The 2013-2014 NCAA Coaching Carousel

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Cap Ologist

So, who is the frontrunner for the job? Not really anyone in college available that would be seen as much of an upgrade. Maybe Vandy or Louisville coach? Or will they wait for Ark.St. to hire someone, then poach them?

Charlie Strong would be the one I'd go after.

[tarcone]

Id love to see Urban Meyer go to Texas.

I was listening to ESPN radio and all the good coaches have recently signed extensions, Saban, Malzone, Fisher. So those guys are off the table, presumably.
Strong was mentioned. As was Mora and a couple others. I couldnt see the list MBBF put up, as Im not a Rivals member.

Texas is the best job in college. Great facilities, bottomless pockets, talent rich recruiting ground dying to go to UT. Plum job.

[BillJasper]

Didn't Mora just get an extension as well when the Washington job opened up?

[tarcone]

You are correct. Mora was one of the 2 I couldnt remember that has just gotten an extension.

Thanks for that reminder. I had that mixed up.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It wasn't my source. I posted a post from a source in Texas from his Twitter account. If you're going to laugh, laugh at the idiots in Texas who thought there was ever a chance that they could land Saban.

It's actually an amazing story being told by Paul Finebaum at ESPN and the guys over at the Birmingham newspaper. Crux of the story is that Saban's agent played the UT leadership for nearly a year to get him a higher paying contract at Alabama. Finebaum said yesterday that Texas should be thanking Mack Brown for the loyalty he's shown. He said the fact that Mack Brown hasn't left only makes it embarrassing for UT. If he left, they would have been a national laughing stock above and beyond the mistakes they've already made of late. Finebaum stated that Texas should be aware that they're the third best program in their state and start acting like it.

Death of the story that wouldn't die: How rumors of Nick Saban's exit from Alabama never came to pass | AL.com

You quoted the guy as a source. You fell for the bait. There is no way Texas is the 3rd best program in the state. TTU and TCU aren't even remotely on Texas's level. Let's see how A&M does over the long haul without guys like Manziel and Evans there and their coach in constant rumors of going elsewhere.

[BillJasper]

I think its cute that people think because Texas A&M has had a couple of good years that they are suddenly a better or more attractive program than Texas.

If they can keep up their current level of success over a decade plus, then we will talk.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Cap Ologist

So, who is the frontrunner for the job? Not really anyone in college available that would be seen as much of an upgrade. Maybe Vandy or Louisville coach? Or will they wait for Ark.St. to hire someone, then poach them?

Nice

SI

[CU Tiger]

If you think UT is the 3rd best program in the state of TX that is a You problem.
Are they currently in the 3rd position as far as football talent?
Maybe.
But there isn't another school in the country that can stack dollars with Texas with the possible exceptions being OkSt and Oregon....I don't think Nike would go that far to alienate so much of their customer base...but I'd love to see a Pickens V Ut bidding war.

I know MBBF hates UT..but Bama doesn't thrown 10mm out the window unless they are legitimately concerned that Saban is gone.

I think the play actually was reversed. I think Mack was offended that they openly chased Saban while he was there, so I think he stayed around just until Saban got his extension and then walked as a final F U to UT...

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I think its cute that people think because Texas A&M has had a couple of good years that they are suddenly a better or more attractive program than Texas.

If they can keep up their current level of success over a decade plus, then we will talk.

I'm no Longhorn fan but it's got to be one of the top 5 jobs in the country if not top.

-Largest athletic program budget in the country
-If not the top, one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country
-You have a good city and school to recruit to that is attractive to students
-Fans are good but not SEC crazy so expectations are not stupidly high
-You're going to get paid big money

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

-Fans are good but not SEC crazy so expectations are not stupidly high

I nearly spit my drink out when I saw this. There's not a fan base with more unrealistic expectations than Texas. Of course, some of that is a real expectation given that there's likely not another athletic program that has underachieved more given their financial position than the University of Texas.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm no Longhorn fan but it's got to be one of the top 5 jobs in the country if not top.

