Heroes : Season 3 - The Offical Thread - spoilers likely

[ISiddiqui]

HRG = Monster (he coldly slit Sylar's throat)

Let's be fair. HRG never had powers to lose. But I do like him going back into ambiguously evil territory.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Let's be fair. HRG never had powers to lose. But I do like him going back into ambiguously evil territory.

Of course he didn't, but his parallel was how he would react to the super power people once they lost their power. I thought that was pretty obvious.

[Thomkal]

Best part of the episode was Sylar vs HRG while his daughter was "dying" Worse part was Sylar's metamorphis back into a monster apparantly killing the one person who he had a bond with. Just seemed too quick too soon to "devolve" back into his earlier state as if he hadn't gone through any soulsearching at all. And killing off (apparantly) a favorite character of many.

Have to admit the comic book geek in me loved the comic book store scene and the comment about the two workers there not growing up.

[jeheinz72]

I'd agree, bringing up these inconsistencies isn't nit-picking, it's pointing out that the writers on the show have no clue how to create a set of rules for a "universe" and abide by them. All those people died on Monday and my money is all of them will be back in the series later at some point.

It's just ridiculous. If the writers were better, or gave a little thought to how to portray things and in what order, this should would be about 100x better.

[Travis]

I think it's safe to say that Sylar is officially the most inconsistent character on TV right now. Here's hoping they find a way to bring his character back to being watchable as he seemed to be able to handle either side of the coin, just hard to do so when it's being flipped every week.

[Cringer]

OK, as far as the eclipse, maybe it doesn't always trigger a power loss. Maybe things have changed, who knows.

Also, it bugs me how people still get fixated on the first eclipse and saying it kick started everyone's powers. It never really did that IMO. They always had them. The Haitian is not part of the older generation and had his powers before the first eclipse. If you look at the timelines Nathan actually flew for the first time before the first eclipse. Sylar had his powers in full gear before the first eclipse. If anything, I think the first eclipse and maybe giving some the impression it kick started so much was the big mistake by the writers.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Cringer

OK, as far as the eclipse, maybe it doesn't always trigger a power loss. Maybe things have changed, who knows.

Also, it bugs me how people still get fixated on the first eclipse and saying it kick started everyone's powers. It never really did that IMO. They always had them. The Haitian is not part of the older generation and had his powers before the first eclipse. If you look at the timelines Nathan actually flew for the first time before the first eclipse. Sylar had his powers in full gear before the first eclipse. If anything, I think the first eclipse and maybe giving some the impression it kick started so much was the big mistake by the writers.

That's funny, because, originally, I was always under the impression that the first eclipse did not kick start everyone's powers...

Here is a discussion on this very topic back from the Season 2 Thread:

Originally Posted by saldana

all the main characters had their powers manifest during an eclipse, including claire (in the first episode of the show, and adam, although we didnt realize it at the time, in the last episode of season 1

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I am actually not sure if that part about Claire is accurate. I don't remember the first episode all that well (was there an eclipse starting it off?) If I recall correctly the first time we saw Claire was when she was having herself recorded while she jumped off the refinery. Her character arc started in media res. It was pretty clear that her powers had manifested before she was first shown on screen and she had been testing the range of her powers incremently over some period of time.

Originally Posted by saldana

youre correct that the first time we saw her was when she was jumping off the gantry at the quarry, but she had just discovered her powers...i dont recall exactly but i think she said it was the 38th attempt...the first scene of the pilot was an eclipse occuring, just like the one in the last scene, so it is reasonable to assume that if claire had just discovered her powers with a few days or weeks of the first eclipse, that it was the trigger for their manifestation....it was the trigger for peter, parkman, and nikki becoming aware of her abilities.

While I can't recall the specifics, it really seems that the writers, through multiple characters' dialogue (Hiro, Mohinder, etc.), themselves bought into this notion that it was the eclipse that kick started everything.

I don't think the viewers screwed this one up, I think the writers did. They are insanely sloppy. Just think about all the storylines/characters who have simply disappeared without a trace: Nathan's wife and the Irish chick being the worse examples.

