FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Just incredible firepower being used.

That's a diff clip than the one I saw earlier (not that it matters) but if the other one is legit, that clip there actually picks up after the initial shot(s). Single shot, heavier sounding, seems to initiate things. Possibly one burst of semi-auto fire prior to what's here

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

The cop should take it upon themselves to find a way to address every non violent situation on the surface the same way (politely)

I mentioned this privately earlier. Why is it acceptable for cops to swear so much? GET ON THE FUCKING GROUND this and I SWEAR TO GOD that...if any other public servant - or any employee who deals with the public, really - spoke like that at work they'd be canned, or at least reprimanded. But video after video it's obscenities.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by panerd

What a brilliant way to protest the police state and militarization of the police force. This shouldn't create any sort of blowback at all.

So very stupid, and absolutely not the way to try to get any point across.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I mentioned this privately earlier. Why is it acceptable for cops to swear so much? GET ON THE FUCKING GROUND this and I SWEAR TO GOD that...if any other public servant - or any employee who deals with the public, really - spoke like that at work they'd be canned, or at least reprimanded. But video after video it's obscenities.

Stress reaction, with a fairly sizable (afaik) military component where this is still a language component.

Also, the use of a well placed f-bomb can be a highly effective technique, especially if it's unexpected.

edit to add: You want compliance, or at least inactivity, shock has value in at least some situations.

[cuervo72]

Yeah, I almost mentioned the military-like aspect of it. And in a battlefield venue, have at it. I can attest to the well-placed f-bomb, too. Had a Shakespeare prof drop one on me and a classmate when we were whispering to each other during a lecture. Damned if that didn't shock us into shutting up.

Overuse though just strikes me as adding to the tension of the situation, which isn't always needed. And I don't condone swearing from citizens either, but I'd think a cop should learn how to shrug it off, like dealing with a kid's tantrum.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Yeah, I almost mentioned the military-like aspect of it. And in a battlefield venue, have at it. I can attest to the well-placed f-bomb, too. Had a Shakespeare prof drop one on me and a classmate when we were whispering to each other during a lecture. Damned if that didn't shock us into shutting up.

Overuse though just strikes me as adding to the tension of the situation, which isn't always needed. And I don't condone swearing from citizens either, but I'd think a cop should learn how to shrug it off, like dealing with a kid's tantrum.

honestly, I've heard every vocalization reaction possible I think. Years of scanner-hounding during my news days, it was interesting to hear different people react to different situations.

10-80 (code, at least in Georgia, for high speed pursuit) was the most enlightening. Probably 2/3rds of officers would report those in a voice that went up about three octaves in a few seconds. Others? You'd think they were calling in a lunch break.

I've heard profanity during a foot pursuit (on mic), I've heard it used for lunch breaks, while others tone never changes regardless. It's just personalities, and habits, best I can tell. Probably only a handful using it for specific impact.

You should hear me when a piece of equipment fails during / just before going on air though.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

honestly, I've heard every vocalization reaction possible I think. Years of scanner-hounding during my news days, it was interesting to hear different people react to different situations.

10-80 (code, at least in Georgia, for high speed pursuit) was the most enlightening. Probably 2/3rds of officers would report those in a voice that went up about three octaves in a few seconds. Others? You'd think they were calling in a lunch break.

I've heard profanity during a foot pursuit (on mic), I've heard it used for lunch breaks, while others tone never changes regardless. It's just personalities, and habits, best I can tell. Probably only a handful using it for specific impact.

You should hear me when a piece of equipment fails during / just before going on air though.

Heh. Both at that last image, and one of an overweight guy chasing someone on foot while huffing a string of expletives.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Heh. Both at that last image, and one of an overweight guy chasing someone on foot while huffing a string of expletives.

Best foot chase EVER ... veteran officer (first black officer on the county force there in fact), giving a detailed account -- in a slow, steady drawl -- of a naked suspect fleeing a warrant serve after being caught during an intimate moment with his girlfriend.

Suspect flees out the window, nude, and runs off ... down the nearby railroad tracks. Stumbles. Tumbles.

"We gon' need an ambulance ... he skint up something AWFUL"

[NobodyHere]

Supposedly they got the bastards in Dallas

[PilotMan]

So sad. The St Paul killing brought tears to my eyes today.

Now this.

What a mistake. So short sighted. There's no out in the long game played this way. None.

[mckerney]

There was someone who was shown as a suspect to the media by the Dallas PD that wasn't involved and thankfully it sounds like he's safe now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by mckerney

There was someone who was shown as a suspect to the media by the Dallas PD that wasn't involved and thankfully it sounds like he's safe now.

