Pet Insurance - Yay or Nay?

[DaddyTorgo]

My folks have 2 dogs, a 13 year old Terrier and a 2 year old Terrier.

Thinking pet insurance might be a nice Christmas present. Expensive (due to the 13 year old), but nice, particularly because I'm worried about them and their willingness to pay for problems he might have as he gets older.

Any thoughts on whether or not it's a huge ripoff?

[Neuqua]

I haven't decided whether or not it was a good idea to get it for my 1 year old dog either.

[Logan]

From what I can gather in admittedly little research (my wife and I just adopted a couple kittens), it's basically what you would think...worth it for the peace of mind and in case something goes very wrong, but doesn't make much sense financially otherwise. I was worried about needing to take them to the vet here in NYC where it's expensive, but we have an ASPCA shelter nearby where visits and treatments are lower cost. Plus, we probably won't be here for too much longer.

[albionmoonlight]

I have heard anecdotially (sp?) that, because it is not health insurance or car insurance, it is not highly regulated. Which means that it can be a rip off in that they can do things like not keep enough money on hand and go bankrupt. Or, if the pet gets a chronic condition, they can refuse to renew the policy the next year, leaving you stuck with paying the bills for the long term care (which is what you thought you were getting insurance to avoid).

Basically, I would, to the extent possible, research the company itself to make sure that it has a good reputation before you give them any premiums. You don't have the safety net of minimum regulatory standards like you might in a more heavily regulated insurance market.

[molson]

I've never found a quote that made sense. Just looked again at the one my vet recommended, Pets Best, $32/month for my 3-year old mutt, $100 deductible, 90% reimbursement level, $5,000 max annual coverage, $100,000 lifetime. (I'd imagine it's a lot more expensive in other parts of the country). And that's just going to cover accidents and illnesses, not regular care. It just doesn't add up to me. Dogs just don't have the upper limit of potential medical expenses that people do, so the risk just isn't there to shell out $30/month. The odds are against getting hit with even a $5,000 expense, and if that happened, I wouldn't even really be saving all that much after paying $32/month for many years. And while I'd shell out any amount to get my dog treated after an accident from which he could recover, I'm not going to have him go through any extended late-stage cancer treatment or anything.

If I could do, I would insure him just against getting some chronic disease for which he needed expensive drugs, but I'm not sure these insurance contracts cover that.

[lungs]

After a $3000 bill when my dog got attacked by a coyote, I told him he won't be going to the vet ever again. That's my insurance policy.

Dealing with large animal veterinarians on a daily basis really shows how much of a ripoff small animal vets are. When emotions become involved, you can mark things up 100X!

[BYU 14]

I have a comprehensive plan through Banfield for my three Dogs, (11 year old Boxer and Two 5 year old Min Pins)

Costs a total of just over 80 dollars a month for all of them, so about 975 a year. It covers all exams, diagnostic tests, immunizations, teeth cleaning and covered their spay/neutering.

I know vet cost are marked up, but basically at two routine comprehensive exams a year and a visit or two for other reasons we have save over 3000.00 a year minimum, add another 600-900 a year when you get the teeth cleaned as they put them under. In short it is plenty worth it to me, as we have saved over 15,000 dollars over the life of the policies. We also have the peace of mind that the dogs are all healthy and anything that does come up we catch quickly.

Where they get you though is on non-covered meds, which they really mark up. As a general tip here, I discovered you can get a lot of the meds pets need from a regular pharmacy at 80-90% cheaper. Example, a compound they would have charged over 90 for, the pharmacist at Walgreens whipped up for 8 bucks. So I would always recommend checking with your pharmacy to see if they can provide the script.

[Kodos]

I wish the government would step in. Everybody could support O-Llama-care!

[tarcone]

Its a pet. If my dog or cat needs that much surgery or care, time to put them down. End the suffering. The life span isnt worth the cost, IMO.
May sound harsh, and I love my dog and cat. But not so much as to spend a bunch of money on them. My kids come first, as do My wofe and myself.

Im curious about what you do with a dead dog. Ive never owned a pet that died. Do you put them in a trash bag and throw them in the trash can? Or is that against thelaw? What are you supposed to do?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Its a pet. If my dog or cat needs that much surgery or care, time to put them down. End the suffering. The life span isnt worth the cost, IMO.
May sound harsh, and I love my dog and cat. But not so much as to spend a bunch of money on them. My kids come first, as do My wofe and myself.