[Matthean]

With two of the writers being axed, it will be interesting to see who Kring picks up as writers, or if he kicks in to pick up the slack. If he does, it should mean more consistent writing by default. He still should have been putting his foot down and making sure quality control was done correctly over the writing though. It's almost like one writer knew he had to set up the scene where HRG shoots Sylar/Elle and then the other writer knew he got to finish the scene, but thought they could toss in a sex scene before hand. Kring, or whoever simply glazed over how those two versions came together.

[MikeVic]

It was mentioned in the interview posted here with Kring that they'll ignore the thing with the Irish girl, so don't expect that to be resolved.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

It was mentioned in the interview posted here with Kring that they'll ignore the thing with the Irish girl, so don't expect that to be resolved.

That's fine with me. I couldn't stand her or the whole Irish thing. It was pretty stupid. Good to know that all that screen time they dedicated to it was entirely wasted!

[Anthony]

i think if this show lasts many more seasons (not likely), season 2 will be looked at as the black eye of the series, the red headed stepchild, the "season that never should have been".

[Matthean]

The sound of the cavalry coming.

[ISiddiqui]

May I just say, I LOVE the evil Sylar . The elevator scene was the greatest season of the entire season, "It does tingle" LOL!

And they got rid of Elle and Arthur this episode. So at least they are culling heroes. Now they have to find a way to get Hiro back from the past (I'm thinking a weird conversation with Kaito develops).

[Cringer]

If Arthur comes back I will finally jump on the "This show is dead" bandwagon.

I will say the best part of tonight's show, and maybe one of my favorite scenes since season 1, was Hiro and his mom. It was just great to me for some reason, but I am tired and won't even attempt to explain why.

Sylar being evil is pretty good. The preview for next week appears to maybe have Sylar and the Puppet Master guy coming together? If so that may be cool. Other then that I am not sure I am too excited about what looks to be coming. Nathan looks like he will take over Arthur's place, though he seems to have good intentions it won't turn out that way I am sure so you will have Nathan vs. Peter.

I am starting to wonder if Peter will never get his powers back? If deaths and power take aways hold up (which you can't count on happening with this show) then Sylar is the only super-powerful hero/villian left with Arthur gone and Peter powerless. Probably won't happen though, even though it might be good for the show.

edit: what took away from the great Hiro/Mom scene though was Arthur somehow time traveling to take the light thing.....huh? That is the main reason I want him to stay dead, he was almost getting god-like there.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Cringer

If Arthur comes back I will finally jump on the "This show is dead" bandwagon.


edit: what took away from the great Hiro/Mom scene though was Arthur somehow time traveling to take the light thing.....huh? That is the main reason I want him to stay dead, he was almost getting god-like there.

I will as well. I want to see characters stay dead, and not have neverending miraculous comebacks. Your edit is why I think he will stay dead. I think the writers are finally attempting to neutralize characters who have become too powerful.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I am starting to wonder if Peter will never get his powers back? If deaths and power take aways hold up (which you can't count on happening with this show) then Sylar is the only super-powerful hero/villian left with Arthur gone and Peter powerless. Probably won't happen though, even though it might be good for the show.

Have we forgotten about a certain formula?

edit: what took away from the great Hiro/Mom scene though was Arthur somehow time traveling to take the light thing.....huh? That is the main reason I want him to stay dead, he was almost getting god-like there.

Why the 'huh?'? He figured out that Claire was the light (or was supposed to be the light). Used the time travel that he took from Peter (who took it from Hiro) and then when he got there overheard present Hiro and Claire talking about it and figured out that present Hiro had the catalyst.

[Gary Gorski]

Two things on my mind from last night's episode. First, does present Claire still have the catalyst or does history automatically change for all present day characters because Hiro went back in time and changed something?

