The Last Dance Documentary

[miami_fan]

I am thinking this is going to need its own thread.

So Scottie was one of those “Players of Today” back then huh?

[miami_fan]

Also the idea of Zion going back to Duke to rehabbed and not sitting on the bench during Pelican games gets him crushed for his lack of commitment to being a professional in 2020.

[miami_fan]

Is it possible that Dennis Rodman could fit into today’s game off the court but not on the court?

[JPhillips]

Watching the first two episodes I was struck by the volume of mid-range jumpers. What would the Bulls play style look like in 2020?

[stevew]

I feel like Jordan would have just shot a lot more 3s and they’d still win a ton of titles.

[tarcone]

Fantastic series so far. Im loving it.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

I feel like Jordan would have just shot a lot more 3s and they’d still win a ton of titles.

For the later years, I agree.

I would plead for the repeal of the three point shot if they turned the early years Mike into a person who took 40% of his shot from the three point line.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by stevew

I feel like Jordan would have just shot a lot more 3s and they’d still win a ton of titles.

I read an article on it (athletic maybe?) that said the same. The thing is that superstar players are taking roughly the same amount of mid-range jumpers as they always have. It's the role players that don't shoot them anymore.

So Jordan's game would have been less long 2's in exchange for more 3's and his free throw percentage suggests he would have probably made ~35% or so of those threes.

Bulls style would have changed, but they'd still be a great team.

[stevew]

I do think they would have had to find a stretch big. Like you could prob play Rodman at center but they’d need someone at the 4.

Also they would have gotten ring chasers every year. Bison Dele was one thing but getting guys like Jeff Green type(7th man) for free every match would have helped.

[miami_fan]

Now, Mike saying that Scott Burrell needed to commit to one woman is a bit rich.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by stevew

I do think they would have had to find a stretch big. Like you could prob play Rodman at center but they’d need someone at the 4.

Also they would have gotten ring chasers every year. Bison Dele was one thing but getting guys like Jeff Green type(7th man) for free every match would have helped.

Wouldn't Pippen be the prototypical stretch 4/point forward? Not a great 3 point shooter, but in today's era he'd probably have worked on his shooting a bit more. You can argue that both Pippen and Kukoc are stretch 4's in today's game.

Definitely would get (and need) more depth in 2020. The 8th guy off the bench in terms of minutes was Randy Brown.

[jbergey22]

Kukoc yes.

Pippen, nah... Way to valuable with the ball in his hands to be setting up behind the arc.

A Sam Perkins type would have excelled in todays NBA or on that team in todays era.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Is it possible that Dennis Rodman could fit into today’s game off the court but not on the court?

His role wouldnt be much different than Draymond Green has for the Warriors. Not the passing ability but....the others things are pretty much the same.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Wouldn't Pippen be the prototypical stretch 4/point forward? Not a great 3 point shooter, but in today's era he'd probably have worked on his shooting a bit more. You can argue that both Pippen and Kukoc are stretch 4's in today's game.

Definitely would get (and need) more depth in 2020. The 8th guy off the bench in terms of minutes was Randy Brown.

I had considered both options. But Pippen is still the standard for 3s not named LeBron I think.


Anyways can we talk about how Krause was probably right to break up this team. Look at these guys stats after this. Rodman played like 40 more games. Pippen wasn’t that great in his final 5 years. Kukoc had 1-2 more good seasons. I doubt they repeat in 99

[bhlloy]

On the other hand, they stunk for 3+ years, didn't really get anything good out of it (Brand and Chandler both played their best basketball after being traded away) didn't have a winning record until 2004/05 and didn't make a run in the playoffs until 2010/11.

If you blow it up and don't approach relevancy for another 10-12 years, is it really worth it? Might as well have chased another ring IMO, even while acknowledging they might not have been the favorite.

[illinifan999]

Can you imagine Lebron against the Pistons in the late 80's?

[stevew]

True. Arrest and Brand are really nice building blocks in 99 but that 2000 draft being an all time worst really hurts. Arrest was on about 8 teams for a reason. The double down turning Brand into Chandler really hurt. Curry was a turd.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Can you imagine Lebron against the Pistons in the late 80's?

“I’m taking my talents to the Motor City “

[miami_fan]

Unpopular opinion: I kinda wish there was a bit of the Bad Boys defense style in today's NBA. Nothing like Rodman pushing Pippen as he landed 10 feet out of bounds, but it should be a bit painful to go to the basket, to set or run through picks. I am just looking for a bit more physicality of that variety.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Unpopular opinion: I kinda wish there was a bit of the Bad Boys defense style in today's NBA. Nothing like Rodman pushing Pippen as he landed 10 feet out of bounds, but it should be a bit painful to go to the basket, to set or run through picks. I am just looking for a bit more physicality of that variety.

