Better villager or wolf?

[hoopsguy]

I know that this is something that is discussed both in werewolf threads and during informal conversations. Most people have a pretty good idea about what they think is their strength, but I'm less interested in self-assessments and more interested in assessments of other players.

I'll throw out a couple to start, would be interested to see if people agree or disagree with these as well as hear thoughts on others.

Lathum - pretty easy one, better wolf. He may be the best person around at squeezing out "one more day" in mid/late games, time and time again.

Barkeep - better villager. Consistently generates meaningful conversation in threads. Like most good villagers, is tougher to shake in mid/late game as a wolf.

KWhit - better villager. A guy that I want on my team when I play, as he seems to be able to separate out a good amount of the distracting conversation and keep focused on meaningful issues. Which means that I hate playing against him as a wolf because it is tougher to misdirect him.

[Lathum]

Path12- Better villager, ers. Puts together the "puzzle" maybe better then anyone else. I am amazed he doesn't get whacked early more often because once he gets momentum he is relentless.

[Passacaglia]

Interesting thread. I'm not sure I've played enough games to have ideas about this, though.

[st.cronin]

Generally agree with those, although I think KWhit makes a mighty strong wolf as well. I'll leave off comment on players still active in the Beckinsale game:

Alan T - I think makes a much better wolf, as a villager I think he tends to talk himself into things.

hoopsguy - Overrated villager, but a very strong wolf. Has a persuasive personality, which magnifies his errors as a villager, but allows him to play very effectively as a wolf.

As a wolf, I love being matched up against those two, because I feel like its a fair fight.

Chief Rum - Terrific villager. I haven't seen him play too much as a wolf.

Swaggs - One of the best villagers out there.

Those two absolutely terrify me as a wolf.

[Alan T]

Hoopsguy - Better villager. While he is a pretty good wolf, I feel as a villager he is one of the best at putting together 2 and 2 in order to nail down who the remaining wolves are from just a small handful of clues.

Chief Rum - Similar to Hoopsguy, an excellent villager. Often is able to put together all forms of information from the course of the game in order to put together a good direction for the village to head in. While his wolf is ok, I think he really shines as a villager.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Path12- Better villager, ers. Puts together the "puzzle" maybe better then anyone else. I am amazed he doesn't get whacked early more often because once he gets momentum he is relentless.

I have a pretty similar take on Swaggs. I don't want him around by Day 4 or 5 when I'm a wolf because he really steps up his involvement at this point and is right an awful lot of the time.

[Alan T]

Hehe, interesting St.Cronin and I post at the same time with two different directions on hoopsguy. All I know is that in games when Hoops is a villager and I am not, he scares me as much or more than anyone. In games I've tried to leave him around, he ends up just being super dangerous where we finally end up saying,"We have to just kill him off now before he gets locked in"

[Alan T]

I agree on Swaggs. I think Swaggs is one of the most underrated WW players, and in many games have seen him become a very dominant villager force around day 4-6

[path12]

Hmmm. I'm going to have to think about this.

[Lathum]

Telle- Super sharp after only playing in 2 games she seems to really "get it"

[st.cronin]

A couple of guys who haven't been playing lately that are fantastic villagers:

Narcizo, Fouts

[st.cronin]

Two solid wolves, very hard to read:

ntndeacon, Tyrith

[Swaggs]

Fun thread.

I'll throw a vote out for two underrated wolves: Path12 and ntndeacon. These guys both seem to play enough to keep from being under the radar, but don't put themselves out front, so I am always wondering what they are up to by day 4 or 5.

I think Alan T is a great wolf, as well. I don't believe I have ever been a wolf with him, so I don't have a great incite as to how he plays as one. But, I always want to trust him when he is a villager, because he always seems to systematically track things (so he is very helpful to our side) and I almost always agree with (or can, at least, understand) his logic. Basically, I always want him on my side when I am a villager, so it is always a surprise when he is not.

I think LSG is coming along, as a villager, as well. She does a good job of getting herself deep into most games, because she always seems to be under suspicion, so the wolves don't want to nightkill her.