Second, and maybe this is nitpicking, but shouldn't Ando, Parkman and Daphne finish reading the comic book to see how to save Hiro rather than sitting there and wondering what will happen to him and how to save him?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Two things on my mind from last night's episode. First, does present Claire still have the catalyst or does history automatically change for all present day characters because Hiro went back in time and changed something?

Second, and maybe this is nitpicking, but shouldn't Ando, Parkman and Daphne finish reading the comic book to see how to save Hiro rather than sitting there and wondering what will happen to him and how to save him?

Logically, everything would change for present day characters, but the writers certainly haven't been consistent about that.

I figured since the comic was titled "Lost in Time" that it didn't resolve how to rescue Hiro.

[ISiddiqui]

Furthermore, it was never established that Claire WAS the catalyist. Just that she thought she was because of what Sylar said. Sylar could have been responding to something else.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Have we forgotten about a certain formula?



Why the 'huh?'? He figured out that Claire was the light (or was supposed to be the light). Used the time travel that he took from Peter (who took it from Hiro) and then when he got there overheard present Hiro and Claire talking about it and figured out that present Hiro had the catalyst.

Yes, the formula could give Peter and ability, for some reason I was kind of hoping that didn't happen that way though.

Forgot Peter had the time travel and Arthur took it, thanks for the reminder on that one.

[Thomkal]

not a bad episode other than the fact that I'm still having a hard time accepting "return to monster status" Sylar after everything he went through.

I don't want Arthur to return either, but there is a way. Somone removing the bullet from his brain and Adam's power bringing him back to life. And just where did the Catalyst go when it left Arthur-to Peter? Back to Claire or Hiro? Did all the powers he took from people go back to them? And I'm not quite buying Nathan going from wanting to reveal the fact that powers exist to the world to keeping the secret and using it make more heroes.

Though it was a nice tip of the hat to previous good dearly missed "The 4400" with the Marine getting the powers. He was the son of the maiin character of that show and had powers at one point on that show too. (I think)

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Though it was a nice tip of the hat to previous good dearly missed "The 4400" with the Marine getting the powers. He was the son of the maiin character of that show and had powers at one point on that show too. (I think)

I thought of The 4400 when I saw the marines, but didn't make the connection with the actor who played the marine who got a power, even though I knew I saw him from something.

[Captain2711]

Anyone else pissed off that in the past 3 weeks, the last minute of the show has continually run past 10 p.m. and is not recorded on the DVR?

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

not a bad episode other than the fact that I'm still having a hard time accepting "return to monster status" Sylar after everything he went through.

I don't want Arthur to return either, but there is a way. Somone removing the bullet from his brain and Adam's power bringing him back to life. And just where did the Catalyst go when it left Arthur-to Peter? Back to Claire or Hiro? Did all the powers he took from people go back to them? And I'm not quite buying Nathan going from wanting to reveal the fact that powers exist to the world to keeping the secret and using it make more heroes.

Sylar being evil is much better for the show. His lines were among the best in the episode.

Sylar would know were to put the bullet in his head as well as anyone so he doesn't regen. Nathan was told Authur isn't needed now because he's the leader so they have little reason to revive him. I think they are finally starting to work on the show enough to do things like trim the roster some. Certainly with the forthcoming new heroes, ie Sgt. America they can afford to lose some. Elle's death just further proved that chapter two never happened. Much of chapter 3 was trying to overhual the screwup that was chapter 2. One more show to go and then they start having a focus again like they did in season 1.

[jeheinz72]

Solid ep. I'd agree that if Arthur et al come back I'll have to re-think my dedication.
BUT if they're smart and the uber-powerful dead stay dead, I'll be back in.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Sylar being evil is much better for the show. His lines were among the best in the episode.

Sylar would know were to put the bullet in his head as well as anyone so he doesn't regen. Nathan was told Authur isn't needed now because he's the leader so they have little reason to revive him. I think they are finally starting to work on the show enough to do things like trim the roster some. Certainly with the forthcoming new heroes, ie Sgt. America they can afford to lose some. Elle's death just further proved that chapter two never happened. Much of chapter 3 was trying to overhual the screwup that was chapter 2. One more show to go and then they start having a focus again like they did in season 1.

