NFL 2020 Season Thread

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

I'm kind of torn on the whole Anthony Lynn firing. He seems like a good guy, but more importantly, Justin Herbert looked awesome this year and I do have concerns with changing coaches after such a great year for your first-year (appears to be) franchise quarterback. I would be worried about setting his development back.

On the flip side, the Chargers sure seemed to find ways to lose games that they should have won and there was some terrible mis-management. .

I think this is a pretty fair assessment... he was a terrible game day HC, and cost them multiple wins with his fuck ups but he seems to be well respected and definitely did a very good job with Herbert - not to mention the Tyrod Taylor situation which could very well have turned toxic with many other coaches in the league.

Regarding job desirability, I can't believe with how Herbert has looked and Bosa on the other side of the ball it's not #1.. you do need to find an offensive line but most of the other pieces are there to compete in year 2 and 3, whereas the rest of the Texans roster feels like a mess to me and BOB did a nice job of making sure they have less talent coming through. The only negative with the Chargers job is ownership and location, but if you can stand having 60k fans rooting against you at home until they admit LA was a terrible mistake, on the field I think it's a great job.

[BishopMVP]

Agreed Texans #1. If Lawrence declares I think Jacksonville is pretty attractive as a small market where you'll get some rope. Chargers similarly have a potential franchise QB & even though it's technically a very big market team I don't think you have a demanding fanbase. Jets are the bottom even if you're guaranteed a shot at Fields, too much about that market & organization working against you (plus the division looks pretty loaded for the next few years.)

[Carman Bulldog]

As great as Deshaun Watson is, I would put the Texans a lot closer to the bottom. They don't have a ton of talent, have very little cap room and no 1st or 2nd round pick this year. Not to mention the shadowy figure of Jack Easterby behind things (did anyone read that SI article on him?).

Both the Jets and the Jags have tons of cap space, high draft picks and extra draft capital the next few years (Jets - 1st x 2, 2nd x 1, 3rd x 2 and an extra 2022 1st ; Jags - 1st x 2, 2nd x 2, 3rd x 1). I just think it would be much easier to turn around those two teams than to do something with the Texans dumpster fire.

Like the Texans, Chargers seemingly also have a franchise QB, and one on a rookie contract at that. They have more cap space, a better roster and all of their draft picks. I think the big negatives were the aforementioned lack of a home stadium and poor ownership, as well as having to be in the same division as the Chiefs.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

As great as Deshaun Watson is, I would put the Texans a lot closer to the bottom. They don't have a ton of talent, have very little cap room and no 1st or 2nd round pick this year. Not to mention the shadowy figure of Jack Easterby behind things (did anyone read that SI article on him?).

Both the Jets and the Jags have tons of cap space, high draft picks and extra draft capital the next few years (Jets - 1st x 2, 2nd x 1, 3rd x 2 and an extra 2022 1st ; Jags - 1st x 2, 2nd x 2, 3rd x 1). I just think it would be much easier to turn around those two teams than to do something with the Texans dumpster fire.

Like the Texans, Chargers seemingly also have a franchise QB, and one on a rookie contract at that. They have more cap space, a better roster and all of their draft picks. I think the big negatives were the aforementioned lack of a home stadium and poor ownership, as well as having to be in the same division as the Chiefs.

That's a good argument. From that perspective, the Lions also have a relatively empty cupboard, outside of a 13th year Matt Stafford & only 5 draft picks with which to help fill those holes. They also just hired Chris Spielman in some kind of random oversight role & they already have a President in Rod Wood, which is yet another layer of oversight/interference that might not exist somewhere else.

[sabotai]

Giants Defensive Coordinator/Asst. Head Coach Patrick Graham signs an extension and will not consider head coaching jobs for 2021. The Jets had requested permission to interview him for HC.

BIG sigh of relief.

[miami_fan]

I stole this question from a podcast I listened to this morning. Based on what fans saw from the NFL this season, does the 2020 regular season prove that NFL teams don't need all the OTAs, training camps as previously constructed, and preseason games? I don't follow the NFL closely enough to have an opinion.

The question just fell in line with questions I have had about all the requirements in sports that the COVID crisis has shown may not be the case. Another example being having to schedule college football game 5-10 years in advance.

[AlexB]

Tackling was even worse than usual this year - OK, it’s been declining steadily anyway, but I thought it was terrible this year.

We saw a lot more Jet sweeps than usual, simple play to run, but is that just because it was treending that way anyway, or down to lack of off season practice and preseason? Were playbooks simpler overall?

And it seemed like there were way more injuries to me (I’ve not checked, this is just gut feel) which could definitely be attributed to the lack of preseason conditioning

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Tackling was even worse than usual this year - OK, it’s been declining steadily anyway, but I thought it was terrible this year.

