NFL 2021 Regular Season Thread

[GrantDawg]

They were likely leaked by the league. Probably because Goodell wasn't too happy with the names Gruden called him.

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[GrantDawg]

Btw, they were sent to a work email. So no. You aren't afforded privacy to work emails. Always remember that.

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[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Thanks for that! That would explain why they were reading them.

My follow up question would be. Since his racist emails had nothing to do with what they were searching for isn't there some sort of privacy law against this sort of thing. Not defending it but I am just curious. This could open up an entire new can of worms in the NFL as I think Lathum said above. I would speculate a lot of these old time coaches think like Gruden.

NFL coaches don't have a union, so they have no privacy.

And this became a thing b/c the NY Times somehow got the emails. This stuff stayed buried for a decade otherwise. The leak might have come from the feds, not an NFL insider.

[21C]

I was trying to look up if Gruden had an ownership stake as part of signing with the Raiders since I remember hearing something about that at the time. Reports indicate that he did not but the $100 million deal was guaranteed. Would that be paid out in full?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by 21C

I was trying to look up if Gruden had an ownership stake as part of signing with the Raiders since I remember hearing something about that at the time. Reports indicate that he did not but the $100 million deal was guaranteed. Would that be paid out in full?

Most contracts have a "morality" clause. My guess is they fight it out for awhile and reach a settlement.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by 21C

I was trying to look up if Gruden had an ownership stake as part of signing with the Raiders since I remember hearing something about that at the time. Reports indicate that he did not but the $100 million deal was guaranteed. Would that be paid out in full?

I'm not an employment lawyer, but I'd think so. I can't see how that would be a firing for cause.

I also think that the NFL probably agreed to slip Mark Davis a check to cover it.

[QuikSand]

Under ordinary circumstances, if he were fired he'd get the balance of the deal, if he resigned he did not. No idea what nonsense the clown up in Oakland cooked up back in the PF Chang's.

[21C]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Under ordinary circumstances, if he were fired he'd get the balance of the deal, if he resigned he did not. No idea what nonsense the clown up in Oakland cooked up back in the PF Chang's.

That's why I thought it was strange that he resigned. If it meant missing out on $60 million then you would think he would say "fire me".

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

PF Chang's.

nice

[21C]

Special teams coordinator Rich Bisaccia named as interim HC.

[molson]

I'm concerned about the owner of this website.

Is Gruden gone yet?

[Ksyrup]

Kickers suck.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

They were likely leaked by the league. Probably because Goodell wasn't too happy with the names Gruden called him.

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Is there a chance the Vegas owner was in on this, too, wanting to get rid of Gruden on the cheap?

Like I don't think anyone goes "hey, feds, investigate us" because you never know what unexpected stuff could get turned up.

But if you wanted to get out from under a dumb 10 year contract, you might have some people inquire about what damning stuff was in there

SI

[GrantDawg]

Gruden is like "done, done" from football, right? There is like no way he could go back to being a commentator or anything. He is pretty much in Pate Rose type position now even without the official lifetime ban.

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[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Gruden is like "done, done" from football, right? There is like no way he could go back to being a commentator or anything. He is pretty much in Pate Rose type position now even without the official lifetime ban.

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He'll be rehired by the Raiders in like 3 years having "learned his lessons".

[molson]

I think he should start a subscription email newsletter.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Is there a chance the Vegas owner was in on this, too, wanting to get rid of Gruden on the cheap?

Like I don't think anyone goes "hey, feds, investigate us" because you never know what unexpected stuff could get turned up.

But if you wanted to get out from under a dumb 10 year contract, you might have some people inquire about what damning stuff was in there

SI

I'm confused by what you are saying.

As I understand it, the WFT investigation was meant to dig up all the stuff, expected and unexpected, that was (is?) going on in that organization. Jon Gruden's name popped up in Bruce Allen's and probably Jay Gruden's email.

The information from this investigation was always going to be leaked based on the issue that went on with WFT. Once Gruden's emails pop up and the contents are revealed, his position becomes untenable there.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Gruden is like "done, done" from football, right? There is like no way he could go back to being a commentator or anything. He is pretty much in Pate Rose type position now even without the official lifetime ban.

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All he has to do is join Nick Saban's rehabilitation coaching staff and he will be fine. That route has been well traveled and very successful.

Hell, he might get his dream job of being the head coach of Notre Dame after two or three years.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Is there a chance the Vegas owner was in on this, too, wanting to get rid of Gruden on the cheap?

Mark Davis is really really weird. And every indication is that he loves Gruden. I think that this was thrust upon him by the league.

He does not strike me as a scheme to get out of a bad contract type owner.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

He does not strike me as a scheme to get out of a bad contract type owner.

I mean that haircut has lasted for a long time

[QuikSand]

...he's not exactly a "oh god what have I done" sort of guy

[miami_fan]

So uh, who else was sending emails to the WFT organization during that time? Who was sending emails out of that organization and to who? What did those emails say?

[cuervo72]

Gruden could maybe run for Lt. Gov. of North Carolina.