Im curious about what you do with a dead dog. Ive never owned a pet that died. Do you put them in a trash bag and throw them in the trash can? Or is that against thelaw? What are you supposed to do?

And they may suffer more with all the medical treatments and surgeries than they would without it...for what? To extend their life for a little more time?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by lungs

After a $3000 bill when my dog got attacked by a coyote, I told him he won't be going to the vet ever again. That's my insurance policy.

Dealing with large animal veterinarians on a daily basis really shows how much of a ripoff small animal vets are. When emotions become involved, you can mark things up 100X!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ng-owners.html

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Its a pet. If my dog or cat needs that much surgery or care, time to put them down. End the suffering. The life span isnt worth the cost, IMO.
May sound harsh, and I love my dog and cat. But not so much as to spend a bunch of money on them. My kids come first, as do My wofe and myself.

Im curious about what you do with a dead dog. Ive never owned a pet that died. Do you put them in a trash bag and throw them in the trash can? Or is that against thelaw? What are you supposed to do?

bury them with the love they gave you? I hope you never have a pet...

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ng-owners.html

im sure you advocate humane deaths for people? Even if they dont want them?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

bury them with the love they gave you? I hope you never have a pet...

I have dog and a cat. And I love them to death. My dog knows more about me then my wife. But it is a dog. And I dont want her to suffer. They dont understand that they cant walk anymore. They just get depressed. Why let them suffer? Their lifespan is so small. May as well celebrate their life and thank them for their love.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

im sure you advocate humane deaths for people? Even if they dont want them?

You cant seriously compare animals to humans, can you?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

And they may suffer more with all the medical treatments and surgeries than they would without it...for what? To extend their life for a little more time?

Depends on what the ailment is. A broken leg can be fixed up, but it's cheaper to put the dog down. There's conditions that medications can manage. Not every vet treatment involves end-of-life care. In fact, the great majority of it doesn't. Not a lot of people are putting their animals through years of painful cancer treatment, or spending thousands of dollars on 15-year old dogs. I'd imagine most big vet bills are going to be based on accidents and ailments involving otherwise healthy, younger dogs that can be treated.

With the amount of adoptable dogs out there, I can't really have negative feelings about people who would put down their dogs rather than treat them for something fixable, because they at least had a shot at a life that so many other never will. But it does make me realize how lucky my dog is.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by tarcone

You cant seriously compare animals to humans, can you?

no, not at all. Animals dont hate. Animals dont torture. Animals dont lie. Animals act only on their instincts. I value my cats more than I do 99% of humanity.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

no, not at all. Animals dont hate. Animals dont torture. Animals dont lie. Animals act only on their instincts. I value my cats more than I do 99% of humanity.

I agree. But if their quality of life is decreased dramatically, isnt it selfish to keep them alive?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

bury them with the love they gave you? I hope you never have a pet...

I bet all wild animals wish you would take them captive...you humane devil you!

[BYU 14]

I want to reiterate the purpose of me having pet insurance to insure they have a long, healthy and happy life. There are different kinds and mine is geared towards things that keep them healthy. Vaccinations, teeth cleaning, etc.

Do those of you without pet insurance not get your pets vaccinated, or have their teeth cleaned? (which can help prevent a variety of things)

I would think if you have an emotional/financial investment in a pet you would take care of it and just getting a wellness plan saves thousands. I will admit it is a little different for us since our kids are grown too and we don't have costs related there that might make me rethink pet insurance.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Do those of you without pet insurance not get your pets vaccinated, or have their teeth cleaned? (which can help prevent a variety of things)

My dog gets vaccines, heartworm pills, an annual check-up, and a bacteria test since he had giardia once. I haven't done the vet teeth cleaning yet, but a quick google search says that's only in the low 3 figures (and they will get it out of the way if they put your dog out for any other kind of treatment). All of that is together is way cheaper than monthly insurance. The only way I can see I'd save money is if I had a $3,000+ kind of bill at some point over his life, which is possible, but unlikely. $400 or $500/year for insurance (with a low-end plan) for years to protect against an unlikely $3,000 bill doesn't seem to add up. I'll pay the $3,000 if need be, so it's not like his life is at stake over that decision, but in that case, if it happened in year 6 or so, I'd just be getting back the money I put in.