[Barkeep49]

I'll give one from each side where I think the play is distinctly better one way.

To me, I think the best villager around is Chief. He seems to make less mistakes as a villager, in terms of being responsible for some villager's lynching, than other big name villagers such as hoops. I think that this strength makes it harder for him to shift gears as a wolf, where more manipulation is required.

I would say Lathum is a terrific wolf in terms of how he able to manipulate and persuade and just stay around for no good reason. He is probably the best liar we have in the game. This skills is obviously less useful as a villager.

[st.cronin]

Completely agree Barkeep. I think whenever I'm a wolf I always argue to kill Chief on day 1. And I'm always tempted to lynch Lathum on day 1, if I'm a villager.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Lathum is probably the best liar we have in the game.

I think this is something he should be proud of, within this narrow context, right?

[path12]

This is hard.

Better wolves: Lathum, Alan, ntn. And you have to mention Blade here.
Better villagers: Hoops, Barkeep, Chief.

I really think Chief is probably the closest to a two way player as we have. He's effective no matter what side he's on. I don't think we'd have gotten him this game if we hadn't been lucky.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

This is hard.

Better wolves: Lathum, Alan, ntn. And you have to mention Blade here.
Better villagers: Hoops, Barkeep, Chief.

I really think Chief is probably the closest to a two way player as we have. He's effective no matter what side he's on. I don't think we'd have gotten him this game if we hadn't been lucky.

I'll comment on that after this game is over. Needless to say I figure alot of people were confused about my actions this game.

[JHandley]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'll comment on that after this game is over. Needless to say I figure alot of people were confused about my actions this game.

Abso-friggin'-lutely

[st.cronin]

On the players still in it at the end:

LoneStarGirl - better villager - remember she nailed all three wolves in one post a couple games back.
Schmidty - tremendous wolf, really underrated imo

[tanglewood]

I am a generally poor villager IMHO, but think I play quite well as a wolf. Though I've only been one once that I can remember and though I got lynched the wolves won the game. I do remember one occasion where I was a human seer who won with the wolves and thought I played that well.

I think that Barkeep is a good villager generally as is Alan T. Lathum is probably the best wolf that I can think of off the top of my head.

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

On the players still in it at the end:

LoneStarGirl - better villager - remember she nailed all three wolves in one post a couple games back.
Schmidty - tremendous wolf, really underrated imo

Although I just went six days before anybody thought I was a wolf (besides neon) If I had kept my vote on schmidty instead of changing it to gonzo then y'all still wouldn't know i was a wolf.

[saldana]

i got no love

i think there is an inherent bias in the way we are all deciding who's strength lies where, based upon our own dealings with that person...

for instance, I think Hoops is a tremendous wolf based upon watching from the sidelines in the Star Wars game...he talked himself out of the lynch 4 days in a row, and had such great misdirection going on that I was laughing while i was reading the thread, watching him lead people around.

its all a matter of perspective, based upon who has caught us when we were wolves, and who we have had a hand in catching when they were furry.

that said, i think anxiety is a great villager...he does amazing analysis of every single post and will catch tiny little inconsistancies and then never back down.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by saldana

i got no love

i think there is an inherent bias in the way we are all deciding who's strength lies where, based upon our own dealings with that person...

for instance, I think Hoops is a tremendous wolf based upon watching from the sidelines in the Star Wars game...he talked himself out of the lynch 4 days in a row, and had such great misdirection going on that I was laughing while i was reading the thread, watching him lead people around.

its all a matter of perspective, based upon who has caught us when we were wolves, and who we have had a hand in catching when they were furry.

that said, i think anxiety is a great villager...he does amazing analysis of every single post and will catch tiny little inconsistancies and then never back down.

Having played with you with me as a wolf and you as a villager, with me as a villager and you as a wolf, both of us as villagers, and with both of us as a wolf, I think you are pretty strong both as wolf and villager. I dont really find you that much stronger one area over the other since you are really good in both. If I had to choose for you, I would put you much more dangerous as a villager. I know at least twice where I had the entire village fooled except for you.