[bob]

Or just part of this years Super Bowl halftime show

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I'm confused by what you are saying.

As I understand it, the WFT investigation was meant to dig up all the stuff, expected and unexpected, that was (is?) going on in that organization. Jon Gruden's name popped up in Bruce Allen's and probably Jay Gruden's email.

The information from this investigation was always going to be leaked based on the issue that went on with WFT. Once Gruden's emails pop up and the contents are revealed, his position becomes untenable there.

I don't think anything has leaked from the investigation but the Gruden stuff. To me it seems like someone who had an axe to grind with him.

It's good news for Raiders fans. Gruden was a fraud. The equivalent of Larry Coker who rode fame because he had a personality. Hopefully they hire someone competent to take over.

[RainMaker]

And thanks for Khalil Mack I guess.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Mark Davis is really really weird. And every indication is that he loves Gruden. I think that this was thrust upon him by the league.

He does not strike me as a scheme to get out of a bad contract type owner.

I think the league made it clear that he had to resign or be expelled from the league. If there's a payout, I wouldn't be surprised if the league covered that, as well.

[Kodos]

Wow. Mark Davis may have the worst hair ever.

[Swaggs]

I had never seen (or really heard of) Mark Davis and then saw a Frank Caliendo sketch where he played both Gruden and Davis. I was real, real confused and didn’t get it until I googled him.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I know we have a couple of Dolphins fans here. I don’t know how closely yall have been watching the season. What’s the outlook? Before the season, I would’ve held them up as the example of how to build a team. Collect assets, get a good coach, grab the QB when he’s available.

But based on the record, things seem to really be off the rails. What is your take on it?

A horrific offensive line and having two offensive coordinators is not only dumb, it's been a massive failure. Plus Jacoby has been so bad in relief of Tua, people have been calling for Sinnett to get his shot.

[thesloppy]

How can you guys not know the legend of Mark Davis, his haircut, his minivan with a VHS player, his 'office' at PF Changs & his silver and black pigs?? You're depriving yourself. Here's the profile that gave us a peak:

Are Mark Davis and his Raiders leaving Oakland?

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

How can you guys not know the legend of Mark Davis, his haircut, his minivan with a VHS player, his 'office' at PF Changs & his silver and black pigs?? You're depriving yourself. Here's the profile that gave us a peak:

Are Mark Davis and his Raiders leaving Oakland?

Loved rereading that

[Lathum]

Buccs removing Gruden from their ring of honor

[thesloppy]

As others have mentioned it's fascinating that this is all still rippling from the investigation into Washington's back office, and Jon Gruden's career is going up in a bonfire in an entirely different conference, while Dan Snyder has continued to avoid any and all repercussions. It certainly feels like the public is only seeing a fraction of this story & probably a distorted fraction at that.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

How can you guys not know the legend of Mark Davis, his haircut, his minivan with a VHS player, his 'office' at PF Changs & his silver and black pigs?? You're depriving yourself. Here's the profile that gave us a peak:

Are Mark Davis and his Raiders leaving Oakland?

That was interesting…

[spleen1015]

Watch the Andrew Brandt interview from the Dan Patrick Show this morning. He brings up some interesting questions about Gruden. It will be on Youtube at some point today.

There are tens of thousands of emails and we're only getting the Gruden bits. Someone wanted him fired. They released the first one Friday and when he wasn't fired, they released the second set.

If Gruden gets fired for this, what if Jerry Jones did the same thing? What happens?

[miami_fan]

To me, the Gruden and Snyder discussions are separate. Efforts to combine them feel like efforts to defend and deflect from Gruden. I am not saying that is definitely what is happening, just what it feels like to me.

I did not realize until yesterday that no written report about the findings of the WFT investigation. There should have been a report. They should release all the emails and the other information confirming or denying the allegations . To do otherwise is wrong IMO.

AND ALSO

Gruden's emails did see the light of day and his situation played out the way it did.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

If Gruden gets fired for this, what if Jerry Jones did the same thing? What happens?

Ask Donald Sterling

[thesloppy]

Yea, kind of touching on what miami_fan said it feels a bit like defending Gruden to respond to him catching the consequences of his own actions with "what about XXXXX??" but it's also hard NOT to have that kind of guttural response considering the Goodell-era NFL's history of arbitrary and performative punishment & the (what I assume is) common assumption that many/most of the NFL's good-old-boy owners harbor beliefs much worse than Jon Gruden was dumb enough to put into his work emails and/or actively supporting coaches/players that have done worse (e.g. Tampa Bay removing Gruden from their Ring of Honor while actively ignoring Antonio Brown's history).

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

How can you guys not know the legend of Mark Davis, his haircut, his minivan with a VHS player, his 'office' at PF Changs & his silver and black pigs?? You're depriving yourself. Here's the profile that gave us a peak:

Are Mark Davis and his Raiders leaving Oakland?

That really is a great read, interesting guy. And loveable in a misfit toy kind of way.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

That really is a great read, interesting guy. And loveable in a misfit toy kind of way.