[tarcone]

Yeah, we pay $70 a year on shots and other stuff. Which I could pass up considering I paid $0 one year for the rabies shot at the local feed store and administered myself.
But we get her shaved twice a year, and they require a shot record.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by molson

My dog gets vaccines, heartworm pills, an annual check-up, and a bacteria test since he had giardia once. I haven't done the vet teeth cleaning yet, but a quick google search says that's only in the low 3 figures (and they will get it out of the way if they put your dog out for any other kind of treatment). All of that is together is way cheaper than monthly insurance. The only way I can see I'd save money is if I had a $3,000+ kind of bill at some point over his life, which is possible, but unlikely. $400 or $500/year for insurance (with a low-end plan) for years to protect against an unlikely $3,000 bill doesn't seem to add up. I'll pay the $3,000 if need be, so it's not like his life is at stake over that decision, but in that case, if it happened in year 6 or so, I'd just be getting back the money I put in.

Understood and as I mentioned in my post, I am pretty sure a lot of my costs are marked up since I have a wellness plan. They do a very comprehensive exam each time as well, which tests for pretty much everything, so that would add some more to what my cost would have been.

Guess just personal preference in the end. I don't mind the monthly premiums knowing that I would spend much more getting the same done without insurance, and TBH I am much more attached to my pets with the kids grown, than I ever was when they were little, so they have kind of filled that void I suppose.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Yeah, we pay $70 a year on shots and other stuff. Which I could pass up considering I paid $0 one year for the rabies shot at the local feed store and administered myself.
But we get her shaved twice a year, and they require a shot record.

Where do you go to get that so cheap?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Its a pet. If my dog or cat needs that much surgery or care, time to put them down. End the suffering. The life span isnt worth the cost, IMO.

May sound harsh, and I love my dog and cat. But not so much as to spend a bunch of money on them. My kids come first, as do My wife and myself.

Depends on what "that much" is really. Many people are going to get *really* sensitive about this because there are those who essentially see their pets as disposable and who will not do anything for them at all and who will give them up over the most minor inconvenience. I have a very serious problem with those people.

You're making an assumption with suffering though, as there are many things that can happen with an animal that can be expensive but can fix or manage issues so there is really no debate about how much the animal is hurting, the *only* debate is "how much money am I willing to spend before I put this animal down". And that's where you are going to get some very emotional reactions from some people.

So here's a story:

I have a 12 year old cat that I love very much. Earlier this summer I took him to an emergency vet over a couple issues that seemed to all happen at once. I found out that he has a bone spur near his tail that makes it hurt when he jumps down from the top of the couch or windowsil, and he has a mild asthma and was having scary sounding coughing fits, and he happened to have a stomach bug or something at the same time so I saw lots of stuff at once and freaked out.

He also needed a couple teeth pulled, I'd never taken cats to the vets for dental work b/c my parents never did, I didn't know it was even a thing. I feel pretty awful about that now! But, prednisone to manage the asthma, something called Dasuquin for the pain from the bone spur, and surgery to take a couple teeth out and he's fine, hopefully he'll be one of those cats that live to 20.

Between the emergency vet and doing the tooth stuff at the regular vet, I spent about $1500. I didn't think twice about spending that. Would you have put your cat down there?

I *think* if you say yes there, I feel you probably shouldn't own pets. If you'd put him down over $500, I'd definitely say you shouldn't own pets. I honestly don't know where my limit is as far as spending money, but $1500 and knowing we weren't talking about any sort of "managing suffering" here, but that he can be pretty darn happy for however much longer he is around, that was a no brainer to me.

I spent $900 trying to save a cat at an emergency vet in 2002. He was 5 years old and had a heart problem the vet had never detected before. He died at the vet. I told my wife about that at some point when we were married, and she made a comment that no animal was worth that and she would have just left it there and walked away. We had two cats at the time and she said she would have left either one there if it happened to them. To this day that makes me angrier than anything else that has ever happened in my life. Knowing she meant that, and meant that about my cat who was living with us, and meant that about the other cat who was her son's... that makes me angrier than the ID theft stuff that took me 5+ years to completely resolve, angrier than anything. I'm not saying that's you, but if it is, don't get a pet. EVER.

Im curious about what you do with a dead dog. Ive never owned a pet that died. Do you put them in a trash bag and throw them in the trash can? Or is that against thelaw? What are you supposed to do?