-Largest athletic program budget in the country
-If not the top, one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country
-You have a good city and school to recruit to that is attractive to students
-Fans are good but not SEC crazy so expectations are not stupidly high
-You're going to get paid big money

SI

I understand all this so why is it that they've won one title in 45 years? We would all agree to all that's been said so why doesn't Texas actually win more? Mack Brown did better than those before him not named Royal so what's going on? It can't all be Brown's fault.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This is a prime example of why Texas is going to struggle so mightily to hire a top coach. The athletic department and the university leadership is just an unmitigated disaster at this point. From Chip over at OrangeBloods.com (it's shocking this guy is even considered a legitimate journalist):

"The entire athletic department is an utter chaos this
afternoon after the events of the last 24 hours and I thought you guys
might appreciate an update from inside the walls. People don't know what
to do or what's going to happen, but until yesterday it was 100%
established that Mack Brown would be retiring at a press conference that
was scheduled for today. How do I know that? Because I was asked to
attend. Not only that but I'm on an email chain that originates from a
member of the BOR and he informed those of us in this email list that
that Brown was stepping down and that there would be a new coach in
place by the end of next week.

"So what happened? Mack is what happened.

"As someone that walks the halls of Bellmont Hall every day, I can inform
you with 100% certainty that the discussion this week that Mack lost his
shit after the media reports got out that he was resigning. A number of
people in the department were told that the banquet was going to be
dedicated to Mack and Deloss which is why last night was so
uncomfortable. My seat at last night's banquet was a few tables over
from where Mack and Sally were sitting and the tension in the room was
so thick that I thought were going to suffocate. My wife walked up to
Sally last night before it all started and said hello but Sally just
kept on walking. I've never seen her like that until last night. Now
nobody knows what's going to happen. We just know that it is really
uncomfortable and one of the highest level donors in the room last night
nearly walked out of the room when he saw the Saban news on his phone.
According to someone at his table, he swore that he would help burn
everyone to the ground. In talking with a few friends over breakfast
today, he's not alone. There are a lot of very unhappy high level donors
today and I can only imagine the kind of hell that Steve Patterson is
living today because this is not what he came here for.

"Also, the current members of the coaching staff are at the end of the road. They
feel like they have been left hanging with their balls on the chopping
block and it is very likely that Mack will have to replace both
coordinators and multiple assistants if he wants to come back for
another season. They are not going to stick around if they have options
and I would expect to start hearing rumors of defections very soon.

"All of this happened because of Mack Brown's ego and his refusal to accept
his role in any failures that he has created. He is still the coach
today because he will not let anyone push him out, especially not Chip
Brown. I have not talked to one single person that actually knows what
will happen next, but a number of friends who collect paychecks from
Bellmont plan on encouraging their friends attending the game in San
Antonio to create a "scene worse than the one with Chris Simms in 2001".
That was actually said today outloud by someone from the Foundation
department today ay breakfast. Those at the table this morning at Kerby
Lane all agreed to my astonishment.

"Bill Powers played the BOR like a fiddle and by the time they regroup, he'll simply walk off into
retirement knowing he screwed everyone who threatened his viability for
the last year. I wish I had encouraging words for you today but the
program is being
held hostage by a single man's ego and it might be held hostage until it
gets so ugly that his ego no longer matters.

"Thanks Mack. You have truly lived up to everything anyone has ever said about
you behind closed doors. Petty, insecure, rotten, mean, vindictive,
selfish and delusional. All of those apply.

"Our university is in serious trouble if all of this stands."

[murrayyyyy]

I don't think Texas has a choice but to pray Gundy has gotten sick of Boone.

[tarcone]

I bet Texas could pry Greg Davis away from Iowa.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

(it's shocking this guy is even considered a legitimate journalist):

And yet you quote him.

[Cap Ologist]

What happened with Chris Simms in 2001?

[CU Tiger]

First off, Chip is one of the hardest working men in the rivals network. He busts his ass and runs his site as good as anyone. If anything Chip is too connected.