Thing is, that doesn't mean he was never a suspect. (under the circumstances, he seems to have been a rather glaringly obvious suspect). He seems to have taken a very wise route & turned himself in so it could be cleared up.

[SirFozzie]

Chief David Brown says they are “currently in negotiations” with a suspect in a downtown parking garage, although it’s not going well as there continues to be shots exchanged. They have a female in custody, along with two suspects that were apprehended after a traffic stop.

The suspect they are negotiating with has told them “The end is coming” and that he will “hurt and kill more of us” and that there are bombs in the parking garage and in downtown Dallas.


God, it sounds like someone is trying to touch off a race war

[kingfc22]

From that press conference it sounded like they suspect 4 individuals to be involved in this.

[RainMaker]

The crazy thing is this would seem to be something that would require a decent amount of planning. Scouting locations, getting weapons/ammo, knowing where the protest was going, etc.

This didn't seem like a spur of the moment spree shooting. These guys took out a bunch of trained officers in a major city. Makes me wonder if any will turn out to have some kind of military training.

[thesloppy]

Wouldn't be surprised if this ends up with twisted motivations similar to Mateen's...like these guys weren't necessarily all that tied to the protest/cause, so much as it gave them a convenient reason to shoot somebody/authority/cops. As if I have any clue.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This didn't seem like a spur of the moment spree shooting. These guys took out a bunch of trained officers in a major city. Makes me wonder if any will turn out to have some kind of military training.

They mentioned triangulating/triangulation, which would sure seem to point to some sort of training.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Makes me wonder if any will turn out to have some kind of military training.

Needless to say that was mentioned in my bat cave hours ago.

That semi-auto fire in particular, it's steady, regular, methodical. There's nothing to indicate it was rushed or even adrenalized.

That suggested someone with some sort of training, at least to my amateur ear.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Needless to say that was mentioned in my bat cave hours ago.

That semi-auto fire in particular, it's steady, regular, methodical. There's nothing to indicate it was rushed or even adrenalized.

That suggested someone with some sort of training, at least to my amateur ear.

I saw a few military people on Twitter mention the shooting sounded like someone who had been trained. Tap, tap, pause. I don't know what that means but they apparently feel it's not the work of an amateur.

[Groundhog]

With the amount of tension in the US right now, it seems like the perfect time for any madman with an agenda to do the social equivalent of lighting a forest fire.

[nol]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I saw a few military people on Twitter mention the shooting sounded like someone who had been trained. Tap, tap, pause. I don't know what that means but they apparently feel it's not the work of an amateur.

Basically means that it's more efficient to try for two body shots in quick succession than go for one head shot. Between that and the fact there don't seem to be many non-police injured by crossfire, pretty safe to say that these people are highly trained.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I saw a few military people on Twitter mention the shooting sounded like someone who had been trained. Tap, tap, pause. I don't know what that means but they apparently feel it's not the work of an amateur.

courtesy of Wiki

A double tap is a shooting technique where two shots are fired in rapid succession at the same target with the same sight picture (different from the controlled pair, where a second sight picture is acquired for the second shot).

edit: And center mass aiming versus head shot is a matter of effectiveness & realistic shooting versus made-for-TV

The surface area of that target is larger than the exposed surface area of an arm, leg, or even head. That means there’s more space to fit a bullet inside. Firing for center mass allows for inaccuracy. If the shooter’s hand is shaking or the shooter is firing from an unsupported position, straying from the medial line by up to 3 inches on either side will still result in a critical impact.

If you took that same line and traced it down the middle of an arm or leg, it’s possible that a shot that is off from the center by up to three inches will be a complete miss.

[RainMaker]

Any chance this is a lone gunman? Videos seem to show someone shooting on the ground floor. I know they have some other suspects in custody but that could just be suspicous people they detained.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Best foot chase EVER ... veteran officer (first black officer on the county force there in fact), giving a detailed account -- in a slow, steady drawl -- of a naked suspect fleeing a warrant serve after being caught during an intimate moment with his girlfriend.

Suspect flees out the window, nude, and runs off ... down the nearby railroad tracks. Stumbles. Tumbles.

"We gon' need an ambulance ... he skint up something AWFUL"

Oh MAN, I can hear that voice right now. Thanks for the well-crafted word picture.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Oh MAN, I can hear that voice right now. Thanks for the well-crafted word picture.

{nods} The one thing I can't really do justice to is the higher pitched "oooch" when he saw him fall.