We saw a lot more Jet sweeps than usual, simple play to run, but is that just because it was treending that way anyway, or down to lack of off season practice and preseason? Were playbooks simpler overall?

And it seemed like there were way more injuries to me (I’ve not checked, this is just gut feel) which could definitely be attributed to the lack of preseason conditioning

Yep, I felt the same watching the few games I did.

[Jstraub]

No fans in the stands had zero effect on me. In fact, I rather enjoyed not having to watch/listen to all the crazies in the crowd. I wouldn't be bothered if all future games had no fans in the stands, but obviously owners would.

I watched many games and I didn't perceive any noticeable decline in play or injuries. Tackling has been declining pre-pandemic. If anything, teams started this year as healthy as ever given no injuries from preseason games were endured.

I'd say the biggest thing I noticed was the enhanced impact of a veteran quarterback. Veteran quarterbacks, I believe, were especially valuable this year as they could guide their teams in an era of limited practice time. This crowd (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson, etc.) always plays well but it seemed this year their impact was magnified.

Overall I'm surprised 1) they got through the regular season and 2) the play was as good as it usually is.

[sabotai]

For the Giants, with a rookie starting LT and a veteran playing Center for the first time in his career, the lack of OTAs, training camp and pre-season really hurt the offensive line. The first few weeks, their blocking was atrocious, in both run blocking and pass pro, but after a few weeks you could see them making huge strides week to week.

If they had had a true offseason, I think most of those issues would have been fixed. I know you could say similar things about all the teams, but with a new (first time) HC, new OC, new DC, 2nd year QB and the changes on the offensive line, I feel the lack of a true offseason hurt the Giants disproportionally more than other teams.

Not that they would have been good enough otherwise to make a Super Bowl run, but I think they show that teams definitely do need OTAs, training camp and preseason.

On another point, I know scoring has been trending up over the last few decades (probably the entire life of the league), and I don't feel like doing the "data science" to see if 2020 falls within a certain percentage of the trend line, but scoring this season was the highest ever at 24.8 points per game per team.

2010: 22.0
2011: 22.2
2012: 22.8
2013: 23.4
2014: 22.6
2015: 22.8
2016: 22.8
2017: 21.7
2018: 23.3
2019: 22.8
2020: 24.8

[JPhillips]

Not that I think Watson will be traded, but if you were either GM would you make this trade:

To Jacksonville - D. Watson
To Houston - Draft pick 1.1

[bhlloy]

I seem to like Lawrence less than most on the Jags, and I still wouldn’t consider that deal from the Jacksonville end for a second.

[Swaggs]

Who wins the financial side of the deal? Jacksonville wouldn’t have to pay any bonuses, which is sort of a dual benefit in that they literally do not have to fork over the cash and the cap hit would be much less than any established high level QB.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Not that I think Watson will be traded, but if you were either GM would you make this trade:

To Jacksonville - D. Watson
To Houston - Draft pick 1.1

This is an interesting question because there's a part of me that insists you should always take the established player that has proven themself NFL caliber....but that's based on the flawed assumption that I'm getting DeShaun Watson exactly as he was at Houston. Has the complete transfer of an ostensibly high level QB from one franchise to another really proven to be that much less of a risk than drafting a rookie?

[albionmoonlight]

It’s not a slam dunk, but I make that trade if I am Jacksonville. If you draft Lawrence, any turns out to be as good as Watson, most people would consider that a good use of the first overall pick. So why not just grab Watson?

[Ksyrup]

The only reason you don't do that deal if you're Jacksonville is you have no insulation from criticism and sole ownership of having "ruined" Watson if he sucks, because you either didn't build a team around him or used him wrong, versus "Trevor Lawrence just wasn't an NFL QB even though everyone believed he was before the draft" if he's a bust.

[Ksyrup]

I don't know how credible it is, but there's a report that Dan Mullen is interviewing with the Jets soon.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Wouldn't touch that trade with a 10' pole.

[Carman Bulldog]

First overall quarterbacks the past 20 years...

Joe Burrow
Kyler Murray
Baker Mayfield
Jared Goff
Jameis Winston
Andrew Luck
Cam Newton
Sam Bradford
Matthew Stafford
JaMarcus Russell
Alex Smith
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
David Carr
Michael Vick

Is there anyone on that list whose career (or potential career) you wouldn't trade for Deshaun Watson? Having said that, one could argue that Lawrence's ceiling is above anyone on that list.

Talent wise, I think you make the deal in an instant. The old 'one in the hand, two in the bush' proverb.

BUT... the biggest thing may be the cost controlled contract years you get with Lawrence.

Right now, for the respective cap hits, you would be looking at something such as (numbers in millions)...