Now he could use a dose of journalistic control, but please don't insult a friend of mine who I am positive you have never met.

Texas will not struggle to hire a good coach. I'm sorry it pains you so bad but Texas isin another stratosphere from mizzou, if that is your basis of comparison you really don't have a clue what they are.

[Lathum]

People take this shit to seriously.

[MrBug708]

I know Texas has some big expectations out of their program, but I've never thought they are an unrealistic athletic department in general. I mean, Rick Barnes STILL has a job

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

First off, Chip is one of the hardest working men in the rivals network. He busts his ass and runs his site as good as anyone. If anything Chip is too connected.

Now he could use a dose of journalistic control, but please don't insult a friend of mine who I am positive you have never met.

Texas will not struggle to hire a good coach. I'm sorry it pains you so bad but Texas isin another stratosphere from mizzou, if that is your basis of comparison you really don't have a clue what they are.

Don't blame me. The Texas leadership is the one that blatantly preoccupied with Mizzou. The rest of us just find great amusement in it all.

Chip may be a great guy, but he's a lousy journalist. People can be both things. You hit the nail on the head when you noted he's way too connected to the point where he favors those connections in his reporting.

We'll see who's right on the coach in due time. I do find it hilarious that the hot list I linked out repeatedly says on most of the candidates that 'Texas won't have to go that low on the list'. They better edit those comments while they still have a chance to do so because they're not getting anyone on the top part of that list.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Don't blame me. The Texas leadership is the one that blatantly preoccupied with Mizzou.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Don't blame me. The Texas leadership is the one that blatantly preoccupied with Mizzou. The rest of us just find great amusement in it all.

For someone not preoccupied with something, you seem to be doing an awful lot of fucking posting about it. Why don't you prove us all wrong and shut up FOR ONCE.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, let's try something different:

8-4/Alamo, 9-4/Alamo, 8-5/Holiday, 5-7/None

That's the four seasons since the 37-21 loss to Alabama in the title game.

If this is such a great job with so many advantages -- the recruiting base, the money, etc, etc -- then what the hell was Brown doing to fuck things up & what does the next HC have to do to fix it.

I guess what I'm looking for here is something along the lines of "how bad a shape is what the next guy inherits actually in"

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, let's try something different:

8-4/Alamo, 9-4/Alamo, 8-5/Holiday, 5-7/None

That's the four seasons since the 37-21 loss to Alabama in the title game.

If this is such a great job with so many advantages -- the recruiting base, the money, etc, etc -- then what the hell was Brown doing to fuck things up & what does the next HC have to do to fix it.

I guess what I'm looking for here is something along the lines of "how bad a shape is what the next guy inherits actually in"

I'm not an expert on college football but it seems to me that Texas is trying to run an offense similar to what teams like Baylor and Oklahoma State run but don't really have the personnel to do it. Whatever offensive scheme the new coach decides to roll with, he needs to make sure he gets in the athletes that can execute it.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The Texas leadership is the one that blatantly preoccupied with Mizzou.

Says the person with zero self awareness.

[Butter]

QB is such a big part of an offense, and Texas just hasn't had one that can run their offense efficiently. Also, their defense has been horrendous for a couple of years now.

[HomerSimpson98]

Texas completely understands how important this hire is. To say that they will be back in the top echelon of college football again, irregardless of who they hire is silly. They need a young and fiery coach who will not be afraid to shake up the current laisez-faire attitude that has recently controlled the program. Who is that? I have no idea.

Another thing is that the Texas job is very unique and the MBBF email quote above is very reflective of their big money donors' mindset. These are rich, powerful people who are very comfortable in throwing power around. ANd there are lots of them. Mack was absolutely brilliant and handling all those egos and the next poor bastard coach better understand this goes with the job. I am not as familiar as other programs, but I would be surprised to learn that there was a more meddlesome set of donors out there than the ones at Texas. Ohio State?