Lewis was a trip, and a joy to be around. Had seen-it-all eyes, was plain at dirt and dignified as royalty all at once, and you knew that nobody was getting the better of him in the long run. Just a great deputy sheriff in all respects.

[Ben E Lou]

Just watched the video. Wow. Yeah, I'd be surprised if that was just one shooter, and pretty much shocked if it was all planned in just the last 24ish hours.

[Edward64]

Sad day.

Hope this will help push through additional gun control laws/enforcement.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Sad day.

Hope this will help push through additional gun control laws/enforcement.

Sad couple of days. And I doubt it will change anything except increase the number of deaths to come.

[Ben E Lou]

he skint up something AWFUL

Upon further review, shouldn't that be spelled "sump'm"???

[Ben E Lou]

Particularly sad note about the Dallas situation is that, by all accounts, that's a PD that has done a remarkable job in the recent past of focusing on de-escalation, and the results have been outstanding:

What Dallas’s historically low murder rate can teach us about policing - The Washington Post

I'm also seeing multiple reports that things were very relaxed prior to the gunfire--even that protesters and police were smiling and taking selfies together. I guess this would lend further credence to the speculation that the shooters were an entirely different element.

[PilotMan]

I guess this would lend further credence to the speculation that the shooters were an entirely different element.

Just from what I've read and the way this is laid out I'd say that you're on to something here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Upon further review, shouldn't that be spelled "sump'm"???

probably with an 'n ending. He talked real low & slow as a rule, so it could be a coin toss sometimes.

He was (and I may have told this story before) actually one of two "first black officer in jurisdiction X" guys I knew. People might think, okay, "Jackie Robinson type guys probably" but they were very different personalities.

This guy, he was just cucumber cool. Nothing bothered him outwardly.


The other one, he was quiet & cool ... until he wasn't. He kept - no shit, cause I saw it - an Uzi in his trunk. Didn't come out unless he REALLY needed it, but if it came out everybody cooled out & followed instructions 'cause nobody in 2-3 counties had the slightest doubt he'd use it & police up his brass later. Single-handledly stopped a riot, saved a half-witted white cop, and prevented a lot of property damage & injuries with that thing one night. Well with that a phrase along the lines of "ya'll got 10 seconds to clear this parking lot"

Always struck me interesting how different the two guys were despite similar situations.

[Logan]

Chief Brown giving an update now. Suspect was killed through the police's bomb detonation efforts, not by suicide.

Also gave some details about their negotiations with him. He was upset about BLM and wanted white officers shot/killed.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Logan

Suspect was killed through the police's bomb detonation efforts, not by suicide.

Meaning that there really was at least one bomb and they detonated it and it killed him?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Meaning that there really was at least one bomb and they detonated it and it killed him?

That's what CNN is saying, he was killed by the bomb when the police detonated it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

"We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was. Other options would have exposed our officers to grave danger. The suspect is deceased as a result of detonating the bomb," Brown told reporters.

[Easy Mac]

So did they put a bomb on the robot, or use the robot to blow up the bomb near the person?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

So did they put a bomb on the robot, or use the robot to blow up the bomb near the person?

Unless technology has improved recently, a small charge is set off on the robot which triggers the other bomb.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

So did they put a bomb on the robot, or use the robot to blow up the bomb near the person?

The former.

Dallas police used a robot to deliver bomb that killed shooting suspect - The Washington Post

[Groundhog]

Any other instances of police bombing a suspect?

[Kodos]

That's pretty cool. Why risk more lives if he won't surrender?

[PilotMan]

From what the police said I would wager money that this guy, that said he acted alone, but the police say they have other suspects, is ex military.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

On another note, am I the only one surprised Trump hasn't tweeted something mind-numbingly stupid about one or both of these shootings yet???

Ok, now you can color me 100% shocked:

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Ok, now you can color me 100% shocked:

I feel like Kanye will drop a stupid bomb sometime in the next day or so.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Any other instances of police bombing a suspect?

Can't say that I recall ever hearing about it in the U.S.

[PilotMan]

Clearly Trump didn't write that. It's not written in his "voice."

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Clearly Trump didn't write that. It's not written in his "voice."

Oh, absolutely not. But I expected him to have tweeted something either mind-numbingly idiotic or incredibly offensive (or both!) well before now. He hasn't exactly shown a penchant to wait for his people to suggest reasonable responses to thing...

[murrayyyyy]

Figured it would have been posted here already but info on the guy. Ex-military.

Micah X. Johnson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

[Ben E Lou]

Oh! I remember that! Was a big deal for current events for quiz bowl stuff in high school.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Clearly Trump didn't write that. It's not written in his "voice."

Not a single exclamation point.