I agree with you that Sylar being evil is better for the show. I just think the "soul searching" he went through to return to his evil status was a pretty pointless exercise given the way he's acting now.

[Professor58]

Originally Posted by Captain2711

Anyone else pissed off that in the past 3 weeks, the last minute of the show has continually run past 10 p.m. and is not recorded on the DVR?

Yes, me too. Well, I chnaged the recording to add an extra 10 min from now on.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Professor58

Yes, me too. Well, I chnaged the recording to add an extra 10 min from now on.

I tried doing that for a while on shows, but ran into all kinds of problems with shows just not recording, especially on Thursdays when my wife would record 2-3 of the shows she watched and I would record 2-3 shows I would watch. Since we could only record two at a time, if any recorded longer for 5 minutes, it would prevent the next show from recording..

Why have stations started putting shows on 1 minute early or 1-2 minutes late these days? Is it to purposely annoy people who record their shows? With them all putting shows online to watch these days I can't imagine that to be the case.

I just never have understood why they started doing this. It takes me back to my youth and how annoyed I would get at TBS because they always had to start/stop shows 5 minutes late.

[Anthony]

i think they do it so that you're forced to DVR the show after the one you want, that way it seems like more people are tuning in for that 2nd show. just a hunch.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I agree with you that Sylar being evil is better for the show. I just think the "soul searching" he went through to return to his evil status was a pretty pointless exercise given the way he's acting now.

Yeah, this bothered me too. Sylar's personality was just wildly erratic from one episode to the next. It was as if the writers had no recollection of what had happened in the previous episode. I am perfectly fine with keeping Sylar as a monster/villain. He's pretty much right back where he started. I know it's the journey not the destination that's the interesting part, but, here, the journey was so scatter shot and poorly executed that it became totally pointless. That and it resulted in the death of my Kristen Bell. So, we all lose.

I, too, liked the scene with Hiro and his mother. I thought it was pretty touching.

Assuming Arthur doesn't come back from the dead, I don't think we'll ever really know why he wanted the formula so bad. Nathan's motivation is pretty clear (if not misguided): He thinks giving the right people powers will make the world a better place. Was this Arthur's plan as well? If he was such "make the world a better place" type of guy why was he so evil? I guess there's the whole ends justify the means, but he was really a poorly conceived character. They did much better with Linderman. At least there you sort of saw something that made sense. Arthur was just an asshole trying to accomplish something and willing to do anything to do it. A very poorly written character. Extremely so.

What was so horrible about the future Peter saw again? Other than evil Claire and him getting shot in the head? All I remember seeing was a bunch of people flying to work in suits and carrying briefcases. What was so awful again?

[ISiddiqui]

What was so horrible about the future Peter saw again? Other than evil Claire and him getting shot in the head? All I remember seeing was a bunch of people flying to work in suits and carrying briefcases. What was so awful again?

Didn't he see the nuclear explosion at Sylar's house?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Didn't he see the nuclear explosion at Sylar's house?

That was Parkman. From what I recall, that all whole thing was unrelated to everyone having super powers.

That had to do with Daphne being evil and them trying to go get Sylar and killing Sylar's kid (or his nehpew or something) and then Sylar exploded.

[Racer]

Pretty solid finale I thought. It looks like the plot might finally evolve rather then staying stagnant by always having season long "save the world" plots. Hopefully all the people that died this season actually stay dead and aren't revived since that's one of the things that really bothers me about Heroes.

Spoiler

I don't understand how Mohinder could have possibly got out of that building alive when Nathan and Peter barely got out alive.

Edit: So is Hiro still powerless then?

[ISiddiqui]

I love evil manipulative, let's see how dirty you can get Sylar. That just freaking awesome.