Lastly, in Mack's heydey, his recruiting was peerless, especially in Texas. Today? Not so much. Where before all he had to do was beat Stoops out for a blue-chipper, now they are going up against Sumlin, Gundy at OSU, Stoops, Briles at Baylor (for offense anyways), LSU and Lies Miles, and now Saban. And that's not even counting the guys you immediately stop recruiting once you see that Mizzou is involved The SEC will only get more familiar with Texas as the seasons go on.

[HomerSimpson98]

Originally Posted by Cap Ologist

What happened with Chris Simms in 2001?

They booed him out of Texas Stadium in the midst of a rough game against CU in the Big12 Championship game. At halftime.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

QB is such a big part of an offense, and Texas just hasn't had one that can run their offense efficiently. Also, their defense has been horrendous for a couple of years now.

Yep, this is a big part of it. The Garrett Gilbert fiasco is something they still haven't recovered from at the QB position. It is a bit of revisionist history to say that they missed out on RG3 and Manziel. Neither one of them had many offers to play QB in Div. 1. If Gilbert turned out to be the QB he was projected to be, last year would have been his senior season.

Then, on the other side of the ball, after never missing with their DC hires, they finally whiffed big time with Manny Diaz.

[HomerSimpson98]

The problem with Mack is/was his promises. He goes to a Gilbert or David Ash and says you are the only QB I will recruit, if you sign. So once he gets them at they dont pan out or get hurt, you're left with D2 QBs like Case McCoy running the offense.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Says the UT AD with zero self awareness.

Fixed. How quickly we forget what 'leadership' entails at UT.

Texas AD on Mizzou: ‘Our bad years are better than their good years’ | CollegeFootballTalk

“We’re going to have good years again,” Dodds told the paper. “Our bad years are not that bad. Take a school like Missouri. Our bad years are better than their good years. But we’ve created a standard.”

Old and stupid is no way to lead.

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

Texas completely understands how important this hire is. To say that they will be back in the top echelon of college football again, irregardless of who they hire is silly. They need a young and fiery coach who will not be afraid to shake up the current laisez-faire attitude that has recently controlled the program. Who is that? I have no idea.

Another thing is that the Texas job is very unique and the MBBF email quote above is very reflective of their big money donors' mindset. These are rich, powerful people who are very comfortable in throwing power around. ANd there are lots of them. Mack was absolutely brilliant and handling all those egos and the next poor bastard coach better understand this goes with the job. I am not as familiar as other programs, but I would be surprised to learn that there was a more meddlesome set of donors out there than the ones at Texas. Ohio State?

Lastly, in Mack's heydey, his recruiting was peerless, especially in Texas. Today? Not so much. Where before all he had to do was beat Stoops out for a blue-chipper, now they are going up against Sumlin, Gundy at OSU, Stoops, Briles at Baylor (for offense anyways), LSU and Lies Miles, and now Saban. And that's not even counting the guys you immediately stop recruiting once you see that Mizzou is involved The SEC will only get more familiar with Texas as the seasons go on.

This is extremely well stated. Until you deal with UT leadership, you don't have any idea the level of dysfunction that occurs in that school. As you noted, Mack Brown deserved a great deal of respect for managing it all relatively well over his time at UT. I will say that the thing that people aren't considering is how much many in the coaching fraternity know just how bad it is if you decide to take the job. There's a lot of coaches that would tell you that Texas couldn't pay me enough to take that job, hence the reason they have to overpay for any coach they get.

[BillJasper]

What about Texas making a play for Bill O'Brien? The buyout would be expensive but the guy is a pretty good coach.

[cartman]

MBBF seems to be awfully fixated on a throwaway quote.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, let's try something different:

8-4/Alamo, 9-4/Alamo, 8-5/Holiday, 5-7/None

That's the four seasons since the 37-21 loss to Alabama in the title game.

If this is such a great job with so many advantages -- the recruiting base, the money, etc, etc -- then what the hell was Brown doing to fuck things up & what does the next HC have to do to fix it.