It's weird. Like so many, I remember the Bad Boys Pistons fondly and wish we could go back to some version of it.

But when the Knicks tried the same thing in the mid 90s, I found it thuggish, slow, and boring basketball. And I was happy for the reforms to try and get rid of it.

Not sure what the difference was.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It's weird. Like so many, I remember the Bad Boys Pistons fondly and wish we could go back to some version of it.

But when the Knicks tried the same thing in the mid 90s, I found it thuggish, slow, and boring basketball. And I was happy for the reforms to try and get rid of it.

Not sure what the difference was.

I would have to go back and look but my memory of the Pistons was that they were strong defensively but they were not offensively challenged. It felt like they were still going up and down the court and were not adverse to scoring. The Knicks felt like they could not score and knew that so they would not even try.

A quick comparison between 88-89 Pistons who won the title and the 93-94 Knicks who lost to the Rockets.

Pistons

PTS/G: 106.6 (16th of 25) Opp PTS/G: 100.8 (2nd of 25)

SRS: 6.24 (4th of 25) Pace: 95.5 (25th of 25)

Off Rtg: 110.8 (7th of 25) Def Rtg: 104.7 (3rd of 25)

Knicks

PTS/G: 98.5 (21st of 27) Opp PTS/G: 91.5 (1st of 27)

SRS: 6.48 (2nd of 27) Pace: 92.8 (24th of 27)

Off Rtg: 105.7 (16th of 27) Def Rtg: 98.2 (1st of 27)

[JPhillips]

Why was there so much wood paneling in NBA locker rooms in the late 80s and early 90s?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I would have to go back and look but my memory of the Pistons was that they were strong defensively but they were not offensively challenged. It felt like they were still going up and down the court and were not adverse to scoring. The Knicks felt like they could not score and knew that so they would not even try.

A quick comparison between 88-89 Pistons who won the title and the 93-94 Knicks who lost to the Rockets.

Pistons

PTS/G: 106.6 (16th of 25) Opp PTS/G: 100.8 (2nd of 25)

SRS: 6.24 (4th of 25) Pace: 95.5 (25th of 25)

Off Rtg: 110.8 (7th of 25) Def Rtg: 104.7 (3rd of 25)

Knicks

PTS/G: 98.5 (21st of 27) Opp PTS/G: 91.5 (1st of 27)

SRS: 6.48 (2nd of 27) Pace: 92.8 (24th of 27)

Off Rtg: 105.7 (16th of 27) Def Rtg: 98.2 (1st of 27)

Agree! The Pistons are treated as "thugs" but in reality they were a very good offensive team. Joe Dumars was very underrated. Vinny Johnson was todays version of Jamal Crawford/Lou Williams. The frontcourt was tremendously deep with Rodman, Sally, Laimbeer, Aguirre/Dantley, & Rick Mahorn(before he was drafted in the expansion draft) And of course their leader was Isiah. I mean I hated them but it was hard not to respect how good they were as a unit.

[stevew]

I wish they played 6 intra division games now. They could definitely streamline the schedule a ton. Maybe west plays east at home or on the road but not both.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Maybe west plays east at home or on the road but not both.

Too hard on the bottom line most likely. Telling Atlanta that they lose a visit from, say, the Lakers ... but they get another visit from, say, the Wizards isn't going over very well most likely.

[stevew]

Yeah. But they split revenue. Watching the Last Dance last night reminded me of how many random Hawks games I watched in the 80s. Thanks Ted

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Can you imagine Lebron against the Pistons in the late 80's?

Lebron weighs more than most of those guys and has the muscle to boot. It might be tougher in a sense but I think if anyone was built to withstand that, it'd be him.

Guys like Curry would be another story.

[stevew]

Mr Swackhammer is obv inspired by Jerry Krause, right?

[miami_fan]

So Mom and Dad is the reason for the Air Jordan brand.

[miami_fan]

I have never understood the phenomenon of hangIng out at a celebrity’s hotel waiting for an autograph.

[stevew]

These 90s suits are utter ridiculous. Jordan has at least 12-18” too much fabric

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

These 90s suits are utter ridiculous. Jordan has at least 12-18” too much fabric

I still have kept one of these types of suits (8 buttons) in the back of my closet somewhere.