As for the spoiler, it may have something to do with the goo shower and depends if A can help with that.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I watched it this morning.... Here are my initial thoughts:

The writers on this show suck. They really, really suck. What the hell was with Nathan? How did he all of a sudden become super evil guy? Just a few days ago in Haiti, or wherever the hell they were, he was risking his life to save innocents. He was all about doing good. Then, all of a sudden he's on the verge of killing his brother with a metal pipe? What the...? And that whole: "Why did you save me? I wouldn't have done that." Uh, except for that time in the first season when you risked your life to save everyone by flying the exploding Peter away.

The change in Nathan is totally inexplicable. I seriously kept expecting them to reveal that somehow Arthur transported himself into Nathan right before he died. That really would have been the only logical way to explain that character's complete change in personality and moral code. It's like the writers had no clue what to do. Arthur was killed in the last episode and they needed a "bad guy" there and decided to morph Nathan into Arthur 2.0. What the fuck? (Also, why didn't Fire Hick and Snorty McFearsalot figure this stuff out earlier? Maybe they were afraid of Arthur and decided to rebel only after his untimely demise.

They really destroyed the character. He, like Sylar, has been all over the map. There was the crazy religious thing, the political thing, the good guy thing, the super evil thing... Wildly inconsistent.

They also used the old "bad guy gets killed from behind right before he's about to kill someone" trick twice in that episode. Lazy.

I wasn't sure about the whole Sylar's House of Horrors thing. I guess it was ok, but it just didn't seem to fit with anything that was going on anywhere else. In fact, that was one odd thing about the finale. The tone between the three separate storylines were so wildly different that the whole thing felt disjointed. You had crazy-ass Sylar's House of Horrors, you had the struggle between "good" brother and "newly minted bad" brother and the whole formula thing, and then you had the funny and goofy Ando Gets His Powers thing.

Still, at least the Sylar's House of Horrors was somewhat consistent with the character. At least the Sylar of the last couple of episodes. I don't exactly remember where all the various characters were, but how did Noah, Claire, and Claire's Bio-Mom all end up at Primatech?

Whatever happened to Molly? Who was taking care of her will Mohinder was all bugged out in the lab and Parkman was galavanting all over with the Nemesis? Maybe the Irish girl came back from the future and Nathan's crippled forgot-about wife were taking care of her in the Land Of Forgotten Characters.

One last thing: All hail President WORF!!!!

All that being said, the setup and preview for "Fugitives" looked pretty solid. Between that and President Worf, I will stick with the show for a little bit longer. I can't leave my Klingon brother hanging like that.

QAPLA'!!!

[spleen1015]

I think they hired George Lucas to write the transformation from Good to Bad Nathan.

[Gary Gorski]

I thought that was a great episode. I'm really intrigued to know who Sylar's parents really are.

As for Nathan I don't have a problem with it. I mentioned some time ago about the characters acting as if they were in pro wrestling of the 80s and 90s. There has to be a bad guy or bad team and when Arthur went down a new leader had to step up - Nathan. You had Nathan in Haiti wanting to give people abilities and be able to use them to take out the evil people oppressing the poor in the world. He comes out, sees Arthur dead and Peter with a gun and Peter talking about stopping the plan. That kind of puts him on the other side of Peter by default. Even after he's saved he's not the super evil guy who teams up with Tracy to take over the world - he fires her and he's pissed Peter ruined what he wanted done and he goes to beat the crap out of him. That seems pretty reasonable.

Who knows. Maybe he is a super evil guy now and is going to round up all the supers and then force them to do whatever it is he wants done.

[sabotai]

Agreed with pretty much everything HB said.

Also, if Daphne can go into the past by running fast while Ando super-charges her (ignoring the whole faster-than-light-time-travel nonsense)....how does doing the same exact thing bring them back to the future?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Agreed with pretty much everything HB said.

Also, if Daphne can go into the past by running fast while Ando super-charges her (ignoring the whole faster-than-light-time-travel nonsense)....how does doing the same exact thing bring them back to the future?

I'm also with HB and wondered the exact same thing to my wife about how do they get back.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, going faster than the speed of light can make you time travel, right? Would it matter if it is backwards or forwards in superhero world?