I guess what I'm looking for here is something along the lines of "how bad a shape is what the next guy inherits actually in"

Let's not forget who Mack Brown is.
Recruiter extraordinaire?
Can be.
Great Evaluator of talent?
Nope.
Great Game Day Coach?
Nope.

Mack can deliver as good a speech as anyone in college football. To me that was evidence by his retirement monologue that has been played ad nauseum. But he is not a great coach, never has been. And in recent years he has recruited based on Rivals.com and Scout.com ratings, in short he has become Larry Coker.

Now a good to very good coach at Texas will have unlimited potential.
A friend of mine spoke with someone last night who represents a current college coach who has had preliminary conversations regarding the UT opening. One of the first questions the potential candidate asked was "What will be my coordinator and assistant annual budget?"

The UT reply, we are prepared to guarantee $10MM/year and could go higher if needed provided proper justification.

"What about support staff, S&C staff, non-regulated staff?"
UT thinks an additional $10MM/yr is reasonable here but would like to stay closer to $8MM/yr the first few years until results merit the additional spending.


Simply put that is unheard of even in Tuscaloosa.
Bama employs 5 former D1 coordinators in "support roles".

[Hell former Clemson DC Kevin Steele (also a former DC at Bama and in the NFL as well as former Baylor HC) makes $250k/yr to review film and cut ups for the coordinators.]

Texas wants to out spend Bama just to prove their commitment.

The right guy, who knows how to sue that money will build a juggernaut.


But back on track, what was Brown doing wrong.
He fills up his recruiting board earlier than anyone in the country, without evaluating senior film on most of his recruits. Then he is "too good of a guy" to pull an offer.
Recruiting is a big piece.

Next Brown needs to get good coordinators under him to be successful...he has slipped there.

If a X&O mastermind comes there...he will likely struggle mightily to handle the outside pressures of the boosters.

As much as I cringe saying this, someone like Swinney at Clemson (who has less clue X&O than half this board) would be great at Texas. He would hire the best coordinators in the country, recruit and schmooze his ass off and win big.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Fixed. How quickly we forget what 'leadership' entails at UT.

Texas AD on Mizzou: ‘Our bad years are better than their good years’ | CollegeFootballTalk

No need to fix what I said when it is so easily true. You are merely proving my point. Before coming to this board, Missouri football essentially was non-existent to me. The only reason I roughly care about it now is that it is in the SEC. So while what was said might not be literally true, it sums up the divide between the two programs rather well.

[HomerSimpson98]

Interesting post, CU. Not sure why they are willing to spend $10M on a coach just to say that they can? I'd be interested to know who that potential candidate is, but I dont want to put you on the spot. I assume it rhymes with Rabo Thinney.

You also hit the nail on the head with regards to Mack and his early offers. But that is the same process that worked for him in the 2000s since very few other coaches were doing it. I'd like to clarify one thing though.

Then he is "too good of a guy" to pull an offer.

Not true. What he does is he gets these guys in a 1-on-1 setting at a summer camp sophomore or junior year and tells them Texas is offering right now. If you sign with us, great and congrats! But if you walk out that door and I don't have your signature, then we'll "stop" recruiting you. And since Texas isnt what it used to be and kids dont like that kind of ultimatum, Mack wasn't closing as many of those top-tiered kids like he used to.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Matthean

No need to fix what I said when it is so easily true. You are merely proving my point. Before coming to this board, Missouri football essentially was non-existent to me. The only reason I roughly care about it now is that it is in the SEC. So while what was said might not be literally true, it sums up the divide between the two programs rather well.

Mizzou was one win away from the national championship game in 2007 and was ranked #1 in the nation going into the B12 Championship. Your profile says you came here in 2008. If it was non-existent, that was a willful disregard more than anything else because Mizzou was on everyone's radar at that point.

[Matthean]

Considering that was the first year since 1960 you guys mattered on a national level, I'll stand by my statement.