[tarcone]

Michael went through some shit. This shows the intense pressure he went through daily. A lesser man would have broken several times over.

I read The Jordan Rules last year. Great book. It only made me appreciate what Jordan was, a winner.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by stevew

These 90s suits are utter ridiculous. Jordan has at least 12-18” too much fabric

I always laugh when someone tries to say the 2000s were basically the continuation of the 1990s, as to ask why the 70s and 80s were distinct decades but the 90s and 00s don't seem to be (it's because those folks got old and all the 'kids stuff' looked the same to them). The looseness of clothing in the 90s was insane. You can see it in Friends as well. Sweaters looked like they were swallowing up people.

[JPhillips]

I do a design exercise with the play Closer, set in the nineties. The students always point out that nobody's clothes fit.

[stevew]

Oh yeah spoiler alert Jordan still wears ridiculous jeans in public these days.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by stevew

These 90s suits are utter ridiculous. Jordan has at least 12-18” too much fabric

That was the first thing my wife pointed out in the Scottie Pippen episode: "That suit is HUGE on him! What is he doing?"

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Isiddiqui

The looseness of clothing in the 90s was insane. You can see it in Friends as well. Sweaters looked like they were swallowing up people.

Maybe our clothes are just way too tight and the 90s had it right. .

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Maybe our clothes are just way too tight and the 90s had it right. .

If you want to look like you are wearing a tent, I guess :P.

I think our currently more fitted clothing is by far a better way to go.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Michael went through some shit. This shows the intense pressure he went through daily. A lesser man would have broken several times over.

I read The Jordan Rules last year. Great book. It only made me appreciate what Jordan was, a winner.

I was thinking about this while watching Sunday night. I couldn't imagine getting that much attention for as long as he did.

[Fidatelo]

I love baggy clothes and miss the 90's very much.

[whomario]

I love how you can just relate to some of the stuff if you played organised sports. Like Jordan's indignant response to getting caught up in "Dennis getting in shape drill". Everybody whoever had a hung-over or habitually late teammate get blasted for this and then the whole team had to do extra drills knows about this

[albionmoonlight]

Today is the anniversary of "The Shot" over Craig Ehlo.

As many times as I have seen that replay, it still looks fake to me. He just seems to stay in the air longer than an object subject to the normal laws of gravity should stay in the air. I'm sure it's all camera angles, etc.. I don't care. I will always believe that there is just a touch of magic in that shot.

It is also, IMO, the "perfect" sports highlight. Most famous player in the world, in a big moment at the end of a game, and you see him celebrate and his opponent collapse at the end.

[Kodos]

I can only imagine what a raging asshole I'd be if I was swarmed every time I left my room like MJ was.

[stevew]

wondering who they were going to snub to put IT on the dream team. There was always going to be one college guy. Sure you could say Magic but other than that?

[JPhillips]

I kept saying, and Christian Leattner, every time they said a team comprised of NBA greats.

[tarcone]

If you havent seen the documentary about that game you should.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Today is the anniversary of "The Shot" over Craig Ehlo.

As many times as I have seen that replay, it still looks fake to me. He just seems to stay in the air longer than an object subject to the normal laws of gravity should stay in the air. I'm sure it's all camera angles, etc.. I don't care. I will always believe that there is just a touch of magic in that shot.

It is also, IMO, the "perfect" sports highlight. Most famous player in the world, in a big moment at the end of a game, and you see him celebrate and his opponent collapse at the end.

The main thing I remember is even after that, the Hawks signed Craig Ehlo to stop MJ. There is a reason that franchise has never won a championship.

[jbergey22]

I found the entire Craig Ehlo guarding Jordan quite funny. I mean who would think Craig Ehlo could guard Michael Jordan. Ron Harper at least could come somewhat close athletically if nothing else.

Jordan seemed to light up the Cavs for 45 plus almost every time they played not even including playoffs.

Watching some older Jordan games on ESPN I had forgotten how smooth he was. His ball handling skills were extremely underrated IMO.

A lot of times when I watch older games I think of how they would do in todays environment and a lot of times it makes me think a bit less of them as a player. When I watch MJ, I feel he would still be the most dominate player on the court today.

[albionmoonlight]

My buddy's take:

"You know, this is the season where LeBron might have led the Lakers to a title, and that would have probably pushed public opinion solidly into the LeBron > Jordan side.

"So can we 100% put it past Michael to have created the Coronavirus to cancel this NBA season and time it so that his documentary comes out instead to remind people that Jordan > LeBron?

"He's that competitive, right?"