "2nd option" for anyone but Warren. I don't know how your first option could be Biden, Pete, Amy or Bloomberg, but your 2nd is Bernie.

It has taken me a while to come to terms with it, but there are apparently a fair number of people doing exactly this. I assume it's among people who don't pay very close attention, are not particularly motivated by issues, and so forth.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

It has taken me a while to come to terms with it, but there are apparently a fair number of people doing exactly this. I assume it's among people who don't pay very close attention, are not particularly motivated by issues, and so forth.

This board is a good example. Electability* seems to be the overriding concern of many here. It seems consistent that a person could think Biden is the most electable followed by Sanders.

*As defined by the DLC in the late 80s and early 90s.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Arles

I just don't see Bernie as being the "2nd option" for anyone but Warren. I don't know how your first option could be Biden, Pete, Amy or Bloomberg, but your 2nd is Bernie.

I think it's all name recognition. It’s Biden and then the only other name the recognize is Bernie.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

I just don't see Bernie as being the "2nd option" for anyone but Warren. I don't know how your first option could be Biden, Pete, Amy or Bloomberg, but your 2nd is Bernie.

Not sure where this narrative started. Bernie has the highest favorability in the party and popular policies. Why wouldn't he be a second choice to most candidates? The second choice for Bloomberg fans is likely Trump.

YouGov tested 2-way match-ups. Sanders & Warren each beat all others, nearly tie one another.

vs Biden: Sanders 48-44, Warren 49-41
vs Bloomberg: Sanders 53-38, Warren 52-38
vs Buttigieg: Sanders 54-37, Warren 52-34
vs Klobuchar: Sanders 54-33, Warren 50-31

Sanders 44-Warren 42

— Taniel (@Taniel) February 17, 2020