DW / TL
15.9 / 6.5
40.4 / 8.2
42.4 / 9.9
37.4 / 11.5
32.0 / 21.5

I based Lawrence's numbers on the cap hit for Burrow and the 5th year option based on the estimated 2021 transition tag.

So the question is, does Lawrence's potential plus other assets worth $30 million in years 2-4 offer greater value than Watson? And really, at the end of the day, does it afford you a greater chance at winning a Super Bowl?

[Kodos]

I think I'd take Eli Manning and his two Super Bowl wins.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I think I'd take Eli Manning and his two Super Bowl wins.

The promise of Super Bowls don't come with the player in the trade, only his statistical career productivity and potential for Super Bowls. Contrast this with the projected productivity of Watson moving forward.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I think I'd take Eli Manning and his two Super Bowl wins.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

The promise of Super Bowls don't come with the player in the trade, only his statistical career productivity and potential for Super Bowls. Contrast this with the projected productivity of Watson moving forward.

Still take Eli. He is top 10 in several statistical categories.

[thesloppy]

All of the homers for each of the teams that drafted those teams probably has a dozen WELL ACKSHUALLYs for why their dude was the obvious pick. As a Lions slappy, I'm no better, and while Matt Stafford doesn't necessarily look elite on paper, he will probably finish as a top 5 QB in most major statistics & despite heading into his 13th season, the argument is still completely open whether he could've/would've fared significantly better in literally any other environment.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

All of the homers for each of the teams that drafted those teams probably has a dozen WELL ACKSHUALLYs for why their dude was the obvious pick. As a Lions slappy, I'm no better, and while Matt Stafford doesn't necessarily look elite on paper, he will probably finish as a top 5 QB in most major statistics & the argument is still completely open whether he could've/would've fared significantly better in literally any other environment.

No, don't get me wrong. I completely agree with you there. I mean everyone probably hopes that their 1st overall quarterback becomes Peyton Manning or John Elway, but if you end up with career production at a level of Stafford or Manning, (or even Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, etc.) that pick is a win (assuming your team keeps and develops the player).

I think that Deshaun Watson has shown the ability in his first four seasons to equal or exceed the careers of anyone on that list. Personal opinion, but I think that Watson has a Hall of Fame ceiling through his four NFL seasons. Lawrence may also have the same ceiling but hasn't shown that in the pro ranks, and thus his floor is much lower.

[JPhillips]

Watson takes too many sacks, but wouldn't Jacksonville be thrilled if Lawrence completed 70% for almost 5000 yards and 33 TD with a YPA of 8.9, and then ran for 440 yards as well? Keep in mind that's after the Texans traded away his #1 receiver, too.

[kingfc22]

Indy coaching staff out thinking themselves again. Just dumb

[AlexB]

Way to kill any potential momentum shift

[bronconick]

Just a little 2nd and 33

[AlexB]

Bills trying their best to cock this up

[AlexB]

That’s a fumble!

[sabotai]

Yeah, looks like a fumble to me.

EDIT: Pascal should have just stayed on the ground.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Yeah, looks like a fumble to me.

EDIT: Pascal should have just stayed on the ground.

I hate to agree with this.

[AlexB]

I don’t see how they came to that conclusion

[NobodyHere]

Oh wow,I'm a Colts fan and I think it was a fumble.

[cartman]

The skate wasn't in the crease

[Carman Bulldog]

How was that not a fumble?!

[NobodyHere]

I wonder what the reasoning is

[bronconick]

If the Colts win this, the refs better have some alternate route planned

[kingfc22]

How did Indy lose 5 seconds if Buffalo called a timeout pre-snap?

[Carman Bulldog]

I think you have to put Jacoby Brissett in to throw that jump ball.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by AlexB

I don’t see how they came to that conclusion

It's like a Buffalo Wild Wings commercial.

[AlexB]

One of the joys of the late season games and playoffs here in the UK is having Jeff Reinebold on Sky Sports NFL coverage.

[Jas_lov]

How are the Seahawks so bad on offense?

[bronconick]

Tom Rinaldi as sideline reporter for FOX feels so wrong.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

How are the Seahawks so bad on offense?

It's odd how Wilson went from #letrusscook and all the talk about how he's never received a MVP vote to a mediocre qb over the past 8-9 games of the season.

Probably less odd when you look at who the OC is, but Russ has been borderline bad for long stretches this season.

[Atocep]

Horrible play call and just terrible all around there.

[AlexB]

Kudos to the D? They set the trap (Metcalfe not covered by Ramsey) and then made the play

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Kudos to the D? They set the trap (Metcalfe not covered by Ramsey) and then made the play

Excellent play by the D and Russ's throw being a hit behind Metcalf was the difference between a pick and a pick 6.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Tom Rinaldi as sideline reporter for FOX feels so wrong.

Is he just waiting for a blown ACL to really shine?