[Travis]

Geez guys, if you want to go forward in time you obviously go clockwise, backwards it's counter clock wise. I mean the writers obviously put a lot of thought into this...

What bugs me is that her super power is moving really fast right? So how do you explain that she can "carry" Ando/Parkman/etc when she's doing this or is she just pushing them ahead of her the entire time? I could buy it with Hiro's time travelling as anything he's holding/touching moves through space and time with him, but with her, they're selling it as if she's running, just faster than we can see, how does that equate into taking people with her?

[Crim]

Yeah why wouldn't she just rip their arm off when she runs away?

[sabotai]

I don't really have a problem with the carrying people as she runs (Nathan doesn't look like much of a muscle head, but he can carry two or three people as he flies).

But the original rule the writers set up was "Ando touches Daphne, Daphne goes super fast, Daphne goes back in time". I'm not someone who needs or wants everything explained, in fact I often find it annoying when writers go out of their way to explain every little detail, but the writers keep creating and breaking these rules that govern the powers that the characters have. If she can control if she goes forward or backwards in time, not only did she somehow master that right away, it kinda does need to be explained. "Ando touches Daphne, Daphne goes faster than light, Daphne time travels in either direction based on what direction the writers need her to go" = sloppy, lazy writing.

[Mota]

Wow, they've really written themselves into a hole. So many things about this season don't make any sense at all. And not even in a Lost "I don't know WTF is going on", it's more like a "the writers don't know what's going on".

The writers have to be shot for their lazy portrayal of Sylar. They spent so much time portraying him as a character who wasn't evil but just had some serious issues. They give him a chance for redemption, and even a way for him to continue accumulating powers without killing. Then all of a sudden for no reason it's all gone and he's back to Season 1 evil Sylar again. Just makes no sense.

Heroes is really running parallel to the X-Men comics. After a while you get lost in the continuity, and all that time travel and alternate universes turn into a big mush and mean nothing.

I also love how they can go 16 years in the past, do something major like having Arthur steal the catalyst, and NOTHING else changes other than the catalyst changing hands. Come on, something of that magnitude would have had huge ramnifications as the original people would have hunted him down instantly.

[Swaggs]

The sad thing about this chapter is that they didn't really introduce any new/interesting villians that will be around in the next chapter. The Puppet Master guy was pretty creepy and had a cool power, but got axed. Arthur was pretty underwhelming after his introduction (sucking Adam's life away was pretty awesome and unexpected), but with all the powers and tie-ins that he had, but he never really got off the ground. I feel like the idea for the final confrontation between Sylar and all of the released bad guys had the potential to be awesome, but there were not any or enough well-developed characters to do it justice.

I am pretty optimistic about the next chapter. Interesting concept and it should allow the writers to feature one or two characters (as they are hunted) per episode, hopefully like Lost does with the way the feature characters via flashback.

[jeheinz72]

3

As in the number of episodes this show has left with me if this terrible writing and plotlines continues.

[Poli]

I can't believe I missed the last two episodes in December...then again, I was going through a divorce.

I'm glad they're online.

[hoopsguy]

So was the episode this week considered "Season 4"? If so, did I miss the thread? If not, have people bailed on the show?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So was the episode this week considered "Season 4"? If so, did I miss the thread? If not, have people bailed on the show?

It is Volume 4, the 2nd half of Season 3.

I think a lot of folks have dropped here.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So was the episode this week considered "Season 4"? If so, did I miss the thread? If not, have people bailed on the show?

Not me. House -> Heroes has returned my favorite tv viewing night now that House is back on Mondays. I loved the episode, really enjoy the twist that was taken in this one and am interested to see how it develops. I didn't really post thoughts on Monday after the show because it seems the majority of people here tend to be much more critical of shows and I tend to just sit back and enjoy entertainment myself.

As long as I enjoy the show, I don't need 20 people here telling me how horrible it was right? (of course this is probably what led another show that I enjoyed alot in Journeyman to be cancelled quickly)