[hoopsguy]

Bunch of new players since the last time I saw this thread, as well as many people who were not discussed much.

Better villagers - PurdueBrad, RendeR, McCollins, Narcizo

I'm not sure who I would classify, among recent players, as better wolves. I've seen Heinz take a couple of good runs, but think he and Danny are about even between the two sides from what I've observed.

[jeheinz72]

I'd agree on all 4 of them being better villagers. Tough to say though 100% as I think PB was being a fine wolf in this last game. I didn't really scan and catch him b/c of his actions but more due to a lack of better options. He was pretty much SOL once I caught him though, as his only play was to counter-reveal and I had covered my bases pretty well in that regard.

I think, as far as myself, I'm either really good or really bad on either side of the coin. I've had some absolutely miserable villager games (Cruise game comes to mind) and some pretty solid ones.

If I had to pick, I'm a better wolf than I am a villager I think. I don't think I've been "caught" too early as a wolf yet. But I also haven't been a wolf too many times either so that could be a sample-size issue.

[jeheinz72]

Clap is a better villager. If only because when he gets lynched on Day one it hurts the least if he is one.

Ba-da-bum-bum.

[claphamsa]

JERK!

[Alan T]

Alot of people put me as much better wolf than villager a while back.. I think I'd like a second opinion on that as I've had some really bad wolf games recently and I felt I had some strong performances as a villager (Spawn, Heros, etc) instead!

As for the newer people mentioned, Jeheinz definitely is a really strong villager I feel. I really liked mccollins wolf play.. The others I feel that I don't know if I would push them more as villager or wolf as a better role for them.

[jeheinz72]

I keed. I keed.

[st.cronin]

I don't know, Narcizo makes a pretty awesome wolf.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Alan T

As for the newer people mentioned, Jeheinz definitely is a really strong villager I feel.

Interesting. I think I've generally sucked lately as a vanilla villager. I was ok in Spawn I suppose. I only really made it in this last one because I was the Seer and because of the party setup.

The kitten and cruise games I played poorly, at best.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I don't know, Narcizo makes a pretty awesome wolf.

Agreed. Narc is a *really* good player. I know having to PM with him in the Chess game when I was a wolf and he was a villager was challenging to say the least.

[mccollins]

I think getting out of 3 straight lynches as a wolf in the draft game has been the funnest experience for me in WW thus far.

I know I've got some holes in my villager game, but after only 2 games as wolf (with 2 vastly different outcomes), I don't know if I'm much better at either.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I don't know, Narcizo makes a pretty awesome wolf.

I didn't list Narcizo because I felt he was a pretty awesome villager too. I really like the games Narcizo plays in. I just don't think he is that much better/worse as a villager compared to a wolf is all. As a Villager, he is exactly the type of villager I like to have on a team with me, similar to Chief or Hoops or several others.. as he is willing to give pretty sound analysis and work through an issue covering alot of points that often get missed or left out. Just like what Pass did alot of in this last game with mapping out possible scenerios.

[st.cronin]

If Narcizo played more often I think he'd challenge hoopsguy for "best overall player".

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I've still got you as a better wolf. However, you had one of the great villager games ever in Heroes.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, I've still got you as a better wolf. However, you had one of the great villager games ever in Heroes.

[Narcizo]

Ooooo! You guys.

I think you're over-rating me. I would be a good villager if I wasn't so obsessive. If anything I'd say I'm best as a non-participant (both thinking as a wolf - when I know the team, and as a villager).

I'd say Hoops is a better wolf than villager, but his reputation means that it's very difficult for him as a wolf. I think his play as a villager is solid - which is a great virtue but I think I'd rather have Alan's more erratic play on a villager team. I don't think I've seen Alan play as a wolf much but it would have to be preeetty good to top his play as a villager. (Again from what I've seen, obviously).

[RendeR]

I think Saldana makes a terrific Chick...err.wait, what was the question?