We have 4 or 5 animals from the last 30 years buried in a corner of our back yard at our house. The only animal that I had die while I was living in apartments the vet hospital kept.



Sorry for the length there. That ended up going a lot longer than intended.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I have a comprehensive plan through Banfield for my three Dogs, (11 year old Boxer and Two 5 year old Min Pins)

My sister and mom have insurance through banfield for dogs they've had with some health issues. In both cases they didn't have insurance until the dogs were older/problems were found, and at that point the vet said "you can get this plan, it will cover you for the thing we just found right now, and then just pay the monthly fee and future stuff is covered too." At the point that something with a bit more cost was found,t hey both took that deal and have paid for insurance since then. I don't know if their vets were doing something under the table to allow that to happen, or how much stuff was covered in these circumstances, but it worked out for both of them very well. I wish I had more specifics on the cost and what exactly they got covered at what rates.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by molson

Depends on what the ailment is. A broken leg can be fixed up, but it's cheaper to put the dog down. There's conditions that medications can manage. Not every vet treatment involves end-of-life care. In fact, the great majority of it doesn't. Not a lot of people are putting their animals through years of painful cancer treatment, or spending thousands of dollars on 15-year old dogs. I'd imagine most big vet bills are going to be based on accidents and ailments involving otherwise healthy, younger dogs that can be treated.

With the amount of adoptable dogs out there, I can't really have negative feelings about people who would put down their dogs rather than treat them for something fixable, because they at least had a shot at a life that so many other never will. But it does make me realize how lucky my dog is.

I think the focus would be on older pets and end-of-life care, of course. And I think broken legs are certainly things you would fix, as you noted.

Originally Posted by claphamsa

im sure you advocate humane deaths for people? Even if they dont want them?

I suppose you advocate prolonged suffering with risky surgeries and treatments for end-of-life animals and people for your own self-interest?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by tarcone

You cant seriously compare animals to humans, can you?

Most people do. And the market for pet insurance is born!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

no, not at all. Animals dont hate. Animals dont torture. Animals dont lie. Animals act only on their instincts. I value my cats more than I do 99% of humanity.

This

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Where do you go to get that so cheap?

That was $10 for the rabies shot.

I go to the local vet. Weighs my dog, checks her teeth. Looks at her, does the basic stuff. Shots.
Actuallly it might cost $56. And if I needed severe treatment, because it is a family friend, I think he would treat us right.

[Flasch186]

My dogs were bit by a water moccassin many years ago and it was awful. Evry day the pricing skyrocketed as they stayed in the hospital for 4 days. Every vial of anti-venin was like 800$ so finally I get the 4 bills and they total around $10K. Needless to say I looked at them and said that next time we're going to have to see if they can tough it out. Fast Forward 6 months and another water moccassin attack. Welp, we're off to the G-D hospital to get them fixed up, anti-venin etc and this time it was only about 4500. Easier to say "tough it out" when you're on your way home with them on the men d then when you're actually in the midst of it. Though..... now that i have a kid and one on the way I have put their place in a better perspective in life and hope I can make it past 1 second when deciding to have them tough it out....perhaps 5 seconds, maybe 10 but Im sure Ill buckle.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - if I lived in an area of poisonous snakes like you Flasch I think I'd have insurance for sure.

[Izulde]

I haven't seen a pet insurance plan that's worth it TBH. Most of them seem like a waste of money. The type of plan you're talking about might be different though, BYU.

[Fidatelo]

Rule of thumb: only buy insurance that covers costs for things that:
A) You could not make do without; and
B) You absolutely could not afford to pay if it should arise.

You have to understand that insurance is designed to make insurance companies money, so on average the less insurance you buy, the better off you are. Really rich people often don't even insure their homes because they can afford to deal with the very low odds of a major catastrophe.

So life, house, and car/liability are musts for most people. After that I would generally argue against insuring anything.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I haven't seen a pet insurance plan that's worth it TBH. Most of them seem like a waste of money. The type of plan you're talking about might be different though, BYU.

We have been happy with it, the key is to utilize the benefits, otherwise it would definitely not be worth it.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I wish the government would step in. Everybody could support O-Llama-care!

I LOL'd

SI

[Desnudo]

I suppose it depends on their financial situation. If they wouldn't be able to afford, or want to spend money on, certain common procedures that might occur then it might be a good idea.