[Kodos]

Missouri Tigers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

National championships for Missouri

Baseball (Men) – 1954
Indoor Track and Field (Men) - 1965

So the next national championship for Missouri will be the first in your lifetime.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Considering that was the first year since 1960 you guys mattered on a national level, I'll stand by my statement.

Excellent diversion. It at least partially covered up the ridiculous previous statement.

Texas just called. They have a job for you.

[Thomkal]

:::sigh::: Maybe we can call a "temporary truce" for the holidays and stop all the Texas fans vs Missouri fans/Mizzou B-Ball fan? Its gone beyond a friendly rivalry to eye-rolling and sighing everytime you guys post about it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

:::sigh::: Maybe we can call a "temporary truce" for the holidays and stop all the Texas fans vs Missouri fans/Mizzou B-Ball fan? Its gone beyond a friendly rivalry to eye-rolling and sighing everytime you guys post about it.

I think you have your priorities backwards and maybe we should cancel Christmas this year so we can all focus on Missouri football instead.

[Buccaneer]

Or do what many did, put mbbf on ignore. It gets through these threads easier.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

:::sigh::: Maybe we can call a "temporary truce" for the holidays and stop all the Texas fans vs Missouri fans/Mizzou B-Ball fan? Its gone beyond a friendly rivalry to eye-rolling and sighing everytime you guys post about it.

Let's be honest here. I talked solely about Texas and the job until someone brought up Mizzou. But as soon as someone talks about it, I'm going to discuss it.

I'm not saying you have, but if people don't want to talk about Mizzou, don't bring it up in a thread where Mizzou clearly doesn't have any place (we're quite secure with our coach and program at this point).

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Or do what many did, put mbbf on ignore. It gets through these threads easier.

I continue to be baffled how a grown adult can't just ignore a post without having to use the ignore feature, but whatever helps I suppose.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

:::sigh::: Maybe we can call a "temporary truce" for the holidays and stop all the Texas fans vs Missouri fans/Mizzou B-Ball fan? Its gone beyond a friendly rivalry to eye-rolling and sighing everytime you guys post about it.

I don't think it was ever friendly. And I guess I am going to take Bucc's advice, though I feel kinda dirty about it.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

We all just need to stop feeding the troll in any of his myriad threads

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Back to the topic at hand and the expectations.......

Buckle up, it's going to be a wild ride

A sampling of the rhetoric.......

We're about to see one of the truly great college coaching searches in a generation.

For a decade, I've listened to rumors of top-level coaches foaming over the chance to take control of the Longhorn program and now we are going to see what the Joneses are truly capable of.

All that matters is getting it right and this is the Longhorns chance to prove what everyone has always suggested about them.

Go be the Joneses. Settling is for punks. Go be the Joneses

A warm send off (of Mack Brown) and a rebuild of Humpty Dumpty the sideshow mess from behind the scenes will make the open position even more attractive.

The spotlight is on The University of Texas. We're about to find out if what starts here truly changes the world.

[RedKingGold]

It's more like "Everyone vs. MBBF". I've never seen anyone more obtuse about how they are viewed at FOFC, myself included.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I nearly spit my drink out when I saw this. There's not a fan base with more unrealistic expectations than Texas. Of course, some of that is a real expectation given that there's likely not another athletic program that has underachieved more given their financial position than the University of Texas.

If expectations are so "unrealistic", how did Mack Brown and Rick Barnes been able to survive the last 4 (football) and 5 (basketball) seasons with all the advantages that program has? Football with one 9 win season during that time as the high water mark and basketball never making it to the Sweet 16 and only one season with 25+ wins?

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

If expectations are so "unrealistic", how did Mack Brown and Rick Barnes been able to survive the last 4 (football) and 5 (basketball) seasons with all the advantages that program has? Football with one 9 win season during that time as the high water mark and basketball never making it to the Sweet 16 and only one season with 25+ wins?

SI

Both have had previous success in the earlier part of their careers. I think they earned that longer leash during that time.

As for basketball, I don't think the expectations are nearly as big. I'm just not sure they even care that much to be honest.