He's definitely more likeable than someone like Jerry Jones. It seems like his life was formed entirely around Al's constant rejection.

[BYU 14]

I got that same vibe, amazing how comparatively humble and unpretentious he is.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

To me, the Gruden and Snyder discussions are separate. Efforts to combine them feel like efforts to defend and deflect from Gruden. I am not saying that is definitely what is happening, just what it feels like to me.

I get where you're coming from, but to me they're linked. With what's come out on Gruden, hasta la bye bye and don't let the door hit you on your way out, but I also agree with those who say that we know there's a lot of other terrible things going on that we don't know about - heck, some that we do - and what ends up happening is the NFL is about winning and profit and those go above all else almost every time.

I don't think it's at all a given that what happened to Sterling would happen to Jones in the NFL. The NFL culture isn't the same, and Goodell isn't Adam Silver. I think it's far more likely that Gruden is just the tip of the iceberg, than it is 'wow, this guy was way out of line, glad we found out, buh-bye'. I don't think we know what, if anything, would be enough for the NFL to get rid of an owner.

To your other point, I agree with the goal of them being transparent on the Washington investigation, and if they did that it would be a great way of beginning to move towards a situation where the above conclusions can be walked back. I don't see anything in their past and current behavior though to indicate there's more going on that PR and the likelihood that this came out because and only because somebody wanted Gruden gone for whatever reason and decided to make it happen. He still deserves every inch of the consequences for his actions, but there's more here than that.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I get where you're coming from, but to me they're linked. With what's come out on Gruden, hasta la bye bye and don't let the door hit you on your way out, but I also agree with those who say that we know there's a lot of other terrible things going on that we don't know about - heck, some that we do - and what ends up happening is the NFL is about winning and profit and those go above all else almost every time.

I don't think it's at all a given that what happened to Sterling would happen to Jones in the NFL. The NFL culture isn't the same, and Goodell isn't Adam Silver. I think it's far more likely that Gruden is just the tip of the iceberg, than it is 'wow, this guy was way out of line, glad we found out, buh-bye'. I don't think we know what, if anything, would be enough for the NFL to get rid of an owner.

To your other point, I agree with the goal of them being transparent on the Washington investigation, and if they did that it would be a great way of beginning to move towards a situation where the above conclusions can be walked back. I don't see anything in their past and current behavior though to indicate there's more going on that PR and the likelihood that this came out because and only because somebody wanted Gruden gone for whatever reason and decided to make it happen. He still deserves every inch of the consequences for his actions, but there's more here than that.

To me it boils down to this.

Are we looking for the rest of the emails to be released to give us evidence about the toxic workplace culture of the WFT (the actual reason for the investigation) or in the NFL as a whole or are we we looking for the rest of the emails to give us evidence that Gruden is not the only guy or gal in the league who is sending problematic emails?

This is not to say I don't want to know why Gruden was targeted, why I only have heard about his emails at this time and not others and why I have not heard about the terrible things others in the league specifically Daniel Snyder have done ? I would. But that does not mean I am skipping over what I know about Gruden's emails to run to ask those other questions. I am comfortable dealing with that known uncomfortable information first.

[miami_fan]

After the last week, yeah

They announced Bobby Mitchell's jersey retirement in June for a September ceremony.

They announced Sean Taylor's jersey retirement on Oct. 14th for an Oct. 17th ceremony.

Forgive my skepticism.

— JP Finlay (@JPFinlayNBCS) October 14, 2021

[albionmoonlight]

It occurs to me that Gruden probably has always considered Mark Davis pathetic. And he probably sent a lot of emails along the lines of “ this guy is such a lonely loser that he is paying me $100 million to basically hang out with him. I should have asked for 200 million LOL.“

I can see why the NFL would not leak those emails making fun of an owner. And it would also explain why Mark Davis has been out of sight the last few days.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It occurs to me that Gruden probably has always considered Mark Davis pathetic. And he probably sent a lot of emails along the lines of “ this guy is such a lonely loser that he is paying me $100 million to basically hang out with him. I should have asked for 200 million LOL.“

I can see why the NFL would not leak those emails making fun of an owner. And it would also explain why Mark Davis has been out of sight the last few days.

I did see a quote from Mark Davis the yesterday, but it was basically "why don't you ask the NFL?" implying that he felt he was out of the loop. From his perspective, I can see being a little salty about an investigation into someone else's shitty culture leading to his team taking all of the consequences (that's-what-you-get-for-signing-Jon-Gruden-for-10-years aside).

[miked]

Why does London always get the shittiest games every year. I swear every time I see a London game on the schedule, it's like JAX-NYJ or some poop like that. Do fans in England not want to see GB-TB or something good?

[NobodyHere]

I think part of it is that Jacksonville has been pushing to become "Britain's Team" and they volunteer to play there whenever they get a chance.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by miked

Why does London always get the shittiest games every year. I swear every time I see a London game on the schedule, it's like JAX-NYJ or some poop like that. Do fans in England not want to see GB-TB or something good?

On his podcast this week, Robert Mays shouted "Look at this game and tell